- This topic has 93 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 9 months, 4 weeks ago by
.
- Topic
- Replies
Even at -7 still getting 200 miles and its not important. I dont do 200 miles a day, it doesnt matter, I can recharge anywhere. People still worry about something that is inconsequential. I had a diesel focus 12 years ago and would ger 65 mpg easy. Until it winter. One winter was quite bad and I only drove a mile to see my brother and a mile back. I done that for a week, and noticed the car has used half a tank! 2 miles per day for a week and half a tank used. Its not just EV.S. That get hit by cold weather. If you only get 150 miles, its enough, unless you are driving the length and breadth of the country every day…its enough.
Where do I start? I know that you are an EV enthusiast and can’t understand why everyone else isn’t of the same mindset, but to say that range issues are inconsequential is to completely fail to appreciate that not all car users are the same.
It sounds as though, like many Motability customers, you might be a low mileage driver who rarely if ever does long journeys in which case, as long as you can charge at home, an EV is a great option. However, many of us do regular long journeys. I often do long journeys that an ICE car or PHEV can do comfortably within its range, but would necessitate a charging stop with an EV. I would find that charging stop to be a real irritation, adding time and inconvenience to my journey. I have just driven home on the motorway in lashing rain. With a full tank of petrol I had no worries. Had I needed petrol, a 5 minute stop at a petrol station, under a canopy, would have been bad enough, but a recharging stop at a public charger exposed to the elements would have been beyond frustrating.
You often claim that the degradation of range in EVs during colder months is no different to ICE cars. This is simply not true – not even remotely. Of the dozens of ICE cars I’ve had the worst drop in mpg during the winter has been around 10% which, given the huge range of ICE cars to start with, is not a show stopper. You only have to look at the real world winter ranges of EVs, or read owners experiences (including this thread) to see that the picture with many EVs is of an entirely different level of magnitude. You have one of the better EVs available through the scheme, so the impact on you, especially if you are someone who doesn’t do many long journeys, won’t be as significant as it is for others but, for some, it renders the car impractical, as has been stated, in a way that wouldn’t be the case with an ICE car. Even if mpg with an ICE car falls well short of expectations, range will be still be much higher.
Finally, if you had a diesel car that used half a tank of fuel doing 14 miles (one mile each way over 7 days) then you either had a fuel leak or a faulty fuel gauge 😂 It’s great to see your never ending enthusiasm for EVs, but there are many reasons why they remain impractical for many, and to dismiss these concerns or frustrations as inconsequential is IMHO unfair.
I think a lot of people make the switch to an EV for the cost saving. Yes that’s an entirely acceptable reason for some people, but for others its going to be different reasons. Some people will also say that using the heating at winter will use more of the charge for heating the vehicle which is true, but in summer it will also use probably just as much to run air conditioning and to also cool the battery down. Heating on an ICE car is passive and the heat generated by the engine is used to heat the interior of the car, but A/C on will also affect MPG on an ICE vehicle. When it comes to the “Range” displayed on your dashboard with an EV , this from what i can see and have experienced is purely “Hypothetical” and also “Misleading” , which may fool a lot of people into believing they are getting more than what they actually are and could leave them stranded if they don’t check their dashboard regularly. I done my test with a video with a camera strapped to my chest showing that sometimes im getting less than 1 mile per 1% of charge , ranging to around 1.3 miles. Ignore the KW/m readings or the 257 miles range showing on a full charge on your dashboard. Go in your car , drive and see how long you get for each percent and multiply that by 90. We could calculate it for 100%(X100) but we really need to use that last 10% to be able to run the car alarm and be able to open the doors and turn on the vehicle etc. Or if you charge to 80% like they recommend for daily driving, you can multiply that by 70. The numbers won’t be as good as the claimed mileage , or the range shown on your dashboard i can guarantee. Regen braking on this model of car cannot be turned off 100%. It has both a “D” & “B” switch which one person in the garage described as “D” being zero regen braking and just like an ICE car. Where as “B” is the regen modes and could be adjusted by level. Then after having the car for 2 days and returning to the Showroom (complaining of the range) i was told by 2 other people (Staff) that there is always a mild regen applied regardless of the drive mode selected. Preconditioning the cabin and the battery during my testing makes very little difference. Bearing in mind that the majority of people will be driving when it’s daylight and E/V rates don’t apply to you. You are now preconditioning the interior and battery heating at nearly 4X your cheap rate during the night before departing to Tesco for some milk and digestives. Cost savings was never my deciding factor to opt for an EV, which im glad of as i don’t think there will be any savings to be had. It was convenience for my partner that made her opt for an EV. We have quickly learned that having one of these takes a lot of adjustment and extra steps/worry that an ICE vehicle does not. Queuing for 10 mins at the petrol station for £60 of petrol now looks like the better idea. We now have loads of other things to do before departing for a journey. Then also waiting for a charging point to be free at the petrol station/supermarket or wherever, or its broken/out of service. It’s all things that might be acceptable to others, but when you have a serious underlying medical condition then it becomes a far different story.
