[martinod]

would motability give permission  for you to use your motability as a part time taxi ,, before everyone says no,  iv just read

We take misuse of your car very seriously. This means things like:

Using it for business reasons we haven’t agreed with you, like as a taxi or for deliveries

the above statement implies if you could justify the use by the disabled person for the well being of the disabled ie so the disabled person benefited from any income ect

what do you think

Topic

[Wigwam]

And they say:

Can I use my Motability Scheme car for business?
The car is covered for social, domestic and pleasure purposes including travel directly between home and permanent place of work, at all times under the Certificate of Motor Insurance. If you require to use the car for any other purpose, please contact RSA Motability (RSAM) to request cover for business use.

So it doesn’t seem to be automatically rule out.

Work up a good case and ask?

 

[Clever man]

Good luck with that how much will it be per mile after you have done 20,000 miles per annum in the first 6 months

 

I’d say you have zero chance don’t taxi drivers need to take a medical?

[WardyGTC]

I’d say your chances are a less than zero but feel free to give them a call and prove me wrong.

I’m sure the question will have been asked before but I’ve never seen any feedback on here for it.

If I seem a little strange, that's because I am.

Skoda Karoq SEL.

[joss]

from motability web site: How you cannot use your car

We take misuse of your car very seriously. This means things like:

Not using it for the disabled person’s benefit
You or someone else driving without insurance or while you’re banned
Using it in a criminal act
Lending, sub-leasing or selling it
Using it for business reasons we haven’t agreed with you, like as a taxi or for deliveries
Not taking good care of it
If we find you’re misusing your car, we might terminate your lease, stop you from getting another Scheme vehicle, and send you the bill for any repairs or estimated loss in its sale value.

Joss
Current car: BMW X2 sDrive 20i M Sport 5dr Step Auto In metallic Portimão Blue. 04:10:2025
Previous car:Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.

[BigDave]

When I had a scheme car a few years ago, it had business cover granted, but there were some  ‘exceptions’ that RSA would not entertain.

One of them was using the vehicle ‘in the capacity of a professional driver’ – which they explained was using the vehicle as a taxi, private hire car or ‘delivery vehicle’.

I had to play verbal and written ‘ping pong’ with them over whether delivering a few beasts to the mart for commercial sale in a trailer attached to the Motability car put me into being a ‘delivery driver’.

They wanted to know how often I did this (once a flood in reality), how far it was (26 miles) who owned the trailer and contents (myself and my siblings as directors of our family farming business), whether I was being paid for the journey (no) and so on and so on.

In the end they said yes (after two refusals) but it was a pain. Much easier now, having left the scheme, with business cover on my own vehicle’s insurance.

[kezo]

Interesting one and thankyou @BigDave for your comment, It may prove to be most helpful.

My daughter currently goes to and from school in transport procured by the local authority (taxi). It is becoming more obvious that she will loose this tansport may well be by next September not due to her disability but her behaviour (ASD) Now if they refused transport soley on her disability it would be classed as discrimination. Given she also has ASD social interaction etc which can but not always cause’s behaviour.

I could take her as a parent would a normal child and get paid as the “crow flys” in petrol money because of her diability andASD.

My prefered way would be set up some form of taxi business soley to take my daughter to and from school and be paid as other transport companies £60 – £70 per day for doing this.

If as @martinhod implied “the above statement implies if you could justify the use by the disabled person for the well being of the disabled ie so the disabled person benefited from any income ect” If correct not only would my daughter benefit from additional income but also no chance of refusal of transport.

Sorry @martinod gatecrashing your thread.

 

[Ralph]

Kezo – Any “form” of taxi business is “Hire and Reward” which you would need a taxi/private hire operator’s licence, plus a drivers taxi/private hire licence from the council. Also taxi companies have to tender for home to school transport contracts and the cheapest price (factoring in fuel and drivers wages) wins the school contract.

There is another way. If your child has an Education Health Care Plan (EHCP) and qualifies for free school transport you are entitled to a Personal Travel Budget (PTB), some councils name it different like personal travel allowance. Here is a link :
https://www.childrenengland.org.uk/personal-travel-budgets#:~:text=A%20Personal%20Travel%20Budget%20(PTB,works%20out%20more%20cost%20effective.

