deposit on seat ateca

  • This topic has 26 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 6 months ago by kezo.
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  • #254871
    cazzab71
    Participant

      Ordered a seat ateca 1.5 tsi evo xperience lux auto,  had to pay £100 deposit to secure the car, never had to do it before, dealer said it was to secure the car as a lot of people panicking and ordering cars then cancelling and have to put my name to the car, is this the norm, and if I do cancel I will lose my deposit as it’s a 3 to 4 month wait for the car, he said it’s nothing to do with motability it’s the dealer and a lot of dealers are doing it.

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 26 total)
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    • #254945
      Avatar photoColin
      Participant

        They can ask,and it’s not uncommon but also not standard. You can refuse but at least it’s a reasonable amount and they told you up front it was nonrefundable.

        I’ve never paid a deposit and never had a lower value car, Volvo XC40, VW Tiguan R-Line and Skoda Enyaq 85x (all £2k+ APs) but possibly just lucky.

        You aren’t tied to any one dealer so if you aren’t willing to pay in the future, just try ordering at a different dealer, you can still move back to your local for servicing etc.

        I have always had the thought in my head that I’d refuse if asked but never actually had that idea tested.

        "Man is born in freedom, but he soon becomes a slave, in cages of convention, from the cradle, to the grave."

        #254946
        Shuffler3
        Participant

          Never had to do that before but when you get the car it will be worth it . Ive the TSI 150 FR sport and without a doubt it’s the best car I’ve ever had . Amazing engine and performs like a hatchback . You will not be disappointed ?

          #254952
          kezo
          Participant

            Dealers are in the right to request a deposit. The grey area is you don’t enter a legally binding contract with the dealer. The only contract that is entered is with Motability when you enter your PIN. Although the dealer might try it on after paying a deposit and you were to cancel, they aren’t legally obliged to keep any deposit payed and any deposit payed is part of the Advance Payment. That is my understanding.

            Also see @Glos Guy comment here.

            https://forum.whichmobilitycar.co.uk/forums/topic/cancellation-fee/

            #254961
            Tgreen
            Spectator

              There is no “grey area”

              If you sign a new vehicle sales order with a dealership you have committed to a contact for them to supply the vehicle.

              You are correct that the contact does not start with Motability until the PIN is entered, this is separate as this only guarantees the purchase side of the where the dealer will be paid, the exact same thing of you where taking any finance.

              For the sale of goods the actual contact is made when the seller (dealer) accepts the money (deposit) from the customer this forms the sale and the signed contract apply.

              If the contact you signed states no deposit refunds or that you are made aware of this verbally then here the terms are clear.

               

              Should anyone cancel a vehicle order where they have paid a deposit it is entirely unto the discretion of that individual dealer to refund the customer should the wish to.

              #255049
              Pistnbroke
              Participant

                I paid a small deposit when ordering my Ateca FR Sport 4motion TDI.

                Excellent car, well worth the wait.

                 

                #255055
                Geriboo
                Participant

                  I’ve just cancelled my Ateca lux order made on 3oth Dec. Didn’t pay a holding deposit or cancellation fee.

                  Dealer didn’t ask, they weren’t bothered if I ordered or cancelled tbh. Little or no contact from them after online order.

                  In fact, rep asked if they had already ordered the car!

                  #255058
                  kezo
                  Participant

                    There is no “grey area” If you sign a new vehicle sales order with a dealership you have committed to a contact for them to supply the vehicle. You are correct that the contact does not start with Motability until the PIN is entered, this is separate as this only guarantees the purchase side of the where the dealer will be paid, the exact same thing of you where taking any finance. For the sale of goods the actual contact is made when the seller (dealer) accepts the money (deposit) from the customer this forms the sale and the signed contract apply. If the contact you signed states no deposit refunds or that you are made aware of this verbally then here the terms are clear. Should anyone cancel a vehicle order where they have paid a deposit it is entirely unto the discretion of that individual dealer to refund the customer should the wish to.

                    Motability deals with the manufacturer directly, the dealer acts as a third party to Motability. Your agreeent/contract is with Motability not the dealer, as would otherwise be if you were a retail customer, thus falling under the consumer credit act with the dealer as a retail customer.

                    Motability gives instructions on how to sign your agreement/contract, as set out below.

                    To “sign” your Agreement with us, you will
                    need to be with your supplying dealer. You
                    will need to insert your PIN into our system
                    (as directed by your supplying dealer), and
                    this will be used in the same way as if you
                    had used a handwritten signature. Note this
                    Agreement is not finalised until you have
                    inserted your PIN into our system at your
                    local dealership.

