too many suv’s

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    Topic
  • #144387 Reply
    wibbuk
    Participant

    so I’ve been on Motability now since 1988 and have seen a lot of changes with cars on the scheme.and now are changing very dramatically with electric and the suv trend.ford have now announced the end of the road for the mondeo.and as a wheelchair user the number of accessible family cars are getting far and few on the scheme.ive noticed more electric car on the scheme which is good but as the large family car are small in numbers and high ap,ive got to admit its getting a little worrying not finding affordable and wheelchair friendly car on the scheme.im hating the suv cars as they are dominating the car industry.i thing Motability need not to lose sight of cars available for the wheelchair user.it used to be lack of automatics, but not it the suv trend.

Viewing 24 replies - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #144394 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    wibbuk – With respect, the issue is not that there are too many SUV’s. The issue is that there isn’t enough choice of ALL vehicle types on the Motability scheme these days. I would argue that there aren’t enough SUV’s available through Motability! Most are small SUV’s usually with lower end engines and 2WD. You have rightly highlighted the lack of choice of larger family cars. Other people complain that there is insufficient choice of 3 door cars and electric vehicles, to name just two other types. All of these criticisms are correct and valid. This is what happens when the choice is eroded from over 4,000 vehicles to just 1,600 – a reduction in choice of 60%.

    What none of us should wish for is that the choice of cars that suit others, but not ourselves, should be reduced. Adding more cars of one type does not mean that another type has to be reduced. There could easily be three or four times the number of cars on the scheme, just as there are with other big leasing companies. Whether we like it or not, consumer demand is causing the decline of the traditional family car and the surge in demand of SUV’s. By the way, my wife is a full time wheelchair user and prefers an SUV! A government sponsored report into Motability last year highlighted that there is insufficient choice of larger vehicles given the number of customers with wheelchairs etc. Motability don’t seem to have adopted any of the recommendations yet, so let’s hope that they eventually get round to it and choice for all of us is improved.

    #144407 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Agree Glos, I’m another with an SUV with a hoist fitted and it is perfect for my limited mobility, as was the previous Touran MPV. there are plenty of very practical estate cars on the scheme, but I couldn’t get out of one. A bias against a particular segment due to personal feelings is the OPs choice, but not what Motability is about, imho.

    #144422 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Much the same here, a hoist user and SUV’s with 7 seats are the only cars that can accommodate my scooter fully assembled.

    TBH my current car is actually a MPV, anyone remember them, and there becoming as rare as Hens teeth. The only MPV on Motability now is the VW Touran and with the way they’ve hiked the AP on this quarter I think this one will be going soon too.

    So our choice now is an SUV or one of those vans the plumbers drives and yes they have nice seats in them, windows in the side and an infotainment unit but to me they look like vans with the style of a scaffold plank.

     

    I do agree, SUV, MPV, WAV, large booted car for we disable folk who require space for disabled equipment in the back do pay a premium never mind the extra premium to drive automatics due to disability as well but lack of saloon / hatchback cars are to do more with market forces than Motability I think.

     

     

     

    #144485 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hi Chris,

    I was shocked to see the AP of the Touran SEL. When I did the sums last July, spec for spec the Touran cost @ £2k more than the Allspace. Some of the extras are admittedly nice to have rather than essential. Now that has risen by another £2.5 k. Bottom line, the Allspace is a very good alternative to the excellent Touran and good to see it back on the scheme. The Tarraco has a similar spec. The Kodiaq, facelift in April, surprisingly more expensive.

    #144490 Reply
    Gary

    The problem with the Allspace, Tarraco and Kodiaq is that they wont take a 150kg wheelchair hoist 🙁

    Infact it seems not many of the SUV’s do, so next car will need to be using the ramps for our power chair, which I was hoping to ditch.

    In fact, with the general choice now available, I’ve been toying with stepping down from the bigger cars, and lowering the back seats and transporting the wheelchair that way, and if we go anyway that involves needing the back seats either hire a bigger vehicle for the period, or making multiple trips.

    I am tempted to see if VW have actually ordered my Touran from November (3rd) and if they havent actually done so (not had a build date/rough collection date yet) and get my £500 back and look to see if I the wheelchair will fir in the XC40.

     

     

     

    #144588 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Hi Clipped Wings

    The Touran has been in my sights for years because it was a great offer for the AP in fact it should have been my current car had it not been for the 9 month delays due to it getting its WLTP ticket back in 2018 but fortunately for myself I have some financial changing coming in June so will be able to afford the AP on a Allspsace.

     

    Hi Gary

    I’m just wondering what you have been told the problems are with a 150Kg hoist?

    I say that because I have a KIA Carens fitted with an 80Kg Autochair LC Range hoist and back in February 2019 my car was rear ended (3 month old at the time) so I had to have a replacement car for a few weeks while mine was repaired.

