thanks bigdave, i suppose that could be the possible debateable point is it just due to old age or can it be traced back to service. my argument would be that post army my life has been fairly sedentary whereas in the army the reverse was true i played every sport going and although i was a support corps RAPC i did do everything the units i served with did and more in some cases. i played rugby to corps level so that may be a factor (front row). i suppose as i cant present a single incident that caused it i would be in a stronger position if there had been an accident or something.