Whatever happened to Brexit?

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  • #111208 Reply
    brydo

    We are now into April and its likely there will be no negotiations until this pandemic is over. What are we looking at, could we survive on WTO rules, will we ask for an extension?

    I think the obvious option is to agree an extension possibly to next March to give both sides a chance to come to an agreement. I think the German’s will be very keen to get a deal.

Viewing 25 replies - 76 through 100 (of 160 total)
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  • #130143 Reply
    Brydo

    #130145 Reply
    Georgie

    Woo-Hoo!

    That’s another 1.5% of UK Exports and 1.2% UK Imports sorted.

    #130154 Reply
    Georgie

    Wigwam – “I could equally ask what are ten things that would benefit Britain if we had stayed in the EU.  Neither of us can predict the future.”

    No, but Economists can.  Here are a few things that Brexit has already done for Britain (off the ‘top of my head’, so it’s a bit rough and ready, but we can get the gist):

    Our currency instantly lost 15% after Referendum result.  (Remember “shrinkflation”?)  It has taken four and a half years to claws back to being worth 91% of what it was worth in May 2016.

    Our Economy has shrunk.  Even if we manage to get an ‘Average’ Trade Agreement with the EU our GDP will be down by 5%+ and would take 15 years to recover to pre-Referendum levels.

    Our global reputation is zero.

    Britain is no longer the ‘gateway into the EU’ for the USA – politics and trade.  USA already dealing directly with Germany and France.

    International investment has lost billions

    Financial Services have lost £billions and many have moved HQ to EU – can’t Trade in EU without EU ‘presence’.

    Scotland wouldn’t be arguing for another Independence Referendum

    Ireland wouldn’t be causing problems with both the EU and USA (NI Business leaders asking for yet another extension)

    More red tape due to import/export paperwork – extra 50,000 new jobs needed to cope (not set up)

    We should be getting Covid vaccine from EU – Extra Paperwork = delays?

    Lorry queues and Docks back-logged (expansion not completed, Red Tape systems not set up)

    Permits – only 1/4 of our lorries will be able to travel to and from EU due to lack of Permits = shortages of everything

    Meat exports – farming can’t cope with EU ‘frozen only’ rules for imported meat

    Agriculture – not enough farm workers to lift crops and gather harvests

    Probable Food shortages – even with fully staffed farms we can’t feed ourselves (haven’t been able to do that since c.1750), let alone cover what can’t be imported.  85% of the veg we eat comes from the EU (potatoes from France, tomatoes and onions from the Netherlands, cauliflower and celery from Spain).  In winter Britain relies on EU for fresh fruit and veg.

    Shortage of Health Service staff – we’ve having to give cash bribes to get enough doctors, nurses, cleaning staff to come back from the EU to work here.

    Having to spend millions improving our anti-Terrorism Security Services as no longer accessing EU Security

    Having to create our own Sat-Nav system as we will no longer have access to EU satellites

    Having to spend millions setting up our own Satellite Launching Centre in Cornwall because we can no longer use ESA rockets.

    no longer fast-tracked at customs

    Return to Roaming charges for international calls

    Johnson and Co. have been rude and offensive toward EU leaders.  EU is sick of dealing with us.  They have other issues to deal with (Hungary-Poland problem, Covid 19).  Don’t expect any quarter.  The EU CAN continue with barely a shrug without the UK.  The can cover the losses  far more easily than the UK can.  Unless Bo-Zo can get a tissue-thin Deal or begs for yet another extension on the extension, from January 1st they EU are finished with us.

     

     

    #130155 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    If any of that is true (and much of it is not) and not just opinion , it’s well worth it to be out from under the control of unelected technocrats and saving £60 million a day.

    #130169 Reply
    Georgie

    As Chris Patten said: “A man, naked, hungry and alone in the middle of the Sahara Desert is free in the sense that no one can tell him what to do. He is sovereign, then. But he is also doomed.”

    Still, I can give you the article sources for every point, if you want.

    I just don’t believe you’d read them.

    #130170 Reply
    Georgie

    “it’s well worth it to be out from under the control of unelected technocrats and saving £60 million a day.”

    And our Economy has lost £550 million every week since the Referendum.

    Brexit has cost the UK more money than it has paid into the EU over the last 47 years.

    #130171 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Well, Georgie, as long as you believe it, that’s the main thing.

    #130181 Reply
    Georgie

    And you just keep on clapping your hands together repeating “I do be live in fairies! I do believe in fairies!  And unicorns.  Definitely unicorns.”

    There is a whole internet of stuff out there with hundreds of websites covering all the stuff I said.  If you ever do decide to take a peek under the covers, I suggest you read less at the Beano-on-line or the Daily Express and more from the Telegraph, Financial Times, Politico, or even Gov.UK.

    And who knows – Maybe Boris will pull a blinder and miraculously come up with an Even Better Trade Deal than the one we had when we were still members of the EU.  I wish he would.  Having seen it dragged through the mud I don’t now also want to see my country brought to its knees and its citizens even further impoverished for the next 20 years as we struggle to pay back all the money we’ve had to borrow to cover all the extra costs.

