why does advance payment change so much when car prices don't change

This topic contains 53 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  ChrisK 1 month ago.

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  • #117067 Reply

    martino

    Firstly i am great full for my motability car (that i pay for ) before people start saying i am ungrateful i just think we are being ripped off .

    I’m probably showing my ignorance here, why does advance payment change so much from one quarter to another when car prices don’t change in that time.
    <p style=”text-align: center;”>made up example </p>
    So if a car is £25000 in q1 with £500 A/P ,

    Then in q2 the same car costs the same £25000 but yet  the A/P jumps to £2000

    How can Motability justice the increase in A/P is it just to make as much profit as they can at disabled customers expense.

    I really would like Motability to explain the jump in adanced payments

     

    Most of Motability customers need to use them because they need cars adapted(at extra cost ) they need bigger, wider cars ect,  I do not think Motability care about their disabled custom

    Why cant Motabiliy be run as a non profit to help their vulnerable customers

     

    I also wounder if a complains petition was sent to someone the government / or the Queen (is she not the paterent or something )

     

    Do I feel better after getting that of my chest NO!

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 53 total)
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  • #117073 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    Motability is owned by the banks and we know how greedy they are.

    I’ve suggested before that people get in touch with their local MP’s as in my view some sort of inquiry needs to take place.

    Disabled people are having to use funds that would be probably better used elsewhere for their needs just to get a car that suits their needs ie. hoist, automatic etc.

    A good independent audit of Motability is what’s required.

    Is Mike Betts still the CEO?

    #117080 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    I don’t know the answer to this one but comparing buying price to AP does make it look like something is going on. Could be just the manufacturer wanting to shift a particular model or clear the shelves but tracking the AP prices of the very few cars I find suitable for me the VW Touran has been very stable for near on two years now whereas the Seat Tarracco has gone from reasonable to beyond believe.

    I think some of the AP prices show the depreciation of the car after three years and that can vary by fashion or government policies i.e. introduction of extra taxes or charges for diesel cars as an example.

    End of the day it’s we disabled folk who have to pay for misguided government ministers.

    Thats my two pence worth. LoL

    #117081 Reply

    mitch
    Participant

    most of the big hikes have been where petrol/diesel models have been replaced by hybrids.

    toyota hcr for example, i am on wpms and when the hcr came out only 2 or 3 models required an ap.

    but when it changed to hybrid almost all required an ap and quite high ones.

    also it depends on how new the model is and when facelifts etc are due, ap’s will go down prior to a model being revamped and when the facelift arrives they will go up. basic supply and demand, cash buyers tend to hang on if a facelift is due they want the latest version.

     

    #117138 Reply

    rox
    Participant

    It’s many things, The projected final value after 3 years is what determines the Ap. I’m sure there is a body that sets car values on the used market there always gonna be winners and losers due to new models coming out and trends etc.

    Also the allowance we get rises behind the actual rate of inflation and we starting to see that take effect more and more as cars get more and more tech and rise in price and some now have 2 engines or expensive batteries, it’s gonna bite more and more and less and less cars will be on the scheme that are bigger and more expensive. which means higher AP’s as the difference between the two grows. The value of the car at the start and the amount paid off from the full allowance over the 3 years. deducting the 3 year value. The deficit grows year on year..

    Would i say it’s a rip off i dunno…

    But i will say most of us don’t use the full 20k a year that they value the ap on so they making a bit there. my recent car got handed back last week, had done just under 40k in the 3 years and therefore is worth more than if it had just under 60k but is that really the case when it comes to buying it, whoever does they MB have a lot of cars to sell after the lease and you never know as we head toward more zero emissions certain cars value will drop off a cliff sooner rather than later imo as maybe you cannot drive into any town or city in one unless you pay an extortionate amount..

    like in london the congesttion charge is a joke and it been increased to £15 a day but what is intresting is that the resident exemption from 1st of august will not apply to discourage car ownership in london.

    were as in Paris you pay just over 3 euros p+p to get a sticker that last for however long it’s legible for.. So the car is seen as a cash cow in the uk and we part of that and i don’t see it getting any better for us anytime soon..

