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I currently have a Tucson PHEV on 24 hour test and have a few questions for @kezo @JohntheLeg and anyone else who has one.
The car the dealer has given me, whilst brand new, is unfortunately the pre facelift model, so it’s a bit different from what I had researched. They are giving me a facelift one for another 24 hours when I take this one back, but it’s not a PHEV, so my education on PHEVs is right now.
I’ve just been on a decent drive in both EV and Auto (which was mostly EV) and deliberately let the battery run out so that I could then see what it was like on petrol only. All worked fine but I’ve just parked it in the garage with a view to recharging it and the ruddy cable in the car is one that only works in a charging station – not the 3 pin (granny charger) that I expected. This is irritating as tomorrow I wanted to take my wife on our usual ‘local’ journeys on EV mode but now can’t 😡. Two questions;
1) Does the Tucson PHEV come with a charging cable that can be used in a 3 pin plug as standard, or do you have to buy one?
2) There is a third driving mode that I haven’t used yet (Hybrid?), although I think the car may have now been ‘forced’ into it by the battery running out. Is this a mode where the petrol engine charges the battery? If so, if I take it out for a drive tonight (which I intend to do anyway to test the headlights) will I be able to ‘charge’ the battery? Is there a way to do this?
Thanks
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Morning @Glos-Guy
A little slow updating but, on Friday 14th March I travelled to my mums, as I had my grandaughters christening on the Sunday. To keep the story short, I filled up with fuel after running about Saturday and charged overnight, ready to attend the christening and make my way home on Sunday and subsequently top up again on the Monday morning once home.
The route home after attended the christening some 27 miles away, was to jump on the M6 at j16 and down th the M5 J8 turn off and then get off the M5 at J8 and join the M50 down to Ross, Monmouthshire and subsequently work my way home from there. A total journey of 226 miles.
I chose to use HDA (Normally like to be control of my own destiny!) and set a max speed of 83mph, adjusted during average speed zones and turned off in slower area’s.
Charging the car cost my mum £0.84 based on 12kW at £0.07kWh.
Refilling on the Monday cost £29.60 @ £1.315l (4.95 gallons)
Adjusted = 5.09 gallons
226 miles / 5.09 gallons = 44mpg
(The figure can be adjusted to my tariff @22p kWh)
Points to note:
1) the GOM showed 32mpg for the journey
2) the battery only ever charged to 25% max before going into electric mode and at no time charged back up to 100%
Hi @kezo
I’m abroad on holiday at present so won’t be driving the car again for another week. I’m due to fill up with petrol when we get home, so will work out my latest mpg equivalent then although, in a way, I feel like I might as well give up on it.
4,500 miles in and I think I’m already convinced that, due to my mixed use driving, the saving in running costs isn’t sufficient to offset the faff of having to recharge the car after each use. Maybe if things improve a lot this summer I might start feeling more positive about it.
As an aside, I had a look on the app (which still is cr*p, showing EV range in km) to see where the valet parking company had parked the car and on the journey to their secure compound the car had reached 62mph. I’m pretty sure that the max speed limit on those roads is 40mph and there are speed cameras. I’d hope they’d know where they are as they’re doing that run continuously, but ……
On that note, be careful with your 83mph. I live in Gloucestershire and, like many Police force areas, the tolerance level for speeding triggers at the speed limit + 10% + 2mph, so 79mph and above and you are in speeding ticket territory. They like speed camera vans in these parts, including on bridges that pass over motorways. They also have a new style camera van that can get you from so far away that they’ve nabbed you before you even see it!
@Glos-Guy enjoy you holiday!
Thanks for all the reports on the Tucson PHEV @Kezo and @Glos-Guy, it’s very informative for me as I can choose next car from mid-June and Sportage PHEV is looking to be the best value.
Firstly, my very belated condolences to @Kezo
I already have the MHEV Sportage GTLS and have been very disappointed with its long term mpg and frequent PPF issues. In fact I’ve just cleared the PPF today.
