Urgent advice needed

  • This topic has 55 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 24 minutes ago by Lord Muc.
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  • #140554 Reply
    Carl

    I placed an order for my first mobility car which was  a bmw 2 series GC,  in June 2020 for delivery in december.  The delivery date then changed to January, then February and now March.  The time delay was not a problem as I have a private car.

    The problem – the original sales man placed the order on the BMW system and I had the corresponding BMW paperwork that day, I chose the colour of the car and corresponding leather interior.  The AP of the vehicle at that time was I belive £1799 for the M Sport model.

    However, that sales man never placed the order on the mobility system and during the covid lock down has left the company.   I had an email from a new salesman who stated the vehicle was now in and ready for collection in March but a mobility application would have to be submitted now, as it wasn’t completed at that time.    However the AP for that vehicle is now  £2799. And they expect that full payment which is £1000 more than when I ordered the vehicle.

    Any advice is welcomed.

Viewing 25 replies - 26 through 50 (of 55 total)
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  • #140665 Reply
    Lord Muc

    Don’t belive the “we don’t make any money from motobility” line, its trotted out time and time again. Its an easy sale, done there and then, the dealer gets manufacturers bonuses on how many cars they sell, including motobility, and that is more valuable than a slight profit, they don’t get into bargaining as they do with private buyers, add in the motobility no quibble servicing, it keeps the dealership profitable.

    #140668 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Glos guy, I will definitely be taking your advice and asking for this matter to be brought to the attention of the dealer principle. If the outcome is not satisfactory then I’m not sure I have got the energy or health to pursue this matter to BMW UK. You also make a valid point that I will be at the back of another waiting list for a vehicle, I certainly don’t want that. I think if that was the case I would only entertain a stock car and definetly not from this dealer and possibly not even from the manufacturer!!

    At the risk of sounding pedantic Carl, asking for it to be ‘brought to the attention of the dealer principal’ won’t cut it. They will tell you that they will do that, but they won’t. You need to calmly say that “unless they honour the AP at the time you ordered the car, you would like to speak to the dealer principal prior to escalating your complaint to BMW UK”. I am certain that the New Car Sales Manager won’t want the dealer principal to know how his team has messed up, especially as he would probably have been responsible for the hiring of the poor guy you originally dealt with. You won’t get to speak to the dealer principal, let alone need to escalate to BMW UK, but demonstrating that you are prepared to do so might be needed to get you the correct result. Your strong case is based upon the facts that there is no question that you ordered the car (or they wouldn’t have it) and that you are a Motability customer (or you would have paid a substantial deposit) and they know that the Motability rules are that you pay the AP price applicable when you order. They are trying it on and right is on your side. They won’t want a formal complaint logged against them. Good luck. I am sure that you will get the car for the original AP.

    #140669 Reply
    Simon

    I would want the AP honoured and something extra for the unnecessary stress and inconvenience.

    #140680 Reply
    Lord Muc

    Its very difficult, to deal with car dealers that are highly trained not to give anything away, and some will walk away from a sale, if it doesn’t go their way. At the moment, with all the pent up demand, sales aren’t a problem. You will need to present all your evidence, and be confident, however, the dealers know you want the car, so they have the psychological advantage. Depending on your personal circumstances that may not be for you, if its not, don’t waste any more time, start looking at choosing another car from another dealer, while bmw chew over your complaint, It might go your way. In your position, I would be pushing for the original deal, less £500 which is a common discount with bmw, and leave that on the table. By all means try to push the complaint up the chain of command, but it will require energy. The problem is covid restrictions in getting a face to face meetings. The economy will be opening up in the next few weeks, make use of it, by looking at reviews on you tube etc. Be assertive in your dealings, with regular phone follow ups to track the cars progress. As I have said before, its up to you if want the gran coupe, its a nice car, but I don’t think its value for money now, my car would be near £3k AP, with tinted rears. Look at your options, a decent A class or CLk, or 320, is within reach and can be found in stock, using the brands web search.

    #140688 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    It’s a tuff situation for you carl and i feel for you, it’s funny how when something falls through the cracks of the system these unsolvable problems occur of which none are your fault. It just adds more stress to our livesand sometime we just cannot handle it all..

    It maybe worth getting onto Mb again with the situation and go higher up there also.

    I had issues before and it was sorted by the big wigs as it was far from a normal situation that anyone on the phones could handle.. This sounds like one of those.. Mb need to speak to the dealer and if the car was ordered and not put into the system they should honor the AP of when you ordered. After all you pay the ap at the time of ordering and the dealer is the broker between you and mb.

    As glos guy says you got a hard choice to be made if it cannot be resolved and i personally would feel cheated if i had to pay more than the original ap because of the situation and or order a new car and wait again, what if you don’t have more funds what then… some of us are on low incomes and save up for the ap and it’s hard to find that extra out the blue also.. So thats another issue as well.. as well as if you did look for a different car you canot test drive any right now due to lockdown.

