How things have changed

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  • #169061 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Just to illustrate the sharp and rapid decline in the Motability scheme over the past few months, I have just checked my short list from March when we ordered our current car and compared it to the situation today, just 8 months later;

    Audi Q3 – Removed from Scheme

    Mercedes GLA – Removed from Scheme

    Ford Kuga ST-Line X PHEV – AP has increased by £950

    Volkswagen Tiguan Elegance – Removed from Scheme

    Volvo XC40 T5 Recharge – AP has increased by £1,200

    BMW X1 20i xLine 4WD – AP has increased by £500

    If we were ordering today we would still choose the same car, which thankfully is still available and has ‘only’ gone up by £500, but what a massive difference in just 8 months. I’m very relieved that we didn’t extend our previous lease.

    Only time will tell if the cull in vehicle choice and the massive AP hikes are down to the chip crisis or, as I fear, only part of the cause and masking a much bigger issue.

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #169063 Reply
    Lord muc

    Exactly, the BMW gran coupe has shot up in AP, and the leather seats are now a paid option. All my old choices have been removed, hoping Mercedes make a return in the new year, but fear the APs will be crazy. Its looking like an EV when that time comes around in 18 months, just hope, that there will some interesting ones, at decent APs, if the scheme can move forward.

    #169065 Reply
    Jojoe

    Car we bought, Octavia Estate e-Tech Technology mild hybrid DSG, has gone up by £1000 since q2. Seriously thinking of ditching Motability over the next year or so. If we buy an EV on the open market we could finance it over 5 years and then we own it!

    #169067 Reply
    brydo

    Jojoe over the next year or so you will find a greater number of EV ex company cars coming to the market so there should be a greater choice available.

    If you stay in Scotland the government is giving up to £20,000 in the form of interest free loans, over five years, for second hand EV purchases.

    #169068 Reply
    Jojoe

    brydo, my grandad was a shipbuilder on the Clyde, my Nan was from a small village on the shores of Loch Ness, they moved to England in the 60’s. I’d move up there tomorrow but Mrs Joe says no.

    Finger crossed 🤞🏼 interest free loans may become available in England in the future  🙏

    #169071 Reply
    brydo

    Sounds like you have great genes jojoe and if you ever decide to move north you’ll be more than welcome.

    #169073 Reply
    Paul

    Do manufacturers look at each others prices,?with the attitude  ‘well if they have put theirs up by X amount  we can’.For example volvo xc40 price rise i think being the largesr one ,but you could argue from their point of view,if ford vw can raise theirs, then  our product  should be more so we will raise ours..

     

    #169076 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Finger crossed 🤞🏼 interest free loans may become available in England in the future 🙏

    I wouldn’t hold your breath on that one joejoe, but thankfully interest rates are at an all time low and so loans are cheaper now than they’ve ever been!

    #169078 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Jojoe over the next year or so you will find a greater number of EV ex company cars coming to the market so there should be a greater choice available. If you stay in Scotland the government is giving up to £20,000 in the form of interest free loans, over five years, for second hand EV purchases.

    I’ve wonder if anyone buying a second-hand EV are taking into account the cost of new batteries when they start to ware out.

    https://tinyurl.com/nzkbwvcf

     

     

     

    #169079 Reply
    Brydo

    Chris Most manufacturers have a five to eight-year warranty on their battery. However, the current prediction is that an electric car battery will last from 10 – 20 yearsbefore they need to be replaced.

    #169080 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Chris Most manufacturers have a five to eight-year warranty on their battery. However, the current prediction is that an electric car battery will last from 10 – 20 yearsbefore they need to be replaced.

    That’s good to hear, as I had previously read that most wouldn’t last much more than 7 to 8 years. Whilst that’s not an issue for Motability customers, I had wondered about people buying EV’s privately. With the cost of EV batteries currently I should think that, with all but the most expensive luxury EV’s, the cost of a replacement battery will be more than the car is worth at that time.

    #169081 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Hi Brydo

    It’s odd isn’t it because with most consumer goods be it phones, cordless vacuums etc., the batteries are only covered for limited time that does not correspond to the overall guarantee time of the product.

    Can’t find the paperwork at this time for my KIA but I’m sure from memory the 7 year warranty for this ICE car only covers the battery for 2 years.

    I wonder how EV manufactures are able to give such guarantee to there batteries?

     

    #169083 Reply
    Brydo

    That’s correct the battery is by far the most expensive single item in an EV and we are still in early days with EVs to know for certain how long they will last.
    Tedla are talking about their batteries lasting 1 million miles and many manufacturers are suggesting the battery will outlast the car.

