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I believe only full EV contribute towards government net Zero figures and as such will be the only vehicles to qualify for the perks.
Even plug ins have less than 10 years before they are banned.
New Pure petrol and diesel Inc mild hybrids only have 53 months left, so expect them to be getting phased out in about 3 years time as these can’t be sold from 1 Jan 2030, unless goalposts are moved.
Think our next car will be a plug in hybrid. On the EV charging options section on Motability website, it only mentions full EV vehicles being able to benefit from the subscription to the bp pulse network and the Motability Go Charge card Is this available for plug in hybrids at all?
I think it’s just for EVs. We certainly weren’t offered anything when we got our PHEV, not that we would have used it anyway. The time and cost of public charging, in return for the very limited EV range that it gives you, means that it’s not really worth the effort and on longer journeys, or when away from home, it makes more sense (and is possibly cheaper) to just run it on petrol.
It’s worth noting that PHEVs only really make sense if you can charge at home after each time that you use it, and if the limited EV range covers most (or a large part) of your journeys. Due to the added weight, they can be quite thirsty once the battery is depleted. In our case, if you work out the total costs per mile (petrol plus home charging), the car is only saving me £20 a month over our previous (and comparable) petrol car. That’s based on around 7,500 miles a year. That’s because whilst the car works out at the cost equivalent of around 80 mpg when running on electric (I have a standard electric tariff) , that drops to around 33 mpg when the battery is depleted (motorway at around 75 mph – would be a bit higher at lower speeds). Overall, due to my mix of driving, my total costs per mile equivalent (including all home charges) equates to 45 mpg, which is a lot less than I had expected.
If you can’t charge at home, or you do a lot of long journeys, personally the furthest I’d go down the hybrid route is a self charging one. In my case, if I was changing cars tomorrow, I’d go back to petrol or consider a full EV. I’d trade the £20 a month saving to avoid the need to charge after every journey (which I find to be a faff). A 5 minute refuel once every 3 weeks or so was less hassle (which, of course, with a PHEV you still have to do anyway) and with a full EV you don’t need to recharge after every journey.
Think our next car will be a plug in hybrid. On the EV charging options section on Motability website, it only mentions full EV vehicles being able to benefit from the subscription to the bp pulse network and the Motability Go Charge card Is this available for plug in hybrids at all?
Sadly not, no. Free charger, or the MB Go Charge card (which btw isn’t particularly great in the first place, once you read a bit into it – Electroverse makes much more sense) are reserved for full EVs.
As Glos pointed out correctly, you don’t really charge your PHEV on journeys, the intent is to either drive it within the electric range and charge at home, or use the petrol engine. Now of course Glos didn’t mention that it’s HIS PHEV in particular that is awful on petrol: ours does 55mpg on petrol alone despite the added weight, we have an EV tariff and a home charger, and can do a lot of our journeys in electric mode only – we only refuel once every 2-3 months, for around £50 (Momentum). The average recharge costs us a whopping 63p for roughly 32 miles of range average.
PHEVs have a pretty narrow use case – if you can utilise it properly, it’s cheap and convenient. If you get one with an engine notorious to be thirsty (Glos Guy forgot to mention that the non-plug in variants of his car are incredibly thirsty, too) and then drive it 100s of miles per day, much less so.
You can save a lot of money (we certainly do), if you get the correct car for the correct situation – but don’t even bother if you can’t charge at home. We’re towards the end of the lease now (6 months left) and haven’t plugged it in anywhere else but home, not once.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.I believe only full EV contribute towards government net Zero figures and as such will be the only vehicles to qualify for the perks. Even plug ins have less than 10 years before they are banned. New Pure petrol and diesel Inc mild hybrids only have 53 months left, so expect them to be getting phased out in about 3 years time as these can’t be sold from 1 Jan 2030, unless goalposts are moved.
I wouldn’t put money on any of those dates yet, as the UK will follow the EU on this one, as we have done so in the past for obvious reasons, It was a Labour tatic to lower the date back to 2030 and I expect, as we get closer this government or the next will change the date back inline with the EU. As for Plug in Hybrids an EU strategy paper has not ruled out the sale of plug in hybrids after 2035.
Overall, there’s along way to go yet, anything can change, as long as engines can follow euro class emissions who knows what the future holds. , Euro 7 Standards will take the lowest limits from Euro 6, and apply them to all new cars, regardless of what fuel they run on. The other influncing factor is how the european market looks at EV’s at that time, which up to yet has been slow.