                     

                    #255070
                    Tgreen
                    Spectator

                      There is no “grey area” If you sign a new vehicle sales order with a dealership you have committed to a contact for them to supply the vehicle. You are correct that the contact does not start with Motability until the PIN is entered, this is separate as this only guarantees the purchase side of the where the dealer will be paid, the exact same thing of you where taking any finance. For the sale of goods the actual contact is made when the seller (dealer) accepts the money (deposit) from the customer this forms the sale and the signed contract apply. If the contact you signed states no deposit refunds or that you are made aware of this verbally then here the terms are clear. Should anyone cancel a vehicle order where they have paid a deposit it is entirely unto the discretion of that individual dealer to refund the customer should the wish to.

                      Motability deals with the manufacturer directly, the dealer acts as a third party to Motability. Your agreeent/contract is with Motability not the dealer, as would otherwise be if you were a retail customer, thus falling under the consumer credit act with the dealer as a retail customer. Motability gives instructions on how to sign your agreement/contract, as set out below. To “sign” your Agreement with us, you will need to be with your supplying dealer. You will need to insert your PIN into our system (as directed by your supplying dealer), and this will be used in the same way as if you had used a handwritten signature. Note this Agreement is not finalised until you have inserted your PIN into our system at your local dealership.

                       

                       

                      I dont know why you keep quoting the motability side of ordering a vehicle.

                       

                      Unfortunately its irrelevant what they say here, if you sign a sales contact that is what the law would determine as contractual law.

                      when you have motability saying the contract is with them and the manufacturer thats true on their side but almost all dealerships are independent  franchises this is where your sales contract is with.

                       

                      its irrelevant what mototabily say upon vehicle ordering, its like when you go to take something back and the retailer says no refunds just credit notes etc, thats also nonsense. there are certain rights and parameters that overide terms stipulated by companies.

                       

                      the parameters of the sales contract will be in the document you sign, the law deals in facts, not assumptions on who will be paying for the vehicle you pay a deposit for ordering and the retailer states clearly there is no refunds for non stock items.

                      You will find many shops/retailer will state restocking fees for any returns or cancelations, the same again applies of the customer is made aware at the point of contractual obligations.

                      #255082
                      Avatar photostruth
                      Participant

                        never pay a deposit…ever. if they insist, strike them off list.

                         

                        Current Car: Hyundai Kona Premium EV...2 way 40kg hoist
                        Last Car: Toyota C-HR Excel Hybrid...4 way 80kg hoist

                        #255087
                        kezo
                        Participant

                          There is no “grey area” If you sign a new vehicle sales order with a dealership you have committed to a contact for them to supply the vehicle. You are correct that the contact does not start with Motability until the PIN is entered, this is separate as this only guarantees the purchase side of the where the dealer will be paid, the exact same thing of you where taking any finance. For the sale of goods the actual contact is made when the seller (dealer) accepts the money (deposit) from the customer this forms the sale and the signed contract apply. If the contact you signed states no deposit refunds or that you are made aware of this verbally then here the terms are clear. Should anyone cancel a vehicle order where they have paid a deposit it is entirely unto the discretion of that individual dealer to refund the customer should the wish to.

                          Motability deals with the manufacturer directly, the dealer acts as a third party to Motability. Your agreeent/contract is with Motability not the dealer, as would otherwise be if you were a retail customer, thus falling under the consumer credit act with the dealer as a retail customer. Motability gives instructions on how to sign your agreement/contract, as set out below. To “sign” your Agreement with us, you will need to be with your supplying dealer. You will need to insert your PIN into our system (as directed by your supplying dealer), and this will be used in the same way as if you had used a handwritten signature. Note this Agreement is not finalised until you have inserted your PIN into our system at your local dealership.

                          I dont know why you keep quoting the motability side of ordering a vehicle. Unfortunately its irrelevant what they say here, if you sign a sales contact that is what the law would determine as contractual law. when you have motability saying the contract is with them and the manufacturer thats true on their side but almost all dealerships are independent franchises this is where your sales contract is with. its irrelevant what mototabily say upon vehicle ordering, its like when you go to take something back and the retailer says no refunds just credit notes etc, thats also nonsense. there are certain rights and parameters that overide terms stipulated by companies. the parameters of the sales contract will be in the document you sign, the law deals in facts, not assumptions on who will be paying for the vehicle you pay a deposit for ordering and the retailer states clearly there is no refunds for non stock items. You will find many shops/retailer will state restocking fees for any returns or cancelations, the same again applies of the customer is made aware at the point of contractual obligations.

