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I’m not entirely convinced. There will be a reduction in demand, the country is in recession so most people won’t be looking to invest in high value assets unless they are super confident they have job security. Companies, likewise, will delay fleet updates unless there’s a great deal to be made as costs are controlled.
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I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
I visited my local dealership today, which has both Skoda and VW shops within even my walking distance. The skoda is very comfortable to sit in and easy to get in, although I had to have the seat all the way back (although that saves the needs for power seats if it’s jammed as far back as it goes). The boot is vast, it’s a proper estate car on stilts but the electric works does reduce the depth of that boot. Back seats are plentiful, I could sit in the rear seat behind the front seat I jammed back with ease, although my knee would complain if I had to sit like that for long (which it would in any car).
I sat in a Suite design, which is the one the dealer thinks is going to be most likely to get heated seats into without spending a fortune.
The salesman was hugely helpful, and I mean HUGELY!!! He was instantly onto the fact that heated seats would be essential for anyone with a back issue and understood the reasoning behind powered seats for disabled customers, probably more so than Motability. He also sits on the mindset that Motability customers are gold, if they’re treated right, they do tend to very easily become either brand or dealership loyal and are good for decades of return business. Unlike many, he was very happy to discuss everything and anything I wanted regardless of how far in advance I was looking, afterall, it’ll be months before orders become cars. On the subject of which, the Enyaq is now advertised with a 12 week availability as Skoda have prioritised them, that also explains why they’re on scheme now.
Everything I poked, prodded, switched or played with did what I’d expect in around the time/style you’d want. The infotainment wasn’t overly laggy, despite what every review said, although coming from a Chinese car, that might just be a comparison to the awful systems in the Mk1 ZS.
The ID5 was incredibly comfortable, although they only had the superior GTX available to sit in as the Style was being used by staff who weren’t in today. They’re more than happy for me to pop in and see if it makes a huge difference at any time. Systems were equally competent but plastics felt cheaper. Seats were heated as standard in the ID5, although adjustment can’t be electronic without choosing a higher model that isn’t on scheme.
The GTX has the Heads Up Display and uprated infotainment, which meant the drivers screen was on the stalk for the wheel and adjusted with the wheel, so you’ll always be looking through the wheel at it. However, you get that reflection on screen so can see the information you really need without looking away from the road.
It’s really not helped me much, the ID5 goes further (according to the salesman their demonstrators are getting 280/290 in summer, 220/240 now, despite all test drives being less than economical. The Enyaq (also according to the salesman) was getting 230 from the 60 (which is on scheme) and much less (190ish) in winter but the optional heat pump would help with that. Which is another problem, that’s a grand for something that is standard on the Nissan.
Having sat in both, there’s £1,350 difference between the two with another £1,000 to get to the Ariya. That means if I can get the £2,700 pack that includes heated seats plus wireless charging, keyless entry (but not handsfree boot) Adaptive cruise control, tri-zone climate control, heated steering wheel with regen paddles and USB C charging ports for the rear.
That puts the upgraded Enyaq closer in specification to the Ariya but sitting in the Nissan will tell if that’s enough.
according to vw uk there are a few of teh id5’s in stock too in the uk, just finding a dealer that will let one go.
There are but, as the salesman said, the likelihood of the dealership letting one go isn’t great. Likely wait is 6-12 months.
So, all I’ve achieved from that is that the ID5 feels much cheaper, although the pricetag is impacting my expectation somewhat. It’s also the case that the extra promised range is actually quite minimal, 50 miles further for that 15kWh. That will only really tell on a journey and, to be brutally truthful, both are further on a journey than my bladder reaches, so I’d be stopping for a 20 minute boost after around 100 miles anyway.
I’m not sure when I’ll get to the Nissan dealership, where I’ll have a look at the QQ and Ariya side by side and will compare the latter with today’s two. I’ll report back then.