My other choices are the Volvo V60. It would be the most Premium car I’ve ever owned, but think it’s more of a heart over head choice as the mpg will likely be as bad as my Sportage. I’m also now very worried about any ICE/MHEV cars having PPF issues with our frequent short journeys.
Ford Explorer. Realistically, we would be considered ideal people for an EV with our short journeys, but I’d rather stick with ice, but not ruling ev out completely.
The PHEV versions of Cupra Formentor and Terramar are another option, but the AP is much more than the Sportage PHEV (with similar spec).
Ideally, I’d like a BMW M340i Touring with packs that include electric memory seats and adaptive cruise as a minimum. I’d be happy to trade off poor mpg for an engaging drive. I don’t think there is anything on Motability that offers an engaging drive with memory seats and adaptive cruise. Obviously I’m not meaning a M340i, but even
I’ve got a few questions about the Tucson PHEV, as I’d imagine the answers would be the same in regard to the Sportage. I’ll start with one area as I’ve already waffled on too much already –
My main concern is how often EV mode will require the engine being on. I know it needs to fast idle when using heater. I’m also thinking that the engine will kick in when having to go up steep hills. With most journeys being a 3 mile trip up hill, will I actually be saving much fuel even in EV mode? (obviously the return trip would be down hill, but heater will still be required).
As the above scenario is the main cause of the frequent clogged PPF, I’d like to know if the PHEV has a PPF? (I’ve struggled to get a consistent answer)
Hi @gilders Glad to hear that you’ve found the thread to be useful. It’s certainly been a learning curve and even though @kezo and myself have different driving patterns, it’s interesting that we both seem to be in the same place, in that we aren’t sure whether we’d get another PHEV. Both of us are disappointed with the mpg when the battery is depleted and personally I’d sacrifice the £20 a month that I’m saving versus my last petrol car in order not to have the faff of charging it after every time that I use it. I’d rather go back to one quick 5 minute visit to a petrol station every 3 weeks or so and then that’s it – never touch it other than to drive it!
Given your comments about the engaging drive of BMWs, I must also say that I am missing my last BMW for that exact reason. There is no doubting that the Tucson Ultimate has virtually everything you need and more (kit wise) and much of the tech works as well as BMW systems and certainly far better than the systems that we had on previous VWs, but it is not an engaging drive – at all. I would describe it as a very good car for people who aren’t in to cars, whereas BMWs are very much drivers cars.
To address your two questions, I have zero knowledge about PPF issues but @kezo will, so I’ll leave that to him. I can answer the other question though. Basically, don’t worry about the engine idling when the heater is on. It’s not a fast idle, it’s only 1100 rpm and other than when it kicks in at start up (on cold days) you don’t notice it. Unlike when the battery is depleted (when mpg plummets), the idling engine doesn’t seem to affect mpg. Obviously it must to some degree, but not enough to be noticeable. As for going up hills, it’s very accelerator dependent on whether or not the engine kicks in. If you are using a light throttle, it will go up even fairly steep hills in EV only. If you accelerate up the hill the engine is likely to kick in. The good news is that the switch from EV to petrol is virtually imperceptible and very impressive. There are no lurches and you don’t even hear the engine kick in when driving, unless you are giving it some beans. The engine is quiet and refined up to 2,500 rpm but whereas a BMW sounds great at higher revs, the Hyundai doesn’t! Hope that helps. Happy to answer any other questions.
Hi @Gilders I liveat the top of a valley with a steep road climbing up to it, which I can easily climb at 40mph in EV mode. When you run the heater, the engine as you mentioned runs at fast idle however, you are predominately running in EV mode with the engine cutting in and out to keep the cabin up to temperature when needed and fuel usage imo is quite a bit less than if used to drive the car. As @Glos-Guy mentioned its throttle dependant when the engine kicks in, which you get to know but, its roughly a quarter in power range on the eco meter thingy. The car will do approx 85mph in EV mode, as long as your not harsh on the go go pedal.
I missed going see my mum this month and done close to 500 miles without using petrol taking daughter to and from school and local days out including the beach during half term, so if the majority of your journey’s are local within battery range or under 5o miles, you will use very little petrol, as long as you charge it.
