- This topic has 122 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by
.
- Topic
Thought I would start a thread to compare the modern PHEV on the Mobility scheme, it would nice so see how each model compares against another, it would be nice to see if someone would create a thread for Hybrid .
The important thing for all of us is running cost
With our Suzuki Across this month we have covered 720 miles all in EV we have used no petrol we are now seeing due to the colder weather around 52/53 miles on a charger with the heating and aircon, the other day it was very cold we only achieved 46 miles. In August and early September we were seeing 56/58 miles no heating or aircon on.
720 miles total cost £27.24 179.2 kWh
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
- Replies
I fully appreciate that cheap running costs are a major consideration for many, but equally it’s not the primary consideration for many others. I would never choose a car just because it was cheap to run.
Once accessibility issues are ticked, I want a car that is a joy to drive, with good build quality and tech that is top notch to use. I have learned to my cost that some manufacturers driving and safety systems work significantly better than others, so just having the features is only half the issue.
If a car like a Porsche Macan came onto the scheme (in my dreams, I know ?) I would jump at it and not give a fig about the fact I’d only get 25 mpg on a good day. ?
I fully appreciate that cheap running costs are a major consideration for many, but equally it’s not the primary consideration for many others. I would never choose a car just because it was cheap to run. Once accessibility issues are ticked, I want a car that is a joy to drive, with good build quality and tech that is top notch to use. I have learned to my cost that some manufacturers driving and safety systems work significantly better than others, so just having the features is only half the issue. If a car like a Porsche Macan came onto the scheme (in my dreams, I know
) I would jump at it and not give a fig about the fact I’d only get 25 mpg on a good day. 
I appreciate what you are saying, however I am looking at the running cost comparison of PHEV on the scheme, that would allow members to input the everyday running cost plus the AP to help with their decision.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
I fully appreciate that cheap running costs are a major consideration for many, but equally it’s not the primary consideration for many others. I would never choose a car just because it was cheap to run. Once accessibility issues are ticked, I want a car that is a joy to drive, with good build quality and tech that is top notch to use. I have learned to my cost that some manufacturers driving and safety systems work significantly better than others, so just having the features is only half the issue. If a car like a Porsche Macan came onto the scheme (in my dreams, I know
) I would jump at it and not give a fig about the fact I’d only get 25 mpg on a good day. Given its the new Rav4 in disguise which are pretty renowned for their great build quality and off road capability. The interior simplicity, with “real” buttons and, yet full of all the tech you will need along with a host of safety features at your fingertips, which opefully don’t bing and bong like Hyundais do. It’s barmy 300+ bhp and 6s 0-62, maybe all I need, living up a mountainous area and frequently driving through the Brecon Beacons when winter snow and ice comes ?
Yep understand that @Oscarmax and it’s a good question but, of course, any fuel saving has to be offset against the often higher AP cost of a PHEV to get a true ‘net’ saving.
Some low mileage users may be better off with a petrol car with a much lower AP but higher running costs.
Yep understand that @Oscarmax and it’s a good question but, of course, any fuel saving has to be offset against the often higher AP cost of a PHEV to get a true ‘net’ saving. Some low mileage users may be better off with a petrol car with a much lower AP but higher running costs.
I agree as some member with self charging hybrids, if you cannot charge up at home a PHEV is not for you.
Our last Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV including towing a 1500kg caravan over 39 month lease 18900 miles £1687.00.
Its just nice to find some realistic running cost.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
I fully appreciate that cheap running costs are a major consideration for many, but equally it’s not the primary consideration for many others. I would never choose a car just because it was cheap to run. Once accessibility issues are ticked, I want a car that is a joy to drive, with good build quality and tech that is top notch to use. I have learned to my cost that some manufacturers driving and safety systems work significantly better than others, so just having the features is only half the issue. If a car like a Porsche Macan came onto the scheme (in my dreams, I know
) I would jump at it and not give a fig about the fact I’d only get 25 mpg on a good day. Given its the new Rav4 in disguise which are pretty renowned for their great build quality and off road capability. The interior simplicity, with “real” buttons and, yet full of all the tech you will need along with a host of safety features at your fingertips, which opefully don’t bing and bong like Hyundais do. It’s barmy 300+ bhp and 6s 0-62, maybe all I need, living up a mountainous area and frequently driving through the Brecon Beacons when winter snow and ice comes
Sorry no bing bongs
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Hi Oscarmax, thanks for posting – This is interesting for us as we have just picked up our our first PHEV (Peugeot 308SW). Our intention was to do most of our weekly driving fully electric and just pop into hybrid mode for longer journies.
