February 16, 2021 at 2:37 am #140047
February 16, 2021 at 8:51 am #140051Harry
Having to charge the car for over 50 minutes just for a 250 mile journey? That is brutal.
He says the next journey the charging station was took the more popular these big heavy EVs are the more and more this is going to happen.
I just cannot see the benefit of EVs in 2020. Maybe in 10 years time but maybe not…February 16, 2021 at 9:00 am #140052RichardwParticipant
Funnily enough I had already watched this last night before seeing this link.
It highlights the fears of so many people and shows just how far away we are in reality from anything approaching a satisfactory charging infrastructure for those wanting to complete anything other than fairly local journeys. Chasing round after single charging points to find there is a queue? Not for me., not until things are improved dramatically.February 16, 2021 at 9:57 am #140061MickC
@Richardw are you a subscriber like me to PetrolPed.February 16, 2021 at 9:59 am #140062MickC
Petrol Ped takes part in this TV show too https://www.vintagevoltage.tv/February 16, 2021 at 10:01 am #140063
Excellent video. Does anyone really think the problems shown are going to be fixed in the next 9 years???February 16, 2021 at 10:55 am #140078gothitjulieParticipant
Why would you charge with 80 miles of range (40% shown on that charger) left? It’s just going to charge slowly, you want the SoC to be as low as possible when you arrive at a rapid charger so it charges at a much faster rate.
Why would you choose to stop at a 50kW rapid when your car charges at upto 90kW?
Why would you charge above 80% SoC where charging speeds are massively throttled, 91% is way too slow?
And yes, 2.2 miles per kWh is typical of the eTron, it’s shockingly inefficient, you’d get around 3.1 from an e-2008 in those cold conditions, about 3.5 from a Tesla.
Using the M40, J11 has the multiple 150kW ultra rapid Instavolt chargers, why wouldn’t you stop there? Faster charging & no worries about all 8 chargers being busy. M6 J6 has two E.on 150kW chargers (Birmingham Armada).
Ecotricity chargers are unreliable & most EV drivers completely avoid them.
And you’d use ABRP or Power Cruise Control to plan the journey & charging, not Waze.
This video is about how to plan your EV journey badly.February 16, 2021 at 11:01 am #140080
Gethitjulie, your well informed reply has demonstrated the massive gulf between people like you who are clued up about the eccentricities of EVs and the general public.
We don’t need to know anything about ICE cars except where to find a petrol pump and what fuel to use. Until EVs are the same, there can never be acceptance by the motoring public.February 16, 2021 at 11:16 am #140082
i know its human nature with anything new to rail against it.
but people seriously need to get a grip about ev’s, yes they are not yet perfect and the infrastructure needs serious investment. but it only needs a little common sense and a little more planning than with an ice for most day to day journies to be done in an ev.
i could with a little forethought use an ev now, even though i cant have a charger at my current home.
within 4 miles there are half a dozen charges that it wouldnt be difficult to build into my schedule to use to fill up longer journies obviously would need a bit more thought.
but basically i would need to go to a charger for a full charge no more than once a week.
realistically i would probably split that into 2 visits. theres a choice of places to wait out the charge where i could set up my laptop and work while i wait. conveniantly the charges are outside a harvester pub,a hotel and near a kfc and starbucks so spoilt for choice.
so providing the ev has a range that can cover your daily commute for work i dont think its that hard.
as julie points out the person doing this reveiw has loaded the dice so to speak by making sure it uses the slowest chargers at the worst time in its batteries life etc etc.February 16, 2021 at 11:18 am #140083gothitjulieParticipant
Thing is, those multiple charger ultra rapid sites are being put in right now all over the country, I’ve seen a lot of ultra rapids come online since I got the e-2008 last July, there are lots in the planning stage & quite a few installed but awaiting the grid connection.
Instavolt we’ve seen come near the top in reliability & they take a debit/credit card, ZapMap allows you to filter by such things so there’s no longer any need to stop at an ancient unreliable Dale Vince Ecotricity charger, even that Shell charger can be operated with a free Shell Recharge RFID card or things like ChargePoint/Maingau/etc., cards that cover multiple companies chargers.