    #117218 Reply

    BionicRusty (Wayne)
    Participant

    I’m with Martino on this one. What on earth governs the wildly erratic AP changes?
    The only reason that makes any sense to me is that in any given quarter, a particular manufacturer will have a sales target for a particular car therefore a lower AP for Motability.
    What drives the wild increases, I just can’t fathom. Perhaps they have supply issues on parts and don’t want to shift as many.

    With all due respect to the comments above, none really make sense.

    For example, regarding the projected three year value, a three year old 3 Series registered in January is going to be worth the same value as a three year old 3 Series registered in April or July.

    Look at it another way and not exactly apples for apples I know, but if you bought a brand new house from a builder today with a £10k deposit and then found that your neighbour paid no deposit when they signed last month but had the same monthly, you’d be a little upset wouldn’t you?

     

    🏎 I will be remembered for nothing but had great fun doing it 🏎

    #117235 Reply

    Philjb
    Participant

    No not really they obviously got a discount or a signed at a time when market forces where different and the house builder needed to meet targets  it happens all the time.

    same as with cars on the scheme Automatics are a premium because so many people need them.
    If your lucky the market will allow discounts from certain makers but not all.

    Tiguan fan boy

    #117242 Reply

    BigDave
    Participant

    Whilst I can’t account for all the variations in AP – other than it is set with the manufacturers and they maybe wanting to suppress demand whilst they (and their supply chains) slowly get caught up after the lock down. One oft used business way of suppressing demand being to temporarily increase the price. Thus, the Advance Payment goes up. Then when production has caught up – have a sale and reduce the price.

    Plus if there is a new model coming out, Motability will have to look at the relative value of an ‘old’ model v the ‘new model’ three years down the line, with the old model depreciating more rapidly than the new model. Again, this can adversely affect the AP.

    I don’t think Motability Operations are consciously acting to ‘make as much profit as they can at disabled customers expense’ as their profits go to Motability (the charity) for the Charity to use to help people who cannot afford the AP’s or need complex conversions/WAV’s etc. Not forgetting the funding of cars for under 3’s etc. They all cost the charity a lot of money.

    As for lobbying the government, do you honestly think it would do any good? Remember one previous Conservative Sec of State put Motability under the spotlight and her main aim was that ‘The scheme represented good value for the taxpayer’! Not a thought of whether it was good value  for the customers!

    In light of what is coming for the UK economy, do you really want Conservative ministers shining the spotlight on a scheme often perceived by the ‘average person’ to give free cars to the disabled (Yes, I know it doesn’t give free cars but not all the public know that, or even want to know that).

    Overall, we are (very) fortunate that the scheme exists at all (even with its faults). Without it many disabled people would very much the poorer mobility wise.

    The good fact though is that no one is tied to using Motability. You are completely free to spend whatever allowance you receive wherever you want.  If you are not happy with Motability, vote with your feet and go elsewhere if you can finds a better deal.

    #117243 Reply

    Smallcar
    Participant

    BigDave

    Excellent post, I agree with it all.

    #117275 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    I think certain people on this forum totally miss the point. Some people on here have forgotten that not everyone can go elsewhere as I’m sure they would if they could. Also, Motability make massive profits from running the scheme so it is overpriced.

    @smallcar, you have to realise that not everyone wants to drive a car with nil deposit and less than the full weekly PIP contribution. Some of us actually enjoy driving a decent car.

    #117279 Reply

    Smallcar
    Participant

    Elliot

    I’d have thought everybody wants to drive a car with nil deposit and less than weekly PIP, but of course far from everybody can.

    For my circumstances, and also with regard to partner’s disabilities, it is a decent car, but I fully understand that others need something more expensive to suit their individual circumstances.

    #117282 Reply

    mitch
    Participant

    elliot, i get the impression that you expect motability to subsidise a car for you. i apologise if ive got that wrong. the aim of the scheme is to enable people to be mobile and find a car suitable for their disabilities not provide them with a massively discounted premier marque.

    i have yet to find a lease deal that beats motability on the models they provide.

    of course its different if you have a wedge of cash to be able to go out and negotiate a discount there are deals to be had esp if your happy with ex demo’s or pre reg low mileage cars on dealers forecourts. thats not what the scheme is for.