    The hire car was the same make and model, same trim level right down to being the same colour so much so the Grand Kids didn’t even notice the car had changed when I picked them up from school.

    What was different is this car was fitted with a 150Kg Autochair LC Range hoist and it was exactly the same size as my 80Kg hoist so assume all that changes are the motors that drive the hoist and or the drive gear worms in the hoist but either way they where the same size. Can’t think why there would be a reason for a 150Kg hoist not to be fitted to a car that can take an 80Kg one unless its to do with scooter / wheelchair type.

    #144595 Reply
    Gary

    So, I was advised that the cars aren’t strong enough for the 150kg hoist, well technically the hoist is fine, but the car isnt suitable to lift that weight. Apparently the Touran is, and the 5008 is.

    I should ring the garage really and see whats happening with the Touran, as had a look at the GLA and the B class, and I really like the look of them.

    #144607 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Ah yes never thought about the car itself and I suppose lifting a 150Kg could cause a bit of a strain on something like a city car. 😊

    With your Touran makes you think they might have already discontinued the model without telling anyone, same sort of thing happened with my KIA Carens when they discontinued it in 2018 and I think my dealer did not even know about it at the time I took delivery and mine is one of the last Carens on the road.

    KIA gave the excuse the demand was not strong enough to continue but I think it was more to do with not being able to hit the right numbers to get a WLTP ticket for their 1.7 diesel engine as they stopped making that too at the same time but of course the Touran does have its ticket but maybe there not selling many but more likely could be just a lack of PC chips holding up production and what better way to slow demand by hiking the price a few hundred percent even if its only Motability customers taking the hit.

     

     

     

    #144632 Reply
    Richard

    It’s the market, unfortunately. Every other car is a damn SUV. Its getting harder & harder to buy other styles even outside of motability.

    Try getting a large people mover now most are stupid tiny 5 & 2 kids in the back with no boot space until you get up to the expensive van based ones. Just seems the way the car markets going SUV everything sadly.

    #144639 Reply
    NewYork1
    Participant

    Sadly the car market is to blame as a few others have stated. Ford only managed to sell 2500 Mondeos last year so you can see why they are removing it from there line up.

    Current car
    Peugeot 5008 Allure Premium
    Previous Cars
    VW Touran SEL

    #144674 Reply
    lab
    Participant

    Personal I don’t think there is enough choice of SUV’s and since I can only drive auto and cannot have a diesel the AP prices are out of my reach. I can only get into a tall  SUV due to spinal problems, a lot of them have boots which are too small for my scooter or the roof is too low like the new 3008 roof height 1624 mm .

    I will need to apply for a grant this year as the AP prices have increased so much, I have made a list of vehicles with roof heights, boot sizes, images and AP prices, so I am ready for some of the unsuitable suggestions offered to me when applying for a grant. My wife is now disabled has a blue badge and uses a crutch, but she won’t apply for PIP. If she needs a scooter as well  I don’t know what we will do.

    I know autos are more expensive to build but the difference in AP seems excessive e.g. Citroën C5 aircross manual £395 auto £1,895 ?

    #144676 Reply
    Tim

    It feels as though the auto pricing is aimed at making people apply for a grant. With the profits motability have been making and the amount of grant cash on the table it seems to tie together.

    #144677 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    I know autos are more expensive to build but the difference in AP seems excessive e.g. Citroën C5 aircross manual £395 auto £1,895 ?

    The price difference for a C5 Aircross automatic over the manual is approx £1725, Motability AP is an extra £1500, the auto doesn’t add much to resale value, so, it looks a sensible (if frustrating) price difference. One of the best things about the EV future, there will be no premium for an automatic

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #144678 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    The AP’s for autos are indeed excessive. You can get higher trim levels of cars for a fraction of the price paid by retail customers, yet the majority of the price premium for autos seems to be passed on through very high AP’s. This is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, autos are worth more at resale time, so that should be reflected, but isn’t. Secondly, many disabled drivers need an auto but are financially penalised. It’s all very well mentioning grants but only a small proportion of Motability customers are eligible for them. Given that PIP isn’t means tested, I don’t see why Motability should be. Any driver who, by nature of their disability, has to have an auto, should be able to have one for the same AP as the manual IMO.

    #144679 Reply
    lab
    Participant

    The AP’s for autos are indeed excessive. You can get higher trim levels of cars for a fraction of the price paid by retail customers, yet the majority of the price premium for autos seems to be passed on through very high AP’s. This is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, autos are worth more at resale time, so that should be reflected, but isn’t. Secondly, many disabled drivers need an auto but are financially penalised. It’s all very well mentioning grants but only a small proportion of Motability customers are eligible for them. Given that PIP isn’t means tested, I don’t see why Motability should be. Any driver who, by nature of their disability, has to have an auto, should be able to have one for the same AP as the manual IMO.

    I agree.