A chap I know, got £8,350.52 pa, paid across eleven monthly payments of around £759.14 per month for taking their child to school. Just don’t mention to the council that the car you will be using is a motability vehicle. The reasoning by the council authority is if you have a motability car you should be using that instead of applying for PTB, but they probably won’t ask anyway.

[kezo]

I’m in Wales and my daughter has the equivulent of a EHCP.

I will take a look on the wales.gov. Hopefully they will do something similar. As said revious the LA have only offered 25p per mile as the crow fly’s, which works out very little.

Thanks Ralph 🙂

[Brydo]

Kezo am i understanding this correctly, you want £60-£70 per day for taking your own child to school?

I`m not sure the scheme was set up to allow people to use their motaboility car as a taxi. Average mileage users are already subsidising high mileage users as it is, so allowing members to use their car to make money while costing others on the scheme doesnt seem right to me.

The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

[kezo]

Brydo wrote:

Kezo am i understanding this correctly, you want £60-£70 per day for taking your own child to school? I`m not sure the scheme was set up to allow people to use their motaboility car as a taxi. Average mileage users are already subsidising high mileage users as it is, so allowing members to use their car to make money while costing others on the scheme doesnt seem right to me.

Hi Brydo. I trust you are all well 🙂

As martinnod asked if your car can be used as a taxi and his understanding of the wording, got me thinking.

My daughter may/may not loose her School transport, not because of her mobility disability, but behaviours caused by ASD.

The problem is the transport procured by the local authority are just an every Joe taxi driver and assistant. They are not trained to deal with children/adults with complex needs, nor do they have the patience and quick to reject, because thecan’t be bothered with the hassle.

As above I could take my daughter to school, just like a parent does with a normal child if they live more than x miles from the school and recieve a x pence per mile as the crow fly’s. This would and is allowed by motability because it is for the benifit of the disabled person regardless of miles.

If I take her evey day and be paid “as the crow fly’s” I will be out of pocket. Reason being it is 3.5 miles as the crow fly’s. Actual is 4x that as I have to cross a valley to get there.

My inital question was soley based on martinod and BigDave’s comments. Every child in my daughters school struggles for LA based tansport. If they were trained or had a family memember with complex disabilities things might be different, but they are not and never likely to be. The LA have said because they struggle to find transport parents with business insurance/business could be paid that a txi firm is. It solves the issue the LA have.

Ralph pointed out that in England the personal travel budget exist for cases like this. In Wales its direct payments similar to Scotlands and I don’t think it works the same but I await an answer fom my local AM.

Initially I did not think it was possible untill I saw this thread and one of the reasons I was thinking of leaving the scheme. If I do I would by a 12/16 seater and register it for example set up business as “kezo’s private hire” That way I could take 12/16 kids @ £60 each. it could be driven by me or another parent and my wife or other parent as an assistant. Which would result in more than qualified people compared to that provided by the LA. When I say thinking about it, In reallity it would need alot of thinking. Or I could just save the hassel and take my on teenager.

If mb allow it (which I didn’t think so before seeing this thread) it may well be the saving grace for my child. If they don’t and direct payments allow it thats fine, it will save hell of alot of hassle. FWIW My other 2 children have offered to help where they can, but are grown ups in their late 30s and early 40s with their own families and still living in England.

I’m talking about taking my child to/from school, not doing the weekend taxi run picking piss heads up from the club. So unsure where you would be thinking you would be subsidising high mileage. My last scheme car did around 23k in 4.5yrs!

As a footnote I have nothing agaisn’t those who make the most of their vehicle and use their 20k per year mileage allowwance. Nor would for that matter abuse the scheme.

[Ralph]

Kezo…. You are wrong in your assessment regarding “Joe Taxi Driver” and Passenger Assistants appointed by UK local authorities. If it were true that means you and your wife would also become untrained “Joe Taxi Driver” and untrained Passenger Assistant if you done it your way.

