- This topic has 389 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 8 hours, 19 minutes ago by
.
- Topic
I currently have a Tucson PHEV on 24 hour test and have a few questions for @kezo @JohntheLeg and anyone else who has one.
The car the dealer has given me, whilst brand new, is unfortunately the pre facelift model, so it’s a bit different from what I had researched. They are giving me a facelift one for another 24 hours when I take this one back, but it’s not a PHEV, so my education on PHEVs is right now.
I’ve just been on a decent drive in both EV and Auto (which was mostly EV) and deliberately let the battery run out so that I could then see what it was like on petrol only. All worked fine but I’ve just parked it in the garage with a view to recharging it and the ruddy cable in the car is one that only works in a charging station – not the 3 pin (granny charger) that I expected. This is irritating as tomorrow I wanted to take my wife on our usual ‘local’ journeys on EV mode but now can’t 😡. Two questions;
1) Does the Tucson PHEV come with a charging cable that can be used in a 3 pin plug as standard, or do you have to buy one?
2) There is a third driving mode that I haven’t used yet (Hybrid?), although I think the car may have now been ‘forced’ into it by the battery running out. Is this a mode where the petrol engine charges the battery? If so, if I take it out for a drive tonight (which I intend to do anyway to test the headlights) will I be able to ‘charge’ the battery? Is there a way to do this?
Thanks
- Replies
Ok I will give you an example towing a 1500kg caravan back from the New Forest 181.7 miles from site to home,
13.6 kWh £2.04
Fuel 25.75 litres £35.77 (£1.39 litre)
Total £37.81, now covert that back to litres (37.81 divide by 1.39 = equivalent to 27.20 litre)
27.20 litres divide by 4.546 = 5.98 gallons.
181.7 miles divide by 5.98 gallons = 30.38 mpg.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
Ok I will give you an example towing a 1500kg caravan back from the New Forest 181.7 miles from site to home, 13.6 kWh £2.04 Fuel 25.75 litres £35.77 (£1.39 litre) Total £37.81, now covert that back to litres (37.81 divide by 1.39 = equivalent to 27.20 litre) 27.20 litres divide by 4.546 = 5.98 gallons. 181.7 miles divide by 5.98 gallons = 30.38 mpg.
349 miles total
£5.20 electric cost taking into account 0-100% charge for ease.
£34.09 fuel cost.
Total £39.29 convert back to litres 39.29 / 1.39 = 28.26 litre
28.26 / 4.546 = 6.22 gal
349 / 6.22 = 56.1 mpg
If I then want to work out pence per mile from the calculated mpg (56.1), I would assume I calculate this as:
(Petrol price in pence / 100) ÷ (MPG / 0.22)
(137.5 / 100) / (56.1 /0.22)
1.375 / 255 = 0.005 pence per mile ???
Surely the correct way to do this, is find the total cost for journey and divide by the number of miles?
(34.09 + 5.20) / 349
£39.29 /349 = 11.2p per mile ?
Your help is much appreciated mate 🙂
The other day we went to Oswestry 134 miles started off with a full battery used 4.03 litres £5.80 and 14.2 kWh to recharge £2.13 = £6.93
£6.93 @ 1.38 litre = 5.022 litres/1.105 gallons 121.27mpg or 5.12 pence per mile.
We normally see around 61 miles EV local journeys this time of year, longer journeys approximately 50/54 miles.
Its possible 80 miles (assuming 134-54) were achieved in hybrid mode using 4.03 litres/0.886 gallons = 90.29 mpg
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
The other day we went to Oswestry 134 miles started off with a full battery used 4.03 litres £5.80 and 14.2 kWh to recharge £2.13 = £6.93 £6.93 @ 1.38 litre = 5.022 litres/1.105 gallons 121.27mpg or 5.12 pence per mile. We normally see around 61 miles EV local journeys this time of year, longer journeys approximately 50/54 miles. Its possible 80 miles (assuming 134-54) were achieved in hybrid mode using 4.03 litres/0.886 gallons = 90.29 mpg
I’m planning on going on a 1yr fix with Octopus @22p kWh. Unlike you I don’t have solar/battery, which means the day rate for EDF go elelectric or Octopus go is inflated, nor would I wouldn’t transfer my usage to overnight and don’t think I’m brave enough for Agile 😂
If, I chose to go on Octopus Go for example at a later date, that would make my charging costs £2.35, which is less than half of the £5.20 it cost for the stated journey.
