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Thought I would start a thread to compare the modern PHEV on the Mobility scheme, it would nice so see how each model compares against another, it would be nice to see if someone would create a thread for Hybrid .
The important thing for all of us is running cost
With our Suzuki Across this month we have covered 720 miles all in EV we have used no petrol we are now seeing due to the colder weather around 52/53 miles on a charger with the heating and aircon, the other day it was very cold we only achieved 46 miles. In August and early September we were seeing 56/58 miles no heating or aircon on.
720 miles total cost £27.24 179.2 kWh
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
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Kezo just had a quick look at the caravan forums Tuscon HEV owners are claiming seeing on the odd occasion 69/70mpg regularly achieving 45/50mpg, one member towing a 1650 kg caravan 30mpg and another towing a large twin axle 25mpg.
But are they going by the cars mpg readouts which, as we know with PHEVs, bear absolutely no relation to reality? From what I can gather, only a minuscule percentage of PHEV drivers know how to work out the true mpg equivalent once charging costs are factored in (which the mpg readings don’t allow for). It took me ages to work out the correct way to do it 😂
They are HEV not PHEV, when towing caravaners use HEV (hybrid mode) a 13 kWh battery of a Tuscan will only last about 16/18 miles towing in EV.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Kezo just had a quick look at the caravan forums Tuscon HEV owners are claiming seeing on the odd occasion 69/70mpg regularly achieving 45/50mpg, one member towing a 1650 kg caravan 30mpg and another towing a large twin axle 25mpg.
But are they going by the cars mpg readouts which, as we know with PHEVs, bear absolutely no relation to reality? From what I can gather, only a minuscule percentage of PHEV drivers know how to work out the true mpg equivalent once charging costs are factored in (which the mpg readings don’t allow for). It took me ages to work out the correct way to do it
The Tucson hybrid (Hev) comes in 2wd or 4wd options. The 2wd will acheive 50mpg easily, so quite possible to see 6ompg for a short time. The 4wd will do 44-48mpg, which is slightly more than the PHEV.
Before my parents had a charger fitted, I was getting 38-40mpg on my return journey’s in hev mode. If, I slowed down and didn’t have to go over Brecon Beacons, my hev mpg wouldn’t be too disimilar from the 4wd hybrid Tucson.
@Oscarmax when travelling on the motorway (no caravan), is it better to do so in hybrid mode, saving EV range till later or just blowing it from the off?
Motorway or running fast use HEV mode, try and keep EV for local or 30/40mph , ideally you want to return home with a depleted battery.
With a PHEV when the battery is over 80% you will gain nothing from regeneration, I run my battery down to about 50/60% that way I get maximum regeneration, a depleted PHEV gets maximum regeneration, hence why these HEV are so efficient.
It took us a few month to get the best out of the PHEV it is a learning curve.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Motorway or running fast use HEV mode, try and keep EV for local or 30/40mph , ideally you want to return home with a depleted battery. With a PHEV when the battery is over 80% you will gain nothing from regeneration, I run my battery down to about 50/60% that way I get maximum regeneration, a depleted PHEV gets maximum regeneration, hence why these HEV are so efficient. It took us a few month to get the best out of the PHEV it is a learning curve.
Thank you 🙂
Going away in a few weeks, so will try this, along with coming home from parents, switching to EV as I go up over the Brecon and up the long steep hill to home.
A learning curve indeed!
Motorway or running fast use HEV mode, try and keep EV for local or 30/40mph , ideally you want to return home with a depleted battery. With a PHEV when the battery is over 80% you will gain nothing from regeneration, I run my battery down to about 50/60% that way I get maximum regeneration, a depleted PHEV gets maximum regeneration, hence why these HEV are so efficient. It took us a few month to get the best out of the PHEV it is a learning curve.
Thank you 🙂 Going away in a few weeks, so will try this, along with coming home from parents, switching to EV as I go up over the Brecon and up the long steep hill to home. A learning curve indeed!
