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Mutability Operations us a Private company abd, by law, has to bake a profit. it buys the cars, it doesn’t lease them, it buts them tgen leases them to Motability customers. They have to have a large profit to buy these xars in the first place and are subject to what they can sell them for at the end of the lease and if yiu have seen the mess some cone vack in, they have to cover those losses. As a public company, they pay their staff the going rate. It’s still within the pay tgat public companies and trades Unions pay their Cheif Executives and yiu shoukd look at the actual costs of local government senior officers. one thing I do think Motability the Charity shoukd do, is put the contract out to tender as it’s a closed contract
I’m afraid that you are factually incorrect in a number of respects. No private company has to make a profit ‘by law’. If that was the case, many thousands of companies in the U.K. would be operating illegally! Profits are, of course, desirable and required by owners (usually shareholders) but as Motability Operations derives all its income from state funded benefits, which are voluntarily surrender by the disabled people in receipt of them, I maintain that it is morally wrong that their business model results in such a big profit per lease.
Secondly, they don’t need ‘profit’ to buy cars, they need cash flow, which comes from the incoming PIP benefits and AP’s. They also need an operating surplus to aid buying but keep in mind that profit is what’s left after ALL of the things that you describe have been taken into account. They obviously need to cover all their costs, but they don’t need to be building up millions of profit that is over and above all their costs, yet that is what they do.
The next incorrect statement is that they pay the going rate for a public company. Firstly, Motability Operations is not a Public Company. I am also not talking about the CEO. I’m talking about ALL of their staff. Their pay levels, even for the most junior staff, are generous and their benefits package is another level altogether compared to what 90% plus of private sector companies provide nowadays. How many private companies still provide defined benefit pension schemes plus private health insurance plus bonuses etc etc etc? Very few. And, I repeat, that this is all funded by benefits surrendered by disabled people, very few of whom will enjoy such benefits themselves.
Don’t get me wrong. Motability is a great organisation and provides a great service for disabled people who, in most cases, would not be able to fund a new car. However, it is a fact that AP’s would be considerably lower if Motability Operations caught up with the times and reduced their remuneration package to something more ‘normal’. I don’t see why they need a gold plated package for every member of staff and I strongly feel that, given how they are funded, it is immoral that they do so. I do agree with your last comment though, that the Motability contract should not be a monopoly and should be put out to tender. No other company entering the market would be offering all their staff anything like the pay and benefits that Motability Operations have built up over the years and it should therefore follow that AP’s would drop. Any tender process would need to be robust though, ensuring that a key objective was that the customers should get a better deal than they do presently. It wouldn’t be difficult.
Glos Guy i will grab the tape measure once I have it home tomorrow and take a few pictures for you.
Thats incredibly kind of you. Thanks Shaine
RPI vs CPI inflation the gap only gets bigger and bigger 1/4 by 1/4 and the tiny rise the pip allowance will get in 2021 is not keeping up with Ap’s also and there’s not much Mb can do about that at all..
Yes, this is mainly thanks to the decision of then Chancellor, Gideon Osborne, back in the ’emergency budget’ of 2010 to change benefit increases from RPI to CPI. In the very early years there wasn’t much difference between the two (CPI and RPI), but as time has gone on, the difference between the two has widened markedly and will continue to widen year on year given RPI is much closer to ‘real’ inflation. So, when you take Motability’s more or less set formula when working out the advance payments: Vehicle plus other costs over 3 years including real inflation – (minus) allowance received over 3 years including CPI rises + (plus) expected return on sale of vehicle = Advance Payment. The advance payment is the only variable which Motability can use to price in real inflation. Thus, there will always upwards pressure on the advance payments so long as CPI trails behind real inflation, compounded year on year. I sometimes think Motability get a lot of stick when the real villain of the piece was the then Chancellor changing benefit/allowance rises from RPi to CPI over 10 years ago. Its effects are now beginning to bite very hard indeed.
BigDave – You forgot two critical components in your calculation of AP’s and those are the net profit that Motability Operations makes on each and every lease, which is substantial (it was exposed in the review of them a few years ago and discussed at length on here) and the cost to provide their gold plated salaries and benefits packages to their staff, which are completely out of kilter with any other commercial organisation that I know. They still provide a defined benefit pension scheme and several other perks and benefits that the vast and overwhelming majority of organisations were forced to ditch many years ago. I know someone who works for them, is not in a senior position yet has just received a bonus of several thousand pounds. ALL of this is paid for by disabled customers through their surrendered PIP and AP’s. I think it’s morally wrong. They should be a ‘not for profit’ organisation, with pay and benefits that are comparable with charities. That way all AP’s could probably be at least £1k lower.
