Whatever happened to Brexit?

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  • #111208 Reply
    brydo

    We are now into April and its likely there will be no negotiations until this pandemic is over. What are we looking at, could we survive on WTO rules, will we ask for an extension?

    I think the obvious option is to agree an extension possibly to next March to give both sides a chance to come to an agreement. I think the German’s will be very keen to get a deal.

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 30 total)
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  • #111210 Reply
    joss
    Participant

    There needs to be an extension IMHO. The default WTO just isn’t going to cut it.

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
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    #111221 Reply
    Briggsy
    Participant

    An extension. surely and for a couple of years too..this is a hole of gargantuan proportions and to go it alone would be folly.

    #111242 Reply
    Tharg

    Reckon it’ll need more than a few months. The economies of Europe (and I include the UK in that, geographically at least) are going to be pretty much wrecked. Will takes ages to put them back together. In the motor industry, I suggest we order VAG management to get it going again.

    #111807 Reply
    brydo

    As a result of the virus are we in a better negotiating position now than before.

    We are in a dire financial position as a result of covid 19 (the 19 comes from 2019 which is when this strain was discovered, it is NOT the 19th strain of the virus) but countries like Spain and Italy are much worse off than us.

    Will the virus make people realise that we are all in this together and come to a fair and amicable agreement? We will soon find out as no extension has been agreed so the clock is ticking.

    #111810 Reply
    POPS
    Moderator

    I hope that Covid 19 has made the government realise that we need to maintain close ties with Europe, as this pandemic has shown how dependent we are going to be going forward on the good will and cooperation of our neighbours.

    #126485 Reply
    Brydo

    Well guys brexit is coming to a final conclusion but what will happen in the next week or so.

    DEAL OR NO DEAL?

    #126489 Reply
    joss
    Participant

    In all honesty Brydo I do not know who to believe regarding negotiations. Or rather what the papers report.

    I think there will be some sort of a deal over fishery and subsidies are the main sticking points as I see it. So only time will tell. We need a deal. The country needs a deal.

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's
    "It is a great ability to be able to conceal one's ability."

    #126492 Reply
    Brydo

    Joss thank goodness you replied I thought everyone had left for the night lol.

    I think you’re right they seem to be the main sticking points even though fishing, in monatory terms, is really small potato.

    Subsidies is massive and, I think, is the real sticking point.

    The next week will be interesting with much tooing and frowing going on, I think a deal will be done but I’m not certain.

    #126511 Reply
    joss
    Participant

    You know me my friend 👍 One thing for sure it’s going to be interesting seeing how it plays out. So 🍿🍻at the ready. I sent yours via uber. Might need to go in micro wave to warm up

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's
    "It is a great ability to be able to conceal one's ability."

    #126512 Reply
    joss
    Participant

    for Brydo

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's
    "It is a great ability to be able to conceal one's ability."

    #126527 Reply
    Brydo

    I’ve noticed his you tube clips before but never listened to one. It’s right down to the wire so we will know the outcome soon enough.

    We don’t seem to be getting any info from the main men just tit bits that may or may not be true.

    Its amazing how under the radar it’s been considering all the fuss it created in the first place

    #127151 Reply
    Brydo

    Well we’ve left without a deal, BJ has decreed there is no point in further talks unless the EU changes its position. Lord Frost and Michel Barnier were due to meet in Londinium on Monday but BJ has said “no” ……………….. they will call each other instead.

    So there we have it, a firm-ish No Deal from our glorious leader, until Monday at least.

    #127186 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I have no confidence that we won’t be sold down the river and it’ll be another year or two before the truth of an almighty fudge is revealed..

    #127243 Reply
    Brydo

    Yes but what does that mean, “getting sold down the river” for you could be the best thing ever to me. Are you suggesting a deal will be done but the facts won’t be revealed until further down the line?

    As you know I was totally against brexit but we are where we are, and now it is unlikely to be changed the focus must be getting the best outcome for these four nations of ours.

    Is a no deal brexit the best outcome, almost certainly not, at least initially, or do we give access to Scottish, sorry, British waters for the rest of the EU to plunder and get a deal?