Once a month, I normally go visit my mum some 350 miles round trip, the best mpg I’ve ever got was on the previous page, which I believe was 48mpg on the return journey and my average doing this trip since having the car is 42mpg. I’m far from a slow driver but, like my previous Tucson ICE, I find the engine loosens up at around 7,500 giving slightly better mpg.
There is a stark difference between Glos-Guy ‘s journey and mine, due to the amount of miles I do locall, which offsets my longer journeys more.
EV range, I get around 35 around town due to the need to climb the mountain on my way home. If the weather conditions are right, I may get a bit more. My best from memory (early part of topic) is 42 miles. The Sportage is more stremline and I think Kia quotes 44 miles, where has Hyundai quote 38 miles.
There are some slight differences between the facelifted Tucson and the Sportage, which I believe is due a facelift fr 26MY however yu can check the specs n Kia website. The Tucson 253bhp (Sportage 265bhp) and the Tucson 72kW electric motor (Sportage 69kW electric motor), although driving back to back, you won’t tell the difference. Incidently the ICE/MHEV have increase 10bhp to 160bhp across the board.
PPF wise, the hybrid and PHEV don’t suffer to the same extent and not encountered a problem since owning the PHEV.
My biggest regret currently is, I wish it had more EV range, especially when the MG HS PHEV is quoted at 70+ miles, which would make a big difference. Would I have another PHEv, well the board is still out on that one but, Ill take it over an EV for its extended range!
@kezo Interesting that you mention the engine running at fast idle when heating the car. I reckon that the fan speed must influence that. I found the sound of the fan to be obtrusive in the Tucson (and a bit draughty) so I have mine set right down to the lowest setting (which isn’t audible). That generally causes the engine just to idle at a pretty much silent 1100 rpm when heating the car very gently. I guess that if the fan is cranked up the need to warm quicker is recognised and the engine may idle at higher rpm? Just a guess, but as mentioned I don’t hear the engine at 1100rpm when I’m driving.
Like you, I’ve had a decent period of lots of short journeys and no long journeys, so my petrol usage has been negligible and my mpg equivalent will have been quite high (it’s showing something like 170 mpg, but I haven’t worked out what it really is as I haven’t needed to put petrol in). I’ve also noticed a marked improvement in the EV range since the warmer weather has arrived. We have three holidays over the next three months that will unfortunately hammer the mpg but, as you say, if you only do short journeys and charge after every time that you use it then it can be very economical.
Re your comment about the engine loosening up at 7,500 miles, with our cars being PHEVs and the engine only running for a proportion of the time, do you think that we might not see that until a much higher mileage?
@Glos-Guy When first firing of the engine in winter to heat the cabin, it can tickover at 1400rpm unless I give a quick blip of the peda, like an auto choke on first start, it then settles at 1100rpm to provide heat regardless of fan speed. I run on auto 1 fanspeed 1 or 2 and preheat the car prior to going out in winter, to help with Raynauds.
It’s widely noted on forums the engines starts to loosen up between 7.5 – 10k miles on the 1.6tdgi engine across the range.
As in my previous comment, I wish it had more EV range (a) it would help with overall economy and (b) you wouldn’t always have the need to charge the dam every day. Hyundai made a mistake here when facelifting the car and tweaking the engines but, left the battery size untouched.
Thanks @kezo I guess my question was because it may take 15-20,000 miles in a PHEV for the petrol engine to have had as much use as would be the case in a standard petrol one so, logically, I would have thought it would take a lot longer for it to ‘loosen up’, but mechanics is not my thing 😂
@Glos-Guy what tyre pressures are you running?
The overall consensus is 38psi, which I run.
@Glos-Guy what tyre pressures are you running? The overall consensus is 38psi, which I run.
I can’t remember if it’s 35 or 38 😂 I’ll try to remember to take a look when I drive it tomorrow.
Thanks for the replies. It seems that the heater shouldn’t burn through too much fuel, which is good.
