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As many of us run electric cars, I wonder if we will go down the electric route again when our leases are up or revert back to Petrol/Hybrid. AP´s will be a factor of course.
From my perspective, overall I am still very happy, cheap charging, only 1 real issue when using fast chargers, and a bonus of cheap electric to use for 4 hours. Home charging at cheap rates and a good range are the key issues. The infrastructure does need to be developed, rapidly, and current electric prices do not make the switch viable for many.
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Absolutely right, AtoB_Dude. The MPG figures quoted for PHEVs are meaningless. Everything depends on your own pattern of use. Most of our use is within the electric range of about 25 miles and I keep the car charged up every night, so I’m not using any petrol from day to day. Our last car the similarly performing 2 litre BMW X1 would have been doing mid to late 30s mpg for the same usage. On long journeys once the battery is used up the Volvo averages about 44mpg where our old BMW would be getting 48mpg or more. Pretty good for a car with the extra weight of the battery and motor. I’m happy that on balance using the Volvo saves us money compared with the X1, and I very much enjoy the quiet and effortless ride round town…
I would definitely consider a PHEV next time, but would have to do the maths first to see if the much greater AP is worth it as an offset to the fuel savings. Also, whilst the EV mode is quiet, most seem to have 3 pot petrol engines, so won’t be as refined in petrol mode as what we are currently used to (as you will know, the BMW 2.0i engine is near silent in almost all driving conditions) and, as you say, you are lugging all that extra weight around.
There’s one thing that I’m in a quandary about PHEV’s though and perhaps you can answer it for me? As I understand it, PHEV’s are primarily designed to be driven in the mode where the car automatically switches between petrol and electric. That way the engine and the battery work together to give the stated bhp. If the power split is say 160bhp petrol plus 80bhp electric (giving 240bhp combined) if you use the electric only mode you are driving a very heavy car with just an 80bhp engine. I can see that making sense if you live in a very built up area and most journey are slow and stop-start, but we are semi-rural and are on clear 40-60 mph roads within minutes. We are also a few miles from a motorway that we use frequently. I’m concerned that full EV mode won’t be as sensible for us given how we use our car (I don’t fancy driving a heavy 80bhp car for all our shorter journeys) and therefore would most likely want to utilise the petrol engine and battery together most of the time. What I don’t understand is if you use the car like that, what would be the petrol mpg equivalent when you deduct from the mpg shown in the car the daily recharging cost?
Even using Pure EV mode, on the Volvo, if you accelerate beyond the electric motors ability to make progress, the car will switch to normal hybrid mode and the engine will start. You are not left without power. One of my routes out of Bournemouth is on an upward incline with a 50 limit for a couple of miles. Until I get to the end of the 50 limit, the car will choose to stay on battery, once I accelerate up to 70 the engine kicks in. In normal hybrid mode the engine will cut in and out when needed. It’s surprising how much it’s not needed. On a long journey the car is putting energy back in the battery and using it up again, so like a normal hybrid, and the engine will stop if there’s battery to use and demands are low. I think that goes a long way to compensating for the extra weight and why our MPG figures are good.
The 3 cylinder engine on the Volvo is noticeable in low speed driving (with a depleted battery) but otherwise not particularly otherwise unless you go full throttle when it’s not unpleasant just different.
On any journey, the journal in the Volvo app shows how much battery you’ve used, how much has gone back into the battery and how much petrol you’ve used. Every trip’s different of course so it’s hard to quantify.
A journey to my daughter’s starting with a full battery, and the return journey with a depleted battery..
There’s one thing that I’m in a quandary about PHEV’s though and perhaps you can answer it for me? As I understand it, PHEV’s are primarily designed to be driven in the mode where the car automatically switches between petrol and electric. That way the engine and the battery work together to give the stated bhp. If the power split is say 160bhp petrol plus 80bhp electric (giving 240bhp combined) if you use the electric only mode you are driving a very heavy car with just an 80bhp engine. I can see that making sense if you live in a very built up area and most journey are slow and stop-start, but we are semi-rural and are on clear 40-60 mph roads within minutes. We are also a few miles from a motorway that we use frequently. I’m concerned that full EV mode won’t be as sensible for us given how we use our car (I don’t fancy driving a heavy 80bhp car for all our shorter journeys) and therefore would most likely want to utilise the petrol engine and battery together most of the time. What I don’t understand is if you use the car like that, what would be the petrol mpg equivalent when you deduct from the mpg shown in the car the daily recharging cost?
As with everything each car is made slightly differently. I had one before going fully EV and that worked best if I took control of what was powering the wheels. Anything over 40mph I had the engine do the work, anything below and it was electric. Also, around town I’d go electric for as far as possible, just because that’s the most relaxing and efficient way to do it. For long journeys, I’d stick with petrol all the way, saving electric until I’d left the last main/high speed road. Once driving around the destination town, the electric would kick in and, at the point where I needed it most, the relaxing drive would be available.
