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I currently have a Tucson PHEV on 24 hour test and have a few questions for @kezo @JohntheLeg and anyone else who has one.
The car the dealer has given me, whilst brand new, is unfortunately the pre facelift model, so it’s a bit different from what I had researched. They are giving me a facelift one for another 24 hours when I take this one back, but it’s not a PHEV, so my education on PHEVs is right now.
I’ve just been on a decent drive in both EV and Auto (which was mostly EV) and deliberately let the battery run out so that I could then see what it was like on petrol only. All worked fine but I’ve just parked it in the garage with a view to recharging it and the ruddy cable in the car is one that only works in a charging station – not the 3 pin (granny charger) that I expected. This is irritating as tomorrow I wanted to take my wife on our usual ‘local’ journeys on EV mode but now can’t 😡. Two questions;
1) Does the Tucson PHEV come with a charging cable that can be used in a 3 pin plug as standard, or do you have to buy one?
2) There is a third driving mode that I haven’t used yet (Hybrid?), although I think the car may have now been ‘forced’ into it by the battery running out. Is this a mode where the petrol engine charges the battery? If so, if I take it out for a drive tonight (which I intend to do anyway to test the headlights) will I be able to ‘charge’ the battery? Is there a way to do this?
Thanks
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Thanks again for your honest and detailed analysis of PHEV ownership. I was close to going down that route and considered cancelling my Touran order and switching to the Kodiaq PHEV when it appeared in q4. Despite a drive and charging in situ, I’m too far disabled for cables and would be yet another onerous task for my wife. the Touran is delivering 38-44 mpg on non- motorway driving where its cylinder deactivation and coasting features would come into their own. 400 kgs is a hefty PHEV weight penalty of 4 men plus 4 20 kg suitcase as a permanent load. For private buyers, the tax changes starting in April will be a further deterrent and second hand, below the ridiculous £40000 rrp -including options – extra luxury tax, might be the way to go next time. After 53 years of sometimes exciting motors, my aspirations have sadly declined to practical, reliable, utilitarian options. My brother, a car nut, has a BMW 340D touring and a lotus Emira. I can’t get in or out of either!
As @Glos-Guy says it depens on how you use the car. I make one, sometimes two 300 mile plus journeys a month. On the journeys I can average between 34 and 4ompg depending on traffic. However, I do think I could better that, if I adjusted my speed 😂
To counteract that, my daily journeys are typically no more than 50 but mostly within the 35-39 mile electric range. Further to that, I do 100 miles a week purely on electric taking my daughter too and from school each day, therefore I easily balance out the longer journeys I do and was able to average 60+mpg, compared to Glos Guy who is averaging around 48mpg.
If, I was purely doing local driving within the battery range my average economy would be astounding, with only petrol being used to tickover the engine, to provide heat for the cabin.
The Kodiaq would provide slightly better economy on longer journeys, due to the extra electric range but, if your journeys are within the battery range 90% of the time, it would work out twice as economical as the Touran, as would the Tucson or any other PHEV.
@Glos-Guy have you noticed since last update, the car no longer defaults to Auto mode but, EV mode?
@clappedout I would agree with @kezo summary above. For balance, last summer if I did any journeys that were 100% within the EV range of the car, even though I charge on a full price tariff (I don’t have a smart meter / lower nighttime rates etc), they were very cheap.
As an aside, one thing I don’t like about PHEVs is that to properly compare running costs against ICE cars you have to work out a total pence per mile cost, comprising petrol and charging costs. This is because the cars fuel computer assumes that all mileage was driven on petrol, so overstates mpg as it takes no account of charging costs. It’s a bit of a faff, but worth doing to make a fair comparison, as you can then divide this pence per mile into the cost of a gallon of petrol to directly compare against an ICE car. Several forum members in addition to Kezo and myself do this (as do the better online car reviewers – they do the same when comparing public charging costs of EVs against ICE cars).