My wife isn’t a very economical driver, not that she speeds, but tends to always be accelerating or braking, rather than judging and predicting what might happen ahead. I think the only way I’ll be able to tell if the engine will kick in in EV mode while going up hills, is to see if I could have an extended test drive.A couple more questions –
1. Does air-con (cooling) work without engine idling?
2. Can I use a smart plug to set charging times, or is it simply done via the vehicles App (read that Kezo was having issues with the App charging schedules).
3. Is there anytime that charging away from home would be beneficial (i.e. a maximum pence/kW)?
4. Am I correct in thinking that longer charging cables results in some “loss” of power, resulting in paying for more kWs than what’s actually going in to the car? If so, do you have any idea/formula of how much per metre? (don’t spend much time on this question – I’m just being lazy and not Googled it yet).
1) Not always. The engine kicks in when the gap between actual and desired temperature is great and the car needs to bridge that gap. As with heating, the impact on fuel economy is negligible, unlike when the petrol engine is driving the car!
2) I don’t see any reason why not but @kezo will advise. I never use the app. I just pop it on charge every time I get home, but I don’t have a cheap night tariff so charging any time makes no difference to cost.
3) In all honesty, charging away from home is utterly pointless (unless overnight at another residential property). Two reasons. Firstly you will pay more for the few miles that you’d gain than it would cost to drive those miles on petrol. Secondly, PHEVs charge at a very slow rate (mine takes about 6.5 hours to get 38 miles) so even a few hours will get you less than 10 miles EV range. It’s just not worth it and not cost effective either.
4) I’ve no idea but thankfully @kezo will.
Braking is regenerative and will go a bit to charging the battery. There are also flappy paddles behind the steering wheel, that set certain levels of regenerative braking when you take your foot off the go peddle.
You can change the eco meter to rev counter in the settings. It’s highly unlikely the engine will come on if battery % is sufficient during a hill climb.
1) As GG but, less often than when heating.
2) Any smart plug will have to handle a sustained 10A over a prolonged period and you’d have to pay particular attention the plug inc smart plug and socket doesn’t run hot initially. The app allows you to set charging times.
3) There is a maimum of 7.2kW charging, which will take about 2hrs. Unless you are anywhere you can plug in for free or at current electricity rates, I wouldn’t bother.
4) Voltage drop is a reduction of voltage at the end of a circuit and does not amount to using more electricity, as electricity is measured in kWh not voltage (for ease of understanding).
10A granny charger are typically 1.5mm 3 core H07 variety rubber cable which is highly flexible. Each conductor has a cross sectional area of 1.5mm2, in open air layed across the floor it can carry more than double the 10 Amps you are charging at, therefore VD is unlikey to be a problem.
@kezo I was running at 35 psi so I’ve just upped the tyres to 38 psi. I have a few long journeys over the next few weeks, so it will be interesting to see if mpg is any better than previous long journeys.
On the subject of mpg I haven’t had any long journeys for a while so most mileage has been in EV mode. The computer was saying 212 mpg which is obviously nonsense but having just filled up with (all of £12 worth) petrol and factoring in all my charging costs, the true mpg equivalent is 64 mpg over the last 442 miles, which I’m very pleased with. I shall top up after the two long journeys and doubtless it will be a very different story, but let’s see if the tyre pressures help!
I find maufacturers have gone lazy and use one tyre pressure across the board regardless of tyre size or differences in vehicle weight across the same models. It never use to be like that! In Hyundai Tucson terms this translates to tyre sizes 215/65/17, 235/55/18 & 235/50/19 all having the same tyre pressure of 35psi across various tyres aizes with different volumes. The other difference is there is nearly 400kg weight difference between the standard ICE and PHEV.
The Michelin Primarcy 4 tyre has a maximum inflation rate of 50psi, so there’s plenty of room for expansion when the tyres get warm at 38psi. Michelin also recommends a tyre pressure of 2.4 bar for highway use (39.8psi), so the general concensous is to run them at 38psi.
What that translates to in economy wise I don’t know but, Ive run mine at 38 since having it and I’m generally happy with those setting across the board.
