- This topic has 66 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by
.
- Topic
I appreciate that this is a Motability Forum, but I know that a number of contributors have purchased private cars and wondered if anyone can answer a couple of questions about the above scheme? We are considering leaving Motability and buying a used car, as the cars that we are considering are extremely expensive new and I don’t want to spend that much and take a big depreciation hit, but I thought I should consider this scheme as an alternative to buying used. I’ve read the HMRC guidance, but these questions aren’t answered and there’s no contact details to ask questions either, so I’m a bit stuck.
My wife easily meets the two main qualifying criteria, as she is a full time wheelchair user and needs a substantial and permanent adaptation, in that she needs a person hoist which is both bolted to the car and wired in to the cars electrics, so that’s a big tick. My questions are as follows;
1) Does the VAT exemption only apply to the base price of the vehicle, or does it apply to the total vehicle price including options? With the cars that we are considering, we’d want to add quite a few grands worth of options, so it would make a big difference. The guidance makes no mention of this whatsoever.
2) The guidance states that a nominated person can buy the car (my wife no longer has a driving licence as she can no longer drive due to her disability) and it says that lots of questions will be asked, such as who is paying for the car, who will it be registered to etc, but it doesn’t say what their stance is on this. In our case, I would buy the car and it would be in my name. Does anyone who has gone down this route know if that would be deemed acceptable?
Many thanks
- Replies
That’s useful to know @kezo In truth, I’m drawn to the air suspension for two main reasons. Firstly, it will be a help loading my wife and the wheelchair. Secondly, on the lowest setting, I can get out without polishing the extended side sills with the back of my trousers (a daft design IMHO)!
Having driven two with and two without air suspension, I can’t say that I noticed much difference to ride quality and certainly not this ‘magic carpet’ ride that reviewers bang on about. With @BigDave and your knowledge and experience this is why I’m keen to have a warranty for my entire period of ownership. The extended warranty seems to cover everything that the manufacturer warranty does, including suspension, engine and electrics, which could be the big ticket items on any X5, let alone the V8. I want to enjoy the car and not be worrying about something going wrong!
@glos-guy What did you order?
Morning @BigDave It was an agonising decision but, in the end, I decided that you’re only young once (and I’ve missed that!), you’re also a long time dead and for once I’m going to let my heart rule, rather than my head, so I’ve ordered the X5 M60i In fairness, there was a degree of financial sense in it as well, as there are bigger discounts to be had on the M60i plus, of course, bigger VAT and VED savings, so it’s actually only costing me £3.5k more than the 40d (versus an rrp difference of £14.5k) and I should get the vast majority of that difference back come resale. Annual insurance is surprisingly only £88 more than the 40d (£658 v £570), but the biggest negative cost difference is naturally fuel. You obviously don’t buy a 4.4 litre twin-turbo V8 for its fuel economy , but it will only cost me around £100 a month more to run than the diesel, which is a premium I can more than live with given the big differences between the two cars. As a friend said to me, we are at a stage in life where ‘smiles per mile’ is more important than miles per gallon! Your advice along the way has been much appreciated and has helped shape what I am adding to the car. The M60i comes as standard with some of the options that I would have been adding to the 40d (e.g. Harman/kardon & Sun Protection Glass) but I’m adding Air Suspension, Technology Package, Comfort Seats, Acoustic Glass and 22” alloys. I wouldn’t have wanted wheels that big, but Mrs Glos Guy insists that black wheels look best with the red brake calipers and the exterior colour that she has chosen, and I have to admit she is right . I’m taking out a relatively inexpensive tyre and alloy wheel insurance though! I’ve managed to negotiate the 5 year servicing package down to £1,100 (oddly, the M60i servicing package is £1,640 inc VAT even though it needs more servicing than the 40d, the same pack for which costs £200 more?). The service pack is transferable to a new owner, so will further help resale value if I decide to change after say 3 years (when we can next get another new car with VAT exemption). The one thing that I’m still mulling over is that I can extend the warranty from 3 to 5 years for £1,399 but it’s not transferable to a new owner (unless it’s a family member, which it wouldn’t be). It’s a very good price as, oddly, there are only 3 price brackets for these extended warranties and all 4×4 vehicles are the same price – so I can get the M60i covered for 5 years for the same price as a 1.5 litre X1! You have to buy it within 14 days of buying the new car though, and if you leave it until the end of the 3 year manufacturers warranty the BMW extended warranty is about £1,860 per year! Given what you told me about your Air Suspension on your X6, if I keep the car beyond 3 years it will be a bargain but, if I don’t, I will have lost the money. Incidentally, following what you told me about your air suspension, I went to a nearby BMW specialist and asked how often they get cars in with air suspension issues and what they charge. They said that the majority of failures occur after around 10 years and the damage is often caused by stones or debris being thrown up and puncturing the bags, hence why there are more failures on the near side. I’m guessing that you living on a farm doesn’t help in that respect! They also said that sometimes they have to change another component which also gets damaged when the air suspension fails (can’t remember what it was) and, if so, it becomes a £1,200 to £1,500 job, which was a lot less than I expected (although no doubt at a BMW dealer it’s probably about £5k)!