I would assume they have records from previous services, so if someone gave a very high mileage from the last service that might raise alarm bells. I would, rather nievly, hope that customers would give an accurate reading as required. I got a pretty good price quoted to me last month for our xc60 but decided to stay in the scheme and will pick up our xc40 next week.
Interesting that you had a good price Brydo, as I always ask out of interest at the end of each lease and the prices I have been quoted haven’t been competitive at all. I could always do much better in the market myself, especially considering that the prices quoted by Motability are non-negotiable whereas you can always strike a good deal of advertised prices at a dealer. I’ve always thought it was an odd approach, as they incur auction fees by having the vehicle returned, but my only conclusion is that, given the amount of profit that Motability Operations makes out of every lease, it is in their interest to keep as many people in the scheme as possible.
Well I guess you could lie, if you were so minded, but that’s quite a risk. If your car has been serviced, there will be a record of mileage. Let’s say that you did 7k miles a year, as recorded by the services, but then said the car had done 50k mikes at the end of the lease they might smell a rat! Also, be aware that the prices that Motability ask are very high. You can usually buy a better equipped / newer car of the same model at a main dealer for the same money – and that will come with a warranty!
Glos Guy I would say almost certainly the 78cm length would fit if placed seat to door but the 105cm width side to side might be a big ask for the xc40. My wife’s wheelchair is 77cm in each direction and fits in the boot. I think you should do what we did and try your wheelchair at the dealership. I think you would like the inside of the xc40, I know your not keen on the shape, and the b4 engine is quite nippy.
Thanks Brydo. We certainly won’t make our choice until have tried for ourselves, as we have learned that if it’s a tight fit the auto tailgates can spring back open again! However, we can’t order until the end of Q1 so haven’t gone out to physically look at cars yet. That will be our job in January, assuming that we don’t go back into full lockdown again! Our first port of call in January will be BMW, as the 320i Touring is the only car that I would personally choose, but if that’s not suitable for my wife then we shall definitely check out the XC40. It’s true that I’m not keen on the styling, but I wouldn’t rule it out on that alone. I had a Black Volvo 850 for a while years ago and that looked like a hearse, but it was lovely to drive and the seats were sublime!
Hi folks, all being well we should take delivery of our XC40 on Friday. I will post pics once we have it, is there anything people want to see in particular that may help their own decisions on this car? If I can help I will try
Hi Shaine. How exciting! I do hope that you enjoy your new car. We have the XC40 on our shortlist, but my wife is a full time wheelchair user and we need a decent size boot for the wheelchair, which needs 105cm width and 78cm depth (at around 20cm from the floor). The photos I have seen of the boot make me think that it won’t fit but in reference to your kind offer, if you are able to measure the boot and let me know I would be extremely grateful.
My wife has a BMW X1 Xline and the seats are fantastic as are the ones in my new 320i.
Out of interest, what year is your wife’s X1 Elliot? I believe that they improved the seats for the 2019 model (we last looked at them early 2018)? Pleased to hear that you like the seats in the 320i as that’s top of my list for renewal (if my wife can get in and out of it OK). They look similar to those in the 5 Series which I know are excellent.
It’s a great shame if it’s true that Volvo is cutting corners with the seats in the XC40, as Volvo has always been renowned for having the best designed seats of any motor manufacturer. As a general point though, seat quality can deteriorate within many marques as you drop down the range. The seats in the 2018 BMW X1 were dire and led us to dismiss the car without even driving it, yet I have had a number of 3 and 5 Series cars, as well as a 7 series and never had a problem with the seats. You could also tell in quite a few other areas in the X1 where corners had been cut compared to the higher series models. Whilst the Tiguan we have is dull in many respects, the seats are very comfortable and were put to the test during a 3,500 miles in 3 weeks touring holiday in 2019. As someone who has back and sciatica issues myself, that was a blessed relief!
Didn’t know you could have 4 hour test drives ?
Any decent dealer will give you a good few hours Mike, but these stupidly short test drives are often deliberate. Almost any shiny new car will seem fantastic for the first 15-30 minutes, as it usually has tech that your current car doesn’t have and dealers always bling them up with lots of optional extras yet rarely tell you that. From my experience it’s only when you’ve been in a car for a few hours that the reality starts to kick in and you see the bad points as well as the good ones. As I have said before, when it comes to choosing a new car, buy in haste, repent at leisure!
