Brexit?

This topic contains 177 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Wigwam 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #93237 Reply

    POPS
    Moderator

    This is the place for reasoned comment or questions about Brexit …. Posts must stay respectful at all times even when we believe that other posters are wrong.

Viewing 25 replies - 51 through 75 (of 177 total)
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  • #93720 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Just a poor old pensioner Mike!  I always shop around for a good deal and John Lewis was the same price as Curry’s but with a free extra 12 months guarantee. Not everything in JL is horribly expense, but much of it is…

    #93721 Reply

    brydo

    John welcome to the thread, your more than welcome, its great to get another perspective.

    Guys labour are pushing for a referendum to be held when/if a deal is agreed, they are also pushing for the UK to remain in a customs union. If a deal like this was agreed how would you vote if the choice was between the deal and remain.

    If voting for the deal would you be happy that brexit had been achieved or would you just be voting for anything other than remain.

    #93722 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Labour won’t agree to an election unless the EU grant an extension. The EU won’t grant an extension without an election or another ref.  Conservatives will not allow a ref and want an election. Who’s going to be first to break out of the circle?

    #93723 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    There will never be that choice, Brydo.

    #93724 Reply

    brydo

    Wigwam I dream of shopping in john Lewis.

    Big Issue Brydo lol.

    #93725 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    They’ll let you in Brydo as long as you don’t smell too bad. You don’t have to buy anything, just gaze in wonder at stuff really rich people sneer at.

    #93726 Reply

    brydo

    The EU will grant an extension, Labour won’t agree to a general election, its not in the Conservatives gift to decide anything.

    This debating thing is actually really easy lol.

    #93727 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Maybe we should wait until November 5th, reset, and start again.

    #93730 Reply

    Menorca Mike
    Participant

    Wigwam do you have your pork pie from Waitrose ?

    BBC Breakfast expert, VW Golf driver.

    #93731 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Only if I can’t get to Fortnum & Mason’s, Mike.

    #93769 Reply

    fwippers
    Participant

    Where do we go from here? Round in circles or round the bend? Or down the drain?

    #93781 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    It seems as far as the law stands at the moment, we leave the EU 11pm next Thursday.

    #93787 Reply

    Brydo

    Article

    Brexit: ‘Fears confirmed’ over rights at work, says Labour

    Labour has said leaked government papers “confirm its worst fears” about plans to dilute workers’ rights after Brexit.

    The documents, revealed by the Financial Times, say that the drafting of commitments on workers’ rights and the environment in the Brexit deal “leaves room for interpretation”.

    Labour said it is a “blueprint” for ending “vital rights and protections”.

    But Business Minister Kwesi Kwarteng said the claims are “way exaggerated”.

    The leaked paper suggests that the government believes there is considerable scope to diverge from the EU on employment rights and other regulations after Brexit, despite its pledge to maintain a “level playing field” in Boris Johnson’s latest deal.

    In Mr Johnson’s Brexit deal, references to a level playing field – the idea that the UK and EU countries keep their rules and standards close to prevent one trying to gain a competitive advantage – were removed from the legally binding withdrawal agreement.

    Instead, they were put into the non-binding “political declaration”, which describes the potential future relationship between the UK and EU.

    According to the FT, the leaked document says the UK’s and EU’s interpretation of the “level playing field” pledge will be “very different”, and the text represents a “much more open starting point” for negotiations over a future trade deal.

    Purportedly drafted by the Brexit department, the paper appears to contradict promises by the prime minister on Wednesday that the UK is committed to the “highest possible standards” for the environment and rights at work.

    It comes as EU leaders consider their decision on a new deadline for Brexit, having agreed to an extension in principle after the UK government admitted it could not meet its 31 October deadline.

    The document will fuel fears among some in the EU that Boris Johnson is planning to shape Britain into a Singapore-style economy, with low taxes and light regulation, which could compete against Europe by potentially downgrading rights.

    ‘Better than our word’
    Suggestions that workers’ rights could be diluted will also raise concerns among Labour MPs, 19 of whom voted for the Withdrawal Agreement Bill to progress in the House of Commons.

    Labour shadow Brexit minister Jenny Chapman said the documents “confirm our worst fears”.

    She said: “Boris Johnson’s Brexit is a blueprint for a deregulated economy, which will see vital rights and protections torn up.”

    The Brexit department said it did not recognise the document, however.

    And Business Minister Kwesi Kwarteng told the BBC the claims were “completely mad” after the government had worked to win the support of Labour MPs.

    “It wouldn’t make any sense at all to dilute workers’ rights in building that coalition to land the bill,” he said.