    #140716 Reply
    Lord Muc

    Rox, I agree, I think a call from MB to the sales manager, would do it, bad press and all that, but for that, you need to get to the senior managers at MB to do it. As glos guy points out, to start all over again would be painful, and like you I would be resentful at paying more, which could spoil the enjoyment of having the car.

    Pursuing any complaint of this nature, does require some confidence and energy, which not all of have, best bet is to let motobility deal with it.

     

    #140717 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    What i will say is i have noticed a real difference in attitude of mb to new customers to the scheme over that of us who are members of the scheme and have a car already, I guess you don’t actually become a mb customer until you pickup the car and enter your pin and thus the T&C’s don’t really apply until you are on the scheme and the attitude of mb imo reflects that, if something is to go wrong before that point. It’s truely is a tuff one.

    What would give me the motivation was be asked to  to pay 1k more and then it was reduced to only £500 more which is still imo alot more, 1p more is more than i would feel comfortable accepting as imo it’s a matter of princple. but as i said new customers to the scheme are treated differently in some cases as i have seen on this forum.

    #140718 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Carl – On reflection, I agree with Rox and Lord Muc that not everyone has it in them to take on car salesmen, who are professionals in BS, and although it would incense me and set me on a mission to get them to make amends, for many people it’s better to let Motability take it on. Might be an idea to call Motability again tomorrow and say that you’d like them to escalate the issue with a case manager on the basis that the dealership is not following correct Motability ordering procedures.

    In addition to the set fees that Motability pay dealers for orders, processing returned cars etc they also apply penalty charges against dealers who don’t follow correct procedures. I saw the detailed schedule a few years ago and there are quite a few things that they ‘fine’ them for. I suspect that a call to the dealership from a confident Motability manager may result in a resolution. Of course, you may be pleasantly surprised tomorrow and the sales manager may honour the original AP without needing to do any of this. You would certainly hope so. There are still some decent people left in the world, even in car dealerships 😂

    #140723 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    lets hope so glos guy, just a thought was there not an issue with dealers not so long ago, not being able to place orders on the system at some point. Sure i heard that on here. Cannot remember when though. that’s another condition i have no concept of time..

    If the sales manager cannot help imo it’s deffo worth carl  giving mb another call and clearly us on here, who are a bit more knowledgeable of the scheme the info we give others helps people like carl alot to standup to dealers and not be made mugs of, which can make you feel like it’s all your fault(when it’s not) and that is the great thing about this forum. Not everyone is good at complaining.

    #140771 Reply
    Oracle
    Participant

    Unfortunately, there are limited options. From Motability’s point of view the error is the dealership’s, not theirs, and so they will not alter the pricing to the earlier, cheaper advance payment – but they would expect the dealership to do so (but cannot force them to).

    What does that mean for Carl? Well, I’d certainly be raising a formal complaint to BMW UK directly, as this will start to get things moving on the BMW side when head office get on the phone and remind them that they are destroying the image and reputation that BMW has worked very hard for (remember that the dealership are franchised, so this approach will have an effect).

    Beyond that, I’d calmly and firmly tell them that I expect the price to be honoured or I’ll take my business elsewhere. The dealership can then make a call. They might be able to move the car on quickly and not be fussed, on the other hand they’ve bought a car from BMW and in this market it might be more difficult to shift (but they are still owing a lot of money on it until sold)… this might help to focus minds and make a more customer-centric, yet still commercially focused, decision.

    Stay strong. Persevere. But be prepared to walk away. We’re also very close to the next price list change (1 April), so who knows what will go up/down? Consider the Audi A3 saloon, Mercedes-Benz A-Class saloon as alternatives to the BMW 2 Series – both cracking cars.

    It is the customer with the power, always has been.

    #140773 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Oracle – I agree on all points, other than the walking away part. The car salesman, who will have no real decision making powers, has already agreed to waive half of the extra AP. There are two further levels of seniority left within the dealership who can improve on that offer – the New Car Sales Manager and finally the Dealer Principal. Carl has already said that he doesn’t have the confidence or fight to escalate a formal complaint to BMW UK, even though you and I would do so without hesitation. However, I genuinely don’t think that this would be necessary anyway. The simple threat that you are prepared to do it would be sufficient IMO.

    Carl presumably spent time choosing his ideal first Motability car and will have waited 9 months for it. The car could now be handed over to him in a few weeks time. If he walks away, he starts all over again and could be waiting another 9 months. If he still decided that he wants the same car then, even if he goes to a different BMW dealer, he will be paying the higher AP. Meanwhile, his private car continues to depreciate in value and, heaven forbid, could incur an expensive repair in the meantime (perhaps it’s just my bad luck, but I always seem to have something expensive to deal with on private cars just before I need to sell them)! As I have said, the only person who loses in a ‘walk away’ situation is Carl, as the dealer will pass the car on in a heartbeat, possibly to another Motability customer who will pay the higher AP anyway! If it were me, I would be confident that I could get the dealership to honour the AP at the time of ordering and I’m sure that with all the advice we have given Carl he will achieve the same outcome.

    #140789 Reply
    Carl

    Thank you all for your advice and support in this matter.

