'Undertaking on motorways should be allowed to tackle lane hoggers'

This topic contains 23 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  JS 1 day, 8 hours ago.

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  • #97441 Reply

    Brydo

    Iv`e never seen a hearse on the motorway lol.

    Lane hoggers are cluttering the motorways and the only way to prevent them is to allow undertaking, says Mike Rutherford
    We need to talk. And the discussion has to be a proper, adult one on a taboo subject – making undertaking the everyday, legal norm on UK motorways. No, this doesn’t make me an instant supporter of such an idea. But I don’t mind admitting that I feel the time has arrived when we need to consider new laws that permit us to pass slow-moving vehicles – especially stubborn, seemingly immovable, apparently immune-from-prosecution middle-lane hoggers – on the outside and the inside.

    Problem number one is there aren’t enough traffic cops to police the lane hogs. And unfortunately, for financial and other reasons, that’s how it’ll stay.

    • What is a smart motorway? Speed cameras, traffic management and hard shoulder use explained

    Another issue is the way we use our fastest highways simply isn’t working. We’re a small country that has under-invested in transport. This, at a time when we’ve got an increasing population and generally healthy vehicle sales. Result? We endure traffic densities the majority of drivers in mainland Europe and North America don’t suffer, the lucky souls.

    Another major problem is that we’re not using our motorways as effectively as we could, and those hated hoggers are largely responsible. Isn’t it insane that on a free-flowing motorway, a 70mph driver occupying the inside lane and wanting to overtake a 60mph dawdler in the middle lane has to move from lane one, to two, then three, before reversing the procedure and returning to their correct spot in lane one?

     

     

    Better, safer, and quicker would be to simply sound the horn before undertaking the 60mph driver, who shouldn’t be sitting in the middle lane, and who will never learn not to. And I mean never. Only a few days ago I heard of a serial hogger whose argument was that lane one = 50mph, lane two = 60mph, and lane three or four = 70mph. And he’s sticking to it. How come? Unlike today, he took formal driving lessons and passed his test in the seventies, when he was given zero advice on motorway driving. Furthermore, because he’s had none since, he won’t be swayed from his lane two = 60mph argument.

    What to do with an unreasonable so-and-so like this? Certainly sound your horn and flash your lights at him. And maybe, in the future with revised laws, you can undertake him with a clear conscience. Not that it’s always illegal to undertake on motorways today – although legislation on this issue is neither clear-cut nor well known.

    How about a carefully monitored trial on a short stretch of motorway so the Department for Transport, police, public and safety organisations, plus other interested parties, can see if undertaking works safely? Or are we saying that we’re right in insisting that undertaking is illegal, while other countries that decree it lawful are in the wrong?

    With platoons of automated cars predicted to be dashing along in the decades ahead, will these convoys really need to be using the nearside and middle lanes at all during their long-distance schleps? Might such cars and vans, travelling just inches from each other, be better suited to chugging along in the outside lane together at the legal limit?

Viewing 23 replies - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #97443 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    Brydo we on occasions we tow a caravan, on the motorway we have experienced drivers overtaking us then slow down and sit there in the centre lane totally oblivious to the world around them, you end up catching up they do one of two things, they pull straight across in front of you and decide to slow down or they get upset and speed up as you come alongside them.

    The ones I really hate are the one that have a sudden desire to overtake you then sudden pull across in front of you then right down slow down.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #97445 Reply

    Mikey

    My wife is a middle lane hogger.Some of the rows we’ve got into over this have been mind-boggling.Outside Lane is a no no,”they go too fast in that lane”.She’s only been driving for 30 years though lol.

     

    #97446 Reply

    Philjb

    On our Tiguan the intelligent cruise control won’t let you undertake which can be frustrating and embarrassing in some circumstances.

    We do a lot of motorway miles and it’s mind blowing some of the lane hogging I’ve seen and general bad driving I’ve seen, but tooting then and flashing them will lead to even more road rage and bad driving.
    As the item says some drivers won’t move over into lane one until they are leaving the motorway.
    The M25 is a classic example as you find even on the four and five lane stretches lane one is empty and the others are jammed with lane hoggers so the traffic still builds up at peak times.

    #97455 Reply

    gothitjulie
    Participant

    I’m never certain on the definitions of undertaking or overtaking, I’ve always thought these to be manoevres that involve a change of direction or lane. So, overtaking is moving to the outside of another vehicle to move past it, wheras undertaking would be moving to the inside to pass.

    Is carrying on in your lane & passing a slow moving vehicle in another lane an overtake or undertake, or merely passing another vehicle?

    On the M4 this evening I passed a row of 3 cars that were in lane 2 (middle lane) whilst I was in lane 1 (inside lane), I passed them because the car at the front (lane hog) braked without reason & I decided not to brake, just carry on at my same speed as my lane was clear for a long way ahead, ending up passing those 3 cars. Did I just undertake illegally?