As Glos pointed out correctly, you don’t really charge your PHEV on journeys, the intent is to either drive it within the electric range and charge at home, or use the petrol engine. Now of course Glos didn’t mention that it’s HIS PHEV in particular that is awful on petrol: ours does 55mpg on petrol alone despite the added weight, we have an EV tariff and a home charger, and can do a lot of our journeys in electric mode only – we only refuel once every 2-3 months, for around £50 (Momentum). The average recharge costs us a whopping 63p for roughly 32 miles of range average.
My view is as electric-only ranges continue to increase, 70-90 miles are currently achievable, as are charging speeds increasing at both the maximum AC rate and into the DC range depending on the PHEV in question. It’s becoming much more practical to charge on the go and have a decent chunk of range in as little time as a piss stop.
Hyundai/Kia missed the trick here when they facelifted the car last year; as such, it remains the lowest range of its main competitors. That said, I see a calculated 47 mpg on a hybrid run. In defence of @Glos-Guy, he doesn’t use any regen settings.
As Glos pointed out correctly, you don’t really charge your PHEV on journeys, the intent is to either drive it within the electric range and charge at home, or use the petrol engine. Now of course Glos didn’t mention that it’s HIS PHEV in particular that is awful on petrol: ours does 55mpg on petrol alone despite the added weight, we have an EV tariff and a home charger, and can do a lot of our journeys in electric mode only – we only refuel once every 2-3 months, for around £50 (Momentum). The average recharge costs us a whopping 63p for roughly 32 miles of range average.
My view is as electric-only ranges continue to increase, 70-90 miles are currently achievable, as are charging speeds increasing at both the maximum AC rate and into the DC range depending on the PHEV in question. It’s becoming much more practical to charge on the go and have a decent chunk of range in as little time as a piss stop. Hyundai/Kia missed the trick here when they facelifted the car last year; as such, it remains the lowest range of its main competitors. That said, I see a calculated 47 mpg on a hybrid run. In defence of @Glos-Guy, he doesn’t use any regen settings.
Oh i agree, with more modern PHEVs (the current GTE has a e-range of 60 miles, almost double that of ours), that all changes – but these PHEVs are few and far in between on the scheme, and cost a pretty penny. Be it the 250e from Daimler, or the bloody £7500 GTE etc.
They still only (for the most part) charge at 7-11kw max unless you get lucky or spec a 22kw charger for extra cash (relatively rare option in the first place). Charging 30 minutes gives you then somwhere around 20-25 miles. Not worth it, considering how expensive most public chargers are – it actually would be cheaper/similar in price to run the petrol engine in our case. I understand that it’s different for the Tucson, but as i said, it’s not the Tucson PHEV that is thirsty, it’s the Hyundai 1.6 that’s thirsty regardless of what they pair it with.
I also don’t see why Glos would need defence, he doesn’t make an effort to actually utilise the PHEV properly, so it’s moot anyway. There’s plenty of options to increase the economy even on Tucsons, if you deliberately chose not to, then that’s cool but not representative of PHEVs in general, especially on an outlier like the Tucson that isn’t great on economy even in the best case. Add to that the sorta ridiculous AP for PHEVs on the scheme.. The new GTE would be perfect for us, but even with all the savings we did with the current GTE (and that already was £3250 AP), it wouldn’t add up at £7500 AP.
Generally speaking though, the important point is: if you can’t charge at home, don’t get a PHEV. There’s no use case where that makes sense.
edit: for a reference, we recently did a road trip from south wales to Elan Valley, toured all dams, and then back through black mountain pass. Three chonky people in the car, 75 where i could, otherwise always at speed limit or slightly above – ended up at around 240 miles, 64mpg.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.They still only (for the most part) charge at 7-11kw max unless you get lucky or spec a 22kw charger for extra cash (relatively rare option in the first place). Charging 30 minutes gives you then somwhere around 20-25 miles. Not worth it, considering how expensive most public chargers are – it actually would be cheaper/similar in price to run the petrol engine in our case. I understand that it’s different for the Tucson, but as i said, it’s not the Tucson PHEV that is thirsty, it’s the Hyundai 1.6 that’s thirsty regardless of what they pair it with.
I was referring to 50 kWh AC and DC charging capabilities away from home being worth it, but only if you had a decent amount of electric range. In most instances anything over 7kW charging at home can costly especially in the UK – Some EUrope countries have 3phase supplying homes, not sure on Germany though?