Audi Q3 – was really excited that this long-awaited car had come on the scheme. Booked an S-line for a 4-hour test drive today. Returned the car to the dealer within 20 minutes!….enough said….Drove over the road to the BMW dealership …ordered a BMW 218i M Sport Gran Coupé, £6.8k worth of extras added…one happy boy…only downside delivery cir April /May.
Blimey. Whilst I’ve added that number of tasty options to a car I bought privately, my record with a Motability car was £2,780 of options and many on here thought I was mad at the time ? Given that BMW’s are very well equipped as standard these days, I should imagine that you have got yourself a smasher there. Enjoy it when it comes.
P.S. What didn’t you like about the Audi? Was it the same things that the couple of others who test drove them recently didn’t like?
Thanks for the great review Farid. Very interesting. I would agree that for a family of four the Q3 would be too small (I fear it would be too small for us and our kids are now adults and have left home, but we need space for a wheelchair). It will be interesting to hear how you find the XC40 as that’s on our list also, but the boot on that looks even smaller than the Q3.
I would have to be honest and say to you that if you are looking for an SUV, you will find them all to be a compromise compared to your E Class, so that problem won’t be unique to the Q3. Until 9 months ago we had been running a private BMW 5 Series and a Motability VW Tiguan side by side. Both were 190PS diesel autos with (on paper) the same power and torque and both £41k on the road (with options). I have to say that the 5 Series felt several classes up from the Tiguan in every single respect, bar ride height (and the ease of getting in and out that comes with it). The BMW was massively quicker, better handling, far quieter, much better quality, bigger and yet delivered 10mpg better fuel economy. Our Tiguan is 4WD so a 2WD one would be better, but not 10mpg better. The other thing that I hadn’t appreciated was how different two manufacturers systems could be, so ticking off the equipment list is only half the story. For example, the Sat Nav on the Tiguan is dire compared to the BMW system and the intelligent adaptive headlights work instantaneously in the BMW but there is an irritating delay on the VW system. Also, I drove the BMW in Eco mode all the time, yet it was s*it off a shovel, never lacking power and never needed putting into sport mode. The VW has massive lag in Eco mode, so I now always drive it in the normal mode and if I need to make a quick overtake have to drop it into sport.
Ride quality in an SUV will never match a quality saloon either, especially if it has sports suspension (which I dislike), but 20” wheels can ruin a ride, as you say. I don’t know why dealers so often add big wheels as it puts many customers off. We came very close to buying a BMW X3 years ago but they gave us an M Sport with sport suspension and ‘upgraded’ alloys and the ride was dire, so much so we crossed it off the list immediately.
I don’t want to put you off the Tiguan, as they seem to be the most sensible choice if you want decent space and good standard equipment, and the build quality is pretty good (if not quite Audi / BMW standard). In fact, much as I’m fed up with them, having had four, and they are not a ‘car persons car’, I can see us getting another at this rate as the other SUV’s on the scheme are gradually falling by the wayside as they are too compromised in one way or another for what we need. I shall be interested to hear your thoughts on the XC40. I bet the seat comfort and ride quality will be excellent, as will the engine I suspect, but I really don’t like the look of it (I know that’s an entirely subjective thing) and the ‘one touchscreen that does everything’ has had bad reviews as being difficult to use on the move.
Well fuel penalty is not so bad if you calculate it out, We only do around 10000 miles per year, the additional cost of petrol is close to the lower AP for the petrol car, This will be the first petrol car for many years so we will see. Yes the X1 1.8 s drive is very economical on long runs averaging around 50 mpg, that however drops dramatically if all your running is shorter trips.( somewhere around 40 mpg) Which most of ours are now. plus the problem of DPF filters and EGR valves which dont like short runs.
We are thinking exactly the same. We have run diesels for years as I prefer their mid range torque and the need to refuel them less often. However, now that we are retired and doing around 10k miles a year, the additional fuel cost of a petrol becomes less of an issue. Also, Motability seem to be wacking quite a premium on diesels in terms of AP’s, compared to the petrol equivalents, which will wipe out the difference and may even make the petrol models cheaper to run. As you say, diesels need a good long run regularly or can become problematic, whereas petrols are more forgiving for short journeys. BMW diesels are superb and just as quiet as most other brands petrol engines. Our 2018 diesel Tiguan is gruff and unrefined in comparison hence why, if we get another one next year, it will probably be a petrol and most likely the 190PS 2.0i one, so hopefully won’t feel too lethargic compared to our current diesel.
