New Batteries. Too good to be true?

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  • #165002 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Indeed. Reading the article it seems to be for mopeds, but if it works it would surely only be a matter of time until it can be enlarged for cars. I have always said that once the range and ‘refuelling’ time for EV’s matches decent ICE cars (mine has a range of around 600 miles and it takes me less than 5 mins once every few weeks to restore that full range at a ‘pay at the pump’) then I will happily switch.

    #165008 Reply
    Ian

    Agree on range being an issue for some evs.

    However charging each night on the drive for a max of £4 with the occasional rapid charger required for longer trips is my preferred option.

    For me personally I spend less time and certainly less money fuelling than an ICE car driver.

    #165012 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Agree on range being an issue for some evs. However charging each night on the drive for a max of £4 with the occasional rapid charger required for longer trips is my preferred option. For me personally I spend less time and certainly less money fuelling than an ICE car driver.

    Less money certainly, but less time? Do you spend less than 5 minutes every 3 weeks charging the car, because that’s my total time refuelling! I absolutely get the fact that people get EV’s to save money but I remain to be convinced that it’s less hassle.

    #165014 Reply
    Ian

    Absolutely less time, its just like charging a phone… park up, plug in.

    Its quicker than typing this message.

    150 miles of charge.

    98% of the time cars aren’t moving or being used, ideal time to fuel.

    I actually see it as a benefit fuelling this way rather than spending time visiting a fuel station.

    #165015 Reply
    Jim

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Glos Guy,</p>
    Ev loads less hassle than ice, time to plug in, in the evening less than a minute, same to unplug in morning, on the days it needs a top up.  Using octopus energy you are looking at around a penny mile as well.  Most people do not drive more than 300 miles in one day.  If you do, then maybe ice is better for you.

    #165016 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    At home I get it. It’s ‘on the go’ charging that puts me off – for now. When I can recharge fully in less than 5 mins I’m in, as that would be what I’m used to now.

    #165017 Reply
    Ian

    I do understand the on the go charging scenario, you are right it does take longer but i’m 32000 miles in, £5k richer and happy with 30 mins inconvenience once a month or so.

    If you do 600 miles every 4 weeks ie 150 miles a week average then a single charge once a week at home would save you time and money…….

    #165020 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    At home I get it. It’s ‘on the go’ charging that puts me off – for now. When I can recharge fully in less than 5 mins I’m in, as that would be what I’m used to now.

    This is somewhat disingenuous though. At 350 miles, you don’t need to recharge “fully” for a 500 mile journey. You charge enough to get home and plug it in.

    You can bloody rent an S-Class for the two 700 mile journeys a year and still be better off, while being economical.

    #165027 Reply
    Ian

    Yep you are right and actually that could be seen as another bonus…the opportunity to drive another car for a treat.

    Or indeed spend your hard earned on something else rather than petrol or diesel.

    #165028 Reply
    struth
    Participant

    one of issues tho with ev’s seems to be that they are not very high for folk like me or have big boots. I understand that both will reduce battery distances probably why they are not full suvs.

    Its just a shame that phevs are very expensive and dont qualify for a charger either. ..yet anyway.  But yes ev’s are no doubt the future for most, eventually. If im able to get another after this it will likely be one, but i’ll be getting on for 70 then if i keep nissan more than 3 years.

    #165041 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    one of issues tho with ev’s seems to be that they are not very high for folk like me or have big boots. I understand that both will reduce battery distances probably why they are not full suvs.

    Yeah, pet peeve of mine too. That said, it’s going to get better now, with dedicated EV platforms. PHEVs will always have that issue though (because it’s an ICE car with added batteries, they gotta go somewhere – whereas dedicated EV platforms usually are designed with boot space in mind, putting the batteries in the floor).

    The issue of course being that they’re not on the scheme. Ionic 5 and Enyaq especially.

    #165046 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    I do understand the on the go charging scenario, you are right it does take longer but i’m 32000 miles in, £5k richer and happy with 30 mins inconvenience once a month or so. If you do 600 miles every 4 weeks ie 150 miles a week average then a single charge once a week at home would save you time and money…….

    I still don’t see how it would save me time Ian. I currently don’t have to touch the car, other than to drive it, with the sole exception of a single fuel stop of less than 5 minutes every 3 weeks or so. I absolutely get the cost differences though and quite understand that for the vast majority of Motability users that’s their prime consideration.

    I admit that I am probably an anomaly on this forum. When choosing a car, the primary considerations are a big enough SUV to accommodate my wife’s wheelchair, plus luggage (for holidays) and a car that I will enjoy driving (based upon my preferences) and like the look of. There are no EV’s on the scheme at present that tick all those boxes for me. Running costs are quite low down my list as fuel costs only represent around 3% of our total monthly expenditure. I would much rather continue to pay the additional fuel costs than have to regularly charge the car and worry about range anxiety when on a touring holiday (which we do quite often). I just couldn’t be bothered to plan journeys around where I can charge the car or have to make prolonged stops at places where I would otherwise not wish to. I also have no desire to pay all that money for a Motability car only to have to hire a different car for such holidays. I appreciate that I am in a position where I can make that choice and I fully respect that others have different priorities and for most the cheapest running costs will be top of the list, in which case EV’s win every time. It would just be nice if people could sometimes respect the fact that some of us have other priorities and preferences!

    #165048 Reply
    Ian

    With respect Glos Guy you started this thread celebrating how easy it is to fuel ice cars compared to Evs.