By using you calculations based on 8.5pkWh (£2.35) would have given me 60.6mpg (around £4 saving)
Or 9.6pence a mile rather than 11.2p
Since, I have had the car, I have over 1200 miles and economy started to get better after 1000 miles, as it did with my previous Tucson, which settle after about 2200 miles. Electric range is also creeping up, which I find weird especially since the weather hasn’t drastically changed since having the car. My return journey home, I charged to 92% due to my parents shity Ohme charger only decided to charge at 3.7kW, which I wasn’t to pleased with as I wanted to test range at 60+mph on way to Shersbury. Anyway it switched to hybrid at 38 miles, so if it was charged to 100% I’ll hazard a guess electric only would be in the region of 40-42 miles, maybe more if I slowed down a bit lol. I’ll try next time but, big improvement on the 34 miles I was getting when first had the car.
As always thank you for your advice 🙂
@Glos-Guy have you read that manual yet 😂@kezo I think we are now in violent agreement 😂 We are now less than 0.5mpg apart and that’s because I used your petrol cost as £1.37 a litre and you used £1.39. It all looks positive.
When I get ours next week I’m going to keep a log of how much fuel I buy and how many times I charge it and work out an accurate cost per mile, and then work that back to an accurate ‘true’ mpg equivalent allowing for the charging costs. I need to satisfy myself that it’s going to be cheaper to run than the (albeit very economical) BMW, so that I’m not going to get irritated by having to charge it after each use rather than just do a 5 minute petrol stop every 3 weeks or so as I do with the BMW 😂
@kezo I think we are now in violent agreement
We are now less than 0.5mpg apart and that’s because I used your petrol cost as £1.37 a litre and you used £1.39. It all looks positive. When I get ours next week I’m going to keep a log of how much fuel I buy and how many times I charge it and work out an accurate cost per mile, and then work that back to an accurate ‘true’ mpg equivalent allowing for the charging costs. I need to satisfy myself that it’s going to be cheaper to run than the (albeit very economical) BMW, so that I’m not going to get irritated by having to charge it after each use rather than just do a 5 minute petrol stop every 3 weeks or so as I do with the BMW Using @Oscarmax ‘s calculation for mpg, it came out as 56.1 mpg over 349 miles. If you can acheive that, I’m sure you will be happy.
However, I don’t fully get how you can add two very different fuels at vastly different prices all into litres and then gallons but he’s the expert.
On the otherhand, I fully got how he was working out pence per mile, by adding the 2 costs together and dividing that by the number of miles, as I have been doing which works out at 11.2p a mile.
I think for now especially, I will go the easy route to get pence per mile, at least till I can do a spreadsheet, because its fecking doing my head in 😂
I go back up a week on Saturday and will see how figures compare. I may even try a more relaxed drive but, every time I tell myself that, it never happens lol.
More importantly, how many pages have you read and are you getting the gist of things?
P.S Yup, I realised my error with petrol price l, The second hyperthetical calculation, I did with cheap electricity and 1.37 returned some decent intersting figurers. However if you take into account the increased day rate on these two rate tariffs, for the same 349 miles, the pence per mile is only 1.5p cheaper but, mpg was 60!
I’ve got my head around all the figures now thankfully. The start point is pence per mile, which we all can work out easily by adding the charge cost to the petrol cost and dividing by miles driven.
For me, the meaningful thing is then to divide that pence per mile into the cost of a gallon of petrol to work out what the mpg would have been had we spent the cost of the charging on extra petrol. That then gives a perfectly accurate comparison of running a PHEV versus an ICE in mpg terms, which I think most people understand more than pence per mile. Oscarmax is working out the running costs accurately including charging costs, but most PHEV owners on this forum don’t and purely quote the mpg as stated on the fuel computer, which is a totally false impression as it takes no account of charging costs. Fine if they are happy with that, but I want a true like-for-like comparison as that’s just me 😂
As for the owners manual, I’ve been out most of today having beers and lunch with some mates, but I made a good start last night and am about 15-20% in to the thick manual with one page of notes made to play with in the car. I have more time over the next few days. I need to get through it, as he’s also given me the infotainment manual, but that’s a lightweight by comparison at just under 200 pages 🤣
I just use an Excel spead sheet it make life so much easier, I put the data onto my spreadsheet at the end of the month I can see my average mileage, mpg, electric and fuel cost, as the majority of my journeys are less than 50 miles, I rarely fill up with fuel, it is only when we are towing the caravan, over the winter because we are not towing last year I went over 4 1/2 months before topping up.