     

    #97458 Reply

    vinalspin
    Participant

    We have a lot of 4 lane motorway where I live and I just stick to the inside lane and pass all the idiots bunching up in the outer 3, I still indicate and pull out to pass if I have to but seeing as they’re all morons by the time they realise I’ve gone.

    #97471 Reply

    BionicRusty (Wayne)
    Participant

    One of my absolute bane’s this one, along with not indicating.
    Undertaking, as far as I am aware, is not illegal but can be considered careless driving in some circumstances. If I am on a motorway driving at 70mph or less on the inside lane and come across a lane hogger in the outside or middle lane, I would continue at the same speed and in the same lane.

    Highway Code 268

    “Rule 268
    Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.”

    I would argue in any court if I was in the left hand lane and pass a lane hogger that the above applies.
    😁😁😊

    ? I will be remembered for nothing but had great fun doing it?

    #97476 Reply

    SaintsMan

    I have passed on the left quite a few times on the A1, especially when there’s s huge line of traffic sitting on the outside lane and nothing on the inside lane.

    In the above quote by Wayne it says “Do not overtake…..” It does not say drivers MUST NOT overtake…. There is a difference in law about the two phrases.
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Also, what is an overtake? To me it is approaching a car in my lane, moving to the right hand lane, passing the car and moving back into the previous lane. If you pass on the left but don’t change lanes is that an overtake or just a pass?</p>
     

    #97481 Reply

    Dragonfly

    My sister in law gets into the middle lane for a 250 mile drive up the M1 and sits there for the whole journey at 70 MPH. When I asked her about why she does this she says she doesn’t like driving in the left lane because of the big Trucks and people in the right hand lane drive too fast. She also says “I am driving at 70 mph, which is the speed limit, so why would anyone need to overtake me” !!!!!!

    I think the above logic applies to many people.

    #97483 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    One of my absolute bane’s this one, along with not indicating. Undertaking, as far as I am aware, is not illegal but can be considered careless driving in some circumstances. If I am on a motorway driving at 70mph or less on the inside lane and come across a lane hogger in the outside or middle lane, I would continue at the same speed and in the same lane. Highway Code 268 “Rule 268 Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.” I would argue in any court if I was in the left hand lane and pass a lane hogger that the above applies. 😁😁😊

    I was going to ask a question regarding the above, but you have answered it


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #97485 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    My sister in law gets into the middle lane for a 250 mile drive up the M1 and sits there for the whole journey at 70 MPH. When I asked her about why she does this she says she doesn’t like driving in the left lane because of the big Trucks and people in the right hand lane drive too fast. She also says “I am driving at 70 mph, which is the speed limit, so why would anyone need to overtake me” !!!!!! I think the above logic applies to many people.

    My wife will not drive on a motorway full stop, in fact she is terrified travelling on motorways as a passenger, we travel at very quite times, the thing which frightens her the most are the bad drivers and the foreign trucks.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #97553 Reply

    KerryB
    Participant

    I find this thread fascinating. I trained as an advanced driver, but never took the test (this does NOT make me any better than the average driver, or give me the right to act superior!), and I consider myself a pretty careful and law-abiding motorist.

    I never undertake except in slow-moving traffic jams, and I never middle-lane hog. I do move back into the driving lane (lane 1/inside lane) whenever it is clear ahead, i.e. no obvious slow-moving traffic for a significant distance in front of me. If I need to overtake  a middle lane hogger, I admit to moving (when safe) from driving lane, into middle lane, then to overtaking lane, then the same in reverse once safely past them. I live in the hope (so far unfounded) that they will take the hint, and move into the empty driving lane.

    I have always been under the impression that undertaking was illegal, except as said above, in slow-moving traffic, but BionicRusty’s comment made me go and look it up. I found this useful guide by the RAC, which is very helpful:

    https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/

     

    #97579 Reply

    SaintsMan

    @oscarmax

    I thought most if not all trucks were foreign, Volvo, Daf, Renault etc.

    #97591 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    @oscarmax I thought most if not all trucks were foreign, Volvo, Daf, Renault etc.

    No I meant the drivers from aboard they seem to have a death wish


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #97610 Reply

    SaintsMan

     

    @oscarmax

     

    I know what you meant, sounds very xenophobic to me.

    #98386 Reply

    Olpk

    Firstly “undertaking” and “passing” are the same things.

    To overtake or undertake a lane change isnt always required but your still completing the manoeuvre.

    Sitting in the middle lane and calmly continuing past a middle lane hogger is still undertaking.

    Rule 268 only gives exemption if the speed of other traffic in other lanes is seriously affected by congestion. Meaning large vehicle numbers. This rules merely covers queuing traffic to allow you to stay in lane and move with it regardless of any others.

    If they are only slightly slowed by normal traffic movement then your not exempt.

    If the road only has medium to light traffic your expected to move across the lanes as you should.

    “Do not” is a definite instruction in applying traffic rules. There is no ambiguity.

    Regardless of what speed your travelling in the middle lane (70) your legally required to move over so pointless argument.