    #127247 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Yup a deal will be done and we’ll be told how good it is for you, Brydo who didn’t want Brexit and also how good it is for me who did.  Merkel’s words ” I know that Great Britain aims for a certain measure of independence” sends shivers down my spine. The gall of the woman!

    #127382 Reply
    Brydo

    This will be a big week for BJ, he has dealt his final “big card” in this game of poker let’s see if it works.

     

    #127383 Reply
    Brydo

    The stock market hasn’t reacted to Fridays announcement, I expected a rather large fall, but all U.K. indices are up, it’s as if they don’t believe the PM, strange lol.

    #127513 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    What happened to Brexit – well it happened, it’s done,we are an independent nation again.

    No point in us dragging up any remain or leave arguments Brydo,that ship has sailed, Brexit happened in January this year, and we are quickly coming to the end of the ‘Transition Period’,which some described as the soft landing zone, during which arrangements would be made for the different relationship.

    The big one of course was negotiating a free trade arrangement , but obstacle after obstacle has been put in the way, and the deadline for arranging this free trade deal’ has passed without agreement .

    Therefore, the PM (and we must remember & acknowledge , without bringing party politics in to it ) with a huge mandate, primarily because of his support for Brexit, has stated that unless the EU is more flexible, we will leave the Transition Period with no deal.

    The media vultures of course are circling, desperate for
    something ,anything,to report (or usually exaggerate ) upon, so we will likely see lots of conflicting stories from (mysterious) sources’ within the EU’ and insiders in no 10
    all of which need to be taken with a large Pinch of Salt ( before they impose some ridiculous tariffs on it )

    The French demand , (note not ‘request’) for the continued rape and pillage of our coastal waters( 84% of the ‘cod catch’ in the English Channel for instance ) is undoubtedly the major sticking point ( it is more symbolic than valuable , compared to overall trade , on both sides ) but French greed could see them being refused access in a no deal scenario, – so,no deal with 0% of fish quota is better than a bad deal ( in the EU eyes ) of 84% albeit reducing over time , is it?

    The EU top brass can’t seem to grasp that we have reverted to being a Sovereign State and that it is our choice to allow or not allow access to our waters, not something they can demand.

    However, we all realise that there is no such thing as a free lunch, nor of course a free ‘free trade agreement’ and that we will have to pay, ( probably partly in fish )
    , but as the EU are now frequently quoting themselves ‘not at any price’ !

    #127521 Reply
    Brydo

    Mike I agree with almost everything you say but there would be a discussion on whether BJ was voted in on his brexit stance or on an anti Corbyn ticket (its likely a bit of both).

    With regards to brexit it I agree its done and dusted but the repricutions of the vote may not be over.

    As you know I am all for Scottish independence and the polls up here are routinely over 50% in favour. If the SNP get an overall majority in next years elections a vote on independence will follow.

    The reason for the increase in those supporting independence are Brexit and BJ. BJ, to use a good English word, is a “twat” and many up here can’t believe he is PM, I include myself and all of my family in that, all of who are anti Scottish Independence.

    So in the mean time a stance was, and needed to be, taken so well done Dominic Cummings for forcing BJ to stand up for the uk.

    I am really looking forward to the next six months as it is a momentous time in our live but I dare anyone to say they know what’s going to happen.

    I would like to say welcome back to the forum Mike 700 I’ve missed your insightful contributions and well thought out positions.

    #127544 Reply
    Georgie

    A sovereign state (sometimes called an independent state) has the following qualities:

    Space or territory that has internationally recognised boundaries (UK always had that in the EU)

    People who live there on an ongoing basis (UK always had that in the EU)

    Regulations governing foreign and domestic trade (UK always had that in the EU)

    The ability to issue legal tender that is recognised across boundaries (UK always had that in the EU)

    An internationally recognised government that provides public services and police power and has the right to make treaties, wage war, and take other actions on behalf of its people (UK always had that in the EU)

    Sovereignty, meaning that no other state should have power over the country’s territory (UK always had that in the EU)

    We also had 27 other countries to Trade with using Deals adapted and honed over 45 years, a stable Economy, a stable Currency, instant access to EU Terrorism and Crime Prevention and Detection Services, International Science Funding, International Business Investment (we’re going to have to compensate Japanese car manufacturers £millions if we Leave without a very good ‘Deal’), European Standards for Food Quality, Animal Welfare, Human Rights . . .

