Forum Replies Created
- Replies
Is it really 3 years old? Blimey, that’s gone quickly. I thought that it had only just come out when we were looking at the Tucson 18 months ago!
It won’t be due to either of those issues, as it’s not a luxury car and it’s too soon for a refresh. I suspect that as they were only offering the base model and the AP was very high there was very little demand for it. Hyundai have a habit of periodically offering very keen prices on certain models, so hopefully it may return at some stage at a more reasonable price, but it’s anybodies guess!
@Glos-Guy Doesn’t following a journey cover mental health, as we as things like, Dementia/other brain conditions, cognitive/learning disability’s, stroke ….. It will be much harder to disconnect access to the scheme, than it was to grant access by making mental health a disability (2010?). Could you imagine the uproar, when (not if) they tried it!
I have no idea @kezo As I said, I was purely speculating based on what Labour, the Conservates, Reform UK and most newspapers have said that they think should happen. I agree that, whether people agree with it or not, it would be a nightmare to unravel. I don’t see them reclassifying mental health issues back to health conditions, rather than disabilities, as that would result in no end of legal challenges. I could see, however, a complete re-writing of the PIP questions, scoring and criteria. That way, you could have two people who both qualify for higher rate PIP, but only the one who has derived the points through a physical disability gets a gateway to Motability. It would basically put things back to where they were 5+ years ago, but by using a new route rather than back peddling on the last changes. As I say, complete and utter speculation on my part, based on zero knowledge 😂
No worries @kezo It’s a natural assumption to make. Like you, I also struggle to understand why people who meet the criteria get a better deal as a private buyer than Motability customers do.
I would also be interested to hear if anyone has tested this with Motability and had any luck. If we weren’t leaving the scheme shortly I would have been able to test this myself at next renewal, as my wife meets the criteria for full VAT exemption.
In truth, the way that this government is going (and most opposition parties are saying the same things) has motivated me to buy privately now, taking advantage of the current system whilst we still can. I can see them in the future capping the maximum value of car that you can get exemption on, for example. Also, I want to buy a car that still sounds like a car before that’s stopped as well although, like you, I agree that the 2030 cut off will inevitably have to move. Even though BMW have a huge range of highly rated EVs, and have stopped diesel engines on everything bar SUVs, my dealer tells me that only 1 in 5 cars that they are currently selling is an EV. I guess that your average BMW driver is probably more likely to want a petrol or diesel engine than those who are happy with cars from the far east, but I thought that was still telling.
Appreciate this has probably been discussed in another thread but want to ask the question With the news/rumours of AP’s having VAT added onto them in July, can we presume that it will effect all AP’s For example, if a car’s AP is currently £4,499 and we assume it doesn’t increase in July then the new AP would be £5,398? Top end cars with a AP of £6,999 would then come in at £8,398.80 which is utterly obscene If that’s genuinely going to be the case then what’s the Government’s/Motability’s end game here? That’s going to price a lot of people out of cars, some of which are needed. Has all the scaremongering and negativity got to them? Has any other MP challenged this? Why are the disabled being targeted here?
I think that your assumptions and calculations are correct.
As for “what’s the end game” we shall see from the Timms review in the Autumn. However, if they go along with what politicians from most parties, many newspapers and the great British public on social media all seem to be calling for, I think there’s a real chance that the scheme may revert to it’s original purpose. This would mean that eligibility would revert to those with physical disabilities only and there would be a disconnect from the current situation where mental health conditions, which were reclassified as disabilities, are treated the same. In order to avoid discrimination claims, they could disconnect the automatic gateway entitlement that currently gives people with higher rate mobility component access to Motability, by changing the questions. Those with mental health issues could still receive a higher rate payment but, due to which particular aspects trigger that payment, they may or may not be eligible for access to Motability. I have absolutely no clue though, and this is all just pure speculation in response to your question 😂
The way I read it – if a partner of a disabled person wants to pop out to meet friends in the pub they can definitely do it. Something which is not allowed under Motability.