    #117292 Reply

    BigDave
    Participant

    I think certain people on this forum totally miss the point. Some people on here have forgotten that not everyone can go elsewhere as I’m sure they would if they could. Also, Motability make massive profits from running the scheme so it is overpriced.

    Elliot,

    You seem to be overlooking the fact that (and I quote from Motability Operations official website):

    all profits are reinvested to support customers or donated to Motability to support solutions for disabled people.

    https://www.motabilityoperations.co.uk/performance/

    Obviously, the business has to make some ‘profit’ on leasing vehicles and wheelchairs etc in order to pay its overheads, staff costs, insurances etc.  The rest is given in customer support and donations to the charitable arm.

    Surely you cannot be advocating cutting the support or donations to the charitable arm in order to reduce your Advance Payment? Doing so would hit the poorest and most disabled who either need a grant towards the advance payment of a suitable car, or need hugely expensive adaptions/WAV’s, or to fully fund vehicles for under 3yr olds. You would be hurting the people who need the help most!

    In all these negative posts about the scheme, some people seem to be overlooking such as:

    The increased GCB to £600 (or £700/£900 on extended contracts).

    The £50 Insurance Rebate from RSAM

    How much damage Motability are prepared to ‘write off’ on returned vehicles compared to a commercial leasing scheme.

    Free or subsidised adaptions such as hoists etc

    None of these occur in a commercial scheme. Plus, Motability is a complete package – all you really need pay for on top of the lease is fuel.

    Yes, we would all like a nice top of the range car, but just as for many non-disabled people, one has to cut one’s cloth accordingly and not get what is ‘nice’ but what ‘does the job’.

    Do not overlook that in paying one’s allowance to Motability, that allowance only rises by CPI every year, which is the lowest metric the government can get away with. It lags way behind actual inflation and is based on a low amount anyway (either £62.25 or £69.50 per week). It does not keep pace with the cost of the vehicles or anything else in reality.

    Thus, the only way Motability can function as a company with its obligations, is to negotiate with manufacturers and attempt to offer the best possible range of vehicles at the best possible prices.

    If manufacturers for whatever their reason wish to not give Motability a discount or larger discount this quarter, Motability has to reflect that in its pricing. Also the end value at 3yrs old also has to be taken account of – some vehicles drop like a stone depreciation wise.

    Sure, the scheme has its faults, and the pricing cap is one of them. However, any cap increase would lead to more choice but potentially at even higher advance payments as the vehicles would be even more expensive.

    I feel that perhaps a little more could be done to reduce the advance payment of many automatic vehicles on the scheme. However, imagine the outcry if the price of manual vehicles were increased to cross subsidise automatic vehicles. If they knocked £100 off each automatic vehicle that money would have to come from somewhere – probably the amount donated to the charitable arm. There is no easy solution to this one.

    Hopefully, the executive pay scandal of recent years has been ironed out with the new incoming CEO at Motability Operations helm. However, CEO’s/CFO’s of businesses this size do not come cheap. They should be paid an amount commensurate with their responsibilities in order to operate the scheme and safeguard the longer-term future of the scheme. Not the over generous rates and hidden bonuses that became a feature of the previous regime.

    So, yes Motability does have its faults. However, they have to work with what they have and/or what they are given. I am sure they do not increase advance payments just for fun or just to make its customer base struggle financially.

    It is a harsh world out there in business currently and it is set to get harder. We are on the cusp of a huge recession with many people losing their jobs (and potentially their homes). I suppose it will be an ill wind in that it could lead to cheaper AP’s as vehicle manufacturers struggle to sell new cars in a recession. But what will be the cost to the UK as a whole.

    #117296 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    It’s obvious from the profits they make that the scheme is overpriced.

    #117298 Reply

    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    It’s obvious from the profits they make that the scheme is overpriced.

    Elliott, you don’t have to make the same comment on every single post. You have made your sentiments quite clear.