We are Octopus Agile so our electricity follows the market cost, so my energy cost are a moving target I very rarely pay over 16 pence kWh, the majority of the time considerably less in the winter we see a lot of negative prices. This weekend there is excess energy being generated price are negative, they are actually paying use to charge up both the PHEV, the solar storage battery plus power the house, on my spread sheet I just record it a zero cost.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
I just use an Excel spead sheet it make life so much easier, I put the data onto my spreadsheet at the end of the month I can see my average mileage, mpg, electric and fuel cost, as the majority of my journeys are less than 50 miles, I rarely fill up with fuel, it is only when we are towing the caravan, over the winter because we are not towing last year I went over 4 1/2 months before topping up. We are Octopus Agile so our electricity follows the market cost, so my energy cost are a moving target I very rarely pay over 16 pence kWh, the majority of the time considerably less in the winter we see a lot of negative prices. This weekend there is excess energy being generated price are negative, they are actually paying use to charge up both the PHEV, the solar storage battery plus power the house, on my spread sheet I just record it a zero cost.
I agree a monthly/4 weekly spread sheet is the way to go. Most months are pretty constanst with a weekly 100 mile electric and one trip of 320 – 400 miles.
With Agile, do you switch tariffs over winter ?
The Agile rate is much better in the winter the wind turbines generate excess energy, lots of very cheap or negative energy.
We use Tracker for gas
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
@kezo Having now (finally) worked out how I can accurately work out the ‘true’ mpg equivalent economy of the PHEV, so that I can compare it to an ICE car, can I just run this past you? Obviously the mileage driven on electric is much less per mile than the mileage driven on petrol, so my aim will be to ensure that I maximise the EV mileage. Having test driven the Tucson PHEV over 2 days and tried all 3 driving modes, my plan is as follows (all assume starting the journey with a full charge).
Round trips of 40 miles or less – Run the car in ‘EV’ mode for the whole journey, letting the car switch into Hybrid (HEV) for the last few miles.
Longer journeys over 40 miles round trip – Run the car in ‘Auto’ mode from the outset. On the return journey, keep an eye on the remaining ‘EV only’ range (if any) and when the distance to home equals the remaining EV range switch to ‘EV’ mode.
The aim of the above is to never arrive home with unused ‘EV only’ range if the car has used petrol at any time, and to absolutely minimise time in Hybrid ‘HEV’ mode, which we both worked out was the most cost inefficient of the 3 modes. Does that all sound sensible?
Also, the car is being supplied with 2 charging cables – a 3 pin granny charger (which I’ll use at home) and a public charging cable. I’ve never considered charging away from home as my thoughts are that the time (and potentially costs) far outweigh the minor benefit of the small amount of electric range, and I might as well do those few miles on petrol. However, when we are on holiday in a few weeks time and we park up somewhere where we are going to be for a few hours and there are chargers, my questions would be;
1) Is it worth the effort or don’t even bother?
2) Will the charger (or car) automatically set the correct charge rate? (don’t PHEVs charge at a very low / slow rate compared to proper EVs?)
3) Assuming it’s easy to do for a complete EV novice like me, and it’s worth the effort, how long would it take to charge from 15-100%?
Many thanks
PHEV are more efficient when the battery is down to 50/40% it allows the regeneration system to work more efficiently.
Public chargers need to be less than 35 pence a kWh, otherwise run in HEV mode.
The vehicles ECU has been programmed to run E15 unleaded petrol, there is zero benefits in using E5 super unleaded, stick with the cheapest E10 unleaded petrol.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
@POPS can you do me the honours please and approve mu post 🙂
I leave mine in Auto mode regardless of journey, however my advice is do as I did and play about with the modes till you find what suits your journey’s best.
On my return home Sunday, I was paying particular attention to the EV range and the battery percentage in the PHEV section on the infotainment screen. The pictures show electric range @12% battery shown in the infotainment settings. Few seconds after the 2nd picture the car switched to hybrid.
I also managed to get this on the way up, which shows through regen braking etc has sufficiently recharged the to 15-17%, enabling the car to come out of hybrid mode and back into electric. At other times the car will stay in hybrid but light up the EV light and drive for a shorter distance in electric, like a full hybrid does, as you can see in the second picture, as I was in town 3 miles from home.
Given the Tucson has a AC charge rate of 7.2kW, It would be pontless parking up and paying the rates for a 150kW DC charger. However, if you can park on a carpark that has 7kW & 22kW AC chargers and the rates aren’t too disimilar to what you pay at home or no more expensive than @Oscarmax suggests, then it might be worth getting your Type 2 cable out and charging whils’t you walk around. ZAP map might be worth looking at before you go to see if there are any such chargers near or at where you normally park.
A couple of pic of Tut-Ton climbing up over the Brecon Beacons 🙂
@POPS can you do me the honours please and approve mu post 🙂
sorry for the delay. It’s the three link rule, a photo counts as a link, I can’t seem to find where to change it!