With the Tucson 1.6 ICE, I’d get 33-34 locally and around 42 on a run not a million miles away from the 1.5 Ateca.
They still only (for the most part) charge at 7-11kw max unless you get lucky or spec a 22kw charger for extra cash (relatively rare option in the first place). Charging 30 minutes gives you then somwhere around 20-25 miles. Not worth it, considering how expensive most public chargers are – it actually would be cheaper/similar in price to run the petrol engine in our case. I understand that it’s different for the Tucson, but as i said, it’s not the Tucson PHEV that is thirsty, it’s the Hyundai 1.6 that’s thirsty regardless of what they pair it with.
I was referring to 50 kWh AC and DC charging capabilities away from home being worth it, but only if you had a decent amount of electric range. In most instances anything over 7kW charging at home can costly especially in the UK – Some EUrope countries have 3phase supplying homes, not sure on Germany though? With the Tucson 1.6 ICE, I’d get 33-34 locally and around 42 on a run not a million miles away from the 1.5 Ateca.
50kw dc charging is very rare on PHEVs. I can’t think of any on the scheme for starters. Even the comparatively long range CLA 250e still charges at 7kw. The biggest PHEV i can remember seeing is something something Peugeot i think, with an optional 22kw charger.
At home, for a PHEV, you don’t need anything more than 7kw anyway.
In regards to the Ateca, we got around 40 locally and 46-49 “long range” (around 130 mile trip, to black mountain pass and back down). That was in a MY19 Excellence Lux 1.5 Auto. I still have a picture somewhere for the 49mpg lol, that was admittedly painful. Average is more 46-47mpg, realistically. With two people in the car, no more.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.50kw dc charging is very rare on PHEVs.
I think you need more time to get past “bathled” and there me thinking I’ts me going doolally!! lol
VAG PHEV’s on the scheme can be charged at DC quick-charging stations with up to 50 kW, taking as littles as 23 minutes to top up to 80%, as does the BYD Seal U have DC charging. I can’t remember if it was mg bu, one also had similar capability AC fast charging.
VAG PHEV’s on the scheme can be charged at DC quick-charging stations with up to 50 kW
No.
But i will say they’re way faster than i expected – it also only came out recently, our GTE does not charge at up to 40kw.
Though, fair is fair, they do charge very fast on a public charger. Not 100% sure it’d be worth it, but i probably would charge public on those. But still wouldn’t get them if i didn’t have a home charger.
Assuming VW wouldn’t ask absolute moon prices for them, of course. 5300 for a base model Tiguan with the tiny eTSI, or a base model Golf £3500, rubbishing the entire idea.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.No.
40 kW, determined in accordance with DIN 70080. However, charging capacities of up to 50 kW can be achieved under ideal conditions (e.g. very low charge level or high battery temperatures) Sane principles for EV
Now I did say upto 40kW
I admit defeat on that one – but the rest of the point still stands. 😛
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.I admit defeat on that one – but the rest of the point still stands.
Definately!
1- It pointless if your not going to charge at home.
2- At £5k plus AP’s, your not going to gain anything over 3yrs say over the equivulent ICE.
@kezo I did try using regeneration for a time (level 1) after you mentioned it, but it didn’t seem to make any noticeable difference to my EV range (maybe the higher levels would) and, as mentioned previously, I don’t like the sensation of it, hence why I don’t use it regularly now. If my primary concern was running costs then maybe I’d persevere with it but, as you know, I value the driving experience more.
I guess that if it made a significant difference Hyundai would configure the car so that the default was for it to be ‘on’ and you actively have to turn it off (as with BMWs) but, as you know, the default is ‘off’ and, from memory, regeneration isn’t even mentioned in the owners manual (which only sad people like me read anyway 😂) so I bet that the vast majority of Tucson PHEV drivers are unaware of it and, if asked, would have no idea how to activate it!
As discussed at length on the other thread, the main reason for the difference in our running costs (given that we both charge the car after every use) is that we use the cars very differently. Doing your lengthy school run daily (all in EV mode from memory), plus a greater proportion of A road driving, makes a PHEV a better option for you. By contrast, I live within a few miles of a motorway and almost all my journeys to get anywhere involve using it. As I don’t like plodding along with the HGVs to save a few pence, it’s noticeable how mpg drops as speed rises and I think that’s primarily where I lose out.