Taxi drivers have to pass a knowledge test, BTECH or Level 2 Taxi drivers exam, safe guarding course, wheelchair training and enhanced DBS checks before a licence is given. And even then they can only drive an 8 seater passenger vehicle for Hire and Reward. Every Passenger Assistants and every adult travelling with children also need enhanced DBS checks. PA’s also have ongoing first aid training, British Sign Language training and safe guarding courses among others.

Just to be clear driving a 16 seat minibus for profit requires a passenger carrying vehicle (PCV) licence and you must pass a group 2 medical (£100+). You will then need to pass your Module 1 theory test (£50), Module 2 Case Study (£30), and then the bulk of the costs are for your actual training with a 16 hour block costing around £1,000 along with the test fee of £115 (Module 3). Finally the Practical Demonstration Test (CPC Module 4) costs £55.

The CPC qualification (Module 4) which allows you to drive professionally lasts for 5 years only and requires you to undertake 35 hours of periodic CPC training every 5 years. This is the minimum you will need, to earn £60 per child. You would also have to meet the LA regulations, regular VOSA checks at schools, MOT every 6 months including emission testing and the minibus has to be under 10 years old in some counties. You would then have the cost of fuel for picking up 16 children from their home to school in the morning and the same from school to home in the afternoon. Not forgetting your operator’s licence in order to register your vehicle, insurance and and general wear and tear.

The biggest problem you will have even if you meet the above conditions; Is who will pay you the £60 a week for each of the 16 children every term time? The Local Authority don’t work on the basis that 16×60 = £960 a week and at 38 weeks that gives you £36,480 in your pocket.

You will have to register your company with the council (there may be a waiting list) and then you are in competition with other companies for school transport contracts at the lowest price.

I don’t mean to burst your bubble Keza but that in a nutshell, is pretty much with what you are faced with if you want to do it legally and above board. Otherwise we would all be doing it

[kezo]

Ralph wrote:

Taxi drivers have to pass a knowledge test, BTECH or Level 2 Taxi drivers exam, safe guarding course, wheelchair training and enhanced DBS checks before a licence is given. And even then they can only drive an 8 seater passenger vehicle for Hire and Reward. Every Passenger Assistants and every adult travelling with children also need enhanced DBS checks. PA’s also have ongoing first aid training, British Sign Language training and safe guarding courses among others.

Sadly 100% definately not the case by my LA or Wales. Apart from DBS checks. first aid kit (no requirement for training).  The PA needs no training you state other han a risk assessment. Nearly forgot to add new taxi from 2017 needed to take an SQA, although not mandatory for existing drivers. What you suggest sound very similar to what the LA’s own transport operators need.

The needs of an escort in my LA are very similar to this I found frome Tameside.gov

https://www.tameside.gov.uk/InclusiveServices/Special-Educational-Needs-Transport-Escort-Guide

As for the rest of your comment I’m well aware of the requirements implications of a 16 seater hence the mention of 8 or 12 seater. However as a side not when I was 21 I did my class 1 to fill in during the days of from my 5 set shift pattern as a elecritian at michilin tyres in Stoke (to feed my car habit).  Point I’m making although this license is long expired I would have no issue passing a PCV test.  Having already already discussed along with other parents with the LA it would be £35 and £60 somethingSpecial Educational Needs Transport – Escort Guidelines (tameside.gov.uk)ending on the childs location. The LA is crying out for transport to and from her school. The sole reason being, every contracted taxi and escort is just and no different than your every Joe taxi driver. If it was as you suggested they all had those qualifications. I would expect the situation to be a whole lot better, but its simply not the case. I do believe the LA’s own transport used for day care etc operators/escorts need more training in line with what you mention. My mention of parents having more qualifications should have possibly read more understanding with their needs and on how to be with them.

There is alot gong on at the moment by myself, other parents and by the school. Another option under consideration is that the school take over school transport with their minibuses even driven by teachers or parents legaly brought onboard. This would have the advantage of providing additional funding to the school.

At the moment everything is up in the air due to the situation. My main goal is my daughter getting to school if soley to give us a break lol.

