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OK, coming into this debate, here is my two penn’orth ….
In the situation as described, this seems to me to be less about Motability and more about the dealership the customer is buying from. We do/did fall into the category the question is about. Our current car, an Audi Q4, was bought via Motability and adapted with a wheelchair swivel seat for my wife which would mean it meets the HMRC criteria for VAT free purchase. We also added to the order a Tech Pack which was an Audi optional extra not offered by Motability.
The total cost comprised the car’s advance payment + wheelchair swivel seat adaptation + Audi Q4 Tech Pack optional extra. That total cost was paid to the Audi dealership. Furthermore, all discussions about the Tech Pack were exclusively with the dealership, not Motability, and the Motability account and paperwork makes no mention of a Tech Pack (I’m fairly certain that is the case).
So I believe discussions about whether an optional extra such as the Tech Pack should be inclusive or exclusive of VAT should be had with the dealership, not Motability. We did, in fact, ask the dealership for a discount on the Tech Pack but was told that was not possible. However, it did not occur to me to ask whether, in our circumstances, the option should be VAT free. I guess if it had, the dealership would have sought clarification from HMRC (and possibly Motability) and we would then have benefited, or not, from a reduced cost and I would be able to answer the initial query with more clarity. As it was, I ended up paying full price for the option, inclusive of VAT.
Incidentally, I don’t believe the dealership was pulling a fast one here, or at least I like to think they weren’t. More likely was simply that they hadn’t come across this situation before and were as clueless as I was at the time.
We live and learn ….
P.S. I do agree that Motability ought to clarify this through their FAQs section or somewhere for the benefit of their (few) future customers who meet these HMRC conditions.
Now don’t get me wrong, I am playing Devil’s Advocate here, but that is precisely the sort of car that gets the uninformed up in arms about the Motability scheme!
Thanks for all your replies Guys, particularly POPS who has taken the trouble to consult his son. My wife has said she very much appreciates your advice but has decided the effort involved is not worth our time. Guess I’ll just have to fly out to Florida for a short break to buy it for her directly
Surely this is a lose lose situation. Even if Motability decided to allow a car to be purchased at lease end to keep the peace, or were forced to do so due to contractual obligations, they have every right to set the price and could inflate it to make a point:
“Hey, what’s the top book price for this car?”
“OK then, lets stick another five grand onto that and offer at that price!!”
Not saying they would, but they could!
On the plus side, the bings and bongs are very subtle and very easy to turn off altogether if you want to.
Are you saying they can be turned off permanently and don’t need to be switched off each time the car is started, which is the case on our Audi Q4?
Hi Again,
I will cover our wheelchair swivel seat choice in more detail, however, the deal breaker for many I expect will be the cost as we paid Motability close to £9K for it on top of the AP for the car itself.
Hi Glos Guy, we had a person hoist for three and a half years fitted into a Motability VW Tiguan. Like your wife, my wife was never really that keen, feeling quite self-conscious using it and in truth, only used it for doctors, dentists, opticians and hospital visits, maybe 20 times in total in all the time we had it. We never found it very easy to use although like most things, I’m sure the more you use it the easier it would get.
As you probably know, there are three parts to it. The post that is permanently fitted into the car, the swivel arm that is removable and the sling the user sits in. The post sits inside the car close to the door hinges and doesn’t really get in the way. It is braced by a strut that runs across from half way up the post to the floor at the other side of the passenger compartment near the transmission tunnel. Both the post and this strut are bolted to the floor which I suspect wouldn’t work that well with an electric car that had its batteries under the floor. The post and strut are not really that obtrusive for front seat passengers as their feet can sit under the strut, however I have wondered what damage it would do to their lower shins in a front or rear end crash!!
What is fundamental to the hoist’s usability though is the dimensions of the front door aperture, specifically the distance between the sill and roof, the distance between the top of the seat base and the roof and the distance between the front of the seat and the front of the door opening. Clearly, if an able bodied person can get themselves into the car it should be possible for someone in a sling to be able to get in also. However, whilst the able bodied person will go in one leg at a time and maybe lean their upper body forwards, these movements are not possible for the person in a sling so having sufficient legroom and headroom is crucial. We actually had a seat runner extension fitted at our cost which enabled the seat to be pushed further back to provide more legroom.
So the first stage is getting the sling positioned properly. My wife cannot self-support and has no core strength so this wasn’t very easy. We needed something she could hold onto while she leaned forward allowing me to slide the sling down between her back and the wheelchair backrest (not too high and not too low). Next, I had to lift each leg in turn and fold the wings of the sling under her legs bringing the straps that attach to the swivel arm up between her legs. This is easier if the sides of the wheelchair will fold back or can be removed. At least this stage can be done in the dry.
The next stage is to open the car door, push the seat right back, hook the swivel arm onto the post and plug in the power which is rather like a PC monitor plug. The swivel arm is actually in two parts, one slotting into the other and the arm itself is fairly heavy. This is the stage at which the clock starts ticking if it is raining heavily!