    Now we have NO Trade Deals with ANY country of weight, but lovely lovely Trade Deals with Chile, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Norway, Iceland, Israel and Palestine, Switzerland, the Faroe Islands, Madagascar, Mauritius, the Seychelles Islands and, keeping the best for last – Zimbabwe.  Well, at least we’ll be okay for bananas, which should really become our National Emblem.  Oh, and the prospect of being swamped by cheap US products, so rather than having a Seat at the Top Table as a member of the EU, we get to be the 51st State of America.

    We have had over 4 years to work out a Deal with the EU and we have achieved NOTHING.  A last minute scrape together of a plan scribbled on the back of an envelope will be lauded as ‘Great for Britain’.  Brexit is a cross between watching a Train Crash in slow motion and watching the Passengers on the Titanic cheering for the iceberg, despite being warned repeatedly that there are only enough Life Boats for the richest, the sea is bitterly cols, and this time there will be no Carpathia.  

    #127547 Reply
    Georgie

    Of course, I forgot to mention that do we now have a Blue Passport (HUZZAH!!!) – albeit not in the same shade of blue (or was it black?  Perhaps a shade of bluey black?  Or blacky-blue?), and that are Made in France.  Which will at least give us something to look at while we’re stuck for hours in the International Travellers queue every time we want to pop over to Calais on the ferry for some cheap Christmas booze.

    It would have to be by ferry, because after 4 years of Bluff and Bluster we don’t even have an Agreement that will allow British ‘planes fly over, or land in, any EU country.  And once we set foot on foreign soil we have to cough up extra for Travel Insurance, Health Insurance, extra Documentation that we now need in order to drive in the EU, Roaming Charges for ‘phones . . .

    #127607 Reply
    joss
    Participant

    If only all this was laid bare prior to the first vote. Then maybe just maybe things would be different

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's
    "It is a great ability to be able to conceal one's ability."

    #127617 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Georgie, a sovereign state has control over its laws, borders, waters and trading policy. Members of the EU do not. It’s as simple as that.

    #127623 Reply
    Brydo

    I was wondering where you were wigwam lol.

    Brexit is done, no turning back, no matter how much I wish we could, so its now full focus on getting the best deal possible.

    The EU got a bit of a fright on Friday, by all accounts, but how much of a fright. They are willing to move forward on legal text and one or two other items but I just can’t see them move far enough to let BJ call the deal a victory.

    #127624 Reply
    Georgie

    So tell me, in what way did we NOT have our own laws?  We didn’t want to join the single currency, we voted against joining the single currency, we didn’t join the single currency.  OUR choice.  Britain, Germany and France were the Big Three when it came to setting out EU Rules, so the vast majority of EU laws are so closely aligned with our own Laws that it made no difference.

    Controlling our borders?  We’ve always been able to kick out ‘undesireables’.  Non-EU Asylum seekers have to claim asylum at the first ‘safe’ country they enter.  If they come here via France, Belgium, Spain or any other EU country we can return them to their country of departure.  We have ALWAYS been able to do that as a member of the EU.  From January 1st we WON’T be able to return them as we will no longer be a member of the EU.  They will have to be deported in the same way as we deport everyone else.  That usually takes months, even years, because the Departments responsible are massively underfunded and understaffed for the job, NOT because the EU doesn’t let us.  As for EU immigrants – having done our best to demonise them and send them packing back to ‘their own country’ we now have a critical shortage of Hospital staff of all levels, including Catering and Housekeeping, a critical shortage of Social Care workers, and crops rotting in the fields because the British won’t do the work for the pay offered.  We tried recruiting British unemployed, students and furloughed workers for the Autumn Harvest – 10% never turned up and after a week, over half quit.

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