    But I’m not holding my breath . . .

    #130183 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Georgie, I read widely. Please don’t presume what I read. Clearly you are unhappy with the society you find yourself in. Don’t take it out on me, I didn’t create it.

    #130192 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    Sounds like scaremongering from those that cannot bare to see a democratic vote acted upon as they know best.

    Over 4 years since the vote and still the same old boring stuff is being churned out.

    No faith in the uk to flourish steering it’s own rudder. Than one hand representing 28 hands on the rudder and still we have not left fully. Thats the thing about the future, no one knows what will happen exactly. Did anyone see covid coming, nope.. Should we pickup the tab for other less well off counties than the uk.. like roi and others are having to do now.. because the uk has or is leaving in 2021. Even if a deal is agreed.

    Should all car maker have a level playing field, like the eu suggest we should have with them so that we cannot do better than they do. what are they scared of, us being successful outside the eu. yes they are as then what is the point others staying in the eu. So you get this scarmongering of bad stuff will happen if you do this or that..

    The problem with the eu is the polictical union and there’s no point even debating anything with remainers as even now, some do not to want to except the result of the vote and implement it. regardless of my views, i have accepted the result, like with all results in the past. i did not really agree fully with but the people spoke and it is what it is..

    It has to be done or democracy is dead. Ask all the mp’s who lost there seats as they ignored their voters views. I’m looking forward now to importing stuff from outside the eu as well and not being penalized for doing so and having to buy that same stuff from germany as they have a competitive advantage over all other eu countries, under some scheme and they imported it and worksout cheaper to buy it from them than from the actual source..

    #130194 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    My parents and grandparents voted Labour until the unions ruined this Country and were part of the sea change that brought Maggie Thatcher  on board, and the same sort of thing happened at the last election, but substitute the EU for the Unions .

     

    Maggie was not perfect, and neither is BoJo of course, but both have fought for the integrity of the UK (in their own particular way) and maybe both will pay a high  price  – Maggie certainly did.

     

    However, going back to the subject matter ie Brexit , & whereas  I do think that BoJo has made mistakes, but not through laziness or incompetence, and that Mrs May made bigger and more mistakes,  but I really shudder to think how much worse things would have been in the UK if Jezza and MacDonald had been in charge, and even Keef Charmer?

     

    By voting leave, People are abused by remainers, leave politicians are abused by remainers and so it goes on (note, not the other way around) but i still say that voting remain was like Turkeys voting for Christmas , but so be it , good ‘cluck’ to them.

     

    I have tried to keep away from political threads on this Forum, mainly because it is assumed that any disabled  person must be a Labour voter, and ‘life is too short ‘ to be banging my head against a Remainer Wall ‘ , built of misinterpretation bricks,‘  project fear cement , using untruths & hypocrisy tools, and resting on a very dodgy foundation of quicksand!

     

    Good luck.

     

     

     

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

    #130197 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    True mike, i grew up the same and living in labour council run boroughs of london, Once i moved out i found it much better to live in a conservative council run area, but nowadays, it seems there is no difference it’s just more of the same and a notch tighter on your noose everytime whichever party is in power..

    I have come to the conclusion they all in it together and all working for the same paymasters, even if they don’t know it or want to admit it.. it’s all an illusion to make us think otherwise. They not for the people, they against us and one only has to look at society to see the outcome of all the crazy policies we have had over the last 30/40 years. That have brought us to where we are now. When i moved to where i living now in the midlands, it’s again a labour council and had nothing but issues from the get go and all the lies to cover it all up as they really just criminal cartel. who got some letters after their name and think they all powerful and have all the solutions, often they cause the chaos so they can offer the solutions. which is usually the people paying more for less. Over and over till there no more juice to squeeze, then it’s onto the next scam to push. We always pay for the mistakes and imo the eu is just another big juice squeezer and now they want an eu tax and a n eu army etc and a federal state. just as well we left really..or it would of been to late. harder to leave if you adopted the euro that’s for sure.

     

    #130198 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    Hi Rox,

     

    There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, and it is such a shame that apparently otherwise quite reasonable people have soaked up the spin and nonsense of the remain campaign, and are still soaking it up !

    The EU hierarchy still cannot grasp that our territorial waters belong to us, and that 100% of the fishing rights are ours again, to do with as we wish, not “that they have a ‘God given ‘ right to them”.

    Imagine how the French would react if we demanded unfettered access to their vineyards etc etc etc!

    Of course fishing rights can be used by us as a ‘currency’ to buy a free trade deal, and even our fishermen understand that, but only as part payment, as our fishermen ‘frankly’ have been shafted by the CFP for the past 40 plus years, & not only by the EU, but by successive British Governments which have allowed the ‘shafting’ to go on unchecked, and it is now time to give something back to our fishermen!