1. At the start of your journey use EV mode and deplete the battery down to 50/60%,
2. Switch to HEV mode and use EV mode for 30/40 mph sections only.
Over the Brecons use HEV mode (I take it your vehicle has paddles, uphill zero, downhill use maximum regereration), going downhill especially in the Brecons the camshaft timing will switch to the Atkinson cycle (your ICE unit will use no fuel going downhill)
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
1. At the start of your journey use EV mode and deplete the battery down to 50/60%, 2. Switch to HEV mode and use EV mode for 30/40 mph sections only. Over the Brecons use HEV mode (I take it your vehicle has paddles, uphill zero, downhill use maximum regereration), going downhill especially in the Brecons the camshaft timing will switch to the Atkinson cycle (your ICE unit will use no fuel going downhill)
Great thanks 🙂
In HEV mode the battery is held at say 50% and drives as a normal hybrid continually using and topping the battery up to the 50% point?
1. At the start of your journey use EV mode and deplete the battery down to 50/60%, 2. Switch to HEV mode and use EV mode for 30/40 mph sections only. Over the Brecons use HEV mode (I take it your vehicle has paddles, uphill zero, downhill use maximum regereration), going downhill especially in the Brecons the camshaft timing will switch to the Atkinson cycle (your ICE unit will use no fuel going downhill)
Great thanks 🙂 In HEV mode the battery is held at say 50% and drives as a normal hybrid continually using and topping the battery up to the 50% point?
That’s the theory worked with both my Outlander and Suzuki PHEV.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Just to give an example of what I was saying about the mpg shown in a PHEV being a completely false figure, I’ve just filled up our Tucson PHEV after 479 miles over 2 weeks. The fuel computer shows the mpg over those 479 miles as being 72.7mpg, but this is nonsense as it assumes that all miles driven on electric are free. Once charging costs are taken into account and the total cost (petrol plus charging costs) is equated to petrol only (so as to give a true reflection of mpg in comparison to an ICE car) the ‘real’ figure is 51.3mpg. A very big difference. @kezo I’ll show the workings out on the Tucson thread.
That’s what we do plus a fill to fill for an accurate measurement.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
You guys are getting too pedantic about figures.
It all boils down to how much petrol you put in and how many miles you get out of the fuel you put in.
The charging costs are miniscule if you charge at home.
The whole point about having a battery anf power generator is to recoup the energy that is lost in braking and slowing down.
A crossover or med petrol only SUV is costly to run. Usually the mpg is low 20’s to 30’s.
If you are getting 50 mpg out of a Tucson, thats diesel mileage figures.
Trying to account for every kw or miles is not important.
Its how you drive and use the vehicle that counts.
Or go by the WLTP figures ….you know that is the starting point for discussion…hee hee.
@Ioniq Not true that the charging costs are miniscule in my case, and I suspect others. My costs over the last 479 miles were £40.75 petrol and £17.83 charging (multiple charges). Only by taking both into account do you get accurate running costs. To go by what the fuel computer says (which most PHEV drivers seem to do) is just kidding yourself and is not reality.
Also, re petrol SUVs, I’ve just handed back a 2.0i petrol BMW X1 4WD auto that averaged 42.1 mpg over 3 years and 36,000 miles. On a run on the motorway it could easily do 50 mpg. In fact, the fuel economy was far better than the 2.0 diesel VW Tiguan that it replaced!
@glos guy
Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect.
If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge.
A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can.
Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
@Ioniq Not true that the charging costs are miniscule in my case, and I suspect others. My costs over the last 479 miles were £40.75 petrol and £17.83 charging (multiple charges). Only by taking both into account do you get accurate running costs. To go by what the fuel computer says (which most PHEV drivers seem to do) is just kidding yourself and is not reality. Also, re petrol SUVs, I’ve just handed back a 2.0i petrol BMW X1 4WD auto that averaged 42.1 mpg over 3 years and 36,000 miles. On a run on the motorway it could easily do 50 mpg. In fact, the fuel economy was far better than the 2.0 diesel VW Tiguan that it replaced!
You are totally correct you need both fuel and electric cost otherwise you are obtain a grossly inaccurate figure.
Your fuel consumption figure are pretty accurate for your vehicle at this stage, in a few thousand miles you will refine your driving style and will see an improvement.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
@glos guy Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect. If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge. A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can. Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
I seem to remember that @Glos Guy does not have a cheap overnight electricity tariff, so all his charging is done at standard rate prices, so between 22p and 26p per kWh.
But I agree with the overall flavour of what you are saying. I wouldn’t have an EV or PHEV without a cheap overnight tariff, it’s not efficient.