                          If indeed what you say is correct, tell me why every accredited Motability dealer doen’t request a deposit or a substantial deposit a retail cutomer would pay and why do so many Motability customers cancel their order and not be penalised as a retail customer would?

                          The next time you order a Motability vehicle, ask the dealer if you are signing a purchase contract directly with them, as a retail customer would or signing an order form is agreeing the price (AP) type and colour of car for the benifit of Motability’s ordering system and a rcord for you to keep, along with any factory options you may or not have ordered!

                           

                          #255101
                          Mossfinn
                          Participant

                            @Tgreen.
                            I appreciate you think you are correct but you are not.

                            We are customers of Motobility and when we decide which car we want to have, we visit a dealer and give them our personal details including NI number. They input these details via their gateway to the Motability system and, if your eligibility is confirmed, Motobility place an order with the dealer for the car. The dealer then raises an internal sales order reserving that car. They may ask you for a deposit, at their discretion, and you can choose to pay it or not.

                            At no time do you sign a legal sales contract for the car as the agreement is between Motobility and the company, you never own the vehicle and you do not start paying until after you input the pin upon collection.
                            As someone who has previous experience with leasing/contract hire and also been the recipient of a number of Motobility cars, I’m very aware of the process.

                            #255112
                            Tgreen
                            Spectator

                              @Tgreen. I appreciate you think you are correct but you are not. We are customers of Motobility and when we decide which car we want to have, we visit a dealer and give them our personal details including NI number. They input these details via their gateway to the Motability system and, if your eligibility is confirmed, Motobility place an order with the dealer for the car. The dealer then raises an internal sales order reserving that car. They may ask you for a deposit, at their discretion, and you can choose to pay it or not. At no time do you sign a legal sales contract for the car as the agreement is between Motobility and the company, you never own the vehicle and you do not start paying until after you input the pin upon collection. As someone who has previous experience with leasing/contract hire and also been the recipient of a number of Motobility cars, I’m very aware of the process.

                               

                              It’s not that I think I am correct, it’s the law! contractual law is my speciality. and I’m afraid you are very wrong.

                              The law operates in a very strict way (facts) a new vehicle order form is a sales order, how its paid for is a different matter, if you “order” a non stock item (factory order) its entirely unto the retailer to refund or not if the vehicle order is subsequently cancelled

                              There is of course actually real life incidents of customers being refused refunds by the retailer im sure there was one on this forum and on numerous other forums for clarification for you.

                              Motability would have zero say if I retailer refuses a deposit for a vehicle ordered.

                              If it was a condition, no one would ever be asked for a deposit

                               

                              What you have described is the internal process that of motability from your understanding.

                               

                              #255116
                              Mossfinn
                              Participant

                                @Tgreen. I appreciate you think you are correct but you are not. We are customers of Motobility and when we decide which car we want to have, we visit a dealer and give them our personal details including NI number. They input these details via their gateway to the Motability system and, if your eligibility is confirmed, Motobility place an order with the dealer for the car. The dealer then raises an internal sales order reserving that car. They may ask you for a deposit, at their discretion, and you can choose to pay it or not. At no time do you sign a legal sales contract for the car as the agreement is between Motobility and the company, you never own the vehicle and you do not start paying until after you input the pin upon collection. As someone who has previous experience with leasing/contract hire and also been the recipient of a number of Motobility cars, I’m very aware of the process.

                                It’s not that I think I am correct, it’s the law! contractual law is my speciality. and I’m afraid you are very wrong. The law operates in a very strict way (facts) a new vehicle order form is a sales order, how its paid for is a different matter, if you “order” a non stock item (factory order) its entirely unto the retailer to refund or not if the vehicle order is subsequently cancelled There is of course actually real life incidents of customers being refused refunds by the retailer im sure there was one on this forum and on numerous other forums for clarification for you. Motability would have zero say if I retailer refuses a deposit for a vehicle ordered. If it was a condition, no one would ever be asked for a deposit What you have described is the internal process that of motability from your understanding.

                                 

                                Ok, please explain how I can legally place an order for a product that will belong to a third party, I will never own and I have no authority to order?