@kdwolf This crops up regularly on this forum, and the Motability rules are not as strict as they are often interpreted. They are in fact the same as the HMRC rules. A partner of a disabled person is allowed to use the Motability car for use which is not always for the direct benefit of the disabled person.I know this, because when we retired I called Motability to explain that we now only needed one car, and as there would be frequent occasions when I would go out for the day without my wife (to visit friends etc) I asked if that was permissible, and they assured me that it was. They said that the rules are worded to deter abuse, such as a nephew who lives miles away using the Motability car as their own, whilst visiting their aunt once a month! When a couple live together and only need one car between them, they fully understand and accept that the partner will have cause to use the car independently, for no direct benefit to the disabled person, and this is absolutely fine.
HMRC rules are the same. We are leaving the scheme and buying a car privately VAT free (as my wife qualifies). I asked HMRC exactly the same question and they also confirmed (and gave me this in writing as well) that “as long as the car is available for the use of the disabled person whenever needed”, personal use by me for other purposes is permitted.
@kezo At the risk of being pedantic, and/or going around in circles, I still believe that we are saying different things and that our understanding is different. I’ll try to explain;
The core vehicle lease is VAT exempt for all Motability customers. On this we are agreed. As you know, this is different for private customers who only get VAT relief if the person is a full time wheelchair user and the car has permanent and substantial adaptations.
If the car comes bundled with a pack that Motability has negotiated (as per examples given previously) then it has probably also been VAT exempted, but that doesn’t really matter either way, as we just look at the AP. I think we are agreed on this as well.
Any disability related adaptations are VAT exempted regardless of whether provided by Motability or purchased privately. I think we agree on that too!
Now here comes the point of difference. I think you are saying (and I apologise if I am misunderstanding you) that optional extras ordered by the customer (which was the specific question that the OP asked) are subject to VAT unless the person is exempt due to the reasons given earlier. My understanding (and I’ve never read anything to the contrary, but am happy to be shown a link that suggests otherwise) is that this is not the case.
If the person is a full time wheelchair user and needs a substantial and permanent adaptations, a private buyer can get the VAT off the total price of the car including all optional extras, regardless of what those options are (bigger alloys, sunroof etc). However, the same person (who meets the HMRC criteria) ordering a car through Motability still has to pay the full price of all options, and does not get the VAT knocked off.
Happy to be proved wrong, although it’s more for the OPs benefit than mine, as we are buying privately so will enjoy the full VAT exemption!
@Glos-Guy If an option pack is negotiotiated by Motability and visable on their website i.e Enayak + Maxx Pack, I’d bet money that its included with the negotion of the car (block VAT exemption) and also discounted. Similar occured with the Maxda cx60 with packs listed by Motability.
@kezo I agree that if an option pack is included in the Motability description then the VAT will probably have been exempted at source, but that’s not what the OP is asking. I believe that the question is what happens when you add optional extras on top of the stated car. A few of you are saying that we pay the ex VAT price but I don’t believe that’s the case.For those who feel confident enough doing their own applications, I recommend the ‘Disability Rights Handbook’ produced by Disability Rights UK.
My wife asked me to compile her first PIP application and, using this book, I was able to articulate all the numerous aspects of her condition against each of the criteria that they consider. It took me almost a week (on and off) to ensure that I had covered every aspect and articulated everything in a way that supported her claim (no exaggeration needed and we wouldn’t want to do that anyway – there are enough benefit cheats in this country without us adding to the numbers).
My wife was awarded higher rate for both Daily Living and Mobility, but the award letter said that the next review would be in 3 years time. I asked for a mandatory reconsideration of this, with a supporting letter stating that, unless they knew something that I didn’t, my wife’s condition was not curable and would only get worse (as indeed it has), so the stress and time consuming demand of having to go through it all again in just 3 years time seemed unreasonable and unnecessary. They agreed and it became an indefinite award with a light touch review after 10 years, although I think we might be over 10 years now and haven’t heard anything.
A lot of people blame the system when they don’t get an award that they feel that they are due, but I think it’s more likely down to poor quality applications. You cannot spend too much time on getting these things right and, if you don’t have the confidence or ability to do it to the required standard then seek help. There’s plenty of it out there and much of it is free, especially if you have a willing and able family member or friend.