Whilst the interior and standard kit of the Tucson make it hard to beat, it seems to be that Hyundai’s PHEV technology isn’t quite up to that of some other brands – Toyota and VW to name just two. Perhaps that and a combination of the petrol engine and gearbox. Compared to my BMW, the engine is far less refined and the auto gearbox holds on to revs much longer, neither of which is going to help when it comes to economy.
@kezo I did try using regeneration for a time (level 1) after you mentioned it, but it didn’t seem to make any noticeable difference to my EV range (maybe the higher levels would) and, as mentioned previously, I don’t like the sensation of it, hence why I don’t use it regularly now. If my primary concern was running costs then maybe I’d persevere with it but, as you know, I value the driving experience more. I guess that if it made a significant difference Hyundai would configure the car so that the default was for it to be ‘on’ and you actively have to turn it off (as with BMWs) but, as you know, the default is ‘off’ and, from memory, regeneration isn’t even mentioned in the owners manual (which only sad people like me read anyway
) so I bet that the vast majority of Tucson PHEV drivers are unaware of it and, if asked, would have no idea how to activate it! As discussed at length on the other thread, the main reason for the difference in our running costs (given that we both charge the car after every use) is that we use the cars very differently. Doing your lengthy school run daily (all in EV mode from memory), plus a greater proportion of A road driving, makes a PHEV a better option for you. By contrast, I live within a few miles of a motorway and almost all my journeys to get anywhere involve using it. As I don’t like plodding along with the HGVs to save a few pence, it’s noticeable how mpg drops as speed rises and I think that’s primarily where I lose out. Whilst the interior and standard kit of the Tucson make it hard to beat, it seems to be that Hyundai’s PHEV technology isn’t quite up to that of some other brands – Toyota and VW to name just two. Perhaps that and a combination of the petrol engine and gearbox. Compared to my BMW, the engine is far less refined and the auto gearbox holds on to revs much longer, neither of which is going to help when it comes to economy.UP untill 2025, plug in’s were all very similar in both range and overall mpg, with Toyota being the standout. From 2022-25 the Tiguan ehybrid, had approx 30 mile range and a combined 35mpg. That changed with the latest models across the VAG group, with an engine becoming the 1.5tsi and increase in battery size useable to 19.7kW. The increase to 19.7kW and the ability to charge at upto 50kW DC, left the Tucson behind the curve and I still “bathled” (@Rene) why Hyundai didn’t make the charge with it’s 2025 model or replace it’s AT transmission, with it’s 8 speed wet clutch the latest Sportage adopted and will kick ass with most DCT variants. Toyota uses eCVT transmission, which uses planetary gears rather than the old belt driven CVT, along with a much more efficient 2.5l engine. The Rav4 will do 50 miles under battery power easily in the right weather – Calculated miles kW-KW the Rav4 still outshines the latest VAG, but it can be said Toyota mastered the hybrid. (Even the latest MG plug in is ahead)
The paddles give users the choice in Hyundai EV’s compared to the choice of automatic or off. Perhaps more importantly, I use the left paddle as a footbrake when approaching roundabouts, juncktions etc, 1-3 going down a hill and level 1 driving locally. On the whole, this minimises brake use and keeps it in regen braking part, rather than pushing into friction braking. On a run using faster A roads or motorways, I only use the left paddle, as a break, unless going down a steep decline, I will utiles 1-2-3-3-2-1-0 to keep speed appropiate. Level one remains off, as it stops the full benefit of coasting on longer A roads and motorways – It still regens when you coast and is much more efficient as it keeps you free wheeing on say motorways. It still remains a weird as fcuk way of driving though. I often use sport mode and forget the paddles change to gears whe. I go from 1-2-3, the gears go from 5-4-3 in fairly quick succession to start to slow lol.
It’s a shame we can’t forsee the future when we first started talking about the Tucson. At the time, I had taken delivery, I remember you asking about your then mostly something like 50 mile round trip to the shops, which would have been ecinomical, but sadly things changed to far more frequently 200+ mile round trips on the motorway where hybrid is perhaps at its worse similar to EV, due to speed along with the use of regen turned off. It makes me laugh when, I see some EV’s tootling along the motorway at 56mph tucked in behind an HGV in it’s slipstream, I think whats the point! However, thankfully your is still slightly better and your no worse off, in a similar way my school runs have been my saving grace, It’s not been a complete disaster, That said, I’m still glad that I tried PHEV in the Tucson than sitting inside the Tiggy for 3 years!! But, my view PHEV isn’t as good, as a halfway house between petrol and EV, as I thought even with extended range, I can see an X3 on the horizon in a couple of years, as a 60th birthday present to myself 🙂
Before my Kona I had a Prius PHEV – in all the time I had it the only others ones I saw were at the Toyota garage – loads of non PHEV Prius.