    #117303 Reply

    Philjb
    Participant

    How many times are we going to hear the schemes over priced, yet it’s impossible to find a better like for like deal privately.
    Some  people will never understand the reason why it offers the service it does is because it can afford to.

    If the scheme only offered low or now Ap vehicle there would be a fraction of the choice there is now.

    Tiguan fan boy

    #117306 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    I’ve found many better like for like deals, unfortunately they are not for cars I want.

    @WMC, why not keep bringing up the subject, it’s obvious something is wrong and hopefully if enough people see this something will be done to rectify the situation.

    I can see me leaving the scheme before I’ve even got my car due to the way I’m being treated by them.

    Never had any problems with my private lease.

    #117309 Reply

    Philjb
    Participant

    Any examples of these like for like deals Elliot.
    Did they have peddles. Lol

    Tiguan fan boy

    #117310 Reply

    Moreton5

    I would not complain if they increased the price cap of cars so more were available. I’d happily pay 4k upfront for a 45k car for example. Or another thing would be used approved cars maybe, so again would be a wider range of cars.

    #117316 Reply

    Philjb
    Participant

    I would think for a £45k car you’d be looking closer to £7-£10k AP

    But it would still interest some people I’m sure.

    Tiguan fan boy

    #117320 Reply

    bfoandc

    I’m not wanting to be argumentative but I think that Motability does offer value for money. When I thought I might lose my PIP awards I looked at the cost of leasing and whilst the advertised monthly price looks good it is usually on a low mileage and/or a longer term lease. It certainly won’t cover insurance for two drivers, servicing, breakdown cover and tyres for three years. Also, if you have an ‘ordinary’ lease and find the car doesn’t suit you or your condition worsens or you lose the qualifying award then you can’t change the vehicle early or just hand it back. All the above comes at a cost. As has been pointed out there is also the good condition bonus which isn’t ‘normal’. Whilst I do accept that numbers of vehicles have seen a significant rise in their AP, being able to get an electric vehicle with home wallbox fitted for £399 AP is pretty good as the fuel costs are so low and the AP is less than the good condition bonus.  Finally, don’t forget that they have also offered transition funding for those losing their entitlement in the DLA to PIP transfer.
    Of course it isn’t perfect and could be improved. I do fully understand that people who need larger vehicles and/or major adaptions can find their choice limited and I certainly think that those taking vehicles over 5 years should see a significantly lower AP. I also feel that there should be customer representatives at senior level to put forward suggestions and criticisms at a level where they can influence change.

    #117326 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    Don’t give up the day job Philjb, humour isn’t your forte sarcasm is.

    Just keep saving those pennies to afford your next tiggy (see I can be sarcastic too).

    #117341 Reply

    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Don’t give up the day job Philjb, humour isn’t your forte sarcasm is. Just keep saving those pennies to afford your next tiggy (see I can be sarcastic too).

    Elliot, please don’t rock the boat here, we are a community that likes to see the we and not the me. Try posting a few constructive words, perhaps some advice to fellow posters.

    #117342 Reply

    mitch
    Participant

    your just a wind up merchant elliot every other post is how motability is a rip off the rest about how many deals you can find that are better.

    yet not one like for like deal have you posted, not a single example of a private lease comparable to the scheme for a vehicle on the scheme.

    its very boring.

    #117347 Reply

    Elliot
    Participant

    No mitch I am not a wind up merchant.

    If it hadn’t been for the uncertainty of jobs post covid I wouldn’t even entertain going to them for my next car.

    One things for certain though, I will be putting some extra money away each month to fund my next car privately.

    #117351 Reply

    BigDave
    Participant

    If it hadn’t been for the uncertainty of jobs post covid I wouldn’t even entertain going to them for my next car. One things for certain though, I will be putting some extra money away each month to fund my next car privately.

    Elliot,

    You have spent most of this morning slating Motability and posting that they are a bunch of profit-milking charlatans!

    But, you are going to grace them with your custom because your job maybe at risk in the post Covid-19 world!

    How about that for sheer hypocrisy?

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