Anyway, the reason I mention this is that, using this calculation, local journeys made last summer that were 100% within the EV range equated to 80 mpg in an ICE car, something that you would never be able to achieve with a diesel or petrol car. This is where Kezo scores over me with his daily school run. My ‘kids’ are in their 20s and 30s so I don’t have all those local journeys 😂
At the other end of the spectrum, when Kezo and I do long journeys where the petrol engine is doing most of the work (inc recharging the battery), that 80 mpg ICE equivalent drops to high 30s, which is far worse than modern fuel efficient petrol engines, such as the 2.0i BMW that I had before which would be 5-10 mpg better on longer runs.
So, in summary, it all boils down to what someone’s ‘mix’ of local and longer journeys is. Mostly short journeys and a PHEV can save you quite a bit of money – not as much as a full EV would, but better than an ICE car. Mostly longer journeys and it could be a costly mistake. I do a mix of the two and, overall, running costs are a bit lower than they were in the BMW. I’ve worked out that total running costs will around £20 a month less in the PHEV than in my previous petrol car. Personally, that £20 a month saving isn’t enough to offset the faff of having to charge after every use, but I appreciate that for some people it would be. Also, those with a greater proportion of local journeys and / or cheaper electricity costs will make far greater savings than me and, in some cases, substantial savings.
@Glos-Guy have you noticed since last update, the car no longer defaults to Auto mode but, EV mode?
Can’t say I’ve noticed and I thought that recent updates were purely infotainment related, but I will keep an eye on it.
Does the PHEV Tucsom start in ev mode on start up?I know most phevs do and always have some battery % saved even when it says empty,was just wandering when the battery is out of charge and empty does it then revert to petrol on start up ?
Does the PHEV Tucsom start in ev mode on start up?I know most phevs do and always have some battery % saved even when it says empty,was just wandering when the battery is out of charge and empty does it then revert to petrol on start up ?
The battery is never fully empty. When EV range is depleted the battery still has 15% charge, so it will still always start in EV mode even if not re-charged and you will still get some limited EV usage, even prior to the car going in to charge mode (when the petrol engine recharges the battery). However, in this cold weather, although it starts in EV mode, the petrol engine comes on immediately in order to warm the cabin. The engine idles at 1100rpm, even whilst driving, to do this.
Thanks @Glos-Guy
@kezo How are you finding your EV only range during this cold snap? Aside from the fact that the fully charged range of around 38 miles drops to 35 miles within a few hundred yards of leaving the house (as it always has), I’m finding that the stated EV range on the computer is nowhere near achievable.
As an example, I was in London yesterday (by train) and when I got back to the car at the station last night it showed I had 22 miles EV range remaining. The station is 14 miles from my house, yet the EV range was fully depleted when I was still 3 miles from home, so the stated 22 miles actually only lasted 11 miles, and that was with the engine idling almost the journey in order to warm the car.
I know that this is a problem with BEVs in cold weather as well, but when forum members were quoting what their ranges were showing as in cold weather recently, I had assumed that the range stated in the car was allowing for the temperature? Perhaps not, and in reality the actual ranges they were getting were much lower than stated? I guess with a BEV you might not notice it as much, as you would never use the entire range up on a journey so may not be keeping such a close eye on it, whereas with a PHEV you plan journeys to ensure that 100% of the EV range is used, so you are acutely aware of the total EV mileage that you get in reality, rather than what the cars computer says?
I’m getting 31-32 miles based on taking my daughter to school on 30,50,50 mph roads. Charged Wednesday late afternoon and battery ran out about 3 miles from home today. Normally a charge would easily cover 2 days of taking her there and back in warmer weather.
Visited my brother over weekend and thouht I’d fill up rather than waiting till I got home. Car was charged before collecting daughter from school, so left with 5 miles less than full charge but, will base calculation as if full battery for ease.