Our BMW i4 costs around £0.0185 per mile to run. This doesn’t include the odd hour or two of free electricity we get some weeks with Octopus. That’s efficient!
2024 - BMW i4 Grand Coupe eDrive 35 Sport
2020 - Volvo XC40 T4 Inscription
2017 - Audi Q3 TFSi Sport S-Tronic@glos guy Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect. If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge. A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can. Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
I seem to remember that @Glos Guy does not have a cheap overnight electricity tariff, so all his charging is done at standard rate prices, so between 22p and 26p per kWh. But I agree with the overall flavour of what you are saying. I wouldn’t have an EV or PHEV without a cheap overnight tariff, it’s not efficient. Our BMW i4 costs around £0.0185 per mile to run. This doesn’t include the odd hour or two of free electricity we get some weeks with Octopus. That’s efficient!
I can agree with that we are averaging around 10 pence @ kWh on Octopus Agile.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
@glos guy Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect. If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge. A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can. Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
E10 unleaded petrol has a shelf life of 3 months it then start to deteriorate, if you are using one fuel tank every 6 months on a PHEV you have the wrong vehicle i.e a full EV
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
@Ioniq Not true that the charging costs are miniscule in my case, and I suspect others. My costs over the last 479 miles were £40.75 petrol and £17.83 charging (multiple charges). Only by taking both into account do you get accurate running costs. To go by what the fuel computer says (which most PHEV drivers seem to do) is just kidding yourself and is not reality. Also, re petrol SUVs, I’ve just handed back a 2.0i petrol BMW X1 4WD auto that averaged 42.1 mpg over 3 years and 36,000 miles. On a run on the motorway it could easily do 50 mpg. In fact, the fuel economy was far better than the 2.0 diesel VW Tiguan that it replaced!
Actually, “most people” give both their MPG and m/kwh numbers, something you didn’t do.
In my case, i drove 1500 miles on 35 litres of fuel for an average of 214mpg. I also, in the same post, included that i consumed 14.7kwh per 100km, or a more UK friendly 4.14 miles/kwh. The only thing i can’t give you is how many miles out of the 1500 were driven in petrol. But even if i only drove 400 miles (and i know for a fact that i can do more than 400 miles on one tank, did it just last week) in petrol, then i paid £49 for petrol, and £21 for 1100 miles electric, for a total of £70 for 1500 miles. Likely less, since as i mentioned, i get further than 400 miles on one tank.
That’s all anyone needs to know. I can’t do the math for you, i don’t know what you’re paying. I can tell you that i can drive over 900 miles for £18, but that information literally doesn’t mean anything.
I can tell you that in any case, 480 miles for a total of basically £60 is awful. A Tucson should be able to drive at least 225 miles pure electric for £18. That’s assuming a below average range per recharge (i assumed around 27 miles per charge, is in reality noticeably more), and no special tariff, just the national average price per kwh. Leaves you with around 27mpg in terms of petrol. Doesn’t really add up, does it.
For reference, i paid £40 for a roundtrip to England last week (Gloucester, Bovington Tank Museum, Lyme Regis), around 400 miles, at 77mph on the motorway. That’s on a single charge, and premium fuel (Momentum).
It’s funny how much your numbers in the Tucson suck compared to the X1 numbers, which are in the like top 5% of all owners (most average around 34mpg mixed). So good in fact that you’re almost 20% better than the average, and even 5% better than the WLTP cycle given. Something doesn’t quite add up here.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.seem to remember that @Glos Guy does not have a cheap overnight electricity tariff, so all his charging is done at standard rate prices, so between 22p and 26p per kWh.
Correct 72dudes 🙂
21p kWh to be precise.
A Tucson should be able to drive at least 225 miles pure electric for £18. That’s assuming a below average range per recharge (i assumed around 27 miles per charge, is in reality noticeably more), and no special tariff, just the national average price per kwh. Leaves you with around 27mpg in terms of petrol. Doesn’t really add up, does it.
The Tucson will do 38 -42 electric miles however, unlikely at high motorway speeds.
As a rough estimate 6 charges @21p kWh based on adding the full 13.8kWh.