    I have just recieved an email from the sales executive.  He has passed the matter onto the new car sales manager.  The reply states that they are unfortunately able to offer  any more than the £500 discount making the AP £2299.

    So it appears the sales manager has been no help at all.

    I am contemplating my reply – I’m thinking of paraphrasing glos guy statement ‘unless you honour the AP at the time I ordered the car which was £1749, I would like to speak to the dealer principle prior to esculating this complaint to BMW UK’

    I really have never complained about anything before and its really not in my nature to do so, Im not sure I have the health to actually pursue this matter to BMW UK, but maybe the threat would be enough??

     

    #140790 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Carl – feel free to copy and paste this;

    Thank you for getting back to me, but I remain unhappy with this response. As you know, the rules of the Motability scheme are that the customer pays the AP price applicable at the time the car is ordered, not when it is delivered. The error in the order not being placed on the Motability system when I ordered the car last year is entirely down to the dealership. I do not expect to suffer financially as a result of this error. I am still prepared to accept this car but it must be at the AP price applicable when I ordered it, as per the rules. Prior to me escalating this to a formal complaint with both BMW UK and Motability, could you please ask the Dealer Principal to respond to me in writing as to why your dealership is not prepared to honour the AP price applicable at the time that I ordered the car.

    (By asking the Dealer Principal to respond in writing takes some worry off you about having to speak to them but also makes them think twice as they are going to have to write down why they are breaking the rules, which they won’t be happy to do. I’d be surprised if this doesn’t get you the desired result).

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 10 hours ago by Glos Guy.
    #140795 Reply
    Carl

    Thank you Glos Guy for the time  you have taken to write that response, It is much appreciated.  I have used it verbatim.  I have also included what Simon suggested a bit of compensation in the way of a bit more off the AP due to goodwill compensation.
    I will keep you posted of the outcome!

     

     

    #140850 Reply
    Carl

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Another update:</p>
    Had an email from the new sales manager, who apologied for the poor service experience.  He is going to investigate and come back to me with his findings!

    Looks like the letter that Glos Guy drafted might well do the trick.  I will update you as and when I have a reply.

    #140852 Reply
    NewYork1
    Participant

    I have read your story and the excellent advice and support given and I hope it gets sorted for you. You are very much the victim and deserve alot more then just them matching the old AP IMO for such poor service.

    Current car VW Touran SEL

    #140924 Reply
    Azzy

    Hopefully the dealer play ball but they don’t have to give you a discount but it would be the morally correct thing to do.
    I’m sure with delivery times being so long they wouldn’t have a problem shifting your car.

    #140925 Reply
    Lee Bengough

    Back in 2017 my niece ordered a Nissan Qashqai from Bassetts Swansea and she was due to take delivery of the car on my great nephew 3rd birthday as the car was for him.

    Well 2 days before they rang her to say the car key gone missing blaming the transporter driver and that it will take another week to get a new key. Her own car was on its last legs and she needed a car bad to take my great nephew back and fore hospital and the Sales woman knew this and said she would definitely have the car on his 3rd Birthday.

    So she contacted me as she knows I know a lot about Motability between my own cars and her late dad my brother cars over the years.

    So I spoke to the salesman I know well at my Local Citroën Dealer he felt she was being fobbed off and it sounds like they themselves had lost the keys and we both agreed she should threaten them with calling Motability about it. So she did what I said next thing you know a day later Bassetts dropped a Nissan Note Courtesy car around at her home. So it was thanks to me that happened. She would have had a Citroen from my local dealer but there wasn’t any cars in her budget the same size as the Qashqai.

    Was no offer of a courtesy car before she said she would ring Motability was more or less sorry will have to wait sort to speak. So glad she spoke to me about it and not just waited a week.

     

    #141132 Reply
    Carl

    Final update.

    Following the sales managers investigation, he was initially unable to resolve this matter and passed the blame back onto mobility.

    Following another few emails, I instructed him to pass the complaint to the managing director.   And finally, after careful consideration they agreed to honour the original AP and throw in a full tank of fuel.

    I would like to thank everyone who offered advice on this thread…. it just shows the power of the forum to help resolve matters.   👏👏👏   A big shout out to glos guy for the draft he formulated.

    #141133 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Well done Carl. I had no doubt that you would get the desired result. They were trying it on and I’m glad that you persevered. Too many people fall at the first hurdle. Happy to have played a small part in your success. Now you can enjoy your stunning looking new car which, being a BMW, will be a joy to drive.

    #141141 Reply
    Lord Muc

    Well done. Excellent result.

    #141142 Reply
    Azzy

    Great news, happy motoring

    #141164 Reply
    NewYork1
    Participant

    Great news. They should’ve just offered you that from the start. Unfortunately in this day and age poor customer service is common place, and unless you are willing to call them out for it and challenge them yourself nothing would get done.

    Current car VW Touran SEL

    #141187 Reply
    Mike Cooper

    Congrats Carl you were the victim and no part of the cock up was down to you.The correct outcome was achieved so well done you for your perseverance.

    #141229 Reply
    Lord Muc

    What colour combo on the GC did you go for?

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