Yes there’s a gulf of knowledge, it’s a steep learning curve, but within a couple of years it would be the same problem for someone coming from an EV to a fossil, I no longer look for or visit petrol stations except when I saddle up the motorbike in summer (yes, I still have a fossil with an auto gearbox, but it’s my motorbike, and it has about the same range as the e-2008 before it needs fuel which is why it was so easy for me to adapt to an EV’s range).February 16, 2021 at 11:31 am #140089
Mitch, you’re lucky an EV would meet your needs. “but people seriously need to get a grip about ev’s”. Really? No they don’t, not until 2030 and only then if the government of the day carries out the promises made by this government.February 16, 2021 at 11:59 am #140103
wigwam, most people day to day are doing journies of less than 30 miles so i fail to see the difficulty in charging every 3 days or once a weeek whichever suits even if you dont have a home charger a granny charger will do overnight.
all i see is people bleating but what about the once in a blue moon trip to see auntie elsie blah blah.
for quite a lot of people an ev would work even now.
those that need large suv’s etc for lots of equipment or lots of passengers they are the ones at the moment for who it wont work for a while. but for mr average it will work with a little thought and the shouty detractors should get a grip, just because they are against ev’s and can shout louder doesnt make them right.February 16, 2021 at 12:13 pm #140114sif
The truth is that infrastructure is expensive and slow. Sometime in the future a balance will be struck, but that’s a long time ahead. Anyone planning for an EV future has to factor in the number of electric vehicles, the number of wall chargers, the nature of journeys, the price people will pay and the balance between investing or updating fossil fuel stations and EV chargers. No easy task. Its likely that demand will for the next few years, vastly outstrip supply. Look at a country like France. The annual 2 week holiday means an armada of EVs on the road all heading to holidays in the sun, at the same time. That’s a seasonal fluctuation that hardly warrants a huge investment in the infrastructure needed to service that demand. Let them queue. And queue and queue. The upside for the next few years will be more space at the petrol pumps for fossil fuel users as EV proliferate.
Its likely in this country that the rapid chargers will be on motorways increasingly. What chance for enough of them in rural Wales and Scotland, the wilds of Northumberland or the Lake District. The very places that you need them, but places that are hugely seasonal and weather dependent. The truth is that you can be an evangelist for EVs as much as you like, but unlike fossil fuels they aren’t easy to refuel unless your lifestyle and holidays suit. Imagine a family with kids embarking on a long journey. How many stops and queueing do they want? How long a journey can they manage to run an EV? They aren’t likely to be heading to motorways anyway. Let alone get to an EV charger and find a queue.
Ev’s at the moment are made for the single person or couple who live in a city/town and have their own charger. Everyone else has to ask how much inconvenience can they live with, in terms of size, range anxiety, small boots and problems holidaying.
Things will change when range increases and chargers are everywhere and faster. Until then they are not for everyone. But of course by then they will be taxed to hell and back.February 16, 2021 at 12:18 pm #140115sif
Look at flow too. A typical petrol station can see say, 9 pumps refuel 200 cars an hour how many cars can an EV charger fuel? Do the math. The near future for Evs is made up of queuing.February 16, 2021 at 12:21 pm #140116OscarmaxParticipant
I have to admit I am one of those people who have range anxiety, about 95% of the time I could so easily adapt to a full EV, however the other 5% of the time I need to tow a caravan (not much of an excuse really).
However after experiencing regenerative energy recovery, driving in EV mode plus the massive fuel cost savings, what’s not to like.
I am partway there I just need that nudge an affordable EV with a decent size 60/80 kW battery and a range of 300 miles, we are nearly there, I just do not have the confidence or real experience of the public charging system.
Basically we need a decent public charging system in place for the general public to have confidence in EV cars.
In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.February 16, 2021 at 12:31 pm #140121
Mitch, you start off by saying “most people” – the rest of what you say relates to your perception of “most people”. Life doesn’t work like that. By all means express what you feel would work for yourself, but please don’t judge the needs of others by your own needs.February 16, 2021 at 12:53 pm #140130BrydoParticipant
Mitch i agree with everything you have said, please forgive “king Canute” sorry, wigwam, for his anti everything views, its his default position lol.
Sorry wigwam couldn’t resist lol.