Our current Motability car was the first that we had where we had a ‘permanent and substantial adaptation’ and we didn’t add any factory options to it, but a couple of you (@MFillingham @kezo) are now saying that, had we done so, we would have been exempt from paying the VAT on them. Not wishing to doubt those of you saying this, but is this 100% fact and does anyone have personal experience of this, as it’s not my understanding?
Whilst it is indeed true that if you qualify for VAT exemption on a private purchase, you also get the VAT off all the factory options as well, I have never seen Motability mention that people in our situation don’t have to pay VAT on the cost of factory optional extras on a Motability car. As I say, does anyone have first hand experience of this? To be clear , we are talking about things like sunroofs, upgraded alloys etc, not disability aids. If we were ordering another Motability car, even though we meet the criteria for VAT exemption on a private purchase, I would expect to have to pay the full price of any factory options on a Motability car.
As always, I’m happy to be proved wrong. Any links to this on the Motability website?
See VAT1615A. The vehicle has to be substantially and permanently adapted alongside being for a person that normally uses a wheelchair. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/605061/VAT1615A.pdf
Yes, that’s what we are using as a private buyer, but Motability get a block VAT exemption on ALL of their cars, so these rules don’t apply to them, hence the question specifically about the options.
I can only assume that their exemption to the above rules only applies to the basic vehicle price and not the optional extras. As far as I know, Motability customers still have to pay the full cost (inc VAT) of all factory options (not disabled adaptations) even if they meet the criteria that exempts private buyers from paying the VAT?
to be fair most on motability do not have permanent and substantial alterations made.a hoist is not a substantial and permanent adaption nor are most hand controls. so unless your having an adaption such as yours glos guy they would not qualify anyway.
That’s true @mitch, although a person hoist, which my wife needs, does qualify, as long as she is a full time wheelchair user (which she is). This enables us to get the VAT off the car and all optional extras.
All disability related adaptations are VAT free, but what I am unclear about is whether Motability buy the whole car (including options) VAT free, in which case they make 20% profit on any factory options we add, or whether their block VAT exemption only applies to the base price. I suspect (and hope) that it’s the latter, so they only profit from any higher residual value as a result of the car having extras.
This is a point of irritation for many. We have to pay the price including VAT of all optional extras, but if you buy a car privately and get the same VAT exemption (as I am currently doing) you don’t pay the VAT. I do wonder if Motability Operations profit from this (they certainly do at resale).
Sent my PIP 10yr light touch review form back about 8 weeks ago Had a text a few days ago Decision has been made and a letter is expected in the next 2 weeks Just posting the possible time scale to help others in the same situation
Useful info. Thanks. It must be at least 10 years since my wife’s last review, although I possibly recall something about it being indefinite. That might have been my interpretation though. I would also be interested to know whether the decision is in the text, or do they leave you hanging?
I have a private car for which I claim the exemption and in past years when I was with Motability I paid the road tax as it was more affordable. Now I have ordered a new EV on Motability, having been away from the scheme for 4 years, my dealer says I can’t do that anymore. I’m not convinced- anyone know through recent experience?
Yes you can do it. Several forum members have done it. Just call Motability.
I think it’s also to do with a cursory visual condition check. However, if it was out of my way or inconvenient to go back, I’d refuse and say that you are happy for Motability to call you to confirm that you had put it in for a service.
Is it by any chance a Hyundai? They are the masters of nanny statery. Ours bings and bongs continually and drives me ruddy mad, especially as I’ve no idea what half of them are for!
Don’t worry. The Insurance tax increase will be covered by removing overseas cover and the vat increase will come into effect after the date it goes live. Price is fixed at point of order. Full stop.
Interesting. If the cost of the overseas cover was the equivalent of adding 12% to the policy, you have to wonder why on earth they included this as standard when I doubt that more than 1% of Motability drivers take their cars overseas! It would have made far more sense to have lowered their premiums and charged extra for the tiny minority that need it – as they have now decided to do!