    The French particularly will not accept that they have no rights to our waters , or anything else belonging to us, and they simply are blind to the fact that ‘with a deal’ they will still have some access to our coastal waters, whereas by their stubbornness they will have ‘no access whatsoever’ in a no deal scenario.

    Surely half ,or more , of a baguette is better than none M. Macron?

    The remain camp have derived great pleasure in quoting how badly Brexit will affect the UK, but a no deal scenario will not just cost the EU access to the fish in our territorial waters, but very many jobs – it is estimated that over 100,000 will be lost in Germany, 50,000 in France, 46,000 in Italy, 30,000 in Spain, 20,000 in Holland etc etc etc ie a disaster in Europe as well as causing some problems in the UK – the other countries cannot easily replace lost trade that they currently have with the UK whilst they remain part of the EU, because of their rules, whereas we can now trade with the rest of the big wide World!

     

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

    #131481 Reply
    Brydo

    We’re down to the wire guys, flip of the coin time:-

    DEAL or NO DEAL

    If been saying deal for a while but just got a feeling and I’m going for NO DEAL.

    #131491 Reply
    Georgie

    “flip of the coin time”  Thinking Boris can even decide which denomination coin to flip is an Act of Faith, Brydo.

    #131502 Reply
    joss
    Moderator

    Lol @Georgie you are so spot on with that comment.

    Regarding Deal or no deal, I lost interest a while ago.

    Joss
    ***🌻🌻🌻 ***
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    #131552 Reply
    Georgie

    What a surprising ‘Announcement’ (not) – Nothing has changed.

    I guess Boris must not have had any change on him when ‘Make Your Mind Up’ time came along, and nobody would lend him a penny.

    We’re still up for either a Bad Deal or No Deal.

    Ho. Hum.

    #131800 Reply
    Georgie

    Looks more and more likely it’ll be No Deal and WTO rules for the foreseeable future, because if they can’t come up with something after 4 1/2 years of planning time  then who knows how long a Halfway decent Deal with take – assuming we ever get one.

    Noticed how Boris failed to Fly the Flag by not using his personal, Union Jack emblazoned ‘plane to fly to Brussels (you know – the one that cost Tax Payers £1 million to refurbish and redecorate).

    Interesting that the latest absolutely definite deadline is now Sunday 13th December – exactly 1 year after Boris won the election and declared that he would “Get Brexit done!”

    #131805 Reply
    Brydo

    I think what appears to be on the table would be unacceptable to any Tory PM tasked with the job of freeing the UK from the EU. I suspect a no deal will be called on Sunday, or before. The EU will then publish their no deal plans allowing the UK to see what they’re up against before the talks begin again in a final, final last minute never to be repeated attempt to get a deal.

    The EU releasing their no deal plans could give a fair bit of info to BJ’s team, some of which they could use to their advantage.

    #131827 Reply
    Georgie

    Interesting news on the UK – EU flights front in the event of No Deal: As I said before, Britain has not made any arrangements for our ‘planes flying to and from the EU.  The current ‘plan’ from the EU is that UK can fly, point to point, to a single destination and back for six months.  In return, the EU get access to UK fishing grounds for 12 months.  This will, at least, let us fly in food and medicine.

    As this concept is wholly in line with the excellent new Trade Deal Britain made with Japan that favours Japan by 87% and the UK by 17%, I shall be interest to see how Boris responds.

    Chaos at the ports is bad enough, with food shortages, medicine shortages, not enough of the necessary chemicals to even keep our drinking water supply clean etc., but seeing hundreds of our’planes grounded as well?

    The EU now has us over a barrel (of fish).

    #131831 Reply
    Georgie

    Sorry – favours japan 83% to UK 17%.  That’s what happens when DH starts watching programme about Zero Restriction car racing up Pikes Peak. Whacky Races had nothing on this. 🙂

    #131837 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Civil flights are governed by ICAO rules and treaties. The EU has no power to restrict them.

    #131852 Reply
    Georgie

    They are perfectly entitled to stop ‘planes landing at their airports.  Here’s a list of Airlines that are currently barred from landing in the EU:

    Iran Aseman Airlines (Iran)
    Iraqi Airways (Iraq)
    Blue Wing Airlines (Suriname)
    Med-View Airlines (Nigeria)
    Mustique Airways (St Vincent and the Grenadines)
    Aviation Company Urga (Ukraine)
    Air Zimbabwe (Zimbabwe)
    Avior Airlines (Venezuela)

    #131853 Reply
    Georgie

    Sorry – I meant to include this link as well:

    https://www.ft.com/content/57c0c01c-ef9c-11e6-930f-061b01e23655

    I know the article is from 2017, but without spending a lot o time I don’t really have at the moment I couldn’t find anything more up-to-date.

    #131862 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    These countries airlines are barred because the aircraft are deemed unsafe. No other reason. The EU has no power in the matter of free travel which is governed by international treaties. Even for Covid, each member state makes its own decisions.

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