The stated 100% electric range is “up to 37 miles”. Well, with the AC set to 19 C with an external temp of 17 C (so not doing much…), pootling in London traffic (so very little accelleration, never over half way up the ‘Eco’ range on the dial) we’re getting about 15-17 miles out of a full battery.
On public chargers it’s costing £6-£7 to fully charge and at home, using a 3-pin plug ‘granny charger’, it’s costing £3-£4 to fully charge. We don’t have a wall box, or an EV/overnight tarrif, just OVO’s standard rate.
It’s a 12.4 kWh battery and it takes 3.5 hours to fully charge on a public charger and about 5.5 hours at home.
We were quite surprised at how poor the 100% electric range was, but it should be just enough for our needs. It has made us even more anxious about in the future going fully electric though…
The stated 100% electric range is “up to 37 miles”. Well, with the AC set to 19 C with an external temp of 17 C (so not doing much…), pootling in London traffic (so very little accelleration, never over half way up the ‘Eco’ range on the dial) we’re getting about 15-17 miles out of a full battery.
Thats not good Will, though I believe there is an OTA update to fix this. Maybe worth visiting your dealer if it hasn’t updated your car OTA.
Have a read of the first few paragraphs…
@Will That’s surely costing you a lot more than running a petrol car would, just on running costs alone, even before allowing for the higher AP that PHEVs command?
Hi Oscarmax, thanks for posting – This is interesting for us as we have just picked up our our first PHEV (Peugeot 308SW). Our intention was to do most of our weekly driving fully electric and just pop into hybrid mode for longer journies. The stated 100% electric range is “up to 37 miles”. Well, with the AC set to 19 C with an external temp of 17 C (so not doing much…), pootling in London traffic (so very little accelleration, never over half way up the ‘Eco’ range on the dial) we’re getting about 15-17 miles out of a full battery. On public chargers it’s costing £6-£7 to fully charge and at home, using a 3-pin plug ‘granny charger’, it’s costing £3-£4 to fully charge. We don’t have a wall box, or an EV/overnight tarrif, just OVO’s standard rate. It’s a 12.4 kWh battery and it takes 3.5 hours to fully charge on a public charger and about 5.5 hours at home. We were quite surprised at how poor the 100% electric range was, but it should be just enough for our needs. It has made us even more anxious about in the future going fully electric though…
37 miles with a 12.4 kWh only 8.68kWh is usable 30% used to protect the battery, our previous Outlander PHEV with a 13.8kWh battery would achieve 28/30 miles depended on condition is the cooler weather this could drop to 22/24 miles, in the cold weather with the heating on 17/18 miles, in severe weather 14/15 miles. Like your Peugeot the Outlander was fitted with a ceramic heater, both are energy vampires, with aircon and heating on, with your 12.4 battery and the time you are spending in London traffic 15/17 miles is realistic.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
@Will That’s surely costing you a lot more than running a petrol car would, just on running costs alone, even before allowing for the higher AP that PHEVs command?
I agree, given he could charge it for approx 85p by switching to ovo’s ev tariff!
@Will That’s surely costing you a lot more than running a petrol car would, just on running costs alone, even before allowing for the higher AP that PHEVs command?
I agree, given he could charge it for approx 85p by switching to ovo’s ev tariff!
Yes that would make a big difference!
I still maintain that it’s a false calculation to only express the running costs of PHEVs by looking at the mpg and charging costs though. Unless the AP is identical to the ICE equivalent, you surely have to factor the higher AP in to the calculation as well for it to be meaningful?
I also struggle with the logic of getting a very heavy car with a combined BHP of around 300 and then running that very heavy car on a weedy 100 bhp (or whatever) electric motor. Surely PHEVs are designed to run with both the petrol engines and electric motors working together? If you want to run a car on 100% electric, isn’t it far more sensible to get a full BEV, then at least you have access to the full BHP?