                                #255119
                                kezo
                                Participant

                                  There is of course actually real life incidents of customers being refused refunds by the retailer im sure there was one on this forum and on numerous other forums for clarification for you.

                                  The person on this forum ended up getting a refund after speaking with the sales manager.

                                  The important thing to note is, your contractual agreement is with Motability not the dealership!

                                  #255114
                                  Tgreen
                                  Spectator

                                    @Tgreen. I appreciate you think you are correct but you are not. We are customers of Motobility and when we decide which car we want to have, we visit a dealer and give them our personal details including NI number. They input these details via their gateway to the Motability system and, if your eligibility is confirmed, Motobility place an order with the dealer for the car. The dealer then raises an internal sales order reserving that car. They may ask you for a deposit, at their discretion, and you can choose to pay it or not. At no time do you sign a legal sales contract for the car as the agreement is between Motobility and the company, you never own the vehicle and you do not start paying until after you input the pin upon collection. As someone who has previous experience with leasing/contract hire and also been the recipient of a number of Motobility cars, I’m very aware of the process.

                                     

                                    There is no “grey area” If you sign a new vehicle sales order with a dealership you have committed to a contact for them to supply the vehicle. You are correct that the contact does not start with Motability until the PIN is entered, this is separate as this only guarantees the purchase side of the where the dealer will be paid, the exact same thing of you where taking any finance. For the sale of goods the actual contact is made when the seller (dealer) accepts the money (deposit) from the customer this forms the sale and the signed contract apply. If the contact you signed states no deposit refunds or that you are made aware of this verbally then here the terms are clear. Should anyone cancel a vehicle order where they have paid a deposit it is entirely unto the discretion of that individual dealer to refund the customer should the wish to.

                                    Motability deals with the manufacturer directly, the dealer acts as a third party to Motability. Your agreeent/contract is with Motability not the dealer, as would otherwise be if you were a retail customer, thus falling under the consumer credit act with the dealer as a retail customer. Motability gives instructions on how to sign your agreement/contract, as set out below. To “sign” your Agreement with us, you will need to be with your supplying dealer. You will need to insert your PIN into our system (as directed by your supplying dealer), and this will be used in the same way as if you had used a handwritten signature. Note this Agreement is not finalised until you have inserted your PIN into our system at your local dealership.

                                    I dont know why you keep quoting the motability side of ordering a vehicle. Unfortunately its irrelevant what they say here, if you sign a sales contact that is what the law would determine as contractual law. when you have motability saying the contract is with them and the manufacturer thats true on their side but almost all dealerships are independent franchises this is where your sales contract is with. its irrelevant what mototabily say upon vehicle ordering, its like when you go to take something back and the retailer says no refunds just credit notes etc, thats also nonsense. there are certain rights and parameters that overide terms stipulated by companies. the parameters of the sales contract will be in the document you sign, the law deals in facts, not assumptions on who will be paying for the vehicle you pay a deposit for ordering and the retailer states clearly there is no refunds for non stock items. You will find many shops/retailer will state restocking fees for any returns or cancelations, the same again applies of the customer is made aware at the point of contractual obligations.

                                    If indeed what you say is correct, tell me why every accredited Motability dealer doen’t request a deposit or a substantial deposit a retail cutomer would pay and why do so many Motability customers cancel their order and not be penalised as a retail customer would? The next time you order a Motability vehicle, ask the dealer if you are signing a purchase contract directly with them, as a retail customer would or signing an order form is agreeing the price (AP) type and colour of car for the benifit of Motability’s ordering system and a rcord for you to keep, along with any factory options you may or not have ordered!

                                     

                                    Firstly there is no such thing as a non accredited motability dealer, so I don’t know why you would say “accredited” however we are talking on a thread where the OP has confirmed the exactly what you said would not happen

                                     

                                    Vehicle deposit required to order the vehicle.

                                    #255161
                                    Avatar photocoruro
                                    Participant

                                      Should a customer seek the money back after cancelling the order, a deposit does not mean it is automatically non-refundable, only the T&C’s stated within any order form that you sign, which says otherwise (contract)

                                      So if you sign for the dealerships order  (headed paper with dealerships name) and it states within their T&C’s deposit is non refundable then that is what you’ve signed and agreed to, whether or not the order is directly with motability ‘at the end’ when it is delivered.

                                      Your order form has T&C’s on from the dealership and may contain contractual agreements regarding any deposit tied directly to the dealership with whom you place the order.

