- This topic has 93 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by
.
- Topic
- Replies
@Glos
also take into consideration that only 53% of disabled people have a driving licence compared to 83% non disabled.
To be entirely fair here, that’s misleading. We’re talking the mobility part of PIP here, the part of PIP that’s specifically designed to be spent on transportation. If you can’t afford to spend it because you need the money to pay the bills, then that’s a problem with PIP itself. That part of the benefit is supposed to be spent on a car (or alternatives).
Not misleading at all. There is no legal requirement, or proof required, as to what you use the mobility component for. Many will doubtless use it partly to get around and the major part for other bills. That’s my point. There is no compulsion to have a car or to use Motability.
@Glos also take into consideration that only 53% of disabled people have a driving licence compared to 83% non disabled.
Yes my wife is one of those but we still have a Motability car, which I drive! Doubtless many spouses or partners of disabled folk do the same with private cars as well.
No, there’s no legal proof required, obviously. The point is that “saving that part of PIP” isn’t what it’s supposed to be doing. Hence the name.
If you “need” to save it to get over the rounds, then there’s something not right with either spending habits or the daily living component of PIP.
That makes the entire arguing that you “sacrifice so much in benefits” argument asinine. You’re sacrificing the part that you’re “supposed to” be spending in bus and train tickets. Regardless of how much you want to argue that the “Mobility part” isn’t actually meant to help with that, despite it being written both on the DWP website and on the citizens advice webpage.
In fact, that entire part of PIP is tested. You only get it if you need help with getting around, so yes, it’s very much implied as to how to spend that money, because if you’re disabled but can get around, you don’t get it. If “mobility component” wasn’t obvious enough.
Indeed glos guy, seems if you mention anything other than being on the scheme is it is made out to be such bad idea.
I have spent 1/3 of my 30 years+ driving on the scheme and there’s no way i spent 10k over 3 years every 3 years, on owning a car. some 66.66k over 20 years. As when i sold the cars or traded them in, i got something back as well..
I had a bad credit rating due to not being able to work anymore, so the scheme was a great help, but now i have got back to having perfect credit rating. More options are open to me now than before and that’s what this post was about, the alternatives and it will depend on the individuals needs and means etc.
Not what the benefit over the scheme are to owning oyur own car. but it seems as always it’s turned out that way. Thera’s pro’s and cons to both. What if you have your mobility allowance stopped and then have to leave the scheme as has happened to many. So really it’s a personal choice.
Indeed glos guy, seems if you mention anything other than being on the scheme is it is made out to be such bad idea. I have spent 1/3 of my 30 years+ driving on the scheme and there’s no way i spent 10k over 3 years every 3 years, on owning a car. some 66.66k over 20 years. As when i sold the cars or traded them in, i got something back as well.. I had a bad credit rating due to not being able to work anymore, so the scheme was a great help, but now i have got back to having perfect credit rating. More options are open to me now than before and that’s what this post was about, the alternatives and it will depend on the individuals needs and means etc. Not what the benefit over the scheme are to owning oyur own car. but it seems as always it’s turned out that way. Thera’s pro’s and cons to both. What if you have your mobility allowance stopped and then have to leave the scheme as has happened to many. So really it’s a personal choice.
Spot on Rox. Like you, we have done it both ways as well. Motabilty and private and in fact both at the same time when I was working, so able to make direct comparisons in real time. As you say, pros and cons with both. We went with a Motability car this time, but with ever decreasing choice and ever increasing AP’s we will probably go private next time. It will be nice to have unlimited (within reason) choice and not be restricted to what we are ‘allowed’. If, however, the scheme improves substantially by 2024 then who knows. We might be tempted to stay.
Fully echo the comments of @Glos Guy and @rox
No, there’s no legal proof required, obviously. The point is that “saving that part of PIP” isn’t what it’s supposed to be doing. Hence the name. If you “need” to save it to get over the rounds, then there’s something not right with either spending habits or the daily living component of PIP. That makes the entire arguing that you “sacrifice so much in benefits” argument asinine. You’re sacrificing the part that you’re “supposed to” be spending in bus and train tickets. Regardless of how much you want to argue that the “Mobility part” isn’t actually meant to help with that, despite it being written both on the DWP website and on the citizens advice webpage. In fact, that entire part of PIP is tested. You only get it if you need help with getting around, so yes, it’s very much implied as to how to spend that money, because if you’re disabled but can get around, you don’t get it. If “mobility component” wasn’t obvious enough.