Others only really have limited ability to decide which power was doing what and some used the electric to boost the petrol which was helpful getting around lorries going uphill but not so much when you get where you’re going to a flat(ish) battery.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
Just so, MFillingham. If I go to central London ( from Bournemouth) once I’m out of local traffic, I will hit the save battery button until I get back to slow traffic at the other end. So much calmer driving in London on battery. If I’m lucky and judge it right I can do the same in reverse and arrive home with zero miles left without the engine starting for the local bit.
Flippers, I don’t think we should worry about 2030 or 2035. Car manufacturers will want to sell cars to meet their customers needs, not those of the politicians, and customers will want cars they can use as they do now. Pressure will be brought to bear and dates will quietly be allowed to slip until infrastructure and technology catches up.
I agree….At least I can be hybridised in some form untill 2035 or far beyond if I choose to.
On any journey, the journal in the Volvo app shows how much battery you’ve used, how much has gone back into the battery and how much petrol you’ve used. Every trip’s different of course so it’s hard to quantify.
Understand. In all honesty, once practicality issues are satisfied (boot space, equipment etc) my number one deciding factor by some margin will be a car that I enjoy driving (which won’t necessarily be the cheapest to run), but running costs are clearly a consideration. The fact that our petrol BMW delivers at least 5mpg better fuel economy than our previous diesel VW was an unexpected surprise, but I’d still much prefer it even if was 10mpg worse ?
I guess that the answer to my question about running costs is pence per mile. Dead easy to work out with an ICE car (cost of fuel divided by miles driven) but more complex with a PHEV, as you also have to add in recharging costs. I’m sure they still work out much cheaper, but I’m unclear just how much cheaper. Then, of course, you have to factor in the higher AP. My brain is now hurting and I now realise why I generally make car decisions with my heart rather than my head ?
That is the thing though as flippers says it boil down to the three C’s, Comfort, Convenience and Cost? an the fact we all differ hugely is also the part we all don’t explain fully and is quite important to any decisions.
As time ticks on the scheme will offer less in the way of hybrid ice cars, unless the deadline is pushed back by the government, imo 7 years to go to 2030 is no time really, but on the other hand things in your life can change very quickly also, but look at high speed broadband rollout or 5g etc and this will all be the same and we are seeing that, so that has to be taken into account also.
Often when I have looked at scheme cars to get, there only has been 2 options to test drive after all the boxes have been ticked that needed ticking at the time and are important to us.
I do think the kona was great value and their are always some that always stickout as good deals, but do they have ACC is one main thing I look for now. As that has made a huge difference to my pain levels and I’d not get a car without it. Often they come as an extra on some cars as part of a pack and that puts them of the shortlist.
I would maybe of got a kona if we could charge at home even though i don’t really like the huge plastic arches much.
As per wigwam we are the same in that sense. My longer trips are often house to house 120 or 200 miles each way. I go, I come back. I have no need to stop along the way and I have no provision for plugging in at the other end. So petrol does it for me and also we have no real ability to charge at home, except for maybe a zoe, but thats way to small for us a family of 4.
I can imagine though after 2030 my street will have chargers running out over the pavements from the houses everynight and I duuno if i could do that physically and put down one of those trip hazard things and it’s likely many will be stolen. Geez at our old house we had the outside door mat stolen. A lot nicer where we are now.
I know it’s an extreme vision but i don’t see on street chargers coming to my area anytime soon or if they do at as low a cost as at home charging. I am sorted for the next good few years and maybe beyond, but who knows what tomorrow holds or even later today.
The one thing i did think always about phev is that you’re paying for 2 full systems and then dragging 2 systems around and that maybe just having one will in most occasions workout the most economical, but it’s more complex than that, but weight does play a small factor in mpg. Maybe the positives it gives you can be outweighed and i do find that with the hybrid i have now.
It is rather light and has quite a bit of plastc trim and more road noise, as less sound proofing, but that gives better mpg and offsets the 48v battery and other stuff needed to run the hybrid system and it cost 25k the new one is cheaper but imo reflects the fact it doesn’t have a full automatic gear box and would cost me an extra £2,382.39 if I bought it today due to added interest. I bought some window wind deflecter and they have helped a bit when i have the window open abit.
All in all though, it’s good to findout and sahre infomation that’s constructive and after all whatever you do or get it’s because it works for you best and I have no issues at all, with anyone even spending huge amounts on ap’s if it’s good with them, but from many others perspectives when you spend it in one place it takes from other places and that could mean for us, the few holidays in the uk during the school hols we have not happening.
Having gone full EV, I’d say my next car will be either an ice or hybrid/PHEV, depending on the usual caveats of cost, on Motability or not and what’s available come mid 2024. I’ve done 15000 miles in my Soul EV over the last 18 months, some good, some not so good. I don’t find it more comfortable than my last car, quite the opposite, it’s louder, harshly sprung and small seats vs the S-Max (which sadly is no more…).