But my point is there was a very noticeable difference in performance and drive between battery driven and engine – you could recharge the battery from the engine whilst driving – so on a long run I would always top the battery up on the motorway ready for the A roads – on the run from Surrey to Redruth it made a huge difference in the ability to overtake on A roads – that was the start of my EV journey.
Before my Kona I had a Prius PHEV – in all the time I had it the only others ones I saw were at the Toyota garage – loads of non PHEV Prius. But my point is there was a very noticeable difference in performance and drive between battery driven and engine – you could recharge the battery from the engine whilst driving – so on a long run I would always top the battery up on the motorway ready for the A roads – on the run from Surrey to Redruth it made a huge difference in the ability to overtake on A roads – that was the start of my EV journey.
I’ll give you that! Even when the battery is depleted there is still 15-20% remaining to help you along the way, with near instant go and no turbo lag. Unfortunately an EV isn’t for me yet – maybe when they guarantee 400 miles come rain or shine, I may reconsider. I’m set in my ways from driving long distances and if I stopped a couple of times to charge, I’ll be home for supper not tea. [emoji’s don’t work, so its just a LMAO I’m affraid.]
@kezo Whilst I am a fan of BMWs (and regret not having stuck with one – although there weren’t any suitable ones on the scheme), I’m afraid that the new X3 falls under the same category as many new generation BMWs, that being “I liked the previous model, but not its replacement”!
I’m still looking for my ‘mid life crisis’ car, although my wife very unkindly says that I’m too old for one of those. I noticed a very well equipped and low mileage 840i for sale locally yesterday at a reasonable price, but it’s purple (which I quite fancy, but might be a bit ‘twee’ in the flesh). Thankfully I spotted what looks like some scuffs on the front dashboard in the photos which, although in front of the front passenger not driver, would irritate me, so I was saved!
@kezo Whilst I am a fan of BMWs (and regret not having stuck with one – although there weren’t any suitable ones on the scheme), I’m afraid that the new X3 falls under the same category as many new generation BMWs, that being “I liked the previous model, but not its replacement”! I’m still looking for my ‘mid life crisis’ car, although my wife very unkindly says that I’m too old for one of those. I noticed a very well equipped and low mileage 840i for sale locally yesterday at a reasonable price, but it’s purple (which I quite fancy, but might be a bit ‘twee’ in the flesh). Thankfully I spotted what looks like some scuffs on the front dashboard in the photos which, although in front of the front passenger not driver, would irritate me, so I was saved!
Perhaps too old now, but I really liked that 2.5l Rover 75 for it’s sublime comfort and lack of fecking bing bong’s. Later models had satnav, cruise control and at that time Rover was under BMW ownership (thats where it ends other than the diesel), untill BMW sold the Rover name to Roewe (Saic). However, regardless of BMW’s ownership MG/Rover went their own direction with the 75 & ZT apart from having BMW’s 1.8 diesel engine, that towards the end MG & Rover decided under their wisdon to covert a fwd drive into a rwd car and shoehorn a 4.6l V8 Mustang engine the into the 75 260 & ZT 260, a torque mans dream and that may be a very interesting proposition to me, if only to keep it in the lock up as a future classic and Sunday best lol.
I get nostalgia – but
I used to take the 6 of us (4 kids) down to the south of France to caravan or chalet
V8 110 Land Rover – and yes it was great – many happy memories – but seats at the back were bench long ways at the side with lap belts – thankfully I have never been involved in an accident with them.
Also lots of camping in UK gear on top rack – 6 bikes on the back.
But comparing safety then to the protection my grand children have – chalk and cheese – or plain non existent
V8 110 Land Rover – and yes it was great – many happy memories – but seats at the back were bench long ways at the side with lap belts – thankfully I have never been involved in an accident with them. Also lots of camping in UK gear on top rack – 6 bikes on the back. But comparing safety then to the protection my grand children have – chalk and cheese – or plain non existent
3.5l 110bhp 250Nm guzzled on good old gallon 2,3 & 4 star leaded petrol costing alot less than a litre of unleaded
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