Coronavirus

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  • #108156 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    There is a lot of knowledge amongst us, I exclude myself.

    The COVID 19 is dominating the news:

    How worried should we be?

    Will this be Spanish flu proportions or just another contained outbreak as SARS and MERS were?

    Oh – and when will we start to see ‘Just in time’ manufacturing suffer?

Viewing 25 replies - 776 through 800 (of 1,089 total)
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  • #130309 Reply
    Vinnie
    Participant

    Agree gothitjulie, my daughter’s teaches special needs and because of their needs doesn’t wear masks etc, her husband is in the vulnerable group and my granddaughter has an immune disorder! Now my other granddaughter has had a pupil in her year test positive and not sure yet if she will have to isolate, it’s all a worry.

    The 70,000 excess deaths over normal figures, ONS, this year, shows how worrying it is, and this “I’m alright Jack” and “it won’t affect me” attitude of some people is what fires the flare ups, yes it would be nice to have normality back, but it would happen sooner if the rules were kept to!

    My son lives in London but has no intention of coming here for Christmas as he wants us to be safe, we are both in the vulnerable group, so we’ll get together over the zoom which is quite funny, done it for birthdays and it’s just like being together, everyone is trying to talk at once and the odd drink makes it even funnier, even his cat got involved once, when it jumped on the router and turned it off!!

    Take care peeps.

    #130306 Reply
    rox
    Participant

    So after reading that article

    Two primary school teachers fighting for life in intensive care with coronavirus as sad as it is, that all the article really says.

    What it does not say is that there was/is an outbreak at the school or was anything to do with school activity.

    So what can one take from it..

    I am sure we’d of herd all about it everywhere, if it was to do with the school, Maybe the two teachers knew each other well or maybe they didn’t who knows? Maybe they car shared with each other / or lived together, ate together etc etc, maybe outside of work they came into close contact with each other and nowhere in the article does it say where it’s likely they caught covid 19.

    It don’t say alot only 2 teacher have covid and do they have underlying conditions no one knows? infact the article is useless. Only good to scaremonger. but thats the mirror for you.. Unlike the mail who gave actual data in the article i posted a link of. Which you haven’t refuted all you offer is slurs.. I wonder why?

    Imagine if the article was “Two primary school teachers fighting for life in intensive care after car crash”, We dont park up the cars as there’s too many car crashes. imo it’s a very misleading article.

    As for your other comment

    This 1% worse than flu figure you keep quoting is utter bunkum & it’s these lies that are encouraging people to drop their guard against COVID-19. Please stop trying to kill people.

    If it’s bunkum, then you must be able to tell us all how much worse than the flu it is then?

    If you cannot then how do you know it’s bunkum?

    As for trying to kill people thats is ridulous and aimed only at shutting down any debate without any evidence or stats to back it up.. just like the article you posted tells you actually nothing at all. Guess that applies to this MP as well Sir Desmond Swayne: “Flu has been killing more than Covid recently” https://youtu.be/YnM9v5bZu6Q

    Plus you may not like this next video, but that it is still up means his facts are correct and not lies..

    3 MIND-BLOWING New FACTS 🤦‍♂️ MSM, BBC & Piers Won’t Tell You! https://youtu.be/pU3SX3M5UpE

    Based on ons stats and the data that you never provide and only make crazy claims that people are trying to kill others or that people will be extinct are based on what exactly, The daily mirror or the sun.. The daily goverment release..

    I take my infomation from lots of sources not just a one sided argument and thus far i have not seen any data to prove what you say at all either. Infact have we seen the 4000 deaths a day like the models suggested we would see and turned out it was weeks old data(fact) that was used and the newest data suggested the cases were failing again in hotspots but lockdown 2.0 was still went ahead. Infact sage constantly is wrong but never in doubt.