    I responded with its easier to fuel ev argument simply because non ev drivers use fuelling as reason that Evs are no good and that they need to regularly drive to the moon without stopping.

    I do absolutely get your space concerns tho, I wish my EV was bigger (and my next one will be) but I am prepared to put up with this because of the other benefits. Clearly in your case this is a non starter.

    You are right though if you want to carry on doing what you have always done, the way that you have always done it then an Ev at the moment probably isn’t for you.

    #165061 Reply
    brydo

    Struth I follow battery development pretty closely and every couple of months there is word of a new battery that can charge quickly and can run for hundreds of miles on a single charge and I would say that most of the experimental units produced can, if factored up, produce, in theory what is suggested. However making a small battery and scaling up to produce them in the millions required are two completely different things.

    When you consider where we were two or three years ago to where we are now, its night and day. I firmly believe in the next few years we will be in the same position with massive improvement in cheap readily available batteries that charge quickly and will give 400-500 miles on a charge.

     

     

    #165069 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    It would just be nice if people could sometimes respect the fact that some of us have other priorities and preferences!

    This goes both ways. You barged into a thread for new battery tech, humblebragging about your financial means and how easy it is to refuel an ICE car.

    What are you doing here in this thread if it has nothing to do with your priorities and preferences? Are you trying to explain to everybody here how easy it is to fill up an ICE car, because i’m very certain we all have stood at the pump before?

    You know what would be nice? If people who have no interest in EVs would stop derailing EV threads. Then the “respect” issue wouldn’t pop up in the first place. I do enjoy our “arguments”, but on this one you’re just dead wrong. By now the people who don’t mind or prefer EVs know who isn’t into it. No need to announce it in every EV thread.

    I firmly believe in the next few years we will be in the same position with massive improvement in cheap readily available batteries that charge quickly and will give 400-500 miles on a charge.

    Don’t let me burst your bubble, but that’s not going to happen. Even if, and that’s a big if, battery tech improves, chargers don’t. First, this particular battery tech here isn’t very scalable (capacitors), second, even if we get to solid state batteries (which is what’s actually gonna advance range) – there’s nothing out there that can charge it. In fact, a Porsche Taycan (i think the Ionic 5 too) are already 800V systems and can charge at 270+kW. There’s 400 chargers available that can do that kind of power. In the entirety of europe. The current charging infrastructure would need to be replaced entirely, because they max out mostly at 55ish kWh – and 800V chargers need to be actively watercooled, too.

    Maybe in the next two decades, sure. But absolutely not in the next few years. We can’t even fill our supermarket shelves properly, to argue that there will be a network of individually watercooled 1200V chargers readily available for all the new battery tech that doesn’t exist yet within the next few years.. is rather optimistic.

    #165070 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Rene – if you are going to insult other forum users you might want to get your facts straight. I rarely contribute to EV threads. There are so many threads about EV’s on this forum these days I don’t even read most of them, let alone contribute to them all. However, you will not tell me which threads I can and cannot contribute to and there is no need for such aggression in your comments. We are all entitled to our views and it would be a dull world if we all agreed on everything. What we can be is respectful to one another.

    #165073 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    The advancement in battery technology has been rapid and augers well for the future when ICE’s will no longer be available. The differing methods of charging/refuelling will appeal to some and be a hinderence to others and thus will be true of both technologies with neither having exclusive appeal as will be the views and opinions expressed here, on other forums and generally.

    #165161 Reply
    Brydo

    By: Mike Buchanan

    According to an article from Torque News, a university in Korea has recently released information about a new type of lithium-ion battery that has the fastest recharge properties currently found in EV batteries.

    Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology (UNIST) says that university scientists recently found a major breakthrough with lithium-ion batteries. Based on information from the school, UNIST newest technology enables lithium-ion batteries to recharge at 30 to 120 times faster than any other lithium-ion battery found in an EV, according to Torque News. Although this latest technology has not been stress tested , if this technology does work and charging stations are built that support such a rapid charge rate, this would be a major advancement to issues surround electric cars.

    According to the article, UNIST’s battery technology uses cathode material along with standard lithium manganese oxide. These materials are then soaked in a solution containing graphite which forms an extremely conductive network that runs throughout the cathode to allow for more of the battery to recharge at any given time. For example, regular lithium-ion batteries recharge starts at the surface of the cathode and then distributes through the battery where as the UNIST has energy-processing particiles that charge throughout the battery automatically.

    One of the the biggest issues concerning current EV technology is recharge time. According to a scientist at the Ministry of Education, Science, and Technology in Korea said, “The development of such a battery could significantly raise the popularity of electric vehicles whose lithium-ion batteries currently take hours to recharge.” But, since this technology requires a massive amount of power, will this technology actually be usable.

     

    Based on information released from the university in Korea, depending on the battery size and desired distance wanted, charging rates would be between 198 to 792 kilowatt range, up from the current 3.3 kilowatt or 6.6 kilowatt charge rate found in personal and commercial charges on the market today.

    Although Tesla has a SuperCharger system that supports up to a 90 kilowatt charge rate that relates to around a 300 mile range, consider what a 198+ kilowatt charging rate for an EV would net? You could fully charge a Nissan LEAF or Chevrolet Volt in about 5 minutes!

    To learn more about this technology, take a look at the article from Torque News, who admits that “this is early stage research and it is unclear when automotive quality batteries built with technology would exist.”

    #165162 Reply
    Brydo

    The above article is from 2012 so it shows there are many people working on battery improvement some of which will come to nothing.

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