174 miles driven at cost of £19.80 (£1.359) + £2.70 charge = £22.50
16.55l /4.546 = 3.64 gallons
174 / 3.64 = 47.8mpg
Morning @kezo I have been doing less long journeys since I last filled up with petrol, so the fuel computer is showing 102mpg over the last few hundred miles which, after factoring in charging costs, probably gets me well over 50mpg equivalent (most journeys have been within, or not much over, EV range). However I have a couple of longer trips this week (one circa 100 miles and one circa 60 miles) which will bring that down, but I still reckon I’m in for a half decent figure. I’ll let you know.
@kezo Well my optimism was unfounded. The two longer (but not that long) journeys absolutely killed the mpg again. Obviously the mpg stated in the car is inaccurate, but gives you a guide as to how things are going. The quoted 102mpg (which was over more than 500 miles of mostly shorter journeys) plummeted to 73mpg on the back of the two journeys, even though I started both with a full charge. I filled up with petrol last night and, once factoring in all the charge costs, the mpg equivalent was 44.9 mpg, even though most journeys had been shorter. I had hoped for over 50 mpg. I appreciate that in the warmer months the EV range will increase a little, but I don’t think that the appalling mpg on longer runs when the battery is depleted is going to improve much. All in all, quite disappointing.
Hi, Glos Guy, I’d value your opinion.
Im due to change and have been researching and testing EVs. I’m not overly impressed so far so was thinking of widening my search to include PHEVs.
Do you think the reason for your poor MPG when on your ICE engine, is anything to do with weight of plug in battery? Are these plug in batteries heavy?
Im coming away from electric vehicles partly because weight of battery and big wheels in the 3 vehicles tested, give a bumpy jolting ride.
Also, something like a Tuscon is much easier to get in and out of.
Regards, wonky
@kezo Well my optimism was unfounded. The two longer (but not that long) journeys absolutely killed the mpg again. Obviously the mpg stated in the car is inaccurate, but gives you a guide as to how things are going. The quoted 102mpg (which was over more than 500 miles of mostly shorter journeys) plummeted to 73mpg on the back of the two journeys, even though I started both with a full charge. I filled up with petrol last night and, once factoring in all the charge costs, the mpg equivalent was 44.9 mpg, even though most journeys had been shorter. I had hoped for over 50 mpg. I appreciate that in the warmer months the EV range will increase a little, but I don’t think that the appalling mpg on longer runs when the battery is depleted is going to improve much. All in all, quite disappointing.
I don’t understand, we have near identical cars with similar driving styles and are getting a significant difference in economy.
Locally I’m typically getting 100 miles per 1.09 gallon and 1.2 gallon in winter = 83.3 – 91.7mpg depending on the season. This isn’t far off 1o2mpg quoted by your GOM, so most likely were getting the same up to this point.
Your longer journey’s see you doing a constant spped on a motorway, whic compared to mine on A roads. Whils’t, I can get upto speed of 70mph+vat, it isn’t constantand this is where I think were seeing a massive difference?
The average of my locall running around is 85mpg + 47.8mpg (previous post) gives me an average for the week, I do a long journey of 65.4mpg.
@Wonky the battery in the Tucson PHEV is 13.8kWh but can be as high as 22kWh in some PHEV’s, whils’t not light, there much lighter than seen in a EV’s with a 65kWh+ batteries.Hi @wonky Yes, the poor mpg when the electric range is used up is mostly down to the fact that the modest petrol engine is then lugging around a very heavy car (due to the battery). Other PHEVs may be different, but with the Tucson the car defaults into hybrid mode when the battery is depleted. This mode is very fuel inefficient as, in addition to the above problem, the petrol engine (which is only 1.6 litres) is also using additional petrol to recharge the battery, in addition to propelling the car. In the Tucson, this mode can return as little as 20 mpg. However, that’s not the whole picture, as you can then deploy the additional electric range that has been generated, but that still only equates to around mid 30s mpg overall.