I have averaged 3.2miles per kw, I live in the countryside and so it rarely sees a town let alone a city. Dual carriageways and motorways are a huge weakness, under 65 is a must unless you like charging. I find that so dull on a long journey. Charging at home is great, shortish journeys again, great, longer journeys are a pain, the seats are too unsupportive and the ride is very harsh. Noisy too once at 65. Charging away from home has been not so good, downright awful and a major reason to change as we do like a long journey, South of France was a common jaunt from here in Northern Scotland prior to Covid. Finally winter really drains the car, especially in the cold Scottish mornings, most trips are turning out 2.5-2.7m per kw, just too low for me,
likes: currently running costs are less, the instant 200bhp is fun and the sound system is awesome. The preheat is handy as is utility mode where you can sit in the car for an hour with everything on, audio, heating, hot seats etc and only loose 1 mile of range.
Finally, unless you spend big £££s the EVs are all depressingly small, this is the smallest car I’ve had, ever, and it’s been an issue several times especially as our boot has to take a dog on nearly every trip, so it’s out of action, unlike a larger car where I could half load the boot and leave space for the dog in the rest ( load lashed down of course).
In life, it's not who you know that's important, it's how your wife found out.
I have been interested to read peoples experience of ranges, 170 miles in an Enyaq on the motorway, the comments on the Soul above, the ID.3 comments detailing ranges of 220-280 typically with a WLTP of 336 and so on. Then I contrast with my experiences, up to 360 in the summer/autumn and the lowest. around 250 on a cold wet winters day on the motorway. Since the cold snap ended I am achieving around 4.7-4.8 which is over 300 miles per charge. This is based on a southern climate, perhaps driving style has something to do with it also, however, like ICE cars, certain cars perform better than the WLTP and others far worse.
Always remember its how you drive an EV that determines the range, similar to an ICE wtih the MPG. I can easily get another 30 miles if i stick it in eco mode and stay under 60 mph but then it`s just not enjoyable. I have mine in either standard mode or sport mode, far more enjoyable to drive but the range does suffer obviously although i still get around 3m per kwh, in driving miss daisy mode i can achieve well over 300 in the summer without trying but then life would just be dull lol.
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Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
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Scale modeller in my spare time
----------------------------Indeed, Stuart, all my comments above are with the car never exceeding 65mph and always in ECO, I have an ECO score of 96% on the dash, the rest Standard, no Sport…lol. Always have aircon on and temp set to 19 deg.
I do put it in Standard for a longer drive (over 60 miles) as it stops the abrupt regen from robbing power and slowing you down too much.
This morning’s 30 mile run was 2.5kw/m…with preheat. I did have to have the blower up a bit for the first half as the car was fogging up even with AC on, the HVAC is a bit limp with two of us and a large dog in the car. Back to lowest possible blower setting (the default for me) for return home on my own.
In life, it's not who you know that's important, it's how your wife found out.
Quite possibly the difference is between congested warmer Southern driving and open road Northern Scottish…temps this morning were 1 deg, heavy frost. As stated, I do virtually no town driving. Today for example, my Wife’s commute, a few hundred yards from home to a 40mph stretch for a mile or so then dual carriageway for 13ish miles, then a mile of 40 zone to drop wife at work and then turn around and go home.
Work for me is currently at home, but was usually 82 mile round trip, 7-8 miles in city, rest open dual carriageway.
In life, it's not who you know that's important, it's how your wife found out.
I have been interested to read peoples experience of ranges, 170 miles in an Enyaq on the motorway, the comments on the Soul above, the ID.3 comments detailing ranges of 220-280 typically with a WLTP of 336 and so on. Then I contrast with my experiences, up to 360 in the summer/autumn and the lowest. around 250 on a cold wet winters day on the motorway. Since the cold snap ended I am achieving around 4.7-4.8 which is over 300 miles per charge. This is based on a southern climate, perhaps driving style has something to do with it also, however, like ICE cars, certain cars perform better than the WLTP and others far worse.
Like all cars, you get what your driving deserves. If you drive conservatively, take the utmost care and use regen to stop the car, even over longer distances, accelerate gradually and avoid the usual red flags for consumption, you’ll get further, bored but further. However, if you hoon around like a teenager trying to be a rally star with lights, heating, stereo and everything else on full chat, you’ll get half the distance in a quarter of the time with a grin from ear to ear until you pay for the top up.
More realistic, if you’re at a constant speed, 70 isn’t a great idea, 65 saves you quite a bit and 60 some more. If you’re already reading the road ahead you can lift off and let regen bring you to a better speed before having to brake. Around town, I find that when there’s a lot of pedestrians around, I’m barely getting to 20 before twitching at people likely to be crossing without looking. Too many people don’t understand that the funny whining noise is 2 tonnes of metal coming up behind you until they step out, see you out of the corner of their eye or, worse, jump feet as a horn goes off. With the laws going the way they are, you’d have to prove you did everything possible to avoid taking out the idiot, even if it was obviously their fault, so defensive (slow) driving in and around pedestrian heavy areas is a necessity.
All in all, if you drive at 60-65 on a run, don’t accelerate like it’s a race (too often) and allow the regen to do most of the slowing for you, you’ll get the best your car can give.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
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