Dead Battery

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  • #185290 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    Does anyone know anything about batteries?

     

    Occasionally I still manage to do kayaking, although I can’t paddle so I use a Bixpy electric motor. During the lockdown, I could not go kayaking so the motor and the battery pack sat in the garage. I went to charge it up and it is completely dead and will not charge. I just did not realise that you had to keep these types of batteries charged like a car battery.

    I tried the supplier of the Bixpy battery and motor and they only sell the complete kits so I tried Bixpy themselves who are based in the USA, and a new battery is $599 dollars. Even If I could afford that they will not ship to the UK so I am stuck.

    I have opened the battery pack up to look at the batteries thinking that I might be able to replace them but it’s not just a battery pack, it has the auto-shutdown function if you get separated from the kayak and the remote control mechanism in there. So there are wires everywhere and it’s beyond me.

    Does anyone know if anything can be done with it please?

    • This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by wmcforum. Reason: Moved to off topic
Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 27 total)
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  • #185296 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    Hi Pirots, I would hazard a guess they are lithium batteries which need to be kept at a certain level of charge. When you stored the Bixby over lockdown was the battery pack fully charged or at least 50% charged. If you have left then with little to no charge it is possible they have gone beyond the point of shutdown/cut off and the voltage is to low for the charger to recognize it, normally below 3.4V,

    This usually happens when the battery hasn’t being used for a long time. However you can revive the battery if the battery isnโ€™t completely dead. You need to give more potential difference to do so all you need is a bigger power adapter (charger) to push the power in that battery (jump start). Or you can try and leave it on charge for a day or so depending on the size of the battery pack hopefully getting your battery to recognise the charger.

    If the voltage has got to low and the cells have dried out there is nothing you can do other than refurbish your current battery pack yourself or if you know someone, or buy a new one.

    Finally are you sure your charger is working as it should.

    Post a picture if you still got the battery pack opened.

    #185292 Reply
    Rene

    You actually shouldn’t keep them charged, they need to be “storage charged”. You’d want them at around 50%, for longevity, in storage.

    Having a quick look at the package they sell, you can already tell that it’s not as simple as “unplugging cells and putting new ones in”. A gifted electrician might be able to order the correct cells and replace the over-discharged ones, but as a layman, you shouldn’t try. Lithium Ion cells are no joke, a mistake can lead to spontaneous combustion (puncturing their wrap, for example).

    If that option doesn’t exist for you, the only other one would be to get a new battery pack. The real issue is the price there, the fact that they don’t send to the UK can be circumvented by “parcel forwarding”, there’s webpages on the internet where you can create an account, and get introduced to people in the US who offer to forward your parcel internationally (for a fee).

    Here’s a few examples.

    https://www.stackry.com/en/home

    https://www.reship.com/

    I’ve used stackry for a remote controlled car in the past.

    #185301 Reply
    Wigwam

    Assuming Lithium Ion – if the battery was working ok before it was stored, it can be recovered quite easily, but not by using the supplied charger which is designed not to charge a fully depleted battery.ย  Not knowing the details of the battery pack, I can’t advise how, but a battery specialist will be able to do it.ย  You almost certainly will not need to replace the cells.

    #185304 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    A gifted electrician

    Gosh Rene I never thought you would look upon me as gifted ๐Ÿ™‚

    #185313 Reply
    struth
    Participant

    yeah ive a charger that can bring back near dead batteries. it basically hits the battery with a higher power for a very short period just to lift it enough off zero so it can be charged.

    the noco genius series can use its all-new Force Mode that allows you to take control and manually begin charging dead batteries down to zero volts.

     

    they do various ones for home market but they aint cheap. i use mine for scooter batteries.

    but there are as said, companies who could try for you.

    Current Car: Hyundai Kona Premium EV...2 way 40kg hoist
    Last Car: Toyota C-HR Excel Hybrid...4 way 80kg hoist

    #185319 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    Thanks for the responses.

    I would imagine they are lithium batteries with it being so lightweight.

    The battery pack was fine before it was not used. I had only used it twice before lockdown came in.