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There’s one thing that I’m in a quandary about PHEV’s though and perhaps you can answer it for me? As I understand it, PHEV’s are primarily designed to be driven in the mode where the car automatically switches between petrol and electric. That way the engine and the battery work together to give the stated bhp. If the power split is say 160bhp petrol plus 80bhp electric (giving 240bhp combined) if you use the electric only mode you are driving a very heavy car with just an 80bhp engine. I can see that making sense if you live in a very built up area and most journey are slow and stop-start, but we are semi-rural and are on clear 40-60 mph roads within minutes. We are also a few miles from a motorway that we use frequently. I’m concerned that full EV mode won’t be as sensible for us given how we use our car (I don’t fancy driving a heavy 80bhp car for all our shorter journeys) and therefore would most likely want to utilise the petrol engine and battery together most of the time. What I don’t understand is if you use the car like that, what would be the petrol mpg equivalent when you deduct from the mpg shown in the car the daily recharging cost?
As with everything each car is made slightly differently. I had one before going fully EV and that worked best if I took control of what was powering the wheels. Anything over 40mph I had the engine do the work, anything below and it was electric. Also, around town I’d go electric for as far as possible, just because that’s the most relaxing and efficient way to do it. For long journeys, I’d stick with petrol all the way, saving electric until I’d left the last main/high speed road. Once driving around the destination town, the electric would kick in and, at the point where I needed it most, the relaxing drive would be available.
Others only really have limited ability to decide which power was doing what and some used the electric to boost the petrol which was helpful getting around lorries going uphill but not so much when you get where you’re going to a flat(ish) battery.
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Was in getting a service today. While waiting I had a look at a Tucson and they oddly had a Kia Sportage on the showroom too. Sportage was I think a higher model and have to say looked better inside by a fair degree. Both were fairly big cars compared to the konas. Looking at them beside konas they looked huge. I love the grill on the Tucson tho. edit. it was the ‘GT-Line S’ 1.6 T-GDI 226bhp 6-speed auto HEV. 39k
They are beasts.
The Sportage too a lot of design from the futuristic EV6 which means it’s taken cabin design up another step. I’m not sure quite why but cabin design went nearly nowhere in 30 year, stepped up a bit over the next 10 then recently has gone into high gear. A 5 year old car looks fully antique in comparison, the wrong 2 year old car and it’ll feel outdated too. My ZS (Mk1) was updated for the new model and instantly seemed old but compared to the newest most modern cars it’s positively ancient.
That’s also something of a concern, the cars I’m looking at on scheme aren’t exactly old spec but are beginning to look it, especially in comparison to some of the newest. Compare a Ford to the latest Nissans, or even the ID5 to the Ariya and there’s a step in what feels like design eras.
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(who show just a little bias)
Never
On a serious note are you having a wall charger fitted when you eventually get you new ID3? Reason I’m asking is if the NG need to do any minor works, its worth asking/begging for a 3phase supply as it will be free and your house will be future proofed. By that I mean you can have a 7-22Kw charger at a later date, especially given many EV’s are now starting to come with 22Kw onboard chargers:-) I use to fit charge points before I became ill, but I never ever use to feel jealous – honest ID3? When am I getting one of them? I’m still very far down the unhelpful tunnel of listing benefits/features of available models, then comes shortlisting, test driving and finally a decision I can be happy with. Last car was bought in lockdown based on looking from the outside, video reviews and several forums/groups recommendations. End result wasn’t a bad one but could have been better.
I will enquire about a 7kw wall charger but don’t need 3 phase, it’s technically not my home, so will have to settle for what the landlord allows/requires.
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Thanks for the heads up, I’ll record it.
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I currently have a mhev and I guess some are different to others, mein charges up when braking or coasting and then gives a boost when needed like when you start going uphill, it also powers the car via the 48v when it enters stop / start as opposed to the 12v and starts it back up instantly. I would of went for the new FHEV but it has an ags gearbox and isn’t really an auto and is alot slower although it can do a liitle mileage in just ev mode but not much, but it wasn’t for me because of the gearbox. So i’d say they all help a little to reduce the mpg and co2, but for me it’s the free extra power when needed that it gives the 1.4lt that really helps. I had a golf and when in eco mode it would coast but had no regen and so no boost. I am pretty impressed after 6 months of the mild hybrid and I don’t drive really economically and use adatptive cruise alot on longer journeys and getting just over 40 mpg combined. I could get better if i actually drove it not on the acc, but it helps me so much. I wouldn’t have a car without it. Plus i guess alot of my daily driving is cold driving, so you also don’t get such great mpg as the engine isn’t at optimum temp.