An interesting argument, but it doesn’t quite stand up to scrutiny in the real world. Of course the mobility element is meant to help people get around but the reality, whether you like it or not, is that once in receipt of that benefit you can do what the hell you like with it. The third of recipients who choose a Motability car will (in most part) choose to sacrifice all of it to have a new car, as my wife chose to do. Not an asinine argument. Fact. Of the remaining two-thirds, some will use all of it to fund a private car or to cover bus or taxi fares. However, and this is the important point, many will not use ALL of it for this purpose. In fact, some may only use a tiny proportion of it for that purpose. Whatever you might think, or whatever ideological position you may wish to take, that is the reality. They are perfectly at liberty to do as they wish with it. There is no requirement to evidence how they spend it and no requirement to pay back any that isn’t used for that purpose, so recipients are perfectly at liberty to spend it how they wish and that decision will no doubt be determined by what they consider to be priorities.
We are fortunate that we do not have to exist on benefits but, if we did and faced with a 3% rise in benefits versus a 54% increase in heating costs and all the other rising costs, there is absolutely no way that we would sacrifice £10k of benefits every 3 years on a brand new car. That is an enormous percentage of the total income of those who exist on benefits. We would do as millions of others do (including several of my family members) and knock about in a very low value car at a fraction of the cost. We would undoubtedly use the Mobility element of PIP in major part to help pay other living costs.. You might not like that, but it’s perfectly legal and immensely sensible. There’s no way that we would have a brand new car on the drive and be struggling to heat the house or pay the bills. Much as I love cars, that just wouldn’t make sense to us and a brand new car would feature very low down on our list of priorities in the current climate.
My biggest concern is the rising ap’s and If not much changes I might as well buy something, I’ve actually started looking at cars as i may act soon, so in june when lease hits exactly 2 years i’ll hand it back.
That way I should get a year’s pro rata back on the ap i paid on the car, plus 2 years gcb.
Which should pretty much pay upfront for the servicing for 5 years on a kia, if i do decide to get one the 7 year/100k warranty is very attactive.
I can actually downsize a bit now. So new is an option for us and really there’s not much difference in the price right now between new and nearly new. Plus inflation is going up and i don’t see that changing soon. So prices of new cars in another year maybe even higher than now. So i think now maybe the time for me, while loans are still low.
My brother sold his focus he had for a over a year and has used it to commute into london for what he bascally paid for it, 15k miles i think he said he’d put on it. Alot of that is because you can get the used cars now over the wait for a new car, as we all seeing on the scheme. So is pushing the prices of used cars up.
My other issue and I’ve never extended my lease as i see no value there, at all for me, as you still pay the same for the car. Pretty much the same for paying a high ap on leasing a car, i can only justify that outlay over a certain point, if i am actually buying it..
No way am i anti scheme, but there comes a point where it’s just not as viable as it was and there’s no way i would pay an ap between 3k to 4 k to lease a golf. So that limits options even further. I have no driveway so an ev is not practical at all and as we move closer to 2030 that’s a big part of an decsion i make.
Very sound logic Rox and that’s probably where we will end up in two years time. As you say, for those that can, buying new makes more sense than buying nearly new. Much to my surprise, there are still good deals out there to be had. Like you, I’m not a fan of lease extensions but I would take advantage of them so that there is a seamless transition between the Motability car and new private car. We will make a final decision when we are within 3 months of lease end (thankfully 2 years away) and if we order a new car privately we will extend the Motability lease and then terminate it on the day that we take delivery of the new car, whenever that happens to be.
I had to call Motability today about an unrelated matter and was chatting to the very helpful lady there about the sorry state of the scheme at present and that, sadly, there was every chance that our current Motability car might be our last. She said that she’s hearing that all the time now and whilst she’s confident that things will improve over time she understandably can’t say when that will be.
In fact the majority of people who get the Motability part of pip are not on the scheme.
BirminghamLive reports how Motability says that of the 195,000 eligible people in the West Midlands, only 39,365 people are leasing a vehicle through the scheme. Which means around 155,000 are missing out on the chance to use a vehicle to get to the shops, meet friends or just have a change of scenery.
Which means around 155,000 are missing out on the chance to use a vehicle to get to the shops, meet friends or just have a change of scenery.