    I would have thought that it’s completely flat now. It probably had about 25% charge when I left it and when I tried to charge it the charger lit up but the battery did nothing. I did leave it on overnight but still nothing and that was about 9 months ago.

    I have read that you can shock them so I thought of maybe connecting it to a car battery or my car battery charger but there is no usual positive and negative.

    I am away visiting friends until next Sunday so I will post pics of the battery pack open when I get back.

    Interesting about parcel forwarding. I have often wished I had a friend in the states. Do you get hit with vat? I know you can put it down as a gift but do not know if this works?

     

     

    #185320 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    Do NOT connect it to your car battery.

    I’ll help you out in that part, what you have inside the charger is a 7s6p (7x series, 6x parallel) 18650 brick, 42 cells in total. Each one 4.2V 2200 mah, for a total of 25.2V, 13.2AH/332Wh.

    Just get another one with similar specs (not less than 13AH/330Wh – more would be okay, and voltage needs to be 25.2 as well as 7x6p since we don’t know what the balance board/battery management in the battery is looking for).

    I’ll have a look in a second myself, gotta pick up the wife first.

    I think both Struth and Wigwam are irresponsible beyond belief, Struth suggesting a charger that’s not able to charge your battery in the first place, and Wigwam suggesting that the batteries are “recoverable” – they’re not. They’re irreparably damaged. You could get them to take charge again, but the damage doesn’t go away, that’s done and dusted – LiIon batteries take physical as well as chemical damage internally when deep-discharged, and that can’t be repaired since you can’t open those batteries. They’ll catch fire (violently so) at contact with oxygen.

    Those are the batteries inside your pack, 42 of them. First rule in regards to anything to do with 18650s or 21700s: don’t screw with them.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #185325 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    @Rene be careful suggesting just get another one with similar specs the chances are the battery pack needs to be waterproof.

    It is also a viable to “jump start”ย  Lithium batteries with the correct charger as long as the cells have not dried up causing leakage as you mention. Unlike other batteries lithium have no real memory effect other than digital that can be reset.

    All lithium batteries are dangerous in the wrong hands, but treated with care they are not a problem.

    #185337 Reply
    Wigwam

    Rene, you have no way of knowing the state of the cells any more than I do. The charger will not respond if they are below whatever voltage the battery management system is set to.ย  They need not be flat and are unlikely to be flat.ย  ย They have just fallen below a threshold.ย  In all likelihood they can be brought above that threshold so that the charger can bring them back up to full voltage. I’ve done it amore than once with laptop battery packs that have not been kept charged and restored them to full use.ย  My advice to Pirots stands – that he should go to a battery specialist. Scare-mongering is not helpful.

    #185884 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    Battery pics

    #185885 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    I put various pics up but only the last one is there.

    #185886 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    #185887 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    #185888 Reply
    Pirots
    Participant

    #185883 Reply
    Pirots

    Battery pics.

     

    #185894 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    @Pirots, I thinks a sensible question first is do you have any soldering skills and knowledge of Ohms law along with a multimeter?

    It is very possible the batteries within the pack are not completely dead and dropped to around 2.6V. It is possible to “jump start” the batteries but you would need a variable output power source where you set the voltage for the pack at 25.2V but up the current so the batteries would begin to charge and then allow your normal charger to takeover in the hope they recover. For safety reasons given the size of the pack an understanding of Ohms law would be preferable and then theres the cost of a variable power source or a larger charger, which could be money down the pan especially if the batteries are below 2volts. Use of a multimeter could determine the average voltage of each battery in the pack.

    You could refurbish your current pack by replacing the individual 18650 batteries but there would be a fair amount of de soldering and soldering involved, ensuring you don’t get any dry joints or apply to much heat to the batteries whilst doing so.

    Even if you bought a generic a generic 7s6p battery pack there would be some soldering, to solder fly leads on etc and the precautions with refurbishing your current pack would need to be taken into account.

    You could ask an electrician or electronics engineer to refurbish your current one or fit a generic 7s6p and do all the soldering for you. But it could prove costly this way unless you new someone.