@Ioniq I’m sorry, but your claim that a diesel car with no faults consumed half a tank of diesel over just 14 miles is just not believable. I completely understand your enthusiasm for EVs, but it undermines your credibility by making such outlandish claims, especially when, in the same breath, you accuse others of doing the same about EVs!
When people start calling those who, for entirely legitimate reasons, don’t share your enthusiasm for EVs names such as “Luddite ostriches” they have completely lost the argument IMO.
You talk about facts, yet your sweeping statements are often devoid of them. Here are a few to ponder. The average lifespan of an ICE car is 14 years and rising. Even today, there are between 3 and 4 new ICE cars being registered versus every new EV. There will still be tens of millions of ICE cars on our roads come 2030. There will be no difficulty whatsoever in obtaining fuel for them, nor for many years beyond that. To suggest that ICE drivers will start to encounter difficulties in a handful of years is pure scaremongering. They won’t.
The stats about the number of petrol stations is also a complete non-arguement. In the 70s almost everyone filled up in local petrol stations as there was no other option. In the decades that followed, along came supermarkets with associated massive petrol stations selling fuel at much lower prices. It was their competitive pricing that resulted in the widespread closure of small petrol stations, as they just didn’t have the buying power to compete. The number of ICE cars rose in that period by tens of millions. In fact in 1970 there was only one third of the cars on the road that there are today. Other than during the couple of tanker driver strikes that I can recall, I’ve not met anyone who has struggled to find fuel for their ICE car, nor will they for many many years to come.
I fully accept that we are on a progressive march towards an EV world, albeit it won’t be at the speed that the current targets suggest, which is why they will have to change. I’m fortunate that I can charge at home, as I do with our PHEV, but I feel really sorry for those who would have to be totally reliant on the expensive public charging network, and I can fully understand why those folk will cling on to their ICE cars for many years to come. I would do the same if I was in their position. Equally, I completely understand that for some people, such as yourself, EVs suit their needs perfectly – and that’s great.
Sometimes it’s good to be able to loosen the blinkers a bit and be able to see that with cars, one size doesn’t fit all and everybody’s needs are different. I really don’t understand all the defensiveness should anyone dare to offer a view that EVs are still some way off being the perfect solution for everyone. We are all adults after all, and able to make our own decisions and have our own opinions.
No towing and with only 1 person in the driving seat. Even the salesman thought i was “embellishing” the numbers i was telling him (without saying so). Last Thursday evening (1 day after picking the car up) i went out at 00:20am so that i had some clear roads with no traffic or hold ups whatsoever and i recorded a video. The weather was bang on 0 degrees and i achieved 1 mile per 1 percent of charge. No heated seats and the temp was set at a modest 19c for the interior. This has been purely town driving and the fastest the car has been was 40 in a 40 zone. After doing the video myself i done a bit of youtubing and it appears that others are seeing the same numbers as i am. It appears that town or motorway driving makes zero difference. On this video from 07:06 , the guy states he has 24% charge which allows 39 kilometers of range. Which works out to around 25 miles. Pretty much identical to what im getting with town driving. Plus i never had the heated seats on and my temp was a bit lower than his. Kinda wish i had done a youtube drive through before committing to the lease.
