At the mercy of a lithium battery..

This topic contains 21 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Avatar daveblue 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #85859 Reply
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    Wayne McGregor

    Just read that article makes me think l will stick to petrol/diesel for the forsee able future.

    #85860 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    Thanks for posting that thought provoking article Wigwam.

    #85862 Reply
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    Oscarmax
    Participant

    I except the system still needs improvement/investment, however, the some latest EV have vast improvement regarding range.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #85863 Reply
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    Georgie

    Bad enough when you can pop into the Service Station, Costa or whatever and get a coffee and slice of cake to while away the time while the car recharges.  If I were out by myself I’d be stuck in the car for the duration every single time because Service Stations don’t tend to provide armchairs for customers and I can’t sit on a hard surface like the seats in Fast Food businesses.

    I’m not going to get out and stagger around on the off-chance that I might find a seat I can sit in for more than 5 minutes, in a place that provides Table Service because I can’t stand in queues either.

    #85867 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    I think we’re getting a “local range okay” vs “long distance unacceptable” divide in opinion here, which ties in with the original poster’s article.

    #85869 Reply
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    Donkey Oatie

    I think that like most folks I do the majority of my driving in a 50 mile or less radius, so EV is perfect but approx. once a month we need to do a 150 mile trip and 4 or 5 times a year its 300 miles plus. So EV is not a viable solution for me at this time. Hybrid tech seems the way to go either chargable or self charging. I still have doubts though about the overall “greenness” of EV’s or Hybrids given the cost of batteries and the infrastructure needed. For example I was talking to an electrical engineer the other day and he was pointing out that if all cars were electric and all parking spaces at a motorway service station Had charging points there would need to be a massive power supply to each service station so new pylons switch gear and generating capacity has to be factored in.

    #85873 Reply
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    Georgie

    People also seem to think that Electric vehicles run on Pixie Dust.  Britain is already experiencing signs of the Energy Gap forecast well over 10 years ago.  We’re retiring Coal, Gas and Nuclear Power Stations without have sufficient replacement Stations ready to go on line and cover the reduction in available electricity.  Wind and Solar don’t come close to covering additional demand.

    In 2015 there were roughly 58,000 electric vehicles registered in the UK.  By the end of last month there were c.230,000 electric vehicles registered in the UK.  The Government is pushing for 50% – to 70% of all new cars being electric by 2030.  Boris is funding another 1,000 Charging Points for the whole of the UK.

    Well ‘Whoop-di-do’.

    Mining rare metals for the construction of car batteries is going to be a political Hot Potato, plus there’s still no real solution to what we’re going to do with the glut of Lithium batteries expected in the near future.  There are currently over 2 million Electric Vehicles on the roads Globally, but the demand for reusing old batteries is still minuscule by comparison.

    #85879 Reply
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    ChrisK
    Participant

    I will get an EV when they can travel 400 miles on one set of 4 x AA Duracell batteries. 😁

    #85880 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    At this point in time EVs require a bit more planning if going on a long journey, there is no doubt about that. If you are disabled range anxiety, which a lot of people fear, is probably quadrupled foe many reasons but Georgie has pointed out one that would affect her.

    The article highlights some of the good and not so good points of EVs, however the guy who wrote it is not an EV owner so maybe is not very experienced at dealing with the particular routines associated with them. Add to that he is writing a story and maybe has sensationalized his journey just a little.

    I could copy a number of YouTube videos showing long journey in Britain that have went ahead with no problems so i wouldn’t base my opinions on EVs on this article alone.

    The Volkswagen e-Golf, although a very good car by all accounts, does not have the longest range at about 125 miles real world. There are cars with much longer ranges available for similar amounts of money. Take the kia e-Nero it is a similar price and will give you at least 250 miles on this type of journey and around 300 miles on shorter journeys. So on a journey like this from London to Cornwall one stop would be all that you need and i assume anyone would stop at least once on a journey of this length.

    Donkey Oatie the e – Nero would suit you down to the ground range wise, dont know if it would size wise, so i think EVs with a range of 250-300 miles on a single charge would cover almost everyone’s needs, long journeys and short.

    Wayne i hope Wigwams post has not put you off  EVs, if we ever get a one with a decent range on the scheme, as they are great to drive and great for the environment.

    With regard to generating electricity to run EVs don`t worry, electricity from wind, hydro and solar is coming on line at a phenomenal rate. Scotland produced enough wind power in the last six months to power all the homes in Scotland and most of the North of England.

    The National Grid stated that “if 1,000,000 Evs arrived overnight the grid would cope with the additional demand” that was over a year ago and we have added more wind farms and solar plants since then.

    “Mining rare metals for the construction of car batteries is going to be a political Hot Potato” there is no doubt about that, mining of any sort, is not environmentally friendly and neither are oil fields or fracking not to mention nuclear. There are people working on way to re-use the minerals used in batteries but my fear is that batteries in the near future will be come so cheap that it will be cheaper to bin them and that’s a problem. Many batteries will be used in peoples houses as additional storage and will get paid for storing and supplying electricity in periods of high demand, but there will still be many that go top the tip.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #85881 Reply
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    WardyGTC
    Participant

    I agree with you about the article Brydo, he’d probably half written it before he even set foot in an EV. Even a complete EV noob wouldn’t set off on a long journey without charging up first.

    #85882 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    I drove to Cornwall from Bournemouth yesterday. I didn’t make sure the tank was full or take hay for the horse, because I was driving a very efficient petrol engined car and I didn’t stop for fuel or to rest the horse on the way.  After all this is not 1919 or 1819.  What’s the point of electric cars – someone please tell me?  Is it to save the planet? Or to create new industrial wealth?