@POPS can you do me the honours please and approve mu post
sorry for the delay. It’s the three link rule, a photo counts as a link, I can’t seem to find where to change it!
Thank you wmc 🙂
I wouldn’t worry on how to change it!
Sorry kezo. I was out (for a change, lol) and have only just come in and read your post.
Very nice car!
Thanks @POPS
Morning @kezo Thanks for that. It seems as though my hunch that charging a PHEV when out and about is a case of too much effort for far too little gain might have been correct, so I think I’ll just stick with petrol when on holiday. After all, the attraction of getting a PHEV over a BEV was not having to faff about with charging it anywhere other than at home.
I was interested to see your dash photos, but before I ask you some questions about those I hope you’ll forgive me for encouraging you not to take photos whilst driving. Handling a phone whilst driving can now be a 6 point penalty and that can be the least of your worries if you have an accident whilst doing so. The Police can seize your phone and check if you were using it at the time of the accident and, if found to be doing so, the penalties can be even more severe. It’s just not worth the risk. Sorry for the lecture mate, and your other half may well have taken the photos, in which case I apologise, but I do have some professional knowledge of this issue and most people don’t appreciate how serious an offence this is now deemed to be.
Anyway, back on topic, in the first two photos, does the 37.6 and 38.5 refer to the remaining EV range? I remember seeing that in the car on my test drives but can’t remember where it was shown. The reason I ask is that in the other two photos the same symbol is used for figures that are way higher than the maximum EV range. I’m assuming that the third photo is the total EV mileage that you’ve driven since that display was last reset (so over multiple journeys and charges) and the final photo your total trip mileage, but the fact that they all have the same symbol is what confused me?
Finally, am I right in thinking that the LV1 symbol refers to the level of regenerative braking? I didn’t notice that on my test drive (and didn’t feel any regenerative braking either – thank goodness as I hated it on the BEVs that I drove). I’m half way through the owners manual (🥲) and haven’t seen any mention of it yet. Regenerative braking isn’t mentioned in the index either 🙄. From memory, I think you said that it’s adjustable via the left paddle?
BTW, your car looks great in those photos. I know that you wish that, with hindsight, you’d gone for the Ultimate again, but you have to agree that the N Line S looks far better and your colour choice really suits it 👍
Morning GG
The first 2 photo’s are showing my current trip, from when I left Sunday. They are showing real worl EV range! I was monitoring the battery state on the infotainment screen, as soon as it reached 12%, several pics a minute apart were taken to try and capture when it went into hybrid, not long after the second picture, it went into hybrid. So that is showing the actual range in realtime!
Lvl 1 is indeed the lowest of 3 regen setting I’m learning to tolerate. It isn’t miles apart from regen breaking, which still puts charge in battery when slowing “but but” it taking some getting use to and I tend to only use it when there is a junction or roundabout ahead and try to round town, especially commming down the steep hill from home There is a negative to using on motorways or long stretches of fast roads because you can miss out on the cars “coasting” function.
Coast/ing I forget what its called but has 2 settings, which can be found in the manual. Coast/ing display comes up on the drivers display, which allows you to take your foot off the accelerator and maintain current speed on battery power (not sure about petrol) and better economy. Mine is set to the 2nd option, which is the least amount of coasting. I may have the wrong setting though 😂
Pic’s were taken using a 4k Aliexpress bluetooth pinhole camera ontop of steering wheel bar the last pic. In long run, I plan on attaching a shoe to the steering column cover for my gopro style camera.
My advice is try a few different setting and it won’t take long to find what suits your driving best 🙂
Something I mentioned in an earlier comment and worth doing again, is mpg/ battery range seems to increase around 1,000 miles. My previous Tucson if I remember, got best economy after 1500 -200 miles!
Ah, got it. So the first 2 figures were miles you’d actually travelled in EV mode, not (as I thought) what your remaining EV only range was 🙄😂. That makes more sense and I’m very impressed with those figures. Most reviews of other PHEVs tend to suggest that real world EV range is significantly below what is claimed by the manufacturers (much like quoted BEV ranges versus reality), but that’s bang on what Hyundai claim from memory 👍
Re the regenerative braking, am I correct in thinking that, whilst driving, the left paddle will allow me to scroll between LV1, LV2, LV3 and OFF (no regenerative braking at all)? I tried the right paddle when I had the car on test and it put the car into manual gear changes (which I’d never use). I thought I’d done the same with the left paddle, but might not have done as I don’t recall seeing the LV symbol and I certainly didn’t feel any element of regenerative braking (one reason I preferred driving it over the iX1s that I’d had on test)
I’d got as far as the coasting section of the manual but thought that was just a dashboard prompt to ease off the gas. I’ll have to have a play with that when I get it.