Thanks for your link re the pdg grant and I have asked, waiting on a reply whether direct payments here in Wales will provide what the pdg does. If so it sounds like way to go. Also mate I take it you are from Stoke going by the pdg link? My home town is Newcastle u Lyme and frquen visit to see my elder kids etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ajn]

Kezo can I ask, after the many stated problems of getting your Daughter too/from school, are the teachers trained to deal with the problems mentioned that your Daughter has.

years back I did taxi driving,(in my spare time, still got the licence to date)

remember back then had a dreaded school mileage account, rush hour traffic, 2 children, separate pick ups, no assistant back then  (things have progressed I guess), remember a 7yr old lad pinning down another pupil in the back of the cab with a pencil held to her eye, screaming, swearing in her face…

oh yes I used to reject those jobs too, even start or finish before they were due out in the end..

No offence but I do think the parents should be taking & picking their children…

For me I would need peace of mind my kids were there and home safely, and me ready to deal with any difficulties during the travel..

[kezo]

Hi @ajn Yes the school is a dedicated SEN/ASD/disabled school with a variety of children, sadly some have life threatening illnesses. So in that respect the school is more than qualified to look after my disabled and autistic daughter. The teachers are fully trained in all areas.

She is no where near as the lad you reference thankfuly, Rather anxiety and doesn’t like transition, flapping of hands, rocking back and forth, etc. Typical ASD. Her disability play no part as its her lack of abiity walking.

We use to take before she had a statement of education, which meant she had to move schools. This was 10yrs ago. Her school is a 30min journey so not walkable. At the moment I’m on long term sick (ESA support group) I can’t see it but if I go back to work I will need the car (I should/need put a claim in for PIP) and I fully understand/agree with your comment on peace of mind making sure they are home safe.

As said in previously, everything is up in the air and my initial comment was just sounding off for others thoughts. Ralph suggested pdg something I’d never thought of for example. Scool are holding another meeting next week with parents, so will see what comes from that.

 

[ajn]

Thanks for the reply Kezo, great to hear you Daughter is receiving great support in her school, obviously your parenting concerns seem second to none?

I must mention some children are set of to school, with imo terrible departures from parents, very saddening in fact..?

Hope it all works out better than you ever imagined or expected..

[wmcforum]

ajn wrote:

No offence but I do think the parents should be taking & picking their children up

If you had any idea how difficult it can be to raise a severely disabled child you would review this statement. The service is offered and has to be offered if the school is a certain distance from the home address. It is not possible for all parents to drop off and pick up their children, some do but that does not necessarily make them better parents than those who don’t. It is often a very difficult decision to hand over the trust of care of your child, particularly to someone you do not know. In fact it is agonising. The same is true for respite care. The decisions you have to make as a parent of a child with additional needs weigh heavily, but you cannot do it without help. It is simply not possible.

[Wigwam]

Fully support that. wmc. I knew someone worked for Essex CC struggling with providing transport services for children in need.  Finding the right sort of people to take that responsibility was very hard and the gratitude of parents when they did was obvious.

[ajn]

Yes for sure wmc, however some parents aren’t as kind or grounded as others..

You’re totally right I have no idea what so ever of things you mention, however if you saw some of the partings from some parents from their children to school, it might shock you as it did me..

Thanks for your insight, however my thoughts still remain, I personally would prefer do the school run myself, nothing wrong with other approaches to it either..

 

 

[kezo]

@wmcforum We help our daughter to and the taxi as she can’t walk far unaided. This actually is the easy part of her condition. It’s her SEN and ASD that are far more challenging in daily life. Although we have been offered respite on many occasions and although it would be nice to have time alone, we as parents can’t bring ourselves to allowing it happen. I have two other grown up children in their late 30’s and early 40s who are normal from a previous marriage. At times I sit back and blame myself for her problems, having a child later on in life (48), but I wouldn’t changer her for the world.

Yes @ajn I’d like to think I’m a great father to her and would fight any battles for her now and in the future.  School is great but at times reminds me of a nursing home you see on a doc.

Lets hope school, parents meeting shines some better light on the situation next week.

 

[ajn]

Things like this would be worry 

[Author]

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