Next is to wheel the wheelchair out to the car. We found it needed to be close to the open car door and the footrests just shy of the sill. The swivel arm connects to the sling’s four straps (one either side and two between her legs) and she was then lifted just enough to move the wheelchair out of the way to give me enough room to manoeuvre her into the car. This felt quite disconcerting to her when the wheelchair was moved. The steps I took were to:
- swing her close to the seat
- lift her legs into the car
- raise her up as much as possible while still allowing her enough room to get her head into the car
- I would then need to lift her to maximum height the hoist allowed to give her enough clearance to position her over the car seat (she also had an inflatable cushion on the seat so needed clearance for that also)
- lower her onto the seat/cushion, sometimes lifting and lowering a couple of times until she was comfortably in the right position
- disconnect the sling from the swivel arm and put on her seatbelt
- pull the seat forwards a bit and put her legs into a comfortable position.
I would then unplug and lift off the swivel arm and put that and the wheelchair into the boot. Unfortunately, on the Tiguan anyway, it was not possible to leave the swivel arm in situ – the door would not close. The sling is left on in the car. At this stage the door can be closed but as you can see, it does take a bit of time manoeuvring which isn’t much fun in the rain!
Exiting the car is pretty much a reverse of the operation. I did tend to put the wheelchair in place before manoeuvring her out although having somewhere to stand whilst doing that was a bit tricky. One thing I would say is that the Tiguan is quite a tall car but even so, there was only just enough headroom even with the seat at its lowest position.
So in conclusion:
Pros
- it’s a fairly cheap solution for someone who is wheelchair reliant and doesn’t want to go down the WAV route
- minimal alterations to the car means able bodied passengers are not compromised (though watch those shins!)
- the removable hoist parts take little extra room up in the car
- being a substantial adaptation, it is likely that the lease could be extended to five years if that was required
Cons
- it’s not the most elegant way of getting the wheelchair user in and out
- the whole process is quite awkward and time consuming although practice would make it easier over time
In the end, my wife decided she wanted something different so we went with a wheelchair swivel seat in an Audi Q4 which I’ll cover in a separate posting shortly.
Hope that is of some use …..
I read on a Facebook site that when it gets beyond the middle of the month prior to plate number change i.e. mid February and mid August that Motability tell the dealerships to hold off registering a car until the new month for the small increase in second hand value the newer plate number provides. Does anyone know whether this is in fact the case?
Also, if the car has to go offsite to an Adaptations fitter, does that tend to go on trade plates or after registration?
So, I’ve been following this thread with interest. Much of what has been said in favour of the Enyaq is undeniably true and I can understand why so many folk are choosing one for their next car. For me, personally, I went for the Audi Q4 which is currently on order.
One small factor is that I am a bit of a traditionalist and cannot abide the tablet style infotainment systems seemingly stuck onto the dash as an afterthought which is the route most manufacturers appear to be going. This is also true of VW, not only with their EVs but the new Tiguan MK3 is the same. I do agree that the ID.4 interior is very bland and is a turn off for me, this coming from a family that has had VWs exclusively for 20+ years. Also, I watched several comparison reviews between the VW ID.4 and Audi Q4 and the Audi came out on top by a long way in most of them (admittedly those including the Enyaq tended to put that in first place, largely due to its value for money). However, much of the extra kit on the Enyaq is ‘nice to have’ as far as I’m concerned and I think I can manage without the umbrella and ice scraper the Skoda offers
Due to my wife’s medical condition, by far the most important criteria in choosing our next car is the comfort and smoothness of its ride and this was the main reason we went with the Audi Q4 Sport with its Comfort Suspension and generous tyre wall depths, to the extent that even if the S Line had been available on the scheme, the fact that it has lowered Sport Suspension and larger wheels which means less rubber meant we would still have gone with the Sport trim level. I just hope they haven’t tinkered with the Comfort Suspension too much in the recent upgrade.
Incidentally, I seem to remember one or two posts a while ago commenting that a shortfall in production of the APP550 motor was one reason for the VW and Audi EV manufacturing delays in December. I haven’t read anything recently to suggest whether this has been resolved one way or another.
Mind you, so much has changed with Motability rules recently such as not being able to buy the car at the end of the lease and restrictions on lease extensions that it would be worthwhile double checking with them to be sure this is still allowed
Actually, I’m not sure that’s true.
I asked Motability about the hoists (person and boot) in our current lease car:
“Just out of interest, what will happen to the hoists we will be returning with the Volkswagen Tiguan as and when a replacement car with new adaptations is delivered? Are they scrapped or re-used by Motability or the adaptation specialist? It would seem a shame not to re-cycle them, given their ‘as new’ condition”
I got the following reply:
“I can confirm that when your Tiguan is returned, it will then be sold on with all adaptations still in tact, therefore we hope that someone else will benefit from them. The only time they may be removed from the vehicle would be if they are no longer safe to use. Alternatively, you and your wife are able to have them removed them from the vehicle, should you wish to use or sell them, however you would be responsible for any costs to do this“