Nice one with the camera set up. Very sensible. Apologies for mentioning that, but I see so many people on the road with phones in their hand and I have seen first hand what happens to those people when they are caught.
Hopefully, in a few weeks time I might have some nuggets to share with you as well! It’s very much been one way traffic so far, but I really appreciate all the help and advice 👍 Whilst I shall be sad to see the BMW go, I’m quite looking forward to the whole new experience that I’ll have with the Tucson and, in particular, all the extra kit. This might sound sad, but the thing I’m looking forward to most is the blind spot side view cameras that appear in the dashboard when you indicate, the red warnings of a vehicle in your blind spot that appear on the head up display and the fact that if you still manage to miss all of that the car will steer you away from a potential collision. I don’t have any of that on the BMW and I have to confess that over the last few months I’ve had a number of instances where I’ve come quite close to missing a car that was in my blind spot. Whilst not ‘old’ I’m not oblivious to the fact that our reactions slow as we get older and I’m all for some safety aids to counter that. I thought that whole set up on the Tucson was brilliant.
I was happy with the EV range especially at higher speeds. Is there room for sensible improvement without driving like a granny, I don’t know. 5c and below over winter, will be an interesting one to watch!
Regen breaking Eco mode “left paddle” – levels 1 to 3 and hold for max regen – right paddle to decrease 3,2,1 and off. Sport mode “right paddle” up gears – “left paddle” down gears.
For someone who is into electronics & the latest gizmo’s, my Android phone is quite basic and doesn’t have wireless charging. It is kept on the lower shelf of the centre console by the USB ports. Incidentley, I had to buy a USB C to USB C cable, due to the car now having USB C ports.
I’m sure we can learn together once you get yours and share usefull knowledge with each other over the next 3 years. Its certainly a learning curve! Just don’t ask me how the memory or easy axcess drivers seat works, because I am missing them on this model compared to the previos Ultimate and I’m not going to tell you or the fact ventillated seats work better on leather, than Alcantara 😂
Hyundai’s Blind View Monitor is an excellent idea, I’m suprised no other manufacturer has come up with something similar. Added to all the other features it actually makes for a more relaxed drive.
Thanks for that info @kezo I’ve just been watching a really interesting video on YouTube that was posted yesterday by ‘Harry’s Garage’ called “Why EV uptake is stalling and the government must abandon its ZEV mandate”. It was posted yesterday. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of his videos but he’s bang on the money with things.
Anyway, the reason that I mention it is that he shows some cost calculations, and he does exactly the same calculation that I finally landed on the other day I.e. work out the cost per mile of charging and then divide that pence per mile back in to the price of a gallon of petrol to work out the mpg equivalent. I’ve finished the manuals BTW 👍I was surprised how much I already knew after my 48 hours of test drives, but I’ve managed to distill over 700 pages down to 3 pages of notes of things that I’m going to check out when I get the car. Oddly, I couldn’t see the regenerative braking instructions anywhere, so thanks for the info.
BTW, not that I’m overly bothered if it has the feature or not, as I’ve had it in my last few cars and never use it, but does the UK Tucson have the system that measures spaces when you drive slowly past them and then automatically parks the car with the driver just using the forward and drive gears but not touching the steering wheel? I don’t mean the system that you get with the smart key that parks the car remotely (which I think is a gimmick and not practical to use other than perhaps for putting a car in a tight garage), but the system that you still need to be in the car to auto park.
BTW, not that I’m overly bothered if it has the feature or not, as I’ve had it in my last few cars and never use it, but does the UK Tucson have the system that measures spaces when you drive slowly past them and then automatically parks the car with the driver just using the forward and drive gears but not touching the steering wheel? I don’t mean the system that you get with the smart key that parks the car remotely (which I think is a gimmick and not practical to use other than perhaps for putting a car in a tight garage), but the system that you still need to be in the car to auto park.
My view on “auto Park”, is they always make a mountain out of a mole hill parking and to the outsider make you look like your a learner driver, even on the larges’t of parking spaces 😂
The only option that would have been available is the Lux Pack (£600) – this includes “Remote Park” but, I’m not sure if it included button inside the vehicle as on i5/6 or just remote key option. The pack also offered “Digital Key”, where you can store you car key on your mobile phone. None of these would have interested me!
The 360 camera’s and Birds eye camera, are of excellent quality and one of the best Ive seen tbh.
Is it tomorrow or Thursday you pick yours up?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.