Ride quality wise the Tucson PHEV is fine. It’s not as compliant a ride as the BMW X1 XLine that we had before, but certainly not an issue. We have 19” alloys. There are, however, several aspects of PHEV ownership that I’m not keen on;
1) In the Tucson PHEV, there is no option when the battery is depleted to make it drive in petrol mode only, without recharging the battery as well. I’d like that option. As it doesn’t exist, I have to keep an eye on how much battery range is building up on my return journey and, when that range equals my remaining distance to home, I have to switch the car into EV mode. This is essential, as the trick is not to arrive home with unused electric range if the petrol engine has been used, given how much cheaper electric miles are than petrol miles in hybrid mode are. This is not something that you ever have to consider with an ICE car or an EV.
2) Unlike ICE cars or EVs, which give you an accurate mpg or electric usage figure, the fuel computers in PHEVs (well, at least on the Tucson) assume that all mileage driven has been using the petrol engine only, so you get wildly overstated 3 figure mpg figures. This, of course, takes no account of the cost of all the electric charges (of which there are many, as you must recharge a PHEV after every single use for it to make any sense financially). Consequently you have to work it out manually. What a number of us on this forum who have PHEVs do, is add together the cost of petrol (when we refuel) to the cumulative cost of all electric recharges since the last petrol refuel. You can then divide that total cost by the total mileage driven to get a pence per mile. In order to compare that to an ICE car, you can then divide that pence per mile figure into the cost of a gallon of petrol (litre price x 4.546) to get an mpg figure that directly compares to the cost of running an ICE car. As this all has to be done manually, it’s a faff that you don’t have with an ICE car where you just look at the mpg on the cars fuel computer!
3) As mentioned above, you absolutely must recharge a PHEV when you get home after every journey, otherwise you won’t make the savings. This is obviously something that you don’t have to do at all with an ICE car and you don’t have to do it after every single journey with a BEV.
In addition to the above factors, whether or not a PHEV works for you entirely depends on how you use a car. First and foremost, you must be able to charge easily at home, as you have to charge it every time you get home without exception, or it doesn’t make sense. You don’t need a charger, just access to a normal 3-pin plug. The Tucson takes about 6.5 hours to fully charge a depleted battery (as long as the charge speed is cranked up from the default setting, which you can easily do on the control box built into the charger cable.
Secondly, as to whether it’s cost effective depends very much on what proportion of your mileage can be achieved in EV mode. Using the calculation explained earlier, mileage in EV only mode equates to around 80 mpg, so is very cheap (and that’s at my standard electricity prices – anyone with a cheap off peak rate it will work out a lot better than that). As a ball park, if well over half your total mileage can be achieved in EV mode, then a PHEV can give you cheap motoring. However, if you frequently do journeys that are beyond the EV only range, then those savings start to erode. In my case, I’m only saving £10-20 a month in total running costs compared to our previous BMW petrol car. In truth, that’s not a big enough saving to convince me that the hassle factors are worth it. However, your usage may be very different to mine, so it may work out better for you, or worse!
In summary, we didn’t want a BEV as the real world ranges aren’t enough for us yet and charging away from home on longer journeys or holidays is not something that we are prepared to do. However, as the choice of decent petrol SUVs through Motability is woeful, we thought we’d give a PHEV a go. As it hasn’t been a roaring success, next time I think we will either bite the bullet and get a full EV (BEV) as our longer trips are starting to lessen as my wife’s condition worsens, or we’ll leave the scheme and buy a used petrol SUV (a better car than available through Motability, such as a BMW X5. Hope that helps.
@kezo I think that our usage is very different. As I understand it, you are doing a school run most weekdays that is within the EV range. By contrast, I only have one journey a week that is entirely within the EV range and, in fact, in the winter the reduced EV range leaves me about 5 miles short. Almost all my other journeys are beyond the EV range although, thankfully, they aren’t that frequent (one or two a week).
Also, whilst I don’t drive with a heavy right foot these days, I do a lot of motorway miles and usually have cruise control on at between 70 and 79 mph. My sense is that this sort of speed doesn’t help the fuel economy, but I’m not going to pootle along at 56 mph just to save a few quid or worry about range.