                                      Best to check, they may state deposit is for admin fee’s of changing the order/ cancelling (if within their T&C’s)

                                      If this is the case you may be able to ask the dealership to order another vehicle, make or model with said dealership/ franchise and transfer that deposit over as a way to get round loosing the deposit.

                                      I have paid a £250 deposit on my recent order, I was told this comes off the AP when vehicle arrives but within the T&C’s it states if I cancel the order I forfeit the deposit. It refers to me as the ‘purchaser’.

                                      Other dealerships I have used haven’t requested a deposit.

                                      The order form states: Customer/supply to (your name or DLA/PIP persons name) then Financed by/ Invoice to: Motability.

                                      When I signed the order form I signed on the dotted line that states : Purchasers signature, (going back to the T&C’s where it refers to ‘purchaser’ regarding deposit) therefore i forfeit the deposit if I cancel the order it relates to me because within the contract, I signed the dotted line for the order next to ‘purchasers signature’.

                                      When we go to the dealerships and pay the AP and input the PIN, motability act like a finance company basically. You still have a contract (the order you signed with dealerships name on) to rely upon should the vehicle become faulty, and you can rely on CRA 2015.

                                      Motability act on your behalf as they ‘own’ the vehicle as such.

                                      I had a faulty vehicle, took it back to dealerships, wait time for part for fault was 5 months, I used CRA 2015 checked dealerships T&C’s and motability T&C’s and motability do not cover optional extras and state a contract from dealership, this didn’t happen so I chased dealership for optional extra refund as vehicle was handed back to them, they agreed on the basis I signed a non-liability form, which I was happy to as I just wanted the money back, and that was that.

                                      So as well as having T&C’s for the dealership order contract you also have T&C’s for your financing contract/lease with Motability who ‘own’ the vehicle.

                                       

                                      #255363
                                      cazzab71
                                      Participant

                                        Thanks for answering my question really helpful and good information I did put the £100 deposit towards the advance payment, hopefully I won’t have to cancel and I won’t need to ask for my deposit back, current car seat ateca xcellence lux 1.6 in velvet red and new car ordered xcellence lux 1.5 tsi same colour, I’m not sure whether to change colour to white, didn’t have much choice not even blue, but I do love the velvet red, dealer did say he would update if they were any other colours but I doubt it, as i don’t think they will be making or updating the seat ateca as it will be the seat cupra , which is a separate brand.

                                        #255376
                                        MickC
                                        Participant

                                          I know who gets my PIP money every month its Motability not the Dealership.

                                           

                                          If i was asked to pay a deposit i would use a credit card and if they did’nt return the deposit if i changed my mind then you can always do a “chargeback”.

                                          #255377
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            When I signed the order form I signed on the dotted line that states : Purchasers signature, (going back to the T&C’s where it refers to ‘purchaser’

                                            Please explain, how you are the purchaser of a Motability vehicle, you lease?

                                             

                                            #255378
                                            Ioniq
                                            Participant

                                              Jeez, what a kerfuffle over nothing.

                                              There are 2 order forms, one from Motability.

                                              Another is the factory order form from the dealership. I signed one to oder a factory vehicle, and on that order was the owner, Motability sale, and the price was the AP.

                                              This order form is required to initiate the factory order. The vehicle was ordered by this form before my renewal window opened. Given the long wait times for factory orders, some dealers like to do it this way.

                                              As for a deposit requested by the dealer, it must be done in writing and signed by the customer.

                                              The deposit scheme must be ok with motability.

                                              #255385
                                              Mossfinn
                                              Participant

                                                Jeez, what a kerfuffle over nothing. There are 2 order forms, one from Motability. Another is the factory order form from the dealership. I signed one to oder a factory vehicle, and on that order was the owner, Motability sale, and the price was the AP. This order form is required to initiate the factory order. The vehicle was ordered by this form before my renewal window opened. Given the long wait times for factory orders, some dealers like to do it this way. As for a deposit requested by the dealer, it must be done in writing and signed by the customer. The deposit scheme must be ok with motability.

                                                Well put. I’m amazed by some of the claims on here by “experts”

                                                I didn’t sign anything when I ordered my last car and , because of an AP drop, the dealer cancelled my Motobility order and re ordered without touching the internal sales order.
                                                If anyone cares to log onto their online account, press the leasing link and open the PDF, it shows that the owner of the car is Motobility Operations, we are the hirer from Motobility and the dealer is the supplier.
                                                If Motobility is the owner then we cannot enter into any legal agreement with a third party for a product we don’t own.
                                                The deposit is an agreement between you and the dealer to hold a reservation, similar to a restaurant table etc and if you cancel is subject to the understanding between the two of you. It does not prevent you from withdrawing.
                                                I think there is too much argument of principle and not reality.