@kezo On an unrelated matter (the ruddy bings and bongs), I know that we both ‘mute’ the annoying four bings every time that the car goes even 1 mph over the speed limit every time that we start the car, but you mentioned previously that some of the other bings and bongs can be muted permanently, rather than every ruddy time that I drive? Which ones are they and how do I do it? I get bings and bongs for things that I have absolutely no idea what they are for (deviating from the planned sat nav route I know is one of them, but there are several others 😡
I turn lane keep and speed limit off on the sterring wheel, as I’m pulling out the drive. Ive also turned forward crash detection to warn only – it still screams at you but, doesn’t slam the brakes on when the car sees a shadow. Also the welcome & ign off sound has been disabled and also the take a break bong. I’ll have to check what other settings Ive done 🙂
@kezo I did a 240 mile round trip with the tyres inflated to 38 PSi as you suggested. Unfortunately it didn’t seem to help the mpg. Allowing for the cost of the full charge that I started with, I averaged just 38mpg. For most of the journey I was on motorway and A roads at around 73mph. My previous petrol BMW would have easily achieved 45mpg on that journey.
Over the next few months we have two short breaks where I will be doing circa 400-600 miles, each with just a charge to start and the vast majority of the mileage being in HEV mode which, as we know, is fuel inefficient, so I dread to think what they will turn out like. Probably low 30s. After that I think I’m going to stop working out the real running costs as it keeps reminding me that, for us, a PHEV was a poor choice 😂
@GlosGuy
Ive only ever calculated local and distance journeys, as two seperate entities and always fill the tank before a long journey. If necessary, I can combine for a running average.
On distance journey’s, I always try to ensure Auto mode is selected, as mine no longer defaults to Auto mode on startup, instead EV mode.
Once the battery is depleted, does yours still recharge the battery back to 100%? Mine has never done that regardless whether onbard Nav ior the cars drive assist is used or not, rather it only charges to 25% before doing a short few miles in electric again.
My last journey netted around 48mpg over 180 miles, at a circa 10mph higher speed than you. I understand my calculated overall average mpg will be higher, due to my local mileage but, considering, I fill up before a journey, which resets the cars computer we should be getting similar on longer distance journeys. I just don’t get it mate!
Morning @kezo
I guess that there’s a chance that we may be calculating our ‘mpg equivalent’ figures differently (it still bugs me that you can’t just use the figure on the fuel computer, unlike an ICE car, unless you never charge it), but I think that the main reason is that our usage is entirely different. The shortest journey that I ever make is around a 30 mile round trip, and that’s only around once or twice a week.
I calculate the mpg equivalent (petrol plus all charge costs) every single time that I fill up with petrol, rather than on an ad hoc basis, so the results vary considerably depending on the mix of driving. On the last long journey I started with a full tank and full charge and filled up again at the end, hence I know that the 38mpg equivalent is spot on as it was calculated rather than using the overstated figure on the fuel computer (which was something like 52 mpg). Like you, I put it in to Auto mode on longer journeys and the Sat Nav is always used.
The car does not recharge to 100% now but does as yours does – generates some miles and then deploys them. When it did that before it was when the car was new and I was playing around with the various settings. It may be that I put it into HEV mode even when the battery still had some charge, whereas when the car itself decides to go into HEV mode (when the battery is depleted) it doesn’t do that?
I’m going to work out the true mpg equivalent figures on our two short breaks and then I’m done with it. From that point on I’ll do what most PHEV drivers do and kid myself that the mpg stated in the car is correct, as all my charges are free 🤔
Thankfully I never choose a car based on running costs, but I was determined to establish whether or not a PHEV suits our driving pattern and I think the honest answer is that it doesn’t! I expected that there would be a substantial saving in petrol costs that would offset the faff of having to charge it after every use, but that hasn’t been the case. I fully appreciate though that for many people who do lots more shorter journeys the savings can be meaningful.