We tow a 1500kg caravan so for us a PHEV make the best of both worlds, the majority of time we charge off peak or of our solar panels, now if we were not towing would we consider a full EV, yes and no, the infrastructure in our area is abysmal, over the past 3 years driving a PHEV we have note public charging point either broken or off line, they are now talking Marshals at Motorway services EV point, we want an easy life.
Some EV are considerably more efficient than other same including PHEV, Hybrids and ICE vehicles.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
I still maintain that it’s a false calculation to only express the running costs of PHEVs by looking at the mpg and charging costs though. Unless the AP is identical to the ICE equivalent, you surely have to factor the higher AP in to the calculation as well for it to be meaningful? I also struggle with the logic of getting a very heavy car with a combined BHP of around 300 and then running that very heavy car on a weedy 100 bhp (or whatever) electric motor. Surely PHEVs are designed to run with both the petrol engines and electric motors working together? If you want to run a car on 100% electric, isn’t it far more sensible to get a full BEV, then at least you have access to the full BHP?
I think the big benifit is the option to drive with electric only (on the right electricity tariff) for say 46-50 miles for day to day business. On longer journeys a flick of a switch puts them into Hybrid mode for longer journeys. Toyota have nailed PHEV’s after all theu have had many years perfecting them and in the unlikely event your on a very long journey the battery went flat for a short while your, still getting mid 40’s mpg at least.
My thoughts.
I do 17 miles a day taking daughter to and from shools, 85 miles per week or 3 gallons £18 in my current Tuscon/Tucson ?. The Across based on 7p per kWh would cost me £2.56 for 90 miles.
Over a year of school journeys 38 weeks (190 days) £97.23 vs £684 or £1500 over3 yr lease saved. Thats not counting all the extra running about we do or during school holidays. When visiting family I can put it in hybrid mode and still get decent mpg, with worrying about charging a EV.
Thats not good Will, though I believe there is an OTA update to fix this. Maybe worth visiting your dealer if it hasn’t updated your car OTA. Have a read of the first few paragraphs… https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/peugeot/308-sw/long-term-reviews/peugeot-308-sw-2023-long-term-test
That’s realy useful @kezo, many thanks for that.
That’s realy useful @kezo, many thanks for that.
Not a problem ?
@Will That’s surely costing you a lot more than running a petrol car would, just on running costs alone, even before allowing for the higher AP that PHEVs command?
I agree, given he could charge it for approx 85p by switching to ovo’s ev tariff!
I also struggle with the logic of getting a very heavy car with a combined BHP of around 300 and then running that very heavy car on a weedy 100 bhp (or whatever) electric motor. Surely PHEVs are designed to run with both the petrol engines and electric motors working together? If you want to run a car on 100% electric, isn’t it far more sensible to get a full BEV, then at least you have access to the full BHP?
You really don’t know what you’re talking about, i’m not sure why basically every single thread about PHEV efficiency and running costs etc gets derailed by absolute nonsense claims like yours.
For starters, very heavy car? You do realise that his PHEV 308 SW weighs less than the average petrol X1? And that those “weedy 100bhp” have around 400nm torque? We have 110hp-ish in EV mode, 400nm. That’s twice the torque from standstill than the average petrol X1 has in its torqueband. So yes, EV only in a PHEV gets asthmatic above 50ish miles an hour, but at those speeds you’re likely to run the petrol engine anyway. On the light, up to 30-35mph, you need at least 200hp to keep up with my “weedy” 110hp in EV only.
PHEVs are designed to run either. Very much obvious if you’d have driven one, or at the least read into how things work. For starters, the only point in time where both motors work together is under (heavy) acceleration. On part throttle, it’s one or the other depending on the mode you’re in. At 60mph on a carriage way, i drive petrol only until i put my foot past three quarters throttle, where the electric motor boosts then.
It’s also not really “sensible to get a full EV for full BHP”, you don’t need 300bhp all the time. That’s just an absolute asinine argument. If he’s poodling around in London traffic, sitting there with a 1200hp Rimac is no different to his 308 SW, like, what’s your point?
On the topic itself, after now around 4300 miles, we have a pretty good grasp on what our GTE can and cannot do.