    It’s easy not to get caught by police as there simply isnt enough. But your forgetting the insurance side of things. Have an accident and it comes out your sneaking up the inside then boom you lose before the case get started.

    20 years as a cop. I’m speaking from knowledge and experience.

    I’d be more worried about how your insurance company will view it should things go wrong. Especially if your car is packaged with your insurance like with motability. If RSA think your too high a risk a refuse cover where does that leave you.

    #98397 Reply

    Brydo
    Participant

    Excellent post Olpk.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #98478 Reply

    vinalspin
    Participant

    So what about the idiots that sit in the outside lane at 55-60mph for the entire duration they are on the motorway and refuse to move over no matter how much traffic is built up behind them?

    #98486 Reply

    SaintsMan

    @olpk

    Certain rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements, and are identified by the words ‘must’ or ‘must not’. In these cases, the rules also include references to the corresponding legislation. Offenders may be cautioned, given licence penalty points, fined, banned from driving, or imprisoned, depending on the severity of the offence. Although failure to comply with the other rules would not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, the Highway Code may be used in court under the Road Traffic Act to establish liability. These include advisory rules with wording ‘should’ and ‘should not’ or ‘do’ and ‘do not’. In general, only the latest official printed version of the Highway Code should be used but in legal proceedings, whether civil or criminal, the version current at the time of the incident would apply.

    #98489 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    @oscarmax I know what you meant, sounds very xenophobic to me.

    No she is a very nervous passenger, before you reply with your xenophobic remarks I am foreign and so is some of our friends


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #98506 Reply

    JS
    Moderator

    No one is Foreign on here! We are all here for a common reason and for various reasons, it’s only uniting and helping others that sets us apart from other forums, discrimination of any kind is not exceptable on the forum. (It’s sometimes the interpretation that gets read wrong)

    No Xenophobic’s to see here, please move along and get back to the Thread.

    Topic- for my pennies worth at any opportunity I always get back in the slow lane, I was told a few years ago by a police traffic officer ” we ignore the inside  lane, it’s the blatant speeders and the tailgating that gets our notice”. After a bit of conversation he concluded with “it’s seems to be an Ego thing everyone thinks of it as a slow lane and surprising how many people think it’s only for lorries, coaches, caravans, trailers etc”

    personally im not going to move over to the outside lane for sticking to the lane I’m in at a constant speed because of someone not abiding to the rules of the road. With less activated speed cameras now I would of thought one of the biggest legalised Gang in the country would use lane hogging as a Cash Cow and stamp it out.

     

     

    #98568 Reply

    Oscarmax
    Participant

    No one is Foreign on here! We are all here for a common reason and for various reasons, it’s only uniting and helping others that sets us apart from other forums, discrimination of any kind is not exceptable on the forum. (It’s sometimes the interpretation that gets read wrong) No Xenophobic’s to see here, please move along and get back to the Thread. Topic- for my pennies worth at any opportunity I always get back in the slow lane, I was told a few years ago by a police traffic officer ” we ignore the inside lane, it’s the blatant speeders and the tailgating that gets our notice”. After a bit of conversation he concluded with “it’s seems to be an Ego thing everyone thinks of it as a slow lane and surprising how many people think it’s only for lorries, coaches, caravans, trailers etc” personally im not going to move over to the outside lane for sticking to the lane I’m in at a constant speed because of someone not abiding to the rules of the road. With less activated speed cameras now I would of thought one of the biggest legalised Gang in the country would use lane hogging as a Cash Cow and stamp it out.

    J S I apologise for my behaviour, I most likely misread the post and misunderstood, I am a bit touchy at the  moment my little dog died on Tuesday, but I cannot use that as an excuse. I will make this the last post on the forum.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #98645 Reply

    BionicRusty (Wayne)
    Participant

    Oscarmax, First of all, I’m so sorry for your loss. We too are animal lovers and I know the pain when one passes.

    Misunderstandings are misunderstandings. I may be wrong but I think when JS says “move along”, he means let’s get back to the thread. I do not think it’s a request to leave the forum. We’re all here to support, provide advice and generally talk all things Motability and automotive (apart from the Off Topic thread that is! 😃).

    I for one hope that you will stay and continue to contribute.

    Oh, and re you post above regarding caravan towing, I can certainly relate to that. We’ve been on the receiving end of that type of driving. When I was more able and our children were young, we had a folding camper and spent many happy hours being cut-up on motorways.
    Best wishes.

    ? I will be remembered for nothing but had great fun doing it?

    #98653 Reply

    JS
    Moderator

    @oscarmax

    my comments were a general comment and not aimed directly at yourself or any individual. As bionic rusty correctly states the comment “move along” is a play on the words and common phrase “move along please nothing to see here”   Often used to disperse crowds or onlookers to prevent a situation escalating.

    i apologise for any confusion or distress this may of caused you at such a difficult time, I appreciate and enjoy your input to the Forum and look forward to your continued support.

    JS

     

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