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anyone fancy the new gte?
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Tharg, in theory if you were on a race track driving flat out, the answer must be yes. But even race cars regenerate battery power on braking. On the road, max power is only used intermittently. (60hp is more than enough for most cars cruising at the legal limit). Whenever the car decelerated or brakes, enough energy goes back to the battery to ensure the electric motor can provide boost power when it’s needed.
At least that’s how it seems to me. I can’t see a situation where a car on UK roads could be driven so hard to affect this, maybe on an Autobahn.
@Tharg I recently received my Volvo xc40 T5 Recharge and can confirm even when the battery is empty that you still have same amount of power as with a full battery.
@Richardw @Wigwam You guys need to respect the forum rules. It was a personal comment posted against the forum rules. Regardless of Hyperbole. Respect the rules please. Turning this in to have a go at the moderator for doing his job wont wash either.
Joss
Current car: BMW X2 sDrive 20i M Sport 5dr Step Auto In metallic Portimão Blue. 04:10:2025
Previous car:Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.Thanks for the science, chaps. Am surprised. Didn’t think that capturing and re-using “wasted” brake energy would deliver enough energy to recharge enough. I stand corrected.
Joss, are you saying I have breached forum rules? You may be a moderator here but that role cannot deny me to point out your own language. You again used hyperbole! No-one “attacked” you. Precision in language is what avoids misunderstanding.
Joss is saying respect the rules. Not that you broke them.
He is simply pointing out if someone breaks the rules don’t jump on him for reprimanding that person.
@joss I am very sorry for crashing your party.No, I’ve got MrsW for that.
is longsuffering one word or two or even hyphenated?
No worries wmc. Wigwam likes to make a storm in a tea cup. Hopefully we can move on.
Joss
Current car: BMW X2 sDrive 20i M Sport 5dr Step Auto In metallic Portimão Blue. 04:10:2025
Previous car:Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.Tharg you should ask anyone that drives a PHEV to answer your question. Very confident that will all say the same. A depleted battery will not alter the performance just the returned MPG.
JamesH Tried asking my neighbour who has a Prius. He didn’t know, he said, because he uses it in battery mode almost completely for short journeys. Will seek out others. Seems that, as you say, performance does suffer from depleted battery.
@Richardw @Wigwam You guys need to respect the forum rules. It was a personal comment posted against the forum rules. Regardless of Hyperbole. Respect the rules please. Turning this in to have a go at the moderator for doing his job wont wash either.
Joss, are you saying I have breached forum rules? You may be a moderator here but that role cannot deny me to point out your own language. You again used hyperbole! No-one “attacked” you. Precision in language is what avoids misunderstanding.
wigwam,
I’m sure you know that forums are required by legislation to have moderators. Mods perform an unpaid duty of forum care so that all posters can post safely and that requires maintaining respect for each other at all times. It means that we are often on the forum at times when we have a number of other things that we would rather do, so the least we expect of posters is that when on the rare occasions we feel the need to remind posters of the need to respect the forum ethos and abide by our clearly stated rules, we can do so without being criticised for doing our jobs, or having to enter a discussion about semantics.
Remember, without moderators there would be no forum.
POPS, I regret you have chosen to revive this discussion. It seemed to me everything had been said.
However, as you have, let me answer you. At no point did I criticise any moderator for doing their job. Indeed I agreed that the post complained of was wrong. What I did was raise Joss’s use of the word “vitriolic” which I felt was and he agreed might be too strong an adjective.
As for a discussion about semantics, why should we not have one? As I said already, precision in language is important and to neglect it is what leads to misunderstanding.
I’m not attempting speak for the original poster, he can do that himself, but if I was accused by a moderator of posting something “vitriolic” merely because I had said a comment was “idiotic”, I think I would be entitled to feel aggrieved. As I am now, by being pursued by you.
Wigwam, you are enjoying an argument over the suitable weight and gravity of a word or two to satisfy your penchant for linguistic perfection. Joss is just doing his job by reminding posters to post respectfully to protect the agreed ethos of the forum.
If you want to continue with your crusade for “precision in language” may I suggest you find a forum where wording is more important than content.
You are not being “pursued” by me, you are just being asked to allow a moderator to do his job without interference.
Thank you.
I’m absolutely not enjoying an argument, POPS. If Joss, as a moderator, moderated his own language when criticising someone else’s, none of what followed would have happened. If you don’t want me here, now’s the time for you to say so .