My wife’s wheelchair, collapsed, measures 78cm x 105cm, as the handles don’t fold, so ‘average’ measurements can be very misleading. I do wish that car manufacturers would quote the internal dimensions of car boots, as well as how many square litres they are, as the latter in isolation can be quite meaningless.
Thank you for posting such a comprehensive and well written review Donkey Oatie. Interesting comment about the poor seats in the X1, as that was one of the major reasons that we eliminated it in 2018. I believe that they improved them last year but haven’t checked them out yet.
Premuim brands often dont even have any cars available for any test drives, but they still expect you to order a car.
I have to say that’s not been my experience Carl. The 3 BMW dealers within reach of me each seem to have countless cars available (combination of demonstrators, staff cars and service dept courtesy cars) and any car I have wanted to test I have been given for the whole day. Pick up around 9am and drop back by close of play. I always book well in advance though, as if you ask on the day the specific car you want to test will inevitably have been allocated to someone else.
If a dealer told me that I could only drive a car for 15 mins, I would say “Thank you. 15 minutes should be long enough to tell me if the car is a definite ‘no’. If I think it’s a possible, I will obviously need to go to another dealer who allows longer test drives. If I then decide that I want one, I will naturally order it there”. I somehow suspect that the 15 mins offer may immediately increase! I’m afraid that, from my experience, the majority of car salespersons deserve the reputation that they have and good ones are the exception rather than the rule. This also applies to product knowledge. I research cars thoroughly before I even go to the dealers and almost always find that I know more about the specification of cars than those who are paid to sell them!
What a joke. Absolutely impossible to make an informed decision on a car in just 15 mins on the road. An hour is the absolute minimum, and longer if you can’t cover motorways, urban and A roads during that time. Ideally a half or full day, so that you can really try it out. Always managed that before, but the World has changed, although I can’t help but feel that Covid is now being used as an excuse by many companies (not just car dealers) to cut corners. Selecting a car can be one of the worst examples of ‘buy in haste, repent at leisure’.
You said it Gloss Guy “no contest” it certainly appears to be a “no brainer”, however having had a few Tiguan I can fully understand you and the Mrs wanting a change. Assuming a VW is as far down the non marque brands as you would like to go I don’t see many options TBH. As you know we have gone for the xc40 but the boot is small and I know your not keen on the shape. It may be the time to have a look outside the scheme to see what’s available. I don’t think many foresaw the Q3 coming on the scheme in Q4 so maybe Q1 will bring another surprise.
Hi Brydo. That’s an excellent summation of where we are at present. Sounds like you know me as well as my wife ?. The process is making me realise why we keep ending up with Tiguans, even though they do nothing for me! They are spacious and very well equipped and if you select with your ‘head’ they are difficult to beat out of what we can choose from, but I find them dull and therefore I don’t choose them with my heart!
Having been spoiled with lots of very nice cars over the years and having driven literally hundreds of different cars of most marques, I have a pretty good sense of the huge difference in quality and refinement between brands. VW is a notable step down from my favourite, BMW, but a notable step up from the budget brands. Nothing wrong with the latter, but you are spot on that VW is about ‘as far down’ as I would personally go. Audi would be a definite step up from VW but the Q3 may have too many compromises, just as the X1 does, even though I love BMW’s.
We haven’t entirely ruled out leaving the scheme. We have run two cars for years, my wife’s Motability car and my private one. However, we both retired last year and my wife can no longer drive, so we sold my beloved 5 Series (just before the first lockdown – phew)! One car is all we need now and our mileage has also dropped to around 10k a year. Having run Motability cars and private cars alongside, I know from first hand experience that there’s not such a massive difference in overall costs as some would believe, and of course you aren’t restricted to price caps or certain makes and models, but we sometimes don’t use the car for 3 or 4 days at a time now and if we go private we would undoubtedly get something above what Motability permits and again, with my logical head on, it would feel a bit of a waste of money. As you say, Q1 might bring a pleasant surprise although I somehow doubt it. With the current uncertainty over a trade deal / no deal, I anticipate a relatively stable period. I think the most we can expect is a rise in the price caps, which I believe is overdue, but I’m not holding my breath. Q1 in previous years has seen some significant changes but I don’t see that happening this time. Surely we must only be a few days before people start picking up rumours as the new quarter is just 3 weeks away (assuming it will be 1st Jan – wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a slight delay).
We went to Audi Crewe to see it today, really small car and the boot with an auto box absolutely tiny, you’d need to slide the rear seats forward all the way to make it work with wheelchairs etc The price inc options, the lack of lumbar support and keyless entry/start etc really made our mind up and we will be ordering the Ateca next week!!!