    Its not difficult to do, but its easy for me to say that as its been my trade for nearly 40yrs. If your confident and would like to have ago and have expectable skills of soldering and an some understanding of Ohms law I’d be willing to guide you through the options. I only say this for your own safety as there are risks if your not sure ๐Ÿ™‚

    Putting all that aside, given you don’t kayak very often would something like these be suitable for your needs. Admittingly they may not be as powerful. They would also more than likely work out cheaper than repairing yours.

    https://www.seriousfishing.com/JRVISWLKR230220223.html?msclkid=096d86a125f017b4976ae42b9aabd15a&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=DI-UK-S2&utm_term=4575823819945020&utm_content=DI%3DUK%3DS2%20-%20fly%20%3E%20electric%20motors

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bison-Electric-Outboard-Trolling-Propeller/dp/B009ZSO1WG/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_i=B009ZSO1WG&psc=1

     

     

    #185903 Reply
    Pirots

    Thanks for the long response.

    I would not be able to solder, since my accident my hands are not very steady.

    I want to get the battery pack working again so I can kayak more often.

    I shall have a search on the net for any battery places that could refurb it and what cost it would be compared to purchasing a new one using parcel forwarding.

    Does anyone know an honest battery place that would refurb it?

    With you saying they could potentially be revived I would be concerned someone would revive them and charge me for new batteries.

     

     

     

    #185907 Reply
    vinalspin
    Participant

    I use 18650’s in all my vaping mods and all a higher capacity than those in your pack so very common thing to find.

    I noticed they are INR cells and will have just dropped below required minimum voltage for your standard charger so with the correct charger they can be revived no problem, plenty of threads on vaping forums about what type of charger to purchase and how to go about it.

    Unless you know how to solder and build a battery pack safely then I would leave that idea well alone, I’ve made a couple to replace some SLA batteries for a scooter using LifeP04 cells and it’s not simple to say the least.

    #185912 Reply
    kezo
    Participant
    #185909 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    I am not sure if the first companies refurbish but its certainly worth asking if they would refurbish yours (18650 7s6p battery pack)ย  or build and install another battery pack for you. Cost wise decent 18650 batteries are around ยฃ3.55 trade/wholesale up to ยฃ10 retail plus Labour and VAT. so something to bare in mind. Is there anyone in your family who is a sparky or into electronic or is there anyone they may know that could do it. If so you could get the batteries wholesale yourself from Fogstar batteries who only sell genuine stuff, as this would cut the mark up a refurb company would put on them.

    http://www.enix-power-solutions.co.uk/custom-battery-packs/

    https://www.pmbl.co.uk/

    https://www.batteriesplus.co.uk/acatalog/Battery_Pack_Refurbishment.html

     

     

    #185918 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    I noticed they are INR cells and will have just dropped below required minimum voltage for your standard charger so with the correct charger they can be revived no problem, plenty of threads on vaping forums about what type of charger to purchase and how to go about it.

    Agreed @vinalspin, but I’m not sure a vaping forum is the right place as there are 42 x 18650’s that need to be “jumpstarted” at the same time.


    @Pirots
    what is the rating on the charger that came with your Bixby or post a pic up ๐Ÿ™‚

    #185920 Reply
    vinalspin
    Participant

    Agreed, not suggesting getting advise about the battery stuff there, just to get info on which charger and where to purchase.

    #185955 Reply
    kezo
    Participant

    Agreed, not suggesting getting advise about the battery stuff there, just to get info on which charger and where to purchase.

    Have you vaped for long, I started 5yrs ago just to get off the fags but I find they taste nothing like the real thing ๐Ÿ™‚

    #185990 Reply
    vinalspin
    Participant

    Since 2010.

    Had gone onto roll + filter about half a dozen years prior but a blood vessel disorder and surgery caused a heart attack which I somehow managed to survive after emergency heart surgery so I thought it best to quit the old tree burning.

    Now it’s more of a hobby, I’ve dropped the nic content down but still keep some as a cognitive aid (I suffer from memory problems due to the cardiac brain hypoxia with the heart attack and nicotine actually helps grow the old gray matter) and for the hit.

    It’s become more of a hobby now with my collection of over 60 mods and even more tanks ๐Ÿ˜

    #185997 Reply
    Pirots

    Pic of the charger.

     

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