Good grief.
If you want an ICE get one and sit there feeling smug that you did. If you want a BEV, get one and sit there equally feeling smug. Simple.
Please drop the vitriolic speech guys.
Skoda Enyaq Race Blue
Each to their own, we went EV and absolutely love it. Done 2 very long 800-900 mile UK holidays and didn’t struggle to charge, yes it added a extra 60 minutes to our usual 6.5 hour trip, but that’s only 4 or 5 times a year, we can put up with that.
Being able to charge at home is the big win for us, we don’t even have a night tariff, we just use half price Sundays and we’re still saving over £40 a month. I doubt we’d ever go back to ICE as range and speed of charging are only going to improve.Quite simply my advice for those at all interested in such matters is to (at present prices) keep away from an EV if your unable to mostly home charge otherwise it can be costly
. Gov will imo keep incrementally rollingback their expectations as the consequences of those expectations become clearer
Fill the tank and go until next time it needs filling, been doing it all my life petrol only, never used diesel ever, hopefully I’ll never have to change..
As mentioned do what suits you, your family and lifestyle..
As mentioned do what suits you, your family and lifestyle
If you want to stay on the Motability scheme, in the not to distant future it will be E.V. or nothing.
As mentioned do what suits you, your family and lifestyle
If you want to stay on the Motability scheme, in the not to distant future it will be E.V. or nothing.
Im sure your predicition is correct but imo I suspect your time line may be off
. Gov will imo keep incrementally rollingback their expectations as the consequences of those expectations become clearer
90% and 70 mile range lol
a long time ago we went to Sussex and back to the north east on a full tank of diesel in the winter in our Corsa 1.5D, slowest car I’ve ever seen but it ran forever
As an engineer trained to work on large diesel engined generators as well as vehicles, I feel qualified to say that if you had a diesel car that consumed half a tank of fuel whilst covering under 15 miles, it had either a very small tank or a serious fault. Even doing serious (and slow) off-road work, a diesel Land Rover would do well over 20 MPG.
Current car: MG HS Exclusive in nice shiny black. 🙂
How can you say range is inconsequential? That’s the most selfish thing I have heard in a while! I had a megane with a 280 mile quoted range that did 140 in winter last year…i couldn’t even visit my parents on a 150 mile round trip without having to charge. That is very expensive and time consuming! I was paying 85p kw and to get 75 miles and was costing £25.50! Less than £10 of fuel gets me 75miles in my ZR-V 2.0l hybrid! So if you can’t charge at home 100% of the time it’s very very expensive! When cars can realistically do 250 miles, no matter the weather, then I will be looking at EVs again. For £65 I can fill my 57 litre fuel tank and get 600 miles!! It’s an obvious choice for me!
I have been looking on the Mobility site the difference in claimed range between manufactures and Mobility
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally say the wrong thing.
I have been looking on the Mobility site the difference in claimed range between manufactures and Mobility
evdatabase is probably the most accurate site 🙂
I have been looking on the Mobility site the difference in claimed range between manufactures and Mobility
evdatabase is probably the most accurate site 🙂
Cold weather range is based at -10c with heating, seats and steering wheel all on. The cars should exceed that figure.
There’s always variations between any quoted figures and reality as we each drive differently. Sharp acceleration (because it’s an EV) will crucify the range, as much as it’s fun. Even just pulling out at joining at common speeds can take it out of the car.
Im still officially doing everything wrong, I drive until the battery is low enough to be a concern, then recharge overnight, not keep topping up in 4 hour chunks. Still, driving short runs several times a day, I’m getting over a week’s worth each charge and that’s still £15 ish on pre-pay tariff. When I can finally swap to something built for an EV, that’ll drop costs nicely.
There’s still a bunch of rubbish around driving an EV, mostly by those who resist being pushed into a direction they’re reluctant to take. If you want to make it work, public charging is possible, longer distances are possible without too much inconvenience and we can still rely on the benefits most EVs provide in terms of easier driving, better ride and in car technology.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.