Under 25's being squeezed out

This topic contains 86 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Samuel 1 week ago.

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  • #55240 Reply
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    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    The criteria for under 25’s is the vehicle (excluding some vans) must be insurance group 16 of less and brake horse power of 120 or less.

    It’s been brought to our attention that new cars are having their insurance group raised, with the increase in safety equipment, autonomous braking etc and security we are at a little loss as to how these are calculated, we understand that Thatcham https://www.thatcham.org/ grade the cars from 1-50 but how can an old A Class Merc 180d SE be group 13 and the new car insurance group 20 and the old Ford Focus 1.5 diesel be two points lower than the new one?

    In fairness to Motability the new Focus 1.5 diesel Zetec is 17 with Thatcham but they have reduced it to 16 so under 25’s can get it which is obviously a good thing.

     

     

Viewing 25 replies - 26 through 50 (of 86 total)
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  • #77130 Reply
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    mzmps
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    Maybe the rules for under 25’s are a little prescriptive. There are problems when someone say 16 gets their first car, but then by the time they get to 24+, they could have been driving 8 years or more, yet are still very restricted in what car they can potentially get.

    Yet someone who is 25, with no driving experience, has no restriction on what they can get.

    Maybe, if they stay on Motability with no claims or points, say for the first 3 years, length of the first lease usually (excluding WAVs). Then loosen the limitations, even allow them access to all cars available.

    #77150 Reply
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    Georgie

    It is a bit daft.  I passed my Driving Test aged 44 because health collapse meant I needed a car and my first car had 165bhp.  I had no more driving experience than a newly qualified 18 year old.

    Evidence supports the theory that I’m certainly less likely than an 18 year old lad to fill my car with my mates and then hoon around showing off my obviously brilliant new driving skills until I ram my car into a wall at 80mph and kill everyone in it.  (We middle aged women prefer reversing into bollards, swerving into oncoming traffic while we apply mascara at 60 mph, and driving into swimming pools in first gear after hitting the accelerator instead of the brake.)

    But limiting access to 121bhp+ / <= Insurance Group 16 until your 25 goes too far the other way.  I think 21 would be far more reasonable.

    Just my two cents worth.

     

    #77212 Reply
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    Bobby

    Raising the insurance group to at least 20 is not an unreasonable ask as many new car’s insurance group are increasing after every new iteration despite being packed with a lot of safety kit. Around group 20 provides a good variety whilst not being too risky or expensive.

    It may also be down to the criteria they use to judge the group of a car. They could be using an outdated system thats overestimating the risk.

    Some customers need under 25s to drive for them but can’t access the car that suits them due to bhp and group restrictions

    #77226 Reply
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    vinalspin
    Participant

    Pretty soon there will be no cars on the scheme for under 25’s, why don’t they just say they don’t want them on the scheme as being disabled and under 25 means you’re not as financially attractive to profit margins so don’t deserve help.

    Or they could just look at the way cars are grouped on the insurance scale these days and adjust accordingly, although doing that at the pace they make most positive changes to the scheme would mean a revamp in 2030.

    #77236 Reply
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    Philjb

    They’ve probably done that and. These are the car they will insure.

    Mostly the 1.0 engines which are actually quite nippy.

    Again it depends what your disability is, if it’s major then add someone over 25 as the main driver and order what you need.

    Or stick to the cars the scheme allows.

    Though the list is getting smaller. But it has been for everyone.

    #77616 Reply
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    Stephen

    I completely agree with Gilders view on this subject. The suggestion of an additional high risk insurance premium is one perfect way to pave open a few more cars for under 25’s as the list has massively been reduced over the years! I know many disabled parents who rely on their younger ones to drive for them and the larger or newer the car they need, the higher the insurance group and BHP – so that is a loss/loss situation. I think this needs to be looked into as soon as possible by Motability. Maybe a petition or something to open their eyes? 

    #77895 Reply
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    Mark

    This is absolutely shameful. The new Audi A1 is also now not available for under 25’s!! What are Motability playing at here? Increase the insurance groups!!

    #77919 Reply
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    ace

    Its ridiculous Mercedes B class has 114bhp but unavailable to under 25s because the insurance is group 19 , with technology on the rise in cars, there wont be no cars on group 16 soon , No more A class , No more Audi A1 , motability are not serious! it’s a joke !

    #77969 Reply
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    Philjb

    It doesn’t apply to me as my youngest is older then 25.

    But in reverse without the scheme they would never get covered on such a large hi spec car.

    but  younger drivers pay a bigger excess anyway? On the scheme. So should have a bigger list of cars available.

    my youngest today had been using her own car for the long weekend with friends a 4 year old 1.6 Mini Cooper S and she commented  how much nicer and easier our motability car is to drive.

    Not just for the speed but all the new helpful tech.

    Like self park,  the loundness of the  stereo and ease of phone / music connection.