That’s interesting to hear. Most of what I know about these cars is manufacturer data and expereiences from theose on EV groups (who show just a little bias).
How would that work also on a bev, if you have no charging at home and so the battery is cold most of the time and as you cannot charge at home. Is it worth preconditioning before you leave, what effect would that have not doing so and just jumping in and driving to school and back in the morning and afternoon. The Nissan’s E-power is a very intresting one sounds similar to the toyota hybrids which have some amazing mpg although it powers the ev mode only. My guess is though, Nissan always get a lower mpg than they say alot lower and was the downside to the QQ i had on the scheme, although the ev driving the car might be the answer to that issue and the rear seat belts being very short.
All home charging I do is via a 3 pin plug. That means any preconditioning is from battery power and not the external power supply. I can impact range if you’re silly with it (I’ve seen people set their precon to stupidly hot over an extended period of time) but warm enough to clear the windows plus about 10 minutes worth only really cost me a few miles. The current car doesn’t have precon at all (poor decision, I know) but can go from cold to clear within 5 minutes even in the recent cold snap (only -3 down here though) that cost me 5 miles but had heat to max, blowers to max, both front seats heating – it was snug to get into.
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Rear heated seats are Tekna+ which isn’t on scheme. Front heated seats are Tekna. All seats are fake leather and cloth combination.
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When we talk about infrastructure it seems to always be referring to charging station and no consideration for the generating infrastructure. Can you imagine were we would be right now if all the cars on the road today were EV’s. At the moment its still a tiny percentage and there talking about blackouts if the weather gets cold. We have governments in the west that are clueless on just about everything but hope they got some sort of plan for upping the generation game in 7 years time or they really are about to break the nuclear fusion problem soon.
Blackouts and EVs are unrelated. The black out warnings are because some idiot believed that buying power and oil from one unfriendly country was wise. Once that was stopped, some countries have found their ability to supply electricity so badly impacted they can’t cope, while others have really struggled. ALL have invested dramatically less than necessary in building their own generation network, whether that’s nuclear, coal, renewable or a combination of all or some of the above, they’ve done nothing. Now, that has come back to bite us, the public on the butt with price increases caused by supply pricing and no option to go elsewhere. Even now, the powerstations being built are on a deal that wouldn’t see us any better off. Guaranteed future electricity prices for a French company? Who thought that wise?
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thats the big issue with electrics still at the moment, the infrastructure just isnt there if you cant charge at home. i would have changed to electric by now if i could get a home charger but its impossible. my lifestyle will suit as i mainly do short 20 mile max journies and maybe once a year do a longer journey on holiday. if i had decent public charging near me i would jump now, but there are 2 chargers within 6 miles of me and thats it listed on zap map. i think a couple of supermarkets have chargers but no idea of the cost. so ive gone for nissans hybrid juke this time and i reckon a lot of my journies will be cheaper and mpg higher.
That sums it up nicely. Cities are getting chargers in lamp posts, chargers in car parks and other destination type (slow) charging at relatively reasonable costs. However, if all you can do is rapid charging, the cost alone is prohibitive. I have know some people come to arrangements with neighbours, charging when you do those sorts of milages can be weekly, so for £10 per month, you charge on their drive overnight. That requires having a suitable person close enough (or willing to drive you home) who is willing to give up their drive for one night a week.
Otherwise, Tesco is around 28p per kW, Lidl rapids are 40p, not sure what their slower chargers are. Some retail parks still have free charging but you do need to be shopping there and it’s only limited parking.
However, yes, owning an electric car is dependent upon you being able to charge at your convenience, which may be at work… Without that opportunity, it needs a convenient charger near to or on route to/from home which is at the right price. If you can’t meet that criteria, the next best option would be petrol. I’m not convinced that mild hybrids actually bring anything to the table. You lose efficiency while charging for a couple of miles at most of pure EV, in some cases, it’s only a few hundred metres and you’re lumbered carrying around all that extra stuff to enable charging and use.