Really? There are 1.8 million people nationally who are eligible to use Motability. Only 600,000 chose to do so. Do you really think that the other 1.2m sit indoors all day? Many will use their allowance to fund a private car (new or used) or find that getting around by public transport or taxi is cheaper for them than exchanging their benefits for a Motability car. Others still will have access to other family members cars and don’t need a separate car of their own. There are plenty of ways to get out and about other than by a Motability car. I think you have added 2+2 and come up with 5.
In fact the majority of people who get the Motability part of pip are not on the scheme. BirminghamLive reports how Motability says that of the 195,000 eligible people in the West Midlands, only 39,365 people are leasing a vehicle through the scheme. Which means around 155,000 are missing out on the chance to use a vehicle to get to the shops, meet friends or just have a change of scenery.
My son gets PIP mobility but doesn’t use the scheme, he gets around by using his own vehicle.
don’t forget that all recipients of motability have learnt to drive and are capable of driving
so anyone receiving highest pip award and not using for motability must be mad
let’s run an advert to see if can persuade them
you never see adverts for benefits on Tv
but you do telling you what you could spend your benefit money on
strange…….
Banger-nomics. Been there. It’s like gambling, people only tell you of their wins.
The peace of mind over a Motability car runs far deeper than the financial, it’s about eliminating risk. You have to touch the flame to understand; If you have ever been so scared taking your car for an MOT that it has affected your health, or been in a situation where your car has failed its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds of welding and you have no money, literally no money, no overdraft facility and no credit cards, the only option is to borrow from family, as without your car you have no way of getting to your job as you work shifts and the busses don’t run.
Banger-nomics. Been there. It’s like gambling, people only tell you of their wins. The peace of mind over a Motability car runs far deeper than the financial, it’s about eliminating risk. You have to touch the flame to understand; If you have ever been so scared taking your car for an MOT that it has affected your health, or been in a situation where your car has failed its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds of welding and you have no money, literally no money, no overdraft facility and no credit cards, the only option is to borrow from family, as without your car you have no way of getting to your job as you work shifts and the busses don’t run.
The peace of mind aspect of Motability is unquestionable and probably it’s biggest single benefit. However, I remain at a complete loss as to how those with financial situations that are as dire as you state can have sleepless nights over the prospect of hundreds of pounds of repairs to an old car yet will happily surrender £10,000 of benefits to drive a brand new one through Motability. That’s very odd logic and if I was in that financial position my priorities would be entirely different.
GG If you fail to see, you fail to see. Sad times.
One of the biggest failings of humankind is the inability to put oneself in someone else’s shoes.
That’s unfair. I have family and friends in that position and they run old cars as they can’t afford anything newer. What I am saying is basic maths. Spending £10k to avoid worrying about a bill of hundreds is not something I would do if money was tight. I didn’t study BangerNomics but I did study Economics.
It’s right now 3k to 4k Ap to lease a basic golf on the scheme, is that affordable and acceptable to you then and for those you mention. Where as before i have paid less than £500 ap for a golf…
A car that’s not new is a banger. Anyone who is not on the scheme or leaves the scheme is a fool in your opinion, i guess?
I was one of those people and that was before i got the full mobility allowance and worked, had young kids a morgage etc etc…until i could no longer work, every month i was into my overdraft. So thats the plight of many people not just those with disabilities. Which come april will only get worse for many..
GG is right i’d rarther feed my kids, heat my home than have a nice new car on the drive. I’d get roadside cover just like we have rac cover on the scheme, just like i used to, for piece of mind, if you have a breakdown.
I have never owned a car in 20 years prior to being on the scheme for the last 10 years that needed any welding doing to it… Seems you have a very strange view to actual car ownership and always think the worst of anything other than the scheme. Which has it’s issues right now and thats the problem.
There is no way i will pay or can afford 3k upfront to lease a car, so even my choices are limited not needing a huge boot or an suv but that is big enough for my family.
The scheme is getting worse and worse if you cannot see that then it is sad times, as the ap’s get higher and higher and the allowance lags behind the rate of actual rate of inflation. Thats not really Mb’s fault thats the government’s and i see the gap growing. which leaves many no options that are suitable or affordable.
what’s your advice for them wmc?
Yes it does give you piece of mind but the worry of where i will get the ap from for a car that suits my needs let say it’s only 3k not the 4k for that golf, which is already becoming a worry, of where i will find such an ap, for jun 23
£3000 over 36mnths = £83.33 a month (on top of the allowance for the 3 years) i’ll have to find. where do the many you point out find that..