    She’d never get an affordable quote on ours away from the scheme

    #78031 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    Interesting debate and I agree with the  posters who’ve said sense of realism / perspective is needed.  Whilst the average 19 year (for example) would love to be running around in a Merc or Audi or some other “prestige” brand surely its more important to have reliable and affordable transport(?) and in that respect the scheme delivers.

    Outside of the scheme under 25’s are hugely restricted in what they can drive anyway, mostly due to insurance but also insufficient income / savings to buy something outright or lack of credit history to go down the finance / lease route – Motability takes none of this into account, giving any under 25’s a very real advantage over no doubt a lot of their peers.

    At the end of day so it may be a “lesser” brand but while there are options for most types of cars available to under 25’s then complaining they cant have something sporty or with an “aspirational” badge is rather missing the point, a Vauxhall or Hyundai will do exactly the same job as a Jaguar or BMW and will be far better than the typical shed a lot of under 25’s drive….

    Motability may have it critics but we’re awaiting delivery of our fifth car and in our experience can’t fault it, without a car the Mrs would be pretty much housebound.  The scheme allows us to have a new car with insurance etc.for less than it would on the open market and completely avoids the possible dramas and unreliability of running an older car.

     

    #78033 Reply
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    dalecousins
    Participant

    What you have to consider T.J is that some members over 25 that are not able to drive may rely on a driver that is a family member that is under 25 that might be a son or daughter or a care worker under 25 is limited if required to drive a members car.

    Dale.

    #78035 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    Fair point Dale, the Mrs can’t drive any more and when we got our first car on the scheme I’d not longed turned 25 so for the sake of a couple of months we would have fitted the situation you’ve described – still maintain though that the range / choice of cars is less important than actually having access to one on the scheme.

    Those that just fall short of being 25 may face the dilemma of picking from a limited selection or waiting a bit for a bigger choice, given its a three year lease that might be tough call but only the people involved can decide that.

    Suppose the biggest trade off is those over 25 that will drive the car but at times rely on a someone under 25  – do they possibly compromise and get something both can drive or not and accept that some days the car will not be “available” to them?

    #78036 Reply
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    dalecousins
    Participant

    Other side is that you have to set limits so that insurance costs don’t force the AP to rise to accommodate high premiums as no other way to bring more money in.

    We are new to motabiliy and my opinion is it’s amazing, we have a £37k car on order that is only costing £240 per month that’s cheaper than i paid for my 2008 polo that i have from new which cost me £256 per month over 5 years plus insurance and maintenance costs.

    our paperwork for the Sharan SE NAV Auto has a simulated cost which has a deposit of £3700 and then £640 per month and we get it for £240. that’s just mad if you think about it.

     

    #78037 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    Dale, that’s my thinking also – the scheme can more often than not offer unbeatable value for money compared to private buying or leasing, if just adding up the numbers alone some of the really small city cars may be the exception but with Motability its all covered under one agreement and sometimes that convenience is worth paying for.

    Going back to the under 25’s, they are on paper the highest risk so its not unreasonable for Motability to want to limit their exposure.  Thinking about it the first car we got was also available to under 25s, it had 115hp but compared to what other people my age (just 25) were driving it was night and day – they had 15+ year old bangers with running costs in terms of insurance and maintenance about the same if not more than the higher rate mobility component whereas the fact I was driving a brand new, top spec for the model car, having a Vauxhall and not BMW on the badge made no difference to me, my peers or most importantly the Mrs.

    I think because of how simple / easy to access the scheme is, its very easy to forget the huge difference between it and the typical way people run cars and perhaps have optimistic expectations of the range of cars and the related AP.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar T.J.
    #78039 Reply
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    dalecousins
    Participant

    Exactly T.J i’m 43 now and currently drive 2 cars a polo bluemotion and a 4.4 V8 BMW X5 sport and my insurance is under £300 for both but when i was under 25 i had a spell living in southern Ireland and had to pay £3.5K each year so having the option of a new car and insurance paid for would have been a dream.

    Fast forward to now and a friend of mine his son is seventeen just passed his test and has a nissan micra and his insurance insist he has a black box that doesn’t let him drive past 10pm without having to pay a extra each time he does.

    #78054 Reply
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    Philjb

    I also think that’s why the scheme allows drivers non family (over 25) to also drive as long as they live within 5 miles?

    But non of us know what will happen after Brexit if it goes ahead regarding the scheme list, are we going to all be forced to cut back on what we can have? If that scheming Esther McVey gets in it could spell the start of the end of the scheme for all of us.

    #78574 Reply
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    Simpsons

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>BMW i3 not suitable for under 25 even though its safer and better for the environment :/ Yet another example.</p>

    #78640 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    Simpsons, without meaning to sound argumentative I’m not surprised the i3 is 25+ only…   Insurance groups are based on a lots of factors

    “Vehicles are allocated to insurance groups based on engine size, performance, cost of repairs and attractiveness to thieves.”

    Its a rapidly accelerating car, any repairs due to the type of car and brand will be expensive and no doubt there are more than a few car thieves out there that would to take one for a spin.