                                                #255389
                                                des
                                                Participant

                                                  Either this is really simple or I’m really simple as I just ordered a car last week.

                                                  Mobility say I can order a new car so I do.

                                                  I go to dealer who checks with mobility that I can order. They say yes.

                                                  I pick a car I like and sign a contract with dealer,* I now have a contract with dealer.

                                                  Car gets built and arrives at the shop, I go and check it and agree that all is fine so enter my pin.

                                                  By entering my pin I end dealer contract and enter a new one with mobility.

                                                  * The dealer is well within their rights to ask for a deposit.

                                                  If I want to pay a deposit and how I pay it to give me some protection is up to me.

                                                   

                                                  • This reply was modified 6 months ago by des.
                                                  • This reply was modified 6 months ago by des.
                                                  • This reply was modified 6 months ago by des.
                                                  #255400
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Jeez, what a kerfuffle over nothing. There are 2 order forms, one from Motability. Another is the factory order form from the dealership. I signed one to oder a factory vehicle, and on that order was the owner, Motability sale, and the price was the AP. This order form is required to initiate the factory order. The vehicle was ordered by this form before my renewal window opened. Given the long wait times for factory orders, some dealers like to do it this way. As for a deposit requested by the dealer, it must be done in writing and signed by the customer. The deposit scheme must be ok with motability.

                                                    Well put. I’m amazed by some of the claims on here by “experts” I didn’t sign anything when I ordered my last car and , because of an AP drop, the dealer cancelled my Motobility order and re ordered without touching the internal sales order. If anyone cares to log onto their online account, press the leasing link and open the PDF, it shows that the owner of the car is Motobility Operations, we are the hirer from Motobility and the dealer is the supplier. If Motobility is the owner then we cannot enter into any legal agreement with a third party for a product we don’t own. The deposit is an agreement between you and the dealer to hold a reservation, similar to a restaurant table etc and if you cancel is subject to the understanding between the two of you. It does not prevent you from withdrawing. I think there is too much argument of principle and not reality.

                                                    Agreed!

                                                    The only reference of “deposit” Motabililty makes, refers to the advance payment or part of, if the dealer requests this.

                                                    The reason no one will ever have to pay a cancellation fee or loose their deposit, is because it would not be legally enforceable.  At no stage do we ever enter into a legally binding contract with the dealer as we are not the “purchasers”. The only legally binding contract that we enter into, is with Motability Operations once we have entered the PIN on collection day. Dealers may try it on and withhold any depost (if you payed one) but will soon back down once challenged with legall action or small claims court. A dealer would have to prove in a court of law, that they have lost out financially, which would be very difficult indeed because (a) you are not the purchaser (b) They would be financially better off selling the car to a retail customer.

                                                    The only time an enforeable contract is made between you and the dealer, is if you were to choose additional extra’s, such as factory fitted options, which do “not” form part of your agreement with Motability Operations and are treated seperately.

                                                    If you are asked to pay a deposit upfront, other than for optional extras save yourself the hassle and place an order with a different dealer/group.

                                                    For those who think I and others are wron’t, I recommend you get a free 3o minute consultation with a solicitor!

                                                     

                                                    #255403
                                                    kezo
                                                    Participant

                                                      Either this is really simple or I’m really simple as I just ordered a car last week. Mobility say I can order a new car so I do. I go to dealer who checks with mobility that I can order. They say yes. I pick a car I like and sign a contract with dealer,* I now have a contract with dealer. Car gets built and arrives at the shop, I go and check it and agree that all is fine so enter my pin. By entering my pin I end dealer contract and enter a new one with mobility. * The dealer is well within their rights to ask for a deposit. If I want to pay a deposit and how I pay it to give me some protection is up to me.

                                                      Des lol.

                                                      Motability buy their vehicles directly from the manufacturer , because we as Motability customers can’t order directly from the manufacturer, we as Motability customers have to order our vehicle from a car dealership, but it is more of an admin role than a sales visit. The dealer acts on behalf of Motability, to which they receive a admin fee for doing so. At no time does a Motability customer enter into a “purchase” contract with the dealer. The only time a “purchase” contract is entered with the dealer is if the Motability customer wants to “purchase” factory fitted options, that form not part of your Motability agrrement. The only contract that a Motability customer makes (other than factory options) is a lease agreement with Motability operations upon entering the PIN, which acts as a digital signature.  Also, not all manufacturers  include Motability sales as part of a car dealers targets.

