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May be a contentious subject but none the less a vital one to discuss . Do we think that the degrading of the Health Service is due to Tory ineptitude or a deliberate attempt to prepare it for Privatisation, or a bit of both?
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Will Hutton thinks excess deaths are the fault of Osborne? Are those the same excess deaths that are occuring in every other nation too? Or is there perhaps another cause ?
I did put a disclaimer saying “Guardianrag – make of it what you want” ?
B
Wigwam I agree with you we do need an independent commission to work out the best way forward. I would first look at the Scandinavian countries as their funding model is very similar to the UK.
The big difference is that the control over the system is fully devolved to the local authorities rather than centralised. It is highly regulated and there is a consensus as to what is expected of the service.
Wigwam I agree with you we do need an independent commission to work out the best way forward. I would first look at the Scandinavian countries as their funding model is very similar to the UK. The big difference is that the control over the system is fully devolved to the local authorities rather than centralised. It is highly regulated and there is a consensus as to what is expected of the service.
I’m not disagreeing with the idea, but, we can’t even manage it in four bite size chunks let alone split it down to LA level.
As wigwam say’s we need an independant commission that the government are going to listen to. Ontop of that there needs to central funding needs to ge sufficient each year regardless of who’s in power and a stop put to corruption at all levels.
It would be a massive feat to achieve and near on impossible here, when you think our LA’s struggle to empty bins and LA run residential care isn’t the best.
Well the info I keep seeing is people want to lean towards Privatisation. But the detail is in The Small Print. As I previously stated There is A Lot of money to be made in Private Healthcare so The Mail and Telegraph readers would be All for it. However one Big point here is . We have a much Older population and the Cost of Their Healthcare would mean peoples payments would be swallowed up on The Older Generation. Which would be exactly the same as is happening with Old Age Pensions. ie. The Younger Generation are paying the Old Age Pensioners of today. Plus Private would only cover the Basics as is the case with Dentistry. You have to pay on top of your dentistry policies for the expensive jobs. My moto is BEWARE because Any payments having to be made would be The End of NHS As we know it.
The excess death rate is higher in the UK than most of its peer group. Due in no small part to austerity implemented by Osborne & co . Currently top 1% of the population have more wealth than bottom 70% in Tory Britain.
Because of the disparity in wealth distribution in the UK and the associated health problems we should be investing more into the NHS rather than just equaling the average of our peer group.
The more you consider the problems the NHS faces, that are out of its control the more one feels for the staff working there.
“Due in no small part to austerity implemented by Osborne & co . ”
Do you have any evidence to back that claim, Daf?
Wigwam The mess we are in now that’s all the evidence I need. As stated this country is one of the richest countries in the world but has millions of its population having to choose between eating or heating.
A third of our children live in poverty and go to school hungry. There are strikes in the public sector as a reaction to more than a decade of either no pay rise or a below inflation pay rise. At the same time the rich get ever richer.
I could go on as pretty much everything this corrupt moribund inept group of politicians have been involved with has turned into a disaster, but I think you get the picture.
Daf, you could go on and you do. Your opinion on the state of the nation is just that. Your opinion and one you share with many, but life isn’t quite as black and white as you seem to believe.
It’s an opinion based on fact and experience and I always try to “fact check” as it saves a lot of embarrassment.
So you say, but you state opinion as fact and when asked to provide evidence you can’t. An easy trap to fall into when you are so convinced of your worldview.
I’ve presented evidence Wigwam perhaps it’s a case of none so blind as those that will not see. If you are disputing anything I’ve stated just name it and I will tell you where the information comes from and how it’s been fact checked.
As I posted on the 16th:
“Due in no small part to austerity implemented by Osborne & co . ”
Do you have any evidence to back that claim, Daf?”
Still waiting for it.
This topic seems to have taken on a whole new meaning going by the last few comments. Looks like it’s The Tories V The Labour supporters. As I stated in previous post. There are A Lot of Different Opinions and it seems they are down to Which Party you support.
I support no party but it looks like Daf has a strong view opposing the Conservatives in principal.
I’m sure there are a number of sites which are better suited to political discussion than this one. We don’t encourage “party politics” on here. Cheers.
There are A Lot of Different Opinions and it seems they are down to Which Party you support.
I really don’t see either party with a solid plan going forward. Both parties support a varying degree of privatization in one way or another.
It’s as if “privatize” was a dirty word. Every successful European health service mentioned earlier in the thread is privatized, isn’t it?
No, but it is an incorrect word. I believe in the UK we have not adopted the zee but remain loyal to the s.
No, but it is an incorrect word. I believe in the UK we have not adopted the zee but remain loyal to the s.
Escuse me, it looks like I’m having a dull moment on the zee and s?
I was erroneously following kezo’s lead! Or should it be keso?
I thought I was erroneously following your lead….
Would you prefer keso, as I’m often called on here amongs’t others. Which is probably because to the the 1969 film kes ?
Wigwam I think you need to check out the meaning of “Privatise”, then come back to the discussion. In answer to :-
“It’s as if “privatize” was a dirty word. Every successful European health service mentioned earlier in the thread is privatized, isn’t it”?
No they all remain in State control.
Yes, of course they do, Daf. In every case, the state provides the framework within which service providers operate. Where has anyone ever suggested that the NHS would not continue to be controlled by the state?
Well going by The way the Railways have been run under framework you mention. It’s Not doing very well. So the NHS would have the same problems.
No Wigwam nice effort trying to paper over your error but the fact is to “privatise” is to transfer ownership from state to private. Surprised you didn’t realise that given all the privatisation the Tories have instigated .
In 2019 the Tories voted down a motion in Parliament to protect the NHS from privatisation so we know where they stand on the issue.
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