    The safety kit may be brilliant but its not going to stop a young inexperienced / over enthusiastic drivers from showing off with silly overtakes etc and getting it wrong or the inevitable minor dings that new drivers inevitably end up with.

    To be fair not sure what the environment has to do with insurance groups anyway?

    #79287 Reply
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    Adam

    Well, there’s a clear difference between the people of this thread. The elder’s are supporting Motability’s decision as they can drive whatever car they want. But for those of us who can’t drive and rely on our children to get us around, we have to settle for a lower spec cars whilst y’all enjoy your German bigboys. Fair play

    #79291 Reply
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    Dale

    I’ve just looked and currently 817 for under 25 and plenty of German bigboys in that list.

    Not sure what point you are trying to make Adam but as far as i can see it your still getting access to the same class of cars just in the smaller engine version.

    Dale.

    #79300 Reply
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    Muhammed

    Hi,

    I think Adam is right in a sense. As cars get safer they are not available for under 25’s. Like the B class was suitable and now it says insurance group 19 on the Motability site. I check the Thacham site and the same car is insurance group 16 making it suitable for under 25’s. I called Motability and they too are very confused as to why it says 19 on their site. It could may very well be a mistake.

    #79302 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    There is also the point to consider than whilst cars may be getting safer your average young driver is probably much the same as they always have been, drive sensibly whilst your in the car and like a mad thing whilst fetching your shopping when your ill indoors…

    Suppose they could introduce a young driver blackbox type system for cars from say group 16 to 25 so that a wider range is available with the blackbox acting as deterrent against being daft but really cant see that going down well.

    Sometimes I think Motability are a bit damned if they do and damned if they don’t at times – the number of cars, drivers etc on the scheme mean that some compromises are inevitable.

    As I’ve said before as long as all types (mpv, estate, wav etc.) of cars are available to under 25’s then the scheme is working pretty much as intended, this might sound a bit blunt but no-one is forced to join – if your under 25 and not happy about driving a Kia instead of an Audi or having young Johnny driving you about in one then go down the private route but good luck getting anywhere near the “value for money” the scheme offers.

    #79307 Reply
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    mzmps
    Participant

    Not saying Adam is right, in that all of us over 25, in my case way over 25, are ok jack and stuff the rest. Personally, as I pointed out in an earlier post, it is crazy that someone over 25, even in their 40’s or 50’s say can pass their test and no restrictions (in choice) while someone who is 16 and passes their test, even say 16  and a few days, gets a car so by the time they are nineteen+, have 3 years initial lease without any accidents or points, but still restricted. Why not a sliding scale at least, as it would for someone outside Motability, build up no claims, for example.

    As Adam also says, it is not all about under 25’s wanting a flash fast car to hoon about in. They as I would like to point out, those under 25, act as not only drivers, but in a lot of cases carers, for those the car would be intended for. So it not about the under 25′ wants, it is about another persons needs, having looked at a few cars, what suits one doesn’t suit another, what looks good on paper, in reality doesn’t quite fit, e.g. door or boot opening, even down to the fabric used, some grab you, good when driving bad when trying to get out of the vehicle.

    #79319 Reply
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    T.J
    Participant

    Mzmps, get what your saying about someone over 25 with zero driving years not being restricted like younger drivers but I think a large part of it comes down to having a more mature attitude / outlook on things as you get older and being less inclined to hoon about regardless of what the car is.  Guess this is backed up by young drivers being a much higher risk despite typically driving smaller, lower powered cars.

    A sliding scale would make sense for younger drivers but in practical terms would probably be a nightmare to administer , for example driver has almost 3 years “no claims”, orders a new higher group car on the basis of this but then has an accident weeks before delivery – what then?  In the private sector it would be more than likely be higher insurance costs come the yearly renewal but the scheme doesn’t work that way.

    The under 25’s also being carers is a fair point and ultimately the car has to work for the leaser but Adam said “we have to settle for a lower spec cars whilst y’all enjoy your German bigboys” which seems to suggest he is more worried about the badge than the actual car?  Or put another way we currently have an Vauxhall Astra ST Elite Nav which has pretty much every feature going which in all fairness is a higher spec than some of the German equivalents and has a range of engines that covers both the under and over 25 insurance groups – so you can have spec and under 25 insurance groups but maybe not with a “premium” badge.

    #79404 Reply
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    Adam

    Mzmps, it seems that you got the gist of what I was trying to say and where it is indeed the Leasors needs rather than the Under 25’s wants.

    T.J., in this day and age, the majority of people would pick the German badges even if the lesser premium brands have more features in them because at the end of the day, it’s a big boy German brand and that’s what catches eyes on the road. Being disabled doesn’t mean you can’t have a luxury premium car? And with these German cars, take for example, Mercedes, they have the premium plus package which you can always add on and that adds in all the important lumbar and seat adjustments and the whole deal into it.

     

    Overall, I was just trying to say that the number of cars and the range of choice for under 25’s is decreasing and Motability should introduce something new, be it additional premiums, black box or something along these lines which would just open it up a little more.

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