The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.February 16, 2021 at 12:57 pm #140131BrydoParticipant
The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.February 16, 2021 at 1:10 pm #140132
wigwam, i am merely going by numerous reports that have stated that most journies even pre covid are under 30 miles ergo most people could use an ev purely based on distance of individual journies.
this obviously doesnt take into account those that need 7 seaters or a large boot for wheelchairs etc but even that leaves most people.
longer journies depending on vehicle range will need some planning but even in an ice most take a break every 2 or 3 hours. you could get a fair old charge in a half or 3/4 hour toilet and coffee break.
as i said the main drawback for most people is the infrastructure which needs work.
but lets face it how long did it take to get the motorway network up and running or petrol stations for that matter.February 16, 2021 at 1:15 pm #140133BigDaveParticipant
Funnily enough, I was chatting with our vet at about 4.30am this morning about electric vehicles.
I had to call him out to carry out an urgent caesarean on a heifer. He had travelled well over 250 miles during his ‘on call shift’ including being parked up for almost two hours, headlights ablaze to illuminate another caesarean on a heifer in the middle of a field, immediately before driving to our farm.
He said electric vehicles were totally impractical for people in his profession, where they can be called out at any time 24/7 and have to drive many miles to get to isolated farms etc. Then illuminate a scene and often have to return to the practice to collect urgent veterinary drugs etc.
Or indeed any profession where you can be called out without warning 24/7 and must drive many miles or go from job to job without having time to go to a ‘hub’.
Couple that with a complete lack of charging infrastructure out in the sticks and you can see where the shortcomings are.
Yes, over time these things maybe overcome, but we are nowhere near a solution yet.February 16, 2021 at 1:33 pm #140139fwippersParticipant
I certainly would consider electric, provided I can purchase a car with a range of in excess of 250 miles, ideally 300 which is available from some manufacturers, Hyundai and Kia in particular. The ability to charge at home is an essential requirement in my opinion but I agree the charging network needs improving with the ability to pay by card rather than by downloading apps. A real life range of 250-300 would be more than sufficient for me, 99% of the time. I recall many people insisting they need a bespoke dining room, just for Christmas day. There is a similar approach to electric cars for the once a year holiday. Not for everyone, but the option of ICE cars will not be a reality for much longer.February 16, 2021 at 1:35 pm #140140
Bigdave, this is exactly what i mean, your vet is not most people and as i said to wigwam there are those who an electric vehicle as they stand wont work, due to size, seats,boot etc.
i mmediately anyone says ev’s can work someone comes up with an example of where they wont and its a v small minority example like your vet or someone that commutes 500 miles for work or suchlike. and how many of those are there?February 16, 2021 at 1:43 pm #140142Brydo
BigDave if you had an ev and charger he could have used yours.February 16, 2021 at 1:49 pm #140144
Mitch – your logic is based on the premise of “most people most of the time”. Which if you apply it to life in general is arrant nonsense. Most people most of the time are awake – so lets not bother with beds. Most people most of the time are healthy – let’s not have doctors and hospitals… I’m sure you can think of your own examples.
Most of the time isn’t good enough.February 16, 2021 at 2:06 pm #140150BigDaveParticipant
BigDave if you had an ev and charger he could have used yours.
No fear – getting a diesel-hybrid Land-Rover Discovery is ‘racy’ enough for me.
My sister who lives on t’other side of the farm did look at getting an EV as she only pops down to Reeth a couple of times per week, but our mains electricity supply out here is ‘flaky’ at best, being at the end of the line and on its last legs.
Powergrid are supposed to be upgrading the power supply across the entire Dale at some point, but as the National Parks Authority insist that all replacement cables are now buried (they cannot spoil the view for heavens sake), it is an expensive and un-budgeted job. More so as Powergrid will not obtain wayleaves to allow cables to run directly across fields etc, so they will have to route cables the long way round on road verges etc. Their estimate for starting the work was FY 2026/7 at best.
So, having an EV up here is rather a waste of time, even if it was possible.February 16, 2021 at 2:20 pm #140158MickC
Electric vehicle fanboy and fangirls thoughts on what they hate about electric vehicles.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdxYXAXGcKw
What do you hate about EV’s ?
For me it would be the long charging time.