A plug in Hybrid (of which there really aren’t many on scheme) does give you some range but still gives you that charging problem.
So, without home charging I’d be in a petrol car, with it, I’d be choosing between full BEV or PHEV.
The only exception is Nissan’s E-power. That gives you all the fun of driving electric plus the efficiency of an electric motor but the convenience of carrying your own generator. The only thing is fuel consumption, until we get reliable information about real world examples, this could turn a great idea either into an expensive mistake or absolute brilliance.
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@mfillingham Good points and very constructive, What form of competion it would be, I don’t exactly know but something needs to be done to stop the monolopy they have and the advantages others do not. It could differ, after all how many leasing companies are there around, more than one. Or fleet and hire companies and they all negotiate with manufactures / dealers separately as even one could do youself. Or even some form of tendering for a fixed term contract, like how the lottery is run, there maybe other solutions and models than what mbo currently run.m Pretty much it’s being run like that now only difference is there’s no jackpot payouts, except to those running the scheme. What I don’t understand from some is why you cannot have a discusssion on the big issues about the scheme and this is one of them and whay can some not be outraged by it? Well imo it’s more a matter of being disgusted and outraged for many, over the huge profits and the how they using the funds.
Firstly, thanks I do try and be constructive.
It’s tough. Leasing a car is easy, you buy it then lease it for a while then sell it. Your purchasing power gives you the necessary discounts. For example if you were to approach Nissan UK with an order for 50 QashQai e-Power Tekna +s they’d happily discount them for you. Motability don’t seem to negotiate like that, from the little I see, it seems they offer a certain group of vehicles at a discounted rate but without committing to a set number of units.
Do you set up a number of charitable companies (level playingfield) enabled in the same legislation as Motability, for the provision of vehicles for disabled people of the UK? Then ask them to negotiate with the dealers on the basis that the maximum monthly allowance they get will be 4.333 weeks worth of Higher Rate Mobility allowance or it’s equivalent, anything above that needs to be funded either through resale at the end of lease or Advanced Payments from the customer (us). Then we see who gets the better end of the stick?
What is obvious is that currently, whatever the existing board decide to do, nobody has the inclination to hold them to account. Even this government wouldn’t be too bothered if the Telegraph went into meltdown over the profits and profiteering from disability benefits after all the press they’ve survived over the last few years.
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The thing is, with the range of a petrol / diesel car you wouldn’t need to be re-fueling at a motorway service station. When I had my EV it was costing my company around £24 to fully charge it on the motorway and I was getting a max of 180 miles for that sometimes 130 miles. Prices have increased massively since then.
August 21 we did a 400 mile round trip plus whatever mileage we put on around our destination. This was done charging at Exeter (there and back), Wincanton Morrisons (both ways) and Lidl on the way back. The total cost for all those miles was less than £20. Late last year I had to put a boost charge into the car at the local McDonalds, it was about 20 minutes worth and cost £21 for just over 100 miles extra. If that was my only options for charging, I’d be driving a petrol right now, for sure.
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I am happy with the scheme. I am unhappy with the injustice of taxpayer-provided funds intended to benefit people qualifying for PIP being misspent by the charity set up to help disabled people, without them being held accountable.
absolutely and they should and have some competion.
How does competition help?
Currently one company negotiates with each manufacturer. That company then provides what cars it can at the price it negotiates. If there’s two, do they then negotiate exclusive deals with each manufacturer? So Nissan is Motability and KIA with MobilityUK (for example) Stellantis with Motability, Hyundai MobilityUK, MG, Motability, etc. Does that mean that you need acceptance from both before hunting out your car? What if you get accepted from one but not the other just to find the most suitable car you can’t get because it’s the wrong company? What about those disabled people who struggle to get paperwork completed because they have mental capacity difficulties? They’d have to do everything twice? What about dealerships who have multiple brands, would they have different people helping each? Would they support the extra paperwork?
Motability need to be accountable, agree 100%. Motability need to be kept on their toes, again agree 100%. I’m just not convinced that putting other players in the space will make our lives better but I’m more than happy to be proved wrong.