    As i have said many times people should follow the guidance if they at risk as that is what the data is saying as in the mail article.. Which actually the goverment put a tweet up about saying it was misinformation, but then removed it. So what that tell us is, it’s based on data that is real and not misinformation at all.

    Maybe you need to improve your critical thinking
    Become more self-aware.
    Understand your mental process.
    Develop foresight.
    Practice active listening.
    Ask questions.
    Evaluate existing evidence.

    Before you talk about or mention bunkum. It seems to me you know very little at all and are very baised to what you are told from some sources by others and you choose to ignore it all, which imo is more dangerous.

    The average age of death from covid is higher than the average life expectancy in the uk(fact) but for everyone else the risk is lower and lower the younger you get and have no pre existing conditions covid deaths so far since feb only around 339 people have died without having other conditions within 28 days of having a lab covid test. but if you fall off a ladder and die and had postive test 20 days ago say, thats recorded as a death from covid. So the actual figure is likely, less in reality than it is.. Thats for sure.

    Just like the tests the data per 100k is very misleading as it is not compared against the previous numbers of lower tests and results / deaths / admins to icu, in lockdown 1.0 and if you do more tests you will detect more cases,  but more cases has not transfered into more deaths with covid ( not of covid ) lets not also forget that..

    Children are more at risk from the flu than covid also the ons data suggests.

     

     

    #130314 Reply
    Vinnie
    Participant

    This is more than 1%, it’s 20%, and no not all are related to COVID-19.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55057380

     

    #130315 Reply
    rox
    Participant
    #130317 Reply
    Brydo

    rox, wigwam I like to think I’m open minded and on that basis let’s assume there is some sort of hidden agenda and covid is no more dangerous than the flu. What is the end game for BJ and his government, not to mention every other government in the world. This pandemic has cost £trillions with no obvious up side.

    As I said I’m open to persuasion so what’s actually happening out there, convince me.

    #130318 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    Wigwam, here’s a Snopes link for you: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/

     

    #130319 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Interesting. Thanks gothitjulie. So what other people said about him, piling other stuff onto his statement to the meeting, is proved wrong.  And other experts claim what he said is wrong.  Does that mean his view shouldn’t be heard?  I certainly don’t believe Covid is no worse than flu, but I do believe wearing face masks is pointless.

    Shouldn’t people be given the option to think and reason? Or are we all expected to believe the government’s experts are always right?

    #130320 Reply
    Vinnie
    Participant

    Yes rox that’s where I get mine from and so far over the five year average there has been an excess of 70000, add the average for each month up, the the actual and you will see the difference!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Vinnie.
    #130324 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    There is no upside, Brydo except for big business and corrupt politicians. The upside for them is the theft of the £ trillions from the people who through taxes will be paying.

    #130330 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    Interesting. Thanks gothitjulie. So what other people said about him, piling other stuff onto his statement to the meeting, is proved wrong. And other experts claim what he said is wrong. Does that mean his view shouldn’t be heard? I certainly don’t believe Covid is no worse than flu, but I do believe wearing face masks is pointless. Shouldn’t people be given the option to think and reason? Or are we all expected to believe the government’s experts are always right?

    His view was heard & then embellished by others, & his qualification claims also appear rather flaky. It’s fine him having a viewpoint, but it’s been embellished, then challenged, as it must be.

     

    Now the face masks, early on in the pandemic there were many viewpoints & of course no data other than for previous studies done on other bacterial & viral spread, one on influenza from around 2015 comes to mind. Even now we have no precise data on how masks affect the spread of COVID-19 as these studies take longer than the virus has been in circulation. So, we have all that old data on old diseases (during the Spanish Flu epidemic people wore masks, white cotton ones that were tied behind the head & boiled to sterilise them, finding data on that that meets modern scrutiny is difficult) & we can only extrapolate from that what we think we know about COVID-19, but the basic principles on masks, particulates, charged particles, etc., are based on the fundamental physical properies. The idea is that someone else wearing a mask protects you if they have an asymptomatic COVID-19 infection, breaking the transmission, not that your wearing a mask to protect you directly helps so much (maybe 5%?).