    #85883 Reply
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    Brydo

    Wigwam or should I call you “Super Wigwam” do you scale small buildings in a single bound lol. Patience is required with any relatively new technology. We have came a massive distance in the last few years and within the next few years affordable EVs with range of over 400 miles will be commonplace.

     

    #85884 Reply
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    philjb

    The point of electric vehicles is that in the not to distant future it’s all you’ll be able to buy.

    Until then we’ll have years of range anxiety if you’re not able bodied for sure. Maybe so even if you are?

    But eventually these will be the norm until another way to fuel our cars is invented.

    It does feel like a backwards step to me too, I like the feeling of the freedom of not needing assistance to fuel my car or change my route via charging points. But that’s what we will all need to get used too.

    Id have though the more remote parts of the country are where people will run out of charge, so more chargers are needed there. But the majority of chargers are in large towns or cities or service stations.

    #85888 Reply
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    Donkey Oatie

    To make using EV cars on long distances you would need a lot of charging capacity. You don’t want to be sitting in a queue for 2 hours to plug your car in. So say a minimum of 300 car parking spaces in a motorway services with rapid chargers @ 50 KW each is 15ooo KW. per hour. Now if average energy consumption of electricity for a UK home is 3760KW per year (Ovo energy figures) that means by my calculations that at a maximum one service station would require same power supply as 35000 houses. Even if you only used 10% of that you would have to install supply equivalent to a medium sized village to each service station. The infrastructure costs would be huge. I am not saying that EV is a bad thing just that we need to go into the total implications of our choices.

    Also if lithium batteries are used for household storage I hope we build safe fireproof containers to house them as at best they are slightly unstable but when part worn they can be unpredictable.

    #85889 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Joking apart wigwam I think in this case its a bit of both. Of course we are trying to make the environment we live in cleaner especially in cities but it has also given manufacturers the opertunity to make £billions.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #85891 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Article

    Electric Vehicles (EVs) and its charging accessibility remain the biggest factor for those who have not made the switch to EVs, according to a study by Venson Automotive Solutions.

    A year after the government’s Road to Zero initiative company car drivers aren’t yet ready to make the switch, with 69% citing the UK’s charging set-up as their biggest concern.

    Despite knowing the benefits of switching to EVs, just over three quarters of those surveyed had ‘range anxiety’ regarding EVs.

    Alison Bell, marketing director at Venson Automotive Solutions said: “With charging and battery range concerns abated, EV fleets should now be far more appealing to businesses.

    “The revised BiK charges which sees zero-emission electric vehicle tax liability for company car drivers fall from 2% to 0% for the tax year 2020-21, will also appeal to company car drivers which should boost demand for EVs in the next 12 months.

    “Whilst our survey findings confirm a greater willingness by company car drivers to adapt to an EV world, there are still some ownership concerns. 41% of people we surveyed expressed concern over the practicalities of being able to charge their vehicle at home.

    “And 30% said they had concerns over service, maintenance and repair costs.”

    Nissan recently reported that there are now more EV charging stations (9199) in the UK than fuel stations (8396).

    Department for Transport (DfT) also reported that the UK has a network of more than 24,000 public charging points across 9,000 locations.

    Another worry was EV battery ranges, with 57% noting that concern. However, 86% of the surveyed motorists said they understood the costs, convenience and efficiency that owning an EV could bring.

    Britain’s first fuel station opened in November 1919 at Aldermaston in Berkshire. However, Nissan’s 2016 prediction of more EV stations outnumbering petrol stations has come a year before its 2020 prediction.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #85892 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Article

    Daimler and BAIC partner on second-life energy storage systems

    Daimler’s Mercedes-Benz Energy and BAIC’s Beijing Electric Vehicle Co. will partner to establish second-life energy storage systems in China. The companies plan to set up the first second-life energy storage unit in Beijing, repurposing retired batteries from BAIC’s BJEV models.

    Gordon Gassmann, CEO of Mercedes-Benz Energy, said, “The extension of regenerative and thus high-fluctuation energy production is rapidly increasing worldwide. The tendency towards increasing distances between the site of energy production and the site of energy consumption also means huge challenges for today’s energy grids. This is creating wide-ranging opportunities for stationary energy storage systems. Second-life battery storage units are a very sensible supplement, as with the further utilization of disused car batteries we are also making sustainable use of valuable raw materials.”

    Ye Xiaohua, Deputy General Manager of BJEV, said, “The rapid electrification of vehicles has transformed vehicles from a traditional means of transport to a new tool of energy management. BJEV is an expert in areas such as charging and battery swap infrastructure and battery second-life usage.”

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #85903 Reply
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    Wayne McGregor

    Hi Brydo, no it hasn’t put me off just taking a sit and wait attitude to see how things pan out. I agree the e Niro is definitely showing how things can progress.

    #86029 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Having just returned from a few days in Cornwall, still without visiting a petrol station,  it occured to me how much more sociable it could be if charging stations were installed in pub and restaurant car parks…

    #86034 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    I agree wigwam, when we go on holiday, whether it be to stay at an hotel, flat, B and B or caravan park there should be charging facilities. We all go for lunch or park up for a bit of shopping or site seeing, also people who have home chargers and are willing to hire them out should do so and all should be encouraged to do so.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #86236 Reply
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    daveblue
    Participant

    Don’t panic is what happens when my 32 mile range mobility scooter battery gauge goes down or in my last scooter a tga vita sport i went to my dentist which is about 8 miles there and back due to hills i was 2 miles from home when warning bleep started low battery.In this hot whether  using the aircon going up hills using the performance what a pain that would be and scary.

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