For reference, we paid £3250 AP (we paid some more than that, but that’s for options that we’d have spec’d in any car like wheels etc). Since we received it in february, as mentioned, we drove it 4300 miles, in those 4300 miles we paid exactly £210 in petrol for four refuels (Super only). We used 1066kw of electricity through our charger, how much we paid there is hard to say since our tariff changed in summer this year (price went up slightly) – but if we assume that all charging was done on the slightly more expensive tariff (from february to june we paid 5p, now 7.5p per kwh – the math is for 7.5p over the entire timeline), we’re at exactly £79.95. That makes less than £300 for 4300 miles.
This was our screen for “Since refuel” before refill last time.
On that tank of Super, we drove 1423 miles (with 25% petrol left), with 14.7kwh/100km (which translates to 4.2 miles per kwh), for an average of 214mpg. And i don’t drive slow – always speed limit. In national speed limits 60/70 depending on the kind of road.
I don’t think i need to do the math for anything comparable (around 250hp) petrol to know that we’re better off even if you take bigger AP into account.
In fact, if we take a currently available Golf as example, the R-Line eTSI is £2549 (a de-tuned GTE drivetrain). The R-Line 2.0 TDI is £2499, makes no difference. The much weaker R-Line 1.5 TSI is £1799.
These outlandish numbers aren’t for all PHEVs, a PHEV Golf is the same price as a Diesel Golf, and there’s nothing the Diesel Golf beats the PHEV in. On petrol only, a drive to Bristol (around 200 miles roundtrip) we got home with an average of 82mpg (half the trip with 2 persons, the other half with 4 + luggage). A 2.0 TDI doesn’t return much more, so even for long(er) distance it doesn’t make sense.
In general.. If someone opens a thread about experiences with their PHEVs, could we just stick to the topic and not turn it into some kind of pssing contest by yet another person who doesn’t like PHEV/EV?
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.I am so glad you have said that Rene, I would like to see a thread to compare Hybrid and EV owners experiences, you can have all the data in the world but there is nothing like real world experience.
I thought our previous Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV was an excellent vehicle, but I was not expecting the Suzuki Across to be so much better.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
We have had our Captur PHEV for 12 days now, haven’t put any fuel into it yet, dealer added 1/2 tank which most of is still in there, have charged it 4 times for 70p per charge so, £2.80 to do 150 miles and still showing 200+ miles left in range.
I didn’t pay a AP well it was £295 but with NCP got £455 back as cash in bank. so I could probably run it for hundreds (thousands?) of mile before i have to actually start paying for fuel.
Granted mine is a small SUV so not suitable for many but ideal for us, 10.3 kw battery getting about 32 miles per charge and dash showing 5.1 m/kwh and stops showing at 99.99mpg.
Downside is plugging it in, whilst it’s lashing down with the recent storms!
If he’s poodling around in London traffic, sitting there with a 1200hp Rimac is no different to his 308 SW
Great post Rene, I often stroll past Ferraris, lamborghinis etc. stuck or pootling along in traffic 😀
Our previous car was a diesel Tiguan Allspace, so we’re paying much less now, even if the electric range wasn’t what we were hoping for.
Range not so good with the heating on due to the colder weather over the very cold spell range dropped to 37 miles, now back up to the 46/48 mark.
Mileage since collection on the 10th August 3086 miles.
kWh 687.40 cost £112.46
Petrol 129 litres £192.00 average £1.49 litre
Total running cost £304.46
Average cost 10 pence per mile (0.986p)
Average fuel cost including electric 68.67mpg. (this includes towing a 1500kg caravan)
No match for a full EV, but not bad for a 2000kg SUV
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Half the price of running a similar size petrol not too shabby at all mate.
I wonder what your figures would be like, if you didn’t tow?
So, I contacted peugeot about the suggested OTA update to fix the range issue and after about 20 minutes and being transferred here and there they finally said there was no such update and we should only expect to get 15-20 miles out of the battery (37 mile electric range published).
Half the price of running a similar size petrol not too shabby at all mate. I wonder what your figures would be like, if you didn’t tow?
To be honest Kezo if we didn’t tow we would go for a full EV especially now the equivalent EV AP is much lower than the high AP being asked for a decent sized PHEV
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
So, I contacted peugeot about the suggested OTA update to fix the range issue and after about 20 minutes and being transferred here and there they finally said there was no such update and we should only expect to get 15-20 miles out of the battery (37 mile electric range published).
Will I had the same attitude problem when Mitsubishi left the UK leaving MG as caretakers they could not be less interested.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.