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Hello everyone,
Hope everybody is well and enjoying their Christmas and Holidays. It has been a while since I logged in!
Apologies for it to be slightly off topic but I have received a Notice of Intended Prosecution, in other words, a fine! Goodness me I have never received a fine before ever in my whole driving years. It did startle me with 4/5 pages of overly hyped rubbish.
So I wasn’t driving at the time. I am the policyholder and owner of the vehicle. However, I also have a nominated driver assigned which is my family member living in the same household/address and carry out certain errands and favours. I have informed my family member in regards to this and they were certainly not aware of it but informed me later that the speed signs on the motorway suddenly changed from 70mph to 50mph with enough notice and quickly dropped down to 50-60mph asap. Then suddenly, a flash strikes! They were alarmed at first but got a little panicky. It was recorded at 55mph. It is absolutely shocking how these motorway work sometimes changing the speed limit quickly.
The worst part is there was no more communication after 4 miles when it would end or if it has ended as they were doing 50mph all the way through the journey.
They accepted it and apologised and I did say there was no need to apologise. To find a solution rather appealing (which will not make a difference), I was reading through the pages, and there are two offers. One is accepting the £100 plus 3 points. The other is attending a course.
Here’s the part I am struggling with. The nominated driver would like to take part in the course but the letter is addressed to myself but same address. They provide six options to tick, it all narrows down to two but cannot tick two at once.
Option 1A states: “I was the driver at the time of the alleged offence and would like to settle the matter by attending a National Motorway Awareness Course workshop.
(You must provide your Driving Licence Number and Date of Birth above.)”Option 2 states: I am or have been the vehicle’s keeper but I was not driving it at the time of the alleged offence
because I hired/bought/sold/returned/leased/lent/assigned the vehicle on—I mean the common sense for me is Option 2 and for the Nominated Driver to fill out their details as it wasn’t me but will the Nominated Driver be offered to do the course? Apologies for the long winded essay. There’s always a first time to everything but this is just something else.
Thank you everyone!
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Yes, of course, Dave G. You should complete option two. Your nominated driver will be given the same offer as you would if you had been driving. Don’t sweat it – have a good Christmas!
Bummer. You need to write and let them know the situation.
Two things I have learnt from this is, you get done at 5mph over a 50mph limit. I thought there would be more leeway. Secondly, when the signs change, that is is. I didn’t know that and again, would have thought there would be more leeway.
Jeepers, I shall take more care that is for sure. I hope you can get this resolved.
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You must sign Option 2. A few years ago I was caught by a mobile speed trap doing 36 mph in a 30 mph zone. In my defence I was in a line of cars all doing the same speed so no doubt DoT made a profit that day. I opted for the Speed Awareness Course to avoid the points on my licence. It was quite an interesting 4 hour session and I learnt more than I expected given that I have been driving since 1972.
Dave G – Most importantly of all, check it’s not a scam. Sadly, there are countless rogue individuals or organisations sending out all sorts of things that look legitimate and official but aren’t. My suspicions would be the 4 or 5 pages of ‘overly hyped rubbish’ and the fact that the alleged offence is 55mph in a 50. Tolerance levels are usually 10% plus 1 to 3 mph depending upon governing authority (usually Police force) to allow for error / camera calibration issues, so it’s unusual to get a ticket for less than 56mph in a 50.
If you are absolutely satisfied that it’s legitimate then, as others have said, you need to inform them of the actual driver. They will get the same option to attend a driver awareness course. If you don’t do this, should you be unfortunate enough to get a ticket yourself in the next 3 years, you won’t have the option to attend the driver awareness course yourself and will automatically get a fine and points.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Tolerance levels are usually 10% plus 1 to 3 mph depending upon governing authority (usually Police force) to allow for error / camera calibration issues, so it’s unusual to get a ticket for less than 56mph in a 50.
It’s 10% + 2 mph for the majority of the country, afaik only London and Lancashire have 10% + 3mph.
That being said: it’s entirely up to the agency running the camera. They can absolutely decide for themselves to argue for 5% + 2mph, for example.
Speeding: what is the “10% plus 2” rule and what does it mean?
In Scotland, there’s no tolerance at all, 1 mph over the limit is enough to get you fined, apparently.
I’m pretty sure that the ticket is legit, or at the very least i wouldn’t question it based on the recorded speed. It’s entirely in the realm of a fine.
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Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.In Scotland they won’t say what the leeway is, but it is typically 10% +1, much the same as elsewhere. This includes the average speed cameras on the A90.
Of course, the authorities can change this at will and mobile speed vans can be less forgiving, run as they are by the local councils as revenue generators.
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There are still a few issues about this that seem odd.