                                                       

                                                      We as

                                                      #255460
                                                      Avatar photocoruro
                                                      Participant

                                                        Jeez, what a kerfuffle over nothing. There are 2 order forms, one from Motability. Another is the factory order form from the dealership. I signed one to oder a factory vehicle, and on that order was the owner, Motability sale, and the price was the AP. This order form is required to initiate the factory order. The vehicle was ordered by this form before my renewal window opened. Given the long wait times for factory orders, some dealers like to do it this way. As for a deposit requested by the dealer, it must be done in writing and signed by the customer. The deposit scheme must be ok with motability.

                                                        Well put. I’m amazed by some of the claims on here by “experts” I didn’t sign anything when I ordered my last car and , because of an AP drop, the dealer cancelled my Motobility order and re ordered without touching the internal sales order. If anyone cares to log onto their online account, press the leasing link and open the PDF, it shows that the owner of the car is Motobility Operations, we are the hirer from Motobility and the dealer is the supplier. If Motobility is the owner then we cannot enter into any legal agreement with a third party for a product we don’t own. The deposit is an agreement between you and the dealer to hold a reservation, similar to a restaurant table etc and if you cancel is subject to the understanding between the two of you. It does not prevent you from withdrawing. I think there is too much argument of principle and not reality.

                                                        Agreed! The only reference of “deposit” Motabililty makes, refers to the advance payment or part of, if the dealer requests this. The reason no one will ever have to pay a cancellation fee or loose their deposit, is because it would not be legally enforceable. At no stage do we ever enter into a legally binding contract with the dealer as we are not the “purchasers”. The only legally binding contract that we enter into, is with Motability Operations once we have entered the PIN on collection day. Dealers may try it on and withhold any depost (if you payed one) but will soon back down once challenged with legall action or small claims court. A dealer would have to prove in a court of law, that they have lost out financially, which would be very difficult indeed because (a) you are not the purchaser (b) They would be financially better off selling the car to a retail customer. The only time an enforeable contract is made between you and the dealer, is if you were to choose additional extra’s, such as factory fitted options, which do “not” form part of your agreement with Motability Operations and are treated seperately. If you are asked to pay a deposit upfront, other than for optional extras save yourself the hassle and place an order with a different dealer/group. For those who think I and others are wron’t, I recommend you get a free 3o minute consultation with a solicitor!


                                                        @kezo
                                                        – I am not the purchaser on a vehicle I lease because I do not have the vehicle yet (essential in what I am saying) and the contract/order form is the dealership’s paperwork not MB’s paperwork.

                                                        What I did do was sign the paperwork as a purchaser of the ‘order’ for a vehicle I do not yet have, however once that order is then finalised by hand over of the car; be it lease by finance firms or MB then that transfers to them being the purchaser (MB)

                                                        If I sign something that states on the form ‘purchaser’ and my signature is next to it, it references me within the T&C’s when it states ‘purchaser’ whether or not I am the purchaser at the end of the process (when the car is handed over and the pin is put in) Because it is factual that I have signed my name next to that specific use of wording within that contract or “order agreement”.

                                                        To explain this way on how doing so actually benefitted me:

                                                        I signed the order document stating purchaser on my last vehicle , because I signed this order agreement and I ordered optional extras on a faulty vehicle, no where within that agreement (the same one that lists deposits being non refundable) did it state that my optional extras would also be non refundable should fault arise given CRA 2015 .

                                                        The contract or order agreement is not only for the purposes of the business/dealership but also for the customer too.

                                                        I relied upon that contract when I had a faulty vehicle. MB wouldn’t intervene in regards to the Optional extra payments (within their T&C’s), I relied solely upon that ‘contract’ where I signed as ‘purchaser’ the CRA 2015 a few piece’s of online forum ‘evidence’ to enable me to get my optional extra money back.

                                                        My argument of legal facts to get refunded for the optional extras went direct to VW compliance team in Germany and it was agreed that no separate contract was made in relation to the optional extras and I would be refunded but they didn’t agree to ‘any fault’  even though it was evidenced by words ‘faulty part’ on a video vehicle check by the dealership technician and I specifically used the CRA 2015, and the threatening of small claims court, I couldn’t be bothered with another court case as I was already in the midst of one and agreed to sign just to be done with it, it is after all what I was seeking.