I think our problem is that up until last year I was taking my wife out 2 or 3 days a week, and those journeys would all have been within the EV range. Her condition has deteriorated since then and she now only really wants to go out once or twice (max) a week, hence why the shorter journeys have become a lesser proportion of the cars usage.
Hi Glos Guy, many thanks for taking time to give a very thorough answer, it’s much appreciated.
I don’t think I’ll bother looking at any plug ins. Whilst most of my journeys are local and less than 30 miles, I do 2 or 3 longer 100 mile trips a month in summer.
I’m in a hybrid Kia Niro at present with a 1.6 petrol engine. Worst mpg in winter around town is 50 and 60 in summer. 5 to 10 mpg more on a run.I would get another Niro , EV or Hybrid but I’m finding it difficult getting in and out now , so wanted something bigger.
As we’re being pushed towards EVs on Motability, that’s why Ive tested, Enyaq, Ioniq5 and VW id4. Ive found them all clunky and jolting over bumps because of battery weight and stiff suspension.I previously had , Alhambra, Sharan vehicles, with poorish mpg but comfort.
Ive exhausted my search on Motability so am unsure what I will do.
Thanks again, Regards, wonky
Hi wonky,
same drivetrain as your Niro available in the hybrid Sportage – facelift imminent- or Tucson? MHEV or full hybrid. I was tempted, but went back to a Touran for better or worse. Match is well equipped, but top trim Koreans trump it. Comfortable, refined and easy access, you sacrifice fuel costs against lighter ICE weight benefits such as comfort. For the same AP, had it been available, would have gone for the MHEV eTSI Kodiaq, a good replacement for my Allspace.
Getting in and out is a requirement that increasingly limits car choice and only gets worse in my case, sadly.
@wonky No problem. Happy to help. A self charging hybrid may be your answer? However, I had a Tucson self charging hybrid for a full 24 hours and wasn’t overly impressed with it. The mpg was no better than the petrol BMW that I was driving at the time (although the BMW was surprisingly economical). In fact, the Tucson was slightly worse over a journey that I do weekly, so I couldn’t see the point of it. I don’t have any other experience of self charging hybrids, but my understanding is that Toyota are better at it than most. A RAV4 could have been a consideration for us (as my wife owned one privately from new for 10 years and loved it) but they are very out of date now compared to their peers and the infotainment systems are woeful. I read yesterday that a new RAV4 is about to be revealed. If they address these issues, that could be one to look at and might be worth waiting for?
Hi Glos Guy, many thanks for taking time to give a very thorough answer, it’s much appreciated. I don’t think I’ll bother looking at any plug ins. Whilst most of my journeys are local and less than 30 miles, I do 2 or 3 longer 100 mile trips a month in summer. I’m in a hybrid Kia Niro at present with a 1.6 petrol engine. Worst mpg in winter around town is 50 and 60 in summer. 5 to 10 mpg more on a run. I would get another Niro , EV or Hybrid but I’m finding it difficult getting in and out now , so wanted something bigger. As we’re being pushed towards EVs on Motability, that’s why Ive tested, Enyaq, Ioniq5 and VW id4. Ive found them all clunky and jolting over bumps because of battery weight and stiff suspension. I previously had , Alhambra, Sharan vehicles, with poorish mpg but comfort. Ive exhausted my search on Motability so am unsure what I will do. Thanks again, Regards, wonky
The Tucson PHEV is available in 2wd and will return better economy than the traditional 4wd version we have. My long term average is hovering around 60ishmpg, which comprises monthly of around 400 miles locally within battery range during schoolterm, 340 – 375mile journey every three weeks depending on family I’m visiting and trips out during summer months. Which breaks down since ownership as an average of 85mpg locally and 44mpg on longer trips.
Try an EV with softer suspension 🙂
Hi Kezo, thanks for your input.