To be fair to Motability, it’s not that straightforward. Adding 20% to APs is the easy part. We can work that out ourselves by just adding 20% to current APs. Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) is far more complicated though, because it’s a 12% charge on the entire cost of insurance, and that’s not worked out by car but a block policy. Then you have the issue of what do you do with those who currently choose cars with zero AP. How will they pay the IPT?
What we can be certain of is that costs will go up and we will get less in return (poorer choice, lower mileage limits etc), so those of us who feel that the scheme is already looking unattractive know that it’s only going to get worse and we don’t need to wait until July to make our decisions.
This is reply I got ….. Hi Gary, Thanks for getting in touch, Unfortunately, Motability monitor this now and have said categorically we cannot amend the advance payment once submitted. We would be fined if it was to be known.
What the dealer is saying is technically correct, but most will do it on the quiet. Mine did it without me even asking them to! With such a vast AP I’d speak to another Skoda dealer. If not, as has been said, your only other option if the AP comes down is to tell the dealer that you will cancel and re order. You will probably find that their objection will evaporate at that point!
Exactly as @BigDave says. If the dealer won’t play ball, go to another who will. They don’t lose a penny by doing so. £6,500 is a crazy AP and means that you are paying £18,500+ just to lease the car. I’d think that there is more chance that the AP will drop than rise. I can’t see many takers at that price.
Understood, and the 30d is still a damned good car, but given the weight of the X5 I’d rather have the extra power, torque and turbo charger of the 40d (especially if weighing up a diesel against the M60i) and, as previously mentioned, the fact that I’d get back pretty much all of the additional cost at resale makes it a no brainer for me.
Thanks again @kezo I’d previously seen the Sytner review of the 40d, as there are very few reviews of that model. Most YouTube reviews seem to be from the US, where they don’t sell diesel X5’s, but at least I was able to find loads of reviews of the M60i, which is quite common there due to their lower fuel prices and love of V8s, whereas that model is as rare as hens teeth in the U.K. (for the opposite reasons). I like the Sytner reviews (he does a good one on the M60i in Marina Bay Blue as well) but I’m conscious that he works for a BMW dealer so you have to keep that in mind. I’d love that Mora Individual colour on their 40d, but I’m damned if I’m paying over £5k just on paintwork!
The last review you posted was interesting and I hadn’t seen it, possibly because I haven’t been considering the 30d. The 30d engine is more powerful nowadays than the version I had in my 2010 530d 5 Series, but given the vast weight of the X5 I’d want the extra 54bhp and additional turbo charger of the 40d, especially as the fuel economy is the same. On that note, it was fascinating to see the fuel economy at a steady cruise at varying speeds. There’s no getting away from the fact that you can tell it’s a diesel from outside and even inside when idling (although he may have had the door or a window open) but under acceleration, from the few reviews I’ve found, it sounds decent. One of the options that I’d add is acoustic glass (triple glazing) so, in reality, I think I’m worrying unnecessarily. That said, it won’t sound like the V8, but I may find that the Active Sound Design (artificial enhancement to compensate for the mild hybrid neutering) is too much and the diesel could be the compromise. I’m now picking up the M60i tomorrow afternoon and have it until Saturday morning, so plenty of time to decide if it’s the perfect one for me, or too much. Engines aside, the seat comfort will also be a key decider.
Thanks for the video @kezo Unfortunately it’s the pre facelift model, which is a different engine setup. Following the 2023 facelift, the all engine variants are now mated with a mild hybrid setup and different emissions setup, which has changed the noise of the cars. Added to that, the 40d doesn’t have the BMW Sport Exhaust system unless you opt for the Pro pack. The car in the video does. As with diesel BMWs that I’ve had, you can tell it’s a diesel from outside in that video, but inside I suspect that you wouldn’t be able to tell, as @BigDave reports.
The change is even more stark in the V8 version. The pre facelift version (M50i) had a BMW ‘N’ series V8 engine (non-M version) and owners of the X5M (which had an M Division ‘S’ series engine) complained that the M50i had louder exhaust crackles and pops than the full fat X5M! Following the facelift the replacement M60i (which I’m testing this week) now has an M Division S series V8 but mated with a mild hybrid system and is apparently muted compared to the previous M50i. As a result, now the M60i owners aren’t happy!