    #169084 Reply
    Capuchin

    To be fair to Mercedes they have some major issues on the CLA/GLA based platform. I know a guy buying privately who’s been waiting just over a year for his CLA45. It’s insane.

    The batteries with long warranty have a limited mileage warranty. To my knowledge, only Hyundai have a 5 year unlimited warranty on them.

    #169085 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    Tedla are talking about their batteries lasting 1 million miles and many manufacturers are suggesting the battery will outlast the car.

    That’s because unlike most people, they understand how their batteries work and that this claim is complete nonsense.

    This is marketing. Of course a car battery lasts a million miles. The more interesting question is, how many (fast) charging cycles does the battery withstand without degradation. Batteries mainly degrade through charging/over-discharging. That’s why you get told to not charge over 80% capacity, and not drive it down to 0%. So, if you take charging out of the equation, yeah, they’ll hold for a million miles.

    And yes, ALL EV batteries outlast their cars. They don’t get scrapped, but re-purposed. Even batteries that hold less than 50% charge, and in low current applications they’ll last for another 30 years. But not as a propulsion battery for a car, because they’d be too damaged for that.

    It’s probably reasonably safe to buy a “new-ish used car”, not older than maybe 5 years. Everything above, you certainly should put money aside for a new battery, because the main issue is that you can’t judge the battery by A: a short test drive or B: by looking at the mileage. The mileage is barely an indicator for battery condition. If given the opportunity, i can bring an EV battery below 70% capacity within the warranty period and not have even 15.000 miles on the clock.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #169087 Reply
    Elliot
    Participant

    Unless things change dramatically, this will be my last Motability car. At the moment there is nothing on the scheme that remotely interests me and there are some very tempting deals with private leasing companies. This could of course change by the time I’m due to change but somehow I think we are going to see these high AP’s for very average cars as being a permanent thing now. I think the manufacturers see Motability as a way of helping them achieve emission  targets by offering cars with low performance engines eg. 5008’s with 1.2l petrol engines. I can now get a decent car privately without having to put down £5k upwards upfront. I know the monthly cost will be higher but the gap is certainly closing, plus I get a much wider choice of car. With my last lease car I went for a fully inclusive package which made it worry free and I got a good deal on the insurance. I look after my cars so sending it back wasn’t an issue regarding getting charged for damage. Don’t get me wrong, I love the car I’ve got on the scheme at the moment but I’ll be shocked if anything as good comes back on in the future at a competitive price.

    #169088 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    The batteries with long warranty have a limited mileage warranty. To my knowledge, only Hyundai have a 5 year unlimited warranty on them.

    Interestingly, I had to buy a new battery for one of my daughters cars the other day (2015 Ford Focus) and the one I bought from the AA has a 5 year warranty. No upper mileage limit but a minimum requirement of 1,500 miles a year.

    As for EV batteries, they will have to last the entire life of the car (or drop massively in cost) for this not to be a major stumbling point in the second hand EV market IMHO. Nobody who buys an older second hand car wants a potential bill of thousands of pounds, especially if the bill is more than the car is worth. In that scenario they would be better off scrapping the car and starting again. With EV’s still being fairly new we haven’t really come up against this problem yet, but it will need resolving quickly. I’m sure that, over time, battery life will improve and replacement costs will fall drastically and this current dilemma will be resolved.

    Anyway, this wasn’t meant to be yet another EV thread as there’s no shortage of those already on this forum!

    #169090 Reply
    Lord muc

    Elliot, pretty much how I feel, I wouldn’t lease, but definitely thinking of buying a Mercedes CLS or such, when the values drop. it’s quite sad, that motobility seem to going down the route of high APs and forcing folks to take cars on lease, that may be better value for them to buy outright.

    #169096 Reply
    Brydo
    Participant

    I don’t think we can take things, as they are now, as any indication of how things will be in the future. Due to chip shortages the number of cars being manufactured has dropped dramatically, as a result the manufacturers hold all the cards they don’t need motability sales so they will be playing hard ball with discounts.

    Motability on the other hand have customers to service and need to take what they can get to keep those customers, if of not happy, content. They can’t afford to have customers leaving in droves.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    #169098 Reply
    POPS
    Moderator

    Just to offer a comparison …. My son has just taken a 3 year lease on a Seat Leon Excellence hybrid 204bhp hatchback which is a very well equipped car. He’s a financial manager so you can imagine that he’s sharp on identifying the best deals. He settled for a £4ooo advanced payment which was the cheapest calculated option. AP’s from about £1000 were available but were more expensive over a 3 year lease.