0.21 x 13.8 x6 = £17.34
@35 miles per charge around 210 miles of all electric
@glos guy Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect. If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge. A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can. Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
Good morning. I’m not doing anything wrong and my sums are correct. You have to keep in mind that the economy from a PHEV will vary massively depending on the sort of journeys people make. I have already established that round trips which I can make entirely in EV mode are working out at less than half the price of those journeys in my previous X1, even though I have a standard tariff and pay 21p per kWh. For many PHEV drivers that’s pretty much all their driving. However, I also do regular journeys that are in excess of the EV range, which puts the car in the far less efficient (cost wise) HEV mode.
In order to compare my running costs to an ICE car I am doing the following calculations;
1) Keep a log of the cost of all charges between refuels (I repeat, I am paying 21p per kWh so my charging costs will be much higher than others)
2) Add the total charging costs between refuels to the cost of refuelling the car with petrol to give a grand total running costs.
3) Divide that total cost by the miles driven to give a cost per mile
4) In order to provide a comparison to an ICE car, divide that cost per mile into the price of a gallon of petrol. This gives the true mpg equivalent had all that expenditure been on petrol only.
Using this calculation, my true mpg equivalent had all my charging and fuel costs been spent on petrol gave me an ICE mpg equivalent of 51.3 mpg. This compares to my 3 year average in the X1 of 42.1 mpg. I expect the gap to widen further as I had more journeys that were in excess of the EV only range over the last few weeks than I would usually have, so I don’t think that result was bad at all, especially given my electricity charge. @kezo has also told me that fuel economy of the Tucson engine improves over time, which will also help.
Incidentally, the calculation I am using is exactly the same one that Harry’s Garage use to compare the charging costs of BEVs to an mpg equivalent. Others may disagree and have different ways of expressing their costs, and that’s fine. We are all entitled to do as we wish. However, in my case I wanted to see how the costs compared to my previous petrol car to see if I’d made the right decision and this seems the best way. Admittedly I can’t make an assessment on the first 479 miles alone, but there’s already a 9mpg equivalent improvement and I expect that gap to widen (hopefully considerably) over time, so I’m quite relaxed about it.
@glos guy Wow, if you are only getting 479 miles and spending £17 on charging, you are doing something wrong, or your sums are incorrect. If you vehicle has a battery and an electric motor, like my one does…i get 900 miles out of £17 of charge. A few guys on here have only used one tank of petrol in 6 months of ownership. Granted. Ot everyone can run their phev purely on charging, but some can. Your figures for 479 miles are horrible.
Good morning. I’m not doing anything wrong and my sums are correct. You have to keep in mind that the economy from a PHEV will vary massively depending on the sort of journeys people make. I have already established that round trips which I can make entirely in EV mode are working out at less than half the price of those journeys in my previous X1, even though I have a standard tariff and pay 21p per kWh. For many PHEV drivers that’s pretty much all their driving. However, I also do regular journeys that are in excess of the EV range, which puts the car in the far less efficient (cost wise) HEV mode. In order to compare my running costs to an ICE car I am doing the following calculations; 1) Keep a log of the cost of all charges between refuels (I repeat, I am paying 21p per kWh so my charging costs will be much higher than others) 2) Add the total charging costs between refuels to the cost of refuelling the car with petrol to give a grand total running costs. 3) Divide that total cost by the miles driven to give a cost per mile 4) In order to provide a comparison to an ICE car, divide that cost per mile into the price of a gallon of petrol. This gives the true mpg equivalent had all that expenditure been on petrol only. Using this calculation, my true mpg equivalent had all my charging and fuel costs been spent on petrol gave me an ICE mpg equivalent of 51.3 mpg. This compares to my 3 year average in the X1 of 42.1 mpg. I expect the gap to widen further as I had more journeys that were in excess of the EV only range over the last few weeks than I would usually have, so I don’t think that result was bad at all, especially given my electricity charge. @kezo has also told me that fuel economy of the Tucson engine improves over time, which will also help. Incidentally, the calculation I am using is exactly the same one that Harry’s Garage use to compare the charging costs of BEVs to an mpg equivalent. Others may disagree and have different ways of expressing their costs, and that’s fine. We are all entitled to do as we wish. However, in my case I wanted to see how the costs compared to my previous petrol car to see if I’d made the right decision and this seems the best way. Admittedly I can’t make an assessment on the first 479 miles alone, but there’s already a 9mpg equivalent improvement and I expect that gap to widen (hopefully considerably) over time, so I’m quite relaxed about it.
Nothing wrong with your figures your doing fine.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
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