                                                        I relied upon that specific document that I signed with the dealership when I placed the order that referred to me as the ‘purchaser’, because apparently the optional extra charges go direct to the manufacturer and the AP goes to MB, hence no involvement from MB in regards to optional extras as per their T&C’s.

                                                        It’s best for all MB customers to check especially, if your not comfortable handing money over you may loose or have to fight to get back, and always ask the question too.. what if I cancel my order what happens to my deposit?

                                                        Let’s face it the majority of MB customers are vulnerable in one aspect or another in life.

                                                        This forum should be to support each other not to say who’s right or wrong.

                                                        I run a business and have T&C’s for my customers which is specific to deposits.

                                                        Once they sign the document that T&C is enforceable so long as we as a business have complied with other regulations and laws that would allow the T&C to be enforceable such as those defined within the CRA 2015 (fit for purpose, as described, of satisfactory quality)

                                                        We are also considering the possibility that different dealerships/franchises will have different forms and different T&C’s.

                                                        Maybe it should just be specific to being a Motability order, to prevent them of ways they can get around taking money from people who are already vulnerable.

                                                        Don’t get me wrong; I have studied law, worked in retail and in a car dealership and then on for well known corporations in the UK to now running my own business.

                                                        I have successfully got my money back using said ‘contract’ for prior car from order with MB.

                                                        I have succeeded in every single claim I have ever made regarding refunds including the whirlpool tumble dryer farce where I actually had a washing machine and tumble dryer both faulty at the same time and I got current retail price refunded rather than the price I paid (£980 back for £450 worth of goods).

                                                        Honestly, I am known to get things ‘free’ and know how to get my money back! But it’s all about knowing what you are signing when you are signing it and using it to your advantage.

                                                        Should I wish to find a way to get my deposit back, believe me when I say it, yes I will, where there’s a will there’s a way!

                                                        From my experience and what I can evidence is that the document i’ve personally signed for MB orders through a dealerships is a dealership order agreement where I signed for the order to be processed on the system, my signature is next to the wording ‘purchasers signature’ the meaning of purchasers signature and the definition of that would be down to dealership to prove what is meant by it if not already defined within their T&C’s, but at the time of signing I would have reasonably known it formed a contract with me ‘purchaser’ to enable the dealership to place an order which then in turn meant the T&C’s that correspond to the document would define me therein as the ‘purchaser’ . Whether or not I purchase the vehicle in the end or the means of how the vehicle is purchased would not; at the time of the document being signed, be considered as it is not yet relevant, there is intent but the deal is not ‘done’ (until pin is put in and transferred to being both MB contract and dealership)

                                                        This includes where a deposit can be used for ‘consideration’ – a good, profit or service.

                                                        My personal business T&C’s state ‘customer’ but within the parameters of the T&C’s it states – Customer ‘you’ referenced by the persons name and address on the document and therein of the T&C’s ‘you’ refers to the customer whose name and address is on the document.

                                                        Knowledge is power and to know what your’e signing before you sign it is essential for everyone.

                                                        I mean other peoples orders on here may not have those T&C’s about deposits or their dealership might not take deposits, I think what matters is that people are aware if they are paying a deposit what it could mean if they cancel and being prepared for that.

                                                        Really there should be something in place to prevent this; because again our needs can change in an instant and mean we need to cancel an order and change vehicle, and I agree that its not fair for someone to loose their deposit, I would kick up a fuss to get deposit back even if I knew what I signed but that’s just me and some people simply don’t have the capacity, will power or strength.

                                                        Knowing what you are fighting before you fight it is key.

                                                        We fight a hard enough system as it is.

                                                        I have a child with SEND (non verbal/ SLCN, ASD,SPD,ADHD,ARFID) and know other parents of children with SEND and I help them out (successfully may I add) to get the help they need including things like DLA and PIP and Tribunals.

                                                        We simply must be prepared for battle, at all times.

                                                        My post isn’t intended to argue, it’s intended to inform of my experience and what is relevant to me.

                                                        As both a consumer and a business, when you sign your name to a ‘purchase’ ‘order’ ‘contract’ whether or not you are the intended ‘owner’ ‘purchaser’ ‘user’ you still have rights, but so does the business or person you sign the document to, again its about the battle!.

                                                        what makes a contract legally binding ?

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