    There’s some basic ideas about basic cloth masks here – https://masks4all.co/

    Personally I wouldn’t use a simple cotton mask, I sandwich non-woven interfacing into any I’ve made and I use antibacterial coatings on the outer cotton layers (I’m not keen on breeding streptococcus on a mask).

    #130332 Reply
    ajn
    Participant

    copy and pasted from page 30..

     

    Lots of self important comments on here, none of which will solve anything really will it…

    🙄

    #130337 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

     

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

    “Our results suggest that the recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in mask wearers in a setting where social distancing and other public health measures were in effect, mask recommendations were not among those measures, and community use of masks was uncommon.”

    #130338 Reply
    rox
    Participant

    Normally it’s to blame whatever they have planned to come next on, lots of book have been written on many subjects ie the deep state etc and we know, they the power at be ie the central banks / multi national corps/ ngo’s and goverments constantly hide the truth from us.  I ain’t got enough hours to explain it all and look i don’t believe every thoery out there but check out this and it will explain the networks and how they connected if one follows the trail of the money it goes back to the same places.

     

    and then this

    Companies like serco are benefiting from covid hugely and so are peoples mates in goverment for ppe but it’s all ok.. specail times and all that.. orthey  stand to gain / profit from it in some way or other, after they get a cushy job working for those corps or banks et in the private sector they help to profit.

    Maybe some it’s just to boost their ego’s and take the credit for breaking records on the speed that these new experimental vaccines will becoming to market. Which is maybe a rouse to get permission to use mnra for the 1st time, which ain’t happened till now. Which will be alot cheaper to make over traditional vaccines going forward but at what risk to us all. when they not tested over the longer term as all others were and increasing their profits to boot. everything is always about increasing margins and profits and keeping the people enslaved to debt. Thats another whole issue.

    Who funds oxfords trials for example AstraZeneca and it looks to me it seems very rushed for what the stats and phe say and that is also the UK government they no longer considers Covid-19 to be a “high consequence infectious disease”. Yet we are where we are and freedoms are being erroded around the world not just in the uk. Curfews started in california 10pm to 5 am, already in france and others countries. as covid only comesout at night.

    Small buisness are suffering the most and they invested alot into making themselves covid safe and yet are closed down again. which benefits the bigger companies and supermarket chains. who done well.. but not as well as big pharma and the fines they get are crazy but small change compared to the profits they make.

    Also soon football pilots may start soon up to 4k in teir 1 areas less in tier 2 areas none in tier 3, when right now you cannot meet more than one person or protest or speakout about anything else (even at speakers corner) it is how it all starts and history tells us alot.

    The police use of force has gone way up during covid yet crime has gone down and it’s been going on slowly for ages. it’s not an overnight thing it rolls out slowly.we are heading to being no better than china or N korea and the authoritarian state rolls out. Some how many are begging for it they so scared from all the constant scaremongering and yet we are not told things like the recovery rate only the death rate over and over for months and months it’s no wonder alot are scared.

    Like with the new normal, build back better is a slogan from leaders around the world and other groups in the network like the world economic forum, to bring about the social engineering agenda and changes they wanna see happen. That we would never go for. There are many ways it can pan out, but i know this they behind all sides of it..a United Nations Program and who led agenda’s are not what they seem. but who reads the infomation from them. you don’t here anything from the msm but it’s out there likewise is the eu info, but again no one looks as they just believe what they told by the msm and it’s for there own good.

    The imf say any covid loans must be used to implement green recovery plans and imo it’s deffo being used as a springboard for change and nothing happens by accident, not on the scale we seeing around the world the cure is worse than the cause. In the uk now the debt is 2.08 trillion and will grow larger and we may go bust like all the other western counties and the transfer to the east will be complete.