I should take a leaf out of my late Uncle’s book. He died too young at 78, but when I last saw him (6 months before) he roared up in his Porsche Macan GTS with Porsche sports exhaust (sounded phenomenal) and he told me that his neighbour had recoiled in horror and asked him what mpg he got out of it. “I don’t have a clue and I don’t care” was his reply! His daughter looked at the computer and told him it was 23 mpg 😂
Still deciding on what to order next month. This thread has been helpful in what to expect in the sister PHEV (Sportage) that I probably will be ordering. But, reading through Sportage forums, they only mention using HEV and EV modes, seems like they don’t seem to use Auto.
Frustrating that the only car that seems to tick all the boxes is the Sportage. But it’s the first time I feel deflated, rather than excited, when choosing my next car. I’m tempted to wait and see what next quarter brings, but I fear that it will still be the Sportage and with it’s current “low” AP of £2,799, I expect it to rise.
My preferred choice would be the Volvo V60, but my wife isn’t confident in parking and manoeuvring in small areas. Plus mpg will be very poor on short trips, which is 85% of our journeys.
Still deciding on what to order next month. This thread has been helpful in what to expect in the sister PHEV (Sportage) that I probably will be ordering. But, reading through Sportage forums, they only mention using HEV and EV modes, seems like they don’t seem to use Auto. Frustrating that the only car that seems to tick all the boxes is the Sportage. But it’s the first time I feel deflated, rather than excited, when choosing my next car. I’m tempted to wait and see what next quarter brings, but I fear that it will still be the Sportage and with it’s current “low” AP of £2,799, I expect it to rise. My preferred choice would be the Volvo V60, but my wife isn’t confident in parking and manoeuvring in small areas. Plus mpg will be very poor on short trips, which is 85% of our journeys.
If 85% of your journeys are short ones (I.e. within the EV range) then a PHEV should work out well for you (financially), as long as you can charge at home and don’t mind having to do so after every time that you use the car
Still deciding on what to order next month. This thread has been helpful in what to expect in the sister PHEV (Sportage) that I probably will be ordering. But, reading through Sportage forums, they only mention using HEV and EV modes, seems like they don’t seem to use Auto. Frustrating that the only car that seems to tick all the boxes is the Sportage. But it’s the first time I feel deflated, rather than excited, when choosing my next car. I’m tempted to wait and see what next quarter brings, but I fear that it will still be the Sportage and with it’s current “low” AP of £2,799, I expect it to rise. My preferred choice would be the Volvo V60, but my wife isn’t confident in parking and manoeuvring in small areas. Plus mpg will be very poor on short trips, which is 85% of our journeys.
May I suggest a Toyota CH-R or Prius both PHEV, our neighbour has the CH-R PHEV easy 45 miles plus in EV mode and north of 50 mpg in HEV with the battery depleted.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
I calculate the mpg equivalent (petrol plus all charge costs) every single time that I fill up with petrol, rather than on an ad hoc basis, so the results vary considerably depending on the mix of driving. On the last long journey I started with a full tank and full charge and filled up again at the end, hence I know that the 38mpg equivalent is spot on as it was calculated rather than using the overstated figure on the fuel computer (which was something like 52 mpg). Like you, I put it in to Auto mode on longer journeys and the Sat Nav is always used.
During the first months of having the car, I’d fill up when needed, as you would a normal ICE car however, I found that skewered what the car was capable of on longer journeys, as for 3 weeks of a month, I’m driving main on or just out of EV range. I still fill up once a month or when I visit family but, seperate short/long distance which can be combined for a monthly average in my spreadsheet. More recently, I have filled up on the way home, from visiting family, giving me not only indivividuality of journeys but, also a monthly rolling average within a spreadsheet, which is easy once setup, as you only enter numbers and it calculates automatically, therefore, I will keep doing it. My rolling average since owning the car is 71.8mpg
The spreadsheet calculation is based on what we have been using since owning car and the calculation @Oscarmax also uses.
I see some people deduct the EV range from the distance travelled and then calculate the petrol mpg, as you would with ICE, especially if its only costing a £1 on those super cheap tariffs. That said, there are many ways, I guess you can calculate but, the Tucson misses a trick by only giving mpg and not a seperate kWh used, as many PHEV’s have in addition.
Mine goes for it’s 1st service beggining next month.
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