Thanks for posting your feedback Chris. Last night we were quite keen on the Q3 but today I have done a detailed spec comparison of the Q3 S-Line (to which we would add the Comfort & Sound Pack, Leather and extended Ambient Light package) versus the face lifted VW Tiguan Elegance (to which we would add Harmen Kardon sound system with space saver spare wheel and driver assistance plus pack).
The Q3 scores over the Tiguan in being a more premium brand, inexpensive leather and far superior Sat Nav. However, the Tiguan scores over the Q3 in far more areas, namely;
Bigger in almost all dimensions – some significantly.
Panoramic Sunroof
Park Assist (Fully automated parking)
Fully adaptive LED headlights (Q3 has regular LED’s)
High Beam assist
Adaptive & Predictive Cruise Control (works with Sat Nav)
Keyless entry, exit and Ignition
Auto Hold
Dynamic Front & Rear indicators (Q3 just rear)
Heated Steering Wheel
Foot operation of power tailgate
Option for lighter interior at no additional cost
Finally, when the 2.0TSi 190PS 4Motion (4 wheel drive) DSG Tiguan comes on the scheme, if it is £2,499 AP as predicted, that model would be the same price (with options) as the 1.5 TFSi 2WD Q3 S-Line Auto (also with options), so as well as being bigger and with a good few thousand pounds worth of extra kit as standard, it would be significantly quicker and have the added benefit of 4 wheel drive. Much as I desperately fancy a change from the Tiguan (having had a few of them), it seems to be a no contest.
The 1.5 Auto is now a mild hydrid and as this is something of an afterthought they have positioned the battery pack in the boot and not under the passenger seat as that space was taken by the ‘JS24 Digital Sound Package control unit’. This means that the boot floor on this model only is not able to ‘drop’ hence the reduction of quoted litres. As most will be choosing the S&C pack for the heated seats, this also adds a subwoofer in the boot where the spare wheel would usually go so this may affect the ability to drop the boot floor in other models too. It’s a case of seeing a car with the ‘pack’ fitted or a Q3 with the mild hybrid batteries fitted but the figures are correct.
Many thanks wmcforum. That’s extremely useful information.
Gloss Guy, I think the 410 litres mentioned might be a motability mistake. Every thing I’ve read states 530 litres for the Q3 and the old model 2018 has a sliding rear seat which increases the boot size too well over 600 litres. I don’t know if the sliding rear seat is standard or fitted to the new model.
Hi Landyman. For once, Motability info is correct! I was looking at the Audi website in detail this morning and under boot capacity of 530 litres there is an asterisk and below it says that this is reduced to 410 litres with the 35TFSi S-Tronic versions. The rear seats do slide as standard. Unfortunately there is no detail (or photos) as to how the 120 litres are lost If it’s hidden space under the boot floor that wouldn’t be an issue, assuming that my wife’s wheelchair would fit in the first instance!
Seen several reviews on the 35 tfsi and the auto box and none of them give it a raving review saying its strained under pressure and the auto box is very hesitant at junctions and around town but i guess the proof is in the pudding and only a test drive will prove that so good luck. Beautiful looking car inside and out but i would want the diesel version as i had it before but unfortunately they dont do the sline in diesel.
That’s interesting as I read a couple of reviews last night and they described the 35TFSi as ‘all the power you would need’ and the only criticism regarding transmission concerned the manual! Having been used to 2.0 diesels I share your concern though. Of more concern to me is that fact that the boot capacity in the 35TFSi S-Tronic auto models is reduced from 530 to 410 litres. That’s a massive reduction and I would need to know where the reduction is and whether or not it means I can fit my wife’s wheelchair in. I would really love a change from the Tiguan and the Audi would be a definite step up in quality, not least with the MMI Sat Nav etc which is a huge step change from the dire system in the Tiguan, but I have a feeling that when the 2.0TSi 190PS 4Motion Tiguan Elegance comes on the scheme it’s going to be hard to make a case for the Q3.
Ordered a black edition today. Ecstatic with the order because I was vindicated in holding out for better options and securing our dream car and it’s going to be our first brand new car ever so me and my partner are incredibly excited. Thanks to all here for their advice and opinions and I look forward to tracking my build alongside others x
Well done. Lovely looking car. There’s nothing like your first brand new car and yours will be a prestige marque as well (mine was a Vauxhall Astra ?). Out of interest, did you drive it and, if so, how did you find the performance? Did the engine feel (or sound) strained at all?
Didn’t realize the black edition was available
It’s just come on the scheme, but only in 1.5 petrol 2WD. £2149 AP for the auto.