Well, that should put a smile on your face when you collect it.
Re the air suspension, on my former X6 it was initially the control unit that was faulty. Followed by 2 x replacements, then the cushions and other bits. Apparantly something to do with certain components being manufactured in the Ukraine which the war rather upset (skilled component builders being called to the front lines etc). However they do seem to have got on top of this and probably changed origin of supply.
That aside, I am sure you will have great fun with it.
Am expecting my new X6 circa April time but am not really in any rush as am just as happy trucking around in the Grenadier, particularly if like this morning with the ice and snow up here.
For all your dancing and steps around HMRC, you should lookup what they can do now.
They have an AI that scrutinises your bank accounts, what you buy and social media posts like this one.
What used to happen 10 or 15 years ago is immaterial. It is crazy how they monitor every transaction.
I cant remember the name if the AI they use, but is extremely efficient.
Good luck.
Thanks @BigDave There’s no way that I would even remotely consider a car like that new without the VAT exemption, but with the VAT, VED, BMW group discount and the additional discount that I managed to negotiate all combined, I got a fraction under £40k off the rrp, which made it too tempting! I can also see Rachel from Accounts capping the price of cars that you can get VAT exemption on, given their crusade against the disabled, so I’m going to fill my boots whilst I still can!
My wife also pointed out that the money that we will now get by having her PIP mobility payments back, plus what we’ll be saving in APs for a lease car from Motability that wouldn’t tick all our boxes, the running costs are more than covered as well! I guess you came to the same conclusions, hence your X6!
I think I’ve read that BMW have made some changes to the air suspension, but it’s still a risk area I guess. The other risk area was that the previous M50i (which I had been considering buying used) had the regular BMW N63 V8 engine which had some long term issues, but the M60i has the much newer S68 BMW M Division engine (M5, X5M etc) which, although it’s only been out for just over 2 years, seems to have a lot of these issues addressed. However, I still think I’d sleep better at night with a warranty for the time that I own it, and it’s occurred to me that the pro-rata refund in AP that we’ll get back for the returned Motability car will pay for the extended warranty!
@Woodpecker I’ve no idea what you are talking about, but I have been totally upfront with HMRC about our situation and vehicle usage, and they have responded to me in writing that we are eligible for the VAT exemption. We are doing nothing wrong and have absolutely nothing to hide. It’s all 100% legit and above board, so you needn’t worry on our account!
Oh dear, yawn!
Hopefully that’s directed at Woodpecker and not me @kezo ? 😂
One side sees nothing right in what you are doing. One sees nothing wrong. Funny old world.
Indeed, but I have gone to great pains with both DVLA and HMRC to ensure that everything I am doing is 100% above board and legitimate. I’m not daft and wouldn’t be taking a flyer on something as important as this!
It is clear to all that you are doing nothing illegal.
Well, all but one…..😉
Oh dear, yawn!
Hopefully that’s directed at Woodpecker and not me @kezo ?
I’m on your side, as your doing everything by the book and nothing wong, which should answer your question 🙂
We do however, have the odd rare breed on this forum!
Bring back the good old days:
Radio 4’s ‘You and Yours’ consumer programme highlighted a practice where a small number of disabled drivers have been ordering high-specification cars such as Range Rovers, Maseratis, Porsches and Bentleys and then immediately selling them on to dealers for a profit of up to £12000 per car.
The dealers then sell the cars as pre-registered vehicles to people who want to jump the waiting lists for these exclusive cars.