I must confess that I have never driven a PHEV. I was seriously considering one recently and attempted to arrange test drives in the Volvo XC40 T5 Recharge and the Ford Kuga PHEV, but poor service at both dealerships meant that neither happened. I did, however, research them in some detail, having watched and read no end of reviews. I must confess that I am somewhat confused now, as some of the comments in this thread are at complete odds to what numerous professional motoring journalists have said and some even seem to defy the laws of physics and science! Or maybe it’s my ignorance!
My understanding of how PHEV’s work, which I am fully prepared to be corrected on, is as follows. I will use a hypothetical scenario of a 250bhp PHEV which has an 80bhp electric motor paired with a 170bhp petrol engine;
To work at their best, PHEV’s need to be fully recharged regularly via the plug in charge lead. The general consensus seems to be that the real world ‘all electric’ ranges are about 20% less than the manufacturers quote. The default drive mode is hybrid, where the car decides when to use the petrol engine, when to use the electric engine and when to use both together. It is only in this latter scenario that the full 250bhp of my hypothetical car is utilised.
However, many people get PHEV’s with the idea of running the car in all electric (only) mode on short commutes and school runs. For this to happen, you switch the drive mode into pure / all electric mode (names vary). This means that the car is running on the 80bhp electric motor only, as it has no benefit at all from the 170bhp petrol motor, which is switched off. It is therefore a physical impossibility for the car to have the same power and performance running on 80bhp as it does on 250bhp. You won’t use any petrol, but your performance is blunted as a result and the top speed is restricted (speed varies by manufacturer but is, I believe, around 70mph). If you want to go faster the petrol engine engages.
In addition to the charge gained from plugging in, the regenerative braking systems on PHEV’s also restore some charge to the battery. As an aside, quite a few reviews suggest that braking in such cars is less smooth and progressive than conventional braking systems and takes some getting used to. There is a third way to charge the battery, which is to switch to the mode where the petrol engine will charge it, however this isn’t recommended as it is an extremely inefficient (costly) way to charge the battery.
As I said earlier, I fully accept that my understanding may be flawed, so I would really appreciate those with more knowledge correcting any of the above because, if my understanding is correct, it is not possible for the car to perform exactly the same with a depleted battery as it does when the charged battery and petrol engines are both running in unison. Admittedly, if permanently driving in hybrid mode it is unlikely that the battery will ever fully deplete, but isn’t there a risk of it doing so for those who intend to use the all electric mode a lot and then join a motorway where they won’t get much benefit from regenerative braking?
I’ve read some of the difference of opinions on this thread….
I think it might be easier just to delete a post that MAYBE against forum rules rather than drag out with the he said she said bickering..
If it’s against the forum rules then no explanation should be needed..
As mentioned without Mods here no forum, however without any controversial post, no need of Mods..
Just delete the borderline stuff, if the poster disagrees they can sort it via email.
Agree AJN. I’m to blame, I spotted the initial post and foolishly let it go. Sorry. Every day is a learning day.
Everyday something is learned @wmcform, and it’s great reading the facts and opinions on here of the new available motoring ahead of us, or from people already using EV’s..
On the subject of electric vehicles, I for one have no knowledge on it or experience.
At the moment totally undecided whether it can work successfully in the future..
Watching from the sidelines at the moment with the posts from people with more experience and knowledge ?
?
Glos Guy,
The battery on a PHEV doesn’t get fully depleted, it just looks that way.
When the battery level gets to a point determined by the battery management system, the car switches to hybrid mode. The car then operates like a non plug in hybrid such as a Prius. It goes about its business putting charge in the battery whenever the car decelerates or brakes and taking charge from the battery to aid acceleration. The full combined power of the engine and electric motor is always available.
Glos Guy, The battery on a PHEV doesn’t get fully depleted, it just looks that way. When the battery level gets to a point determined by the battery management system, the car switches to hybrid mode. The car then operates like a non plug in hybrid such as a Prius. It goes about its business putting charge in the battery whenever the car decelerates or brakes and taking charge from the battery to aid acceleration. The full combined power of the engine and electric motor is always available.
Thanks Wigwam. That makes sense. Maybe the motoring journalists are all as ignorant as me on this subject, but I wonder why they say things like “when the battery power runs out you are driving a very heavy car with an average engine” as, from what you are saying this never happens? If I end up cancelling my petrol X1 order (if it gets delayed or more options are deleted) I think I will revisit PHEV’s. Your Volvo must be due very soon now?
Edit – however, I am right in saying that when driven in Electric only mode you are only getting 80bhp (as in my example)?
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