    “We have said we will be better than our word. We have said our ambition on securing workers’ rights will be stronger than the provision of the bill.”

    A legal commitment
    Environmental groups have also raised concerns after the document was leaked, calling on ministers to introduce legal guarantees on current standards in the Environment Bill, which is due to be debated for the first time in the Commons on Monday.

    Benjamin Halfpenny from Greener UK, a coalition of groups including the RSPB, Friends of the Earth and the National Trust, said: “The government has had plenty of opportunities to put a commitment to existing standards into law, but has thus far not done so.

    “Such a commitment would not prevent future governments from going further on things like water quality and chemical safety, just stop them going backwards.”

    A Brexit department spokesman said the government “has no intention of lowering the standards of workers’ rights or environmental protection after we leave the EU”.

    He said the UK already exceeds the minimum standards in areas such as maternity leave, shared parental leave and greenhouse gas emissions targets.

    #93799 Reply

    Mike 700
    Participant

    Project Fear on steroids!

    Got to do something to counteract the new 16 point Tory lead in the polls today?

     

    Anyway in the real world , outside of the Westminster bubble – well done England in Japan – come on Wales, you can do it!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Mike 700.
    #93809 Reply

    Menorca Mike
    Participant

    Young Jo Swinson would like an election 9 th December so would Ian Blackford

    BBC Breakfast expert, VW Golf driver.

    #93813 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    I wonder why they want the 9th? Elections always held on a Thursday, so the 12th.

    #93814 Reply

    Menorca Mike
    Participant

    Just saw Jo Swinson on Andrew marr show she looked amazing

    BBC Breakfast expert, VW Golf driver.

    #93822 Reply

    fwippers
    Participant

    Lots of interviews today. A lot of nonsense and some common sense. Are we going to be leaving at 11pm Halloween on WTO? Surely this is best, then we have certainty and everyone can plan. It would have my full support and could be the perfect christmas present for this country.

    #93824 Reply

    brydo

    Fwippers please take me off your Christmas list lol.

    As time goes by and scrutiny of BJs deal continues it is clear those who voted for brexit have been coned. The Tories have whipped up this nationalistic “little england” mentality to serve as a “trojan horse” to remove all the standards and conditions working people have fought for over many many years.

    The majority of people in this country are decent, honest WORKING CLASS people, we don’t want to throw away everything we have fought for over the years to find out we have been duped by a self serving, potentially crooked womaniser with no moral compass.

    SNP and Lib Dems offering to back an election why?

    Both of these parties appear willing to throw remainers under the bus as they see the chance for the Tories to be wiped out in Scotland and the lib dems to pick up 30+ seats.

    I think it is shameful and I will be reconsidering my vote at the next election.

    #93825 Reply

    fwippers
    Participant

    Decisions by parties over elections a purely political, the SNP and Anti Democratic Lib Dems feel they could do well but Labour not so, hence reluctance.  As the great “Eric Jones” once said, in voting ffor this you could get that to nothing at all, so Stand Tall/

    #93830 Reply

    Brydo

    The other problem with any deal removing us from the Eu is that a lot of things are devolved. There are many things devolved to Edinburgh and Cardiff what if the British government agree deals with the USA over things that are devolved. If these devolved Parliaments reject these products the U.K. government will need to take these powers back or else we would require some sort of checks at the borders.

    This Brexit thing is really complicated not simple like and “in or out” question on a ballot paper.

    #93831 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Only if you make it complicated, Brydo.  There are no problems, only challenges.

    #93835 Reply

    Brydo

    No that’s not true wigwam, it does suit you to take that point of view, convenient some would say. Everything is fake news or project fear when you are a Brexiteer every problem can be neatly categorised as this to deflect the real issues.

    BJs deal is wide open to allow workers rights to be manipulated and food standards to be lowered. Chlorinated chicken and genetically modified food will be a major part of any deal with the USA and we are standing back willing to accept it as long as Brexit is delivered.

    #93837 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Yes, Brydo, you are right that all those things can be changed by a democratically elected and accountable government through the legislative process. Whether they will be is another matter and very much a project fear motif especially the chlorinated chicken nonesense.

    A democratically elected and accountable UK government can act to lower or remove VAT on sanitary products and ban the export of live animals, both of which we cannot do as a member of the EU.

    You can believe in an autocratic, unaccountable legislature (the EU) or youc believe in democracy (the UK once we’ve left)..

    #93838 Reply

    Wigwam
    Participant

    Correction. I meant technocratic, not autocratic.

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