At present, a vehicle only has to have small modifications to be eligible to be sold VAT-free.
Examples include fitting a small knob to the steering wheel to aid turning, which can be removed simply and without trace once the vehicle has been sold on.
Reports suggest they have identified an individual who has registered 60 Range Rovers in the past two years.@wmcforum Yes, it was abuse like that behind the change in policy that now only allows people to buy one VAT exempt car every 3 years, and quite rightly so.
The adaptations rule has been tightened as well, hence the “permanent and substantial” criteria that you now have to meet. My wife’s person hoist (as it is bolted to the vehicle frame and hard wired in to the cars electrics) easily qualifies, but the installer tells me that when we eventually sell the car it only leaves a few slits in the carpet that won’t be visible. Not that steering wheel balls qualify anymore, but I know from past experience that they leave a nasty indentation in the steering wheel when removed.
Thanks @BigDave There’s no way that I would even remotely consider a car like that new without the VAT exemption, but with the VAT, VED, BMW group discount and the additional discount that I managed to negotiate all combined, I got a fraction under £40k off the rrp, which made it too tempting! I can also see Rachel from Accounts capping the price of cars that you can get VAT exemption on, given their crusade against the disabled, so I’m going to fill my boots whilst I still can! My wife also pointed out that the money that we will now get by having her PIP mobility payments back, plus what we’ll be saving in APs for a lease car from Motability that wouldn’t tick all our boxes, the running costs are more than covered as well! I guess you came to the same conclusions, hence your X6! I think I’ve read that BMW have made some changes to the air suspension, but it’s still a risk area I guess. The other risk area was that the previous M50i (which I had been considering buying used) had the regular BMW N63 V8 engine which had some long term issues, but the M60i has the much newer S68 BMW M Division engine (M5, X5M etc) which, although it’s only been out for just over 2 years, seems to have a lot of these issues addressed. However, I still think I’d sleep better at night with a warranty for the time that I own it, and it’s occurred to me that the pro-rata refund in AP that we’ll get back for the returned Motability car will pay for the extended warranty!
You didn’t do too shabbily with that level of discount.
I admit I am not fully au-fait with all the petrol ‘M Series’ engines. For my X6, the diesel 40d was the blindingly obvious choice bearing in mind my usage (mainly touring, trips down/up the A1/M1 to/from Heathrow and towing livestock to shows etc). Plus having our own DERV supply on our farms at cost, as well as our bunkerage holdings made it a no brainer.
Yes re the payments. My WPMS payments simply go into a regular savings account. It is surprising how quickly it mounts up, albeit it will get somewhat dented when the X6 needs to be fully paid for! However it then builds up again.
Whilst the scheme is ideal for some people, just not for myself or your good self by the sound of it with different options available.
@BigDave Yes, I was happy with the total discount, but still staggered at how expensive cars have become in recent years. I’m buying it outright, so don’t have to worry about a final payment or interest charges thankfully, but it’s still more than double what I’ve ever paid for a car before and in fact almost double what my first house cost, which is sobering 😱
In your situation, the M60i would be insane and the 40d is a no brainer as you say. In truth, if the M60i didn’t exist, I would have been entirely happy with the 40d. It’s a great car. The problem was that I was spoilt by having extended tests in both and I couldn’t believe the huge difference in performance between them (far more than the figures suggest) and the M60i of course has a nice V8 rumble under acceleration and doesn’t rely solely on Iconic Sounds for it. However, if the price difference between them had remained at £14.5k, rather than the £3.5k I got it down to, it wouldn’t have even been a contender. Also, my usage (which is entirely different to yours) makes the additional running costs bearable.
The one thing that I’m still pondering is whether I’ve done the right thing adding Air Suspension. The M60i has Adaptive M Suspension, which seemed fine to me in the one I had on test, but on the 50e, which had air suspension, I liked the fact that I could lower the car and avoid soiling the back of my trousers on the annoying protruding side sills. It will also make it a bit easier with loading (wheelchair & hoist) and cleaning the car (I’m tall but the roof is a stretch)!
I don’t have a predicted delivery date yet, but the dealer is keeping the March build slot on the 40d that was earmarked for me (now in my exact spec), as they feel that it’s a good colour combination and spec, so they are happy to have it in their showroom. If that comes to pass it will be a bit surreal seeing it knowing that it was ordered for me but not mine!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.