    He pays £154 per calendar month, and his insurance is just under £400 per year for both himself and his partner combined. Road tax is paid for by the leasing company. He also pays a very small repair and maintenance premium for peace of mind.

    I love Motabilty so I’m not advising people to look elsewhere but I do understand and share the concern of posters about the current choice and AP’s on offer ,which is why I’ve posted an alternative for those of you who are able to get a private leasing deal.

    #169099 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Good example Pops. In addition to private leases, another option (for those who are financially able) is to take out a PCP in order to get the maximum manufacturer, dealer and finance company discounts, but then (once you have the car) pay off the loan. You keep all the discounts and are not tied to mileage limits, condition on hand back etc as you own the car. I’ve done it a few times and, as previously reported, I was able to run a brand new BMW 5 Series for the same overall cost (ALL costs included) as my wife’s Motability Tiguan (slightly less in fact).

    I appreciate that many Motability customers who are intent on having a brand new car every 3 years are in a financial position where the scheme is their only option, but it amuses me that many of these people then go on to extend the lease (paying over £3k more each year for the 4th and 5th year) or do very low mileage, which negates a major benefit of the Motability scheme (the generous 20k pa mileage allowance).

    #169100 Reply
    Brydo

    Of course it doesn’t help those who stay on motability as it would seem reasonable to suggest that greater numbers means more bargaining power.

    It always amuses me when those confronted with a negative comment about motability give a standard reply “if you don’t like it leave”. The more members who leave the scheme the more expensive the scheme will become as there are still massive overheads to be serviced but with fewer members.

    As Pops says there are options out there but I believe these conditions are temporary and as the price of electric vehicles come down (25% by 2025 according to Stellantis) the number of cars on the scheme will increase and the APs will come down 🤞

    #169132 Reply
    gilders
    Participant

    I was a Motability customer from 2006. 15 years later I was moved from DLA to PIP and didn’t even qualify for lower rate mobility. My lease had to be terminated just over months before my transplant. I was way too weak to fight the decision.

    I had a review this July and have just found out I’m back on high mobility rate, with no assessment required (recent medical reports I’d sent must have helped).

    The reason I mention this, is because I went straight on to Motability’s website and I have to say, I can’t see me re-joining the scheme. I totally understand the few available vehicles at the moment, but the APs are totally unrealistic (at least for any of the cars I would consider).

    #169142 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    I was a Motability customer from 2006. 15 years later I was moved from DLA to PIP and didn’t even qualify for lower rate mobility. My lease had to be terminated just over months before my transplant. I was way too weak to fight the decision. I had a review this July and have just found out I’m back on high mobility rate, with no assessment required (recent medical reports I’d sent must have helped). The reason I mention this, is because I went straight on to Motability’s website and I have to say, I can’t see me re-joining the scheme. I totally understand the few available vehicles at the moment, but the APs are totally unrealistic (at least for any of the cars I would consider).

    Congratulations on getting your PIP reinstated gilders. It’s a shame that Motability Operations don’t take notice of this forum (well, if they do, there’s zero evidence of it) as your post is a telling reminder of the problems with the scheme at present.

    We have recently taken delivery of a car which we are very happy with, but there’s no other car on the scheme at present that appeals to us, so if that is removed and nothing better appears over the next few years I fear that it might be our last Motability car. We are fortunate that we can make that choice, but I feel for those who can’t. As I mentioned earlier, I fear that there’s more going on at present than just the chip shortage and whilst its undoubtedly an issue, I feel that it’s being used as an excuse for the very poor choice at present.

    #169143 Reply
    struth
    Participant

    hoping all this will be a temporary blip, but if not managed well it could be end of motability for many tens of thousands. if more cars come on again and ap’s come down again then things will steady again. if not i can see it either becoming more expensive and more elite or not really surviving as is.

    Current Car: Hyundai Kona Premium EV...2 way 40kg hoist
    Last Car: Toyota C-HR Excel Hybrid...4 way 80kg hoist

    #169167 Reply
    vinalspin
    Participant

    3 months ago I ended my lease early as neither my dealer nor Motability could solve a problem I had with the vehicle I had on lease, not the best time with the state of the used car market atm but I managed to find a high spec MPV with reasonable mileage at 6 years old for 8 grand, Insurance was higher than it was last time I had my own but still only £400 with zero no claims bonus, put a set of all season tyres on it for £400 and got an offer for full RAC cover for £36 a year.

    I will trade it in next year for something a little larger but at least I will have a large amount of capitol with the P/X to put towards the next one. I have never really needed to have a brand new car outside the house and with a new registration plate coming every 6 months it’s only new for a very short period.

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