Finding a largish EV with softer suspension isn’t easy . That’s why I started looking at plug ins but reports on here about mpg have put me off, although your mpg isn’t too bad.Plug ins are a very high ap compared to EVs, so if mpg was bad as well would be an extra blow.
Regards, wonky
@kezo Interesting to see how your mileage breaks down and that completely explains why we are getting different results.
You are doing 400 miles of local journeys a month which are all within the EV range. My monthly journeys that are 100% within EV range are less than half of that.
Our longer journey mileage is probably similar, but yours is one very long journey every 3 weeks, whereas mine is a 60-100 mile journey weekly.
I think that, extremes aside, we are probably getting similar mpg equivalent on the local journeys and I am getting slightly less than you on the longer runs as my average speed is higher (due to motorways).
Our respective experiences in the same car proves that the decision on whether a PHEV is right for someone heavily depends on what proportion of their total mileage is going to be within the EV only range, as EV mileage works out very cheap, but on longer journeys when the battery is depleted there is no advantage over a fuel efficient ICE car. I stress that I am still making a very small saving (up to £20 a month) over the BMW, but I’d personally sacrifice that £20 not to have to plug the car in after every use!
Hi Kezo, thanks for your input. Finding a largish EV with softer suspension isn’t easy . That’s why I started looking at plug ins but reports on here about mpg have put me off, although your mpg isn’t too bad. Plug ins are a very high ap compared to EVs, so if mpg was bad as well would be an extra blow. Regards, wonky
The high AP’s make them not worth it imo, because they still cost you money to run ontop making, a cheaper ICE more appealing, even with putting petrol in, you’d still have change left, compared to the high AP and running of a PHEV. As with EV’s Hyybrids don’t like motorways as they can’t regenerate and are more economical around town.
Renault Scenic/ Citreon eC3 worth trying as EV’s
Nissan Qashqai e-power, Renault Austral are worth a look as hybrids, as they are capable of upto 60mpg and bigger than the Niro. The Qashqai e-power runs like an ev but, has a small engine to act as a generator. It works different to most hybrids 🙂
Our respective experiences in the same car proves that the decision on whether a PHEV is right for someone heavily depends on what proportion of their total mileage is going to be within the EV only range, as EV mileage works out very cheap, but on longer journeys when the battery is depleted there is no advantage over a fuel efficient ICE car. I stress that I am still making a very small saving (up to £20 a month) over the BMW, but I’d personally sacrifice that £20 not to have to plug the car in after every use!
I wouldn’t have another, whils’t I’m getting slightly better overall than you, I was expecting more if I’m honest and more like 75-80mpg longterm average.
For the AP we paid baring in mind they are more expensive now, I could have had a Nissan Qashqai e-power and got similar to what I’m getting now but with change in my pocket!
I had no idea @kezo that ours had gone up by £2k to £4,999. That £2,999 AP didn’t last long then? Must have been a short term incentive from Hyundai (or they just did it to wind us up, as we had recently paid £4,599 😂). Odd timing though, as the facelift had not long come out when they slashed the AP.
Although our respective usage is very different, it’s interesting that we’ve both landed in the same place after 7 months of PHEV ownership. Like you, I’m not convinced that I’d get another. I suppose that we should have kept in mind that PHEVs were primarily designed with company car drivers in mind, as a benefit in kind taxation dodge, and those drivers aren’t worried about the running costs as their fuel is paid for and most company car PHEV drivers never charge them!
Unfortunately, if I buy a used X5 the PHEV one seems to be the one that is in most frequent supply now. The 30d diesel X5 gets brilliant reviews, but I don’t think that my frequency of driving makes a diesel a wise choice now, and the petrol only X5s drink like fish – although I only do about 8,000 miles a year now, so that won’t matter as much. I’d be tempted to consider an X5M but the servicing and maintenance costs (tyres etc) would worry me 😱. The other options would be an X3 (the old shape, I don’t like the new one) or a Porsche (Macan or Cayenne). Thankfully I don’t have to worry about that for some time!
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