Thats what you fail to understand and is the bigger issue. Many cannot now get the car they require due to the cap or cannot afford the huge aps. What should they get a car that’s not suitable for there needs or they don’t like driving for instance.
Ap’s that have risen at least 6x higher are not sustainable for me or many. The truth needs to be told and for many, the scheme is becoming less viable.
If you cannot see that then you cannot see that?
Banger-nomics. Been there. It’s like gambling, people only tell you of their wins. The peace of mind over a Motability car runs far deeper than the financial, it’s about eliminating risk. You have to touch the flame to understand; If you have ever been so scared taking your car for an MOT that it has affected your health, or been in a situation where your car has failed its MOT and needs hundreds of pounds of welding and you have no money, literally no money, no overdraft facility and no credit cards, the only option is to borrow from family, as without your car you have no way of getting to your job as you work shifts and the busses don’t run.
Chances of a car under 10yrs old these days falling into the banger-nomics and require welding is highly unlikely.
I still standby many of the lower end cars such as the MG ZS 1 litre and Dacia Sandero can be had new cheaper overall than what the scheme offers, even when taking into account servicing etc.
There is no right or wrong way. There are many variable and each persons outlooks finances are different I.E someone is awarded PIP for 5yrs but unsure they will get again. What do they do – use there 16k award over 5yrs and have nothing to show for it at the end or choose to go down the buying route.
When I mentioned Banger-nomics I was referring to Sue’s comment about buying a £461 car from eBay and running it for 6 years.
The situation over a car needing welding – true story. My true story. My Life.
Chances of a car under 10yrs old these days falling into the banger-nomics and require welding is highly unlikely.
Inlands, maybe.
An E46 3 series over here pretty much is guaranteed to require welding. Though after a quick googling it’s slightly older than 10 years, so they might’ve fixed that on subsequent models – but here where i live, a mile away from the sea, cars rust. Quickly indeed. Our SEAT MY19 was brown underneath within half a year. Of course, not rusted through, but it’s just a matter of time.
And you’re right, Dacias etc can be had cheaper than they’re offered on the scheme – but that’s because they’re exceptionally cheap to buy new.
More importantly though, it not just depends on your monetary situation, but also the kind of injury. Many people require certain things, like us for example needing “the right seat” for my wife. A worn seat is simply out of the question, indeed many new seats don’t work for her either (that’s why we had to go for a “hot hatch”, because the seat locks her in).
On top, many people require adaptations. A lift can double or even triple the price/value of a banger.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.Here’s a very recent BangerNomics example. My 85 year old mother-in-law (who lives solely on state pension and benefits) had run around in an S reg (1999) VW Passat Estate for around 12 years. She had to fork out a few hundred quid in maintenance costs each year but it was still incredibly cheap motoring.
At the cars last MOT, at 22 years old, the repairs became uneconomical so she binned it and bought a 2009 VW Golf Estate with 161,000 mikes on the clock for £1k. Unfortunately, after just one month (whilst still getting used to the car) she managed to scrape it down the side of a stone wall (she lives out in the sticks). She got a quote for repairs of £750. As she doesn’t intend to drive for much longer, she went to her insurers who, as we expected, said that the car was uneconomical to repair and would be written off. They offered her £2,000 for the car (they didn’t ask about the mileage which, come to think of it, insurers don’t, so they had obviously valued it on average mileage).
Now here’s where it gets bizarre and I still don’t understand it (never having written a car off myself, thankfully). As it was a category N write off (cosmetic only) they let her buy the car back for just £200 so, after paying that and her £50 excess she had the car back plus £1,750. She put the car in for repair (cost £750) and now has the repaired car back plus £1,000 in her pocket. As she had protected No Claims Discount, her insurance continued unaffected. I still can’t get my head around it as it seems nuts to me, but that’s what’s happened!
I think it all depends on each indivuduals needs if staying on the scheme is still beneficial or not.
If you do low miles and dont require little or no adaptions then leasing or PCP could be the better option.
As for second hand well its a lottery you can buy a £500 banger and have no trouble or spend £10k and get a dog.
The trouble in general at the moment is the lack of avialabilty be it through mobility, buying new or over inflated secondhand values.
One can only hope that things begin to improve.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.