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£1.50 a litre round here. Motorway driving at least 45mpg. So 15p a mile.
Is that £1.50 at motorway prices though? (genuine question, I like comparing apples with apples, it’s easier).
However, that does, just, show EVs to be cheaper (skin of teeth here).
Honest reality is that if you were to buy an EV run it completely on public, rapid chargers you would pay much more over 3 years than an equivalent petrol car. That’s down to electricity prices being ridiculous right now and public charging still getting clobbered full VAT. Prices have jumped from 28p per litre (on crappy unreliable chargers) to 65p or even more but the network is, mainly, less unreliable for that investment. I’ve seen charges nearing £1 per kWh, which is insane. However, I’ve also seen motorway service stations in remote areas charging 10% more than others.
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Road tax is renewed by you. You will get your renewal notice and will be able to take that to a post office and it’ll be stamped off as a disability exempt car. I don’t know if it can be done online, I only have experience of my parents doing that.
Breakdown, you get a number to call, they’ll have all your details from Motability, same with insurance. Your dealership will let you know when servicing is due and will book it in with you. They’ll also provide a courtesy car while they have yours.
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Using motorway services to charge an EV will cost far more than running either a petrol or diesel car.
Evidence?
Gridserve who operate a large number of Motorway service stations are quoted on the mapping services at 65p per kWh. My car gets AT LEAST 4 miles per kWh, so 4 miles per 65p or just over 16p per mile public charged. There are cars that will return 5 or 6 miles per kWh, which reduces that further. That’s the expensive options.
It’s been a long time since I last drove a petrol engined car so I’ve no idea what the realistic mpg looks like at £180odd per litre.
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I just don’t understand the problem and the obsession with Motability, no one is holding a gun to your head, you are free chose how to use your allowance, the majority of us are quite happy with the scheme.
The problem isn’t the scheme. However, the perception when disabled people are required to pay increasing APs for business reasons beyond Motability’s control but the profits hit £1 BILLION and the boss gets huge bonuses. That money comes from the pockets of the disabled people and the taxpayer. Regardless of whether I was on scheme or not I’d be outraged at £1 billion being taken out of the economy, especially paid for out of the government budgets, at the same time as public services are facing strike action for pay. That profit margin would go a long way to aiding problems that the current government can’t (or won’t) find the money to solve. To put it in full context the NHS was given and addition £500Million or HALF A BILLION to solve the problems it’s facing. If payments to Motability were reduced, or profits returned to public coffers, that payment could have been twice as much.
Any private company is perfectly entitled to make a profit, however, when they take money from the public purse, the public have a right to know that money is well spent and profits are not excessive. £1Bn is excessive, it’s getting on for Microsoft or Amazon type amounts, not a single country’s disability mobility company’s level of acceptable profit.
I think that the scheme does a brilliant job, provides reliable transportation to people who would have had a cheap, unreliable and potentially hazardous vehicle with the option to have something suitable that is fully maintained for them. That’s fantastic. What’s less so, and the reason behind this post, is people making large amounts of money from this organisation.
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We stay around the Penzance / St Ives area, there’s a rapid charger at the new St Erth train station / interchange that’s been faulty for months. A town the size of Penzance only seems to have 7 kw supermarket chargers. Can you imagine what it’s like in August. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a green at heart, I really want to go electric. But it needs to be practical.
If it was me, I’d charge at Cornwall service on the way in, then if charging where your staying isn’t an option, use the supermarket chargers to boost that when you can. As long as you have enough to get back to (just beyond) Indian Queens on the way out, you’re sorted. Charge again at Cornwall Services and then again on the motorway. It’s a bit of a pain but resolves a lot of the worry. Also note some attractions are having/have chargers in place so you can visit, say, the Eden Project for a good few hours and top up whilst there.
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To me, I’m very much undecided. On one hand you get all the economies of charging at home, the convenience of jumping in to a full ‘tank’ every morning and not having to visit a petrol station to pay out large lumps of cash.