Firstly, I’m still very surprised that a ticket was issued for 55mph in a 50mph. The average tolerance level is 10% plus 2mph, which is 57mph. I don’t know of any police forces that don’t have a tolerance above 10%, even if it’s only 1mph. See link below where AutoExpress surveyed all Police forces in this. Some refused to answer, but none said that they have no tolerance above 10%.
Secondly, when a motorway speed limit suddenly changes there is a time lag before the camera will flash at the lower limit, in order to cover scenarios such as this where motorists haven’t had time to react to the change.
I wonder if the letter has a photo of the vehicle showing the speed that it was travelling at?
https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/speed-camera-tolerances
In law, there is no tolerance.
Tolerance is discretionary, and covers a variance (tolerance) in the calibration of the speed recording equipment.If in doubt, ask for the calibration certificate for the relevant equipment on said date.
Otherwise, accept that ‘the camera never lies’ and accept the penalty as offered.
In law, there is no tolerance.
In practice there is though. See link in earlier post.
And a Court Magistrate would accept an article printed on the confused.com website to be your defense?
If the law isn’t broken, then there is no penalty.
Anyone/everyone is welcome to put the relevant authorities ‘tolerance’ to the test though.
And a Court Magistrate would accept an article printed on the confused.com website to be your defense? If the law isn’t broken, then there is no penalty. Anyone/everyone is welcome to put the relevant authorities ‘tolerance’ to the test though.
Minor speeding fines do not go to Magistrates courts. The vast majority (and probably all) police forces adopt a tolerance level of 10% plus 1 to 3 mph, whether you agree with it or not.
Warwickshire didn’t.
My £100 and 3-points was for 32 in a 30 zone (roadside fixed camera).And a Court Magistrate would accept an article printed on the confused.com website to be your defense? If the law isn’t broken, then there is no penalty. Anyone/everyone is welcome to put the relevant authorities ‘tolerance’ to the test though.
Minor speeding fines do not go to Magistrates courts. The vast majority (and probably all) police forces adopt a tolerance level of 10% plus 1 to 3 mph, whether you agree with it or not.
Okay my man, your inability to understand law is getting slightly embarrassing now, almost more so than the fact you think that you’re actually entitled to that tolerance. Which is btw precisely why some police forces don’t confirm them. What you’re suggesting (falsely) is that there’s in fact two speed limits. The one on the sign, and then the “real one”, which is sign + 10%+2.
It’s nonsense. In fact, your own link, the one that you fired off as “evidence” or “fact” disagrees with you. Not that it would matter, since sagittonius is absolutely correct, but let me quote the part you conveniently either missed or ignored.
“So although it might be tempting to assume that similar thresholds are in place everywhere, you could still be hit with a fine and penalty points on your licence.
It’s also dangerous – speed limits are there for a reason in the first place.
It’s also worth remembering that the buffer zones – where they exist – are used at the discretion of the police to follow the rules around speeding, speed cameras, and the law.
So they’re within their rights to punish drivers that flout the speed limit by even just a few miles per hour. You can’t rely on these discretionary thresholds as a defence if you’re flagged for speeding.”
Everything clear now? To reiterate, that’s from your article, which you very much used as an argument to dismiss someone who is entirely right. I’m sorry that this has to be pointed out so drastically, but you’re actively suggesting that either an entirely correct fine was fraudulent, or that speeding is entirely fine until you reach “the real speed limit”. And that has to be cleared up in an entirely public forum, since it’s utter nonsense.
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Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.The OP was not driving at the time so he has not committed an offence, he needs to return the NIP stating who was driving, I think it’s within 28 days.
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My car SEAT Ibiza SE Tec 1.2 petrol TSI 2017.This is from the Government Web site.
https://www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties
Daughters motability car Hyundai Tucson Ultimate self charging hybrid Serenity White Moss Grey interior.
My car SEAT Ibiza SE Tec 1.2 petrol TSI 2017.Warwickshire didn’t.
My £100 and 3-points was for 32 in a 30 zone (roadside fixed camera).I would have challenged that offence in court, my car digital speedo is 2mph different to my phones speedo when connected via CarPlay, if my speedo says I am doing 44 Waze on my phone says I am doing 42. Which one is correct?
Your speedometer in the car is the only device you can rely on, as it is part of the ‘roadworthy’ vehicle.
If you were to challenge Speed Camera monitoring equipment and the calibration thereof, then you first will need to ensure your car speedometer is correct.
Then, if your speedo states 44mph and your ‘phone’ speed suggests 42mph (and you consider that to be more accurate, as its GPS triangulation based); then if your speedo shows 30mph, then your phone should be a more-accurate 28.6mph – thereby showing you to be within the MAXIMUM speed limit.
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