    My aim is not to change people minds but to open them to the systems at play and let them look at it for themselves make there own conclusion than just accepting what they are told.

    #130358 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    “Our results suggest that the recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in mask wearers in a setting where social distancing and other public health measures were in effect, mask recommendations were not among those measures, and community use of masks was uncommon.”

    The problem here being that it’s only testing the estimate of 5% protection provided to the wearer (from infection from someone without a mask who is infected), rather than the 70% estimate from the infected person if the infected person is wearing the mask, or the 95% estimate of protection if both infected & non-infected are wearing masks.

    “Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection” which the 5% reduction assumption is well within.

    “Limitation: Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others. ” So too many other variables to be confident of the data.

     

    #130359 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    If you have time on your hands, Brydo, I’d be interested in your appreciation of this:

    #130399 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I’m posting this here for information. Please feel free to argue it’s wrong.

    https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

    #130402 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    And another interesting article.

    The Blizzard of Bogus Journalism on Covid

    #130403 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant
    #130418 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    That’s the right wing group who were behind that Great Barrington thing.

    #130420 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Is being libertarian and pro free market right wing, wmc?  Does it negate anything they publish?

    #130423 Reply
    Brydo

    It seems likely that taking the vaccine, although not mandatory, will open doors to the return to “normal” life. There are a growing number of voices backing a “vaccinated only” stance with regard to day to day living. It seems that unless you are vaccinated, and can prove it, you won’t be able to fly or be allowed into countries at border checks. Pubs, restaurants, cinemas and the like are to take a similar stance and only allow those who have been vaccinated to enter.

    So it looks like those not taking the vaccination could be in for a very quite year or two.

    #130425 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I imagine the government will want to come up with a badge to identify them. Maybe a yellow star?

    #130426 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    I’m posting this here for information. Please feel free to argue it’s wrong. https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

    If you read some of those publications you’ll find that face masks do work but not as the only method of preventing transmission, the Porton Down/Colindale study is very clear about this:

    “Conclusion
    A protective mask may reduce the likelihood of infection, but it will not eliminate the risk, particularly when a disease has more than 1 route of transmission. Thus any mask, no matter how efficient at filtration or how good the seal, will have minimal effect if it is not used in conjunction with other preventative measures, such as isolation of infected cases, immunization, good respiratory etiquette, and regular hand hygiene. An improvised face mask should be viewed as the last possible alternative if a supply of commercial face masks is not available, irrespective of the disease against which it may be required for protection. Improvised homemade face masks may be used to help protect those who could potentially, for example, be at occupational risk from close or frequent contact with symptomatic patients. However, these masks would provide the wearers little protection from microorganisms from others persons who are infected with respiratory diseases. As a result, we would not recommend the use of homemade face masks as a method of reducing transmission of infection from aerosols.”

    What is made very clear here is that “will have minimal effect if it is not used in conjunction with other preventative measures, such as isolation of infected cases, immunization, good respiratory etiquette, and regular hand hygiene.” is exactly the policy that the UK govt followed & hence you now know what their source of information was.

     

    #130429 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    That’s an interesting interpretation Gothitjulie.

    So if this is true: ” Improvised homemade face masks may be used to help protect those who could potentially, for example, be at occupational risk from close or frequent contact with symptomatic patients. However, these masks would provide the wearers little protection from microorganisms from others persons who are infected with respiratory diseases. As a result, we would not recommend the use of homemade face masks as a method of reducing transmission of infection from aerosols.”

    Then, if they don’t reduce transmission of infection from aerosols, what do they do? (assuming the wearer is not at occupational risk from close or frequent contact with symptomatic people)? In other words if we go about maintaining the prescribed 2 metres from strangers?

     

    #130431 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Is being libertarian and pro free market right wing, wmc? Does it negate anything they publish?

    Not my words I just googled it and it came up. You know how that works. Libertarian, pro free market = anti foreign aid. No thank you.

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