It’s the other hand that causes a bit of confusion for me. The EVs on scheme aren’t often the top or higher range models OR don’t have the range. If I can’t drive at 60 for 1 hour 15 minutes, I have to stop before the point where I would usually stop on a journey. That’s around 110 miles from home to Exeter Services. After that I may still need further charges depending upon distance traveled. If I need to have a car capable of a winter 120 miles that means 60kWh minimum, which is either the Ariya (£7,999), ID5 (£6,995) or Enyaq (£5,649). All of which are the base model and, as far as I can tell, have no additional packs. The only one with possible pack options is the Ariya, if they’re still on scheme but not listed. The alternative would be something like the Tucson PHEV Ultimate (£5,599) which has all the toys and more and can get me around town on electric only if I charge every night. OR there’s the QashQai E-Power Tekna (£3,199), which has a good few toys but 2 miles without petrol on a good day.
The question for me is whether I prefer to pay the AP up front and have pure electric and have to run several stops long distance OR face trips to the petrol station for a lower AP but less stops on a longer run?
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We don’t have an EV, but were really looking forward to getting one on next year. I’m beginning to have doubts, not about general everyday use, we have a drive and home charging should be straightforward. My main issue is the charging infrastructure when you are away from home. I’ve mentioned here a few times, we go to Cornwall from the Northwest 4 times a year and the chargers are just not there in sufficient numbers. If we got an MG5, the motorway range would be 180 miles or less, a journey of 370 miles would see us stop to charge 3 times. Many of the services on the M5 and A30 only have 2 chargers, this is just not good enough. Plus when you get into Cornwall, you’d need to go into Truro or Cambourne every couple of days to charge. Maybe in 5 years when the infrastructure is better or range on an affordable EV is 400 miles.
Exeter M5 services has a whole row of chargers since Autumn last year. Cornwall Services have a hub being built although that seems to be on Cornish time. More McDonalds seem to be getting chargers, as do a number of shops now. Newquay has a few and more are getting added, although I’ve no idea whether they’re rapids or destination chargers. That all said, Cornwall is a special place for EVs, if you can’t charge overnight you’ve a problem pretty quickly.
Personally, EVs are much more relaxing to drive, smoother and easier once you get used to them. If you can drive 200 miles or more on a charge at 60 then you’re going to be fine, there’s enough around even down here for you to be able to get by.
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@kezo My local? Yeomans.
Pity I was hoping you could take me for a spin when you got your car
You never know it may have converted me I thought you already had an ID on order?I’m one of those sad individuals who take for ever to make a decision on such purchases. Given I’ve my own MG ZS right now, I can afford to take my time and get the car that suits my needs best, thus nothing is, as yet, on order.
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@kezo My local? Yeomans.
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Forgive me if I’m wrong – you need to take the convenience basic package to get privacy glass? I believe MG is now including privacy glass art no extra cost!
It’s insane isn’t it? A ‘basic’ car for £40 grand and some basics available on much cheaper electric cars simply aren’t there. However, fit 5 grands worth of pack and you’ll get to what the Ariya had as standard….
The ID5 seems to have the best combination of range and equipment but I’m struggling to see from the PDF exactly what is standard and what is a pack, so I may be overstating it’s equipment so far. I feel a trip to the VW dealership might be in order soon, they happen also to be our Skoda dealership as well so I might kill two proverbial birds.
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As with selling anything you do your homework and you get the best results. I would strongly suggest looking at a number of sites that will value your car, including Autotrader, We Buy Any Car, Motorway. Then armed with a price you know you’ll get (allow for WBAC to reduce the value due to condition, they’ll find something unless it’s completely immaculate) you can walk away from the dealer, sell it elsewhere and pay cash for the difference.
If you choose to sell privately, you’ll get more but it will take more effort and you’ll have to deal with the potential for people to waste your time.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
Do you have as strong an opinion on the Vauxhall (French owned) Astra PHEV and the costs associated. Frankly that ‘Datsun’ is a wonderful price of engineering.
Let’s not forget the Grandland is the same AP as the Ariya.
Having had the e2008 as a courtesy car when the MG has been in for a service, it feels cheap. Stellantis do have a tendancy of having cars that could feel just that little better if a touch more money was spent on materials. Whereas ‘Datsun’ have a reputation for building their cars properly.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