    I have DVLA reportable health conditions, and the DVLA removed the manual part of my licence not that I could drive a manual any more anyway, therefore I have no choice but to drive an auto. I was told 80% of Motability customers have autos. We have had our current car nearly 4 years and have now had to extend the lease another 6 months, never had a grant we paid for our car by part exchanging our own car and got ripped off by the dealer.

    #144682 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    Any driver who, by nature of their disability, has to have an auto, should be able to have one for the same AP as the manual IMO.

    On that point I totally agree, I’m in the fortunate position that as a war pensioner, we do get that to a certain extent, in that the Veterans Agency pay us a grant to cover the difference between an Automatic and Manual version, although this is limited to £660.  As I said, in 10 years time, this will not be an issue as there will be no manual transmissions.

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #144684 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    lab – I didn’t know the stats about the percentage of Motability customers driving autos, but I’m not surprised that it’s high. I’ve just checked and found that only 4% of Motability customers get grants. Doubtless a small number of people who might be eligible are unaware of them, but the vast majority of people are clearly ineligible for them. So the suggestion that the AP’s of autos are designed to make people apply for grants clearly doesn’t stack up!

    #144685 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    Spot on Glos Guy and I’m sure you’ve seen my comments on this many times in this forum.

    I sent a message to Motability a few months ago about disabled drivers being penalised for their disability because like myself my “any car” license was revoked and its now “automatics only” one now because I became disabled though of course being disabled or becoming so its the same problem.

    I can take on board a higher AP if you want a bit more equipment in your car but what I asked was for is the automatic version of any given model to be the same as the manual version of any given trim, at the least for disabled drivers. I can’t imagine the cost being that great as I’ve read n the past that Motability numbers themselves says that only a third of there cars are driven by disabled drivers with the mass majority being driven by carers of disabled persons although some of those carers may have auto only licenses too but not that many I would imagine.

    What’s more worrying in the latest trends with everything going electric is not the fact that most, if not all EV’s are automatic any ways but those EV’s capable of carrying large mobility equipment in the back with the likes of 7 seat SUV’s is the cost of such vehicles at the moment are coming in at prices around and over £50,000 so lets hope that changes by the time we get to 2030.

    BTW, Motability answer to my question about auto / manual AP prices was to applying for a grant.😒

    #144686 Reply
    lab
    Participant

    lab – I didn’t know the stats about the percentage of Motability customers driving autos, but I’m not surprised that it’s high. I’ve just checked and found that only 4% of Motability customers get grants. Doubtless a small number of people who might be eligible are unaware of them, but the vast majority of people are clearly ineligible for them. So the suggestion that the AP’s of autos are designed to make people apply for grants clearly doesn’t stack up!

    Only 4% that’s shocking.

    Hopefully I am eligible for a grant my career was ended by chronic health problems which are now worse our only income is ESA and PIP, my wife claims carers and part of that amount is removed from my ESA.

    We don’t have any savings might be able to borrow a small amount from our son but paying it back is difficult, and he only works part-time so doesn’t earn a lot.

     

    #144690 Reply
    Tim

    Yeah… I still feel the auto AP’s are artificially high. I wonder what motability will do with their massive profit this year? Plough it into the grant scheme once again? I’m sure the grants will have to dish out to more than 4% of customers if that’s the case. Where did the 4% come from?

    #144691 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Yeah… I still feel the auto AP’s are artificially high. I wonder what motability will do with their massive profit this year? Plough it into the grant scheme once again? I’m sure the grants will have to dish out to more than 4% of customers if that’s the case. Where did the 4% come from?

    They issued 8,000 grants last year and they renew 200,000 leases per year. That’s 4%. It would be nice if they did something for the other 96% with the hundreds of pounds profit that they make out of each and every lease!

    #144692 Reply
    Tim

    Through our grant-making programmes in 2019/20, Motability committed more than £71 million
    in direct grant-making to support more than 25,000 disabled beneficiaries with the financial cost of their transportation needs – up from
    £53 million in 2018/19. Research with nearly 3,000 beneficiaries highlighted the huge impact a Motability grant has had in enhancing the lives of disabled people and their families
    by providing them access to transportation

    #144693 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Through our grant-making programmes in 2019/20, Motability committed more than £71 million in direct grant-making to support more than 25,000 disabled beneficiaries with the financial cost of their transportation needs – up from £53 million in 2018/19. Research with nearly 3,000 beneficiaries highlighted the huge impact a Motability grant has had in enhancing the lives of disabled people and their families by providing them access to transportation

    I wonder how many of those 25,000 grants were towards AP’s, as opposed to adaptations etc? Anyway, even if we assume that all 25,000 were towards AP’s, that would still be only 12%, so 88% receive nothing. The same point applies.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Glos Guy.
    #144762 Reply
    Jsh

    Same boat im in.

    The forgotten few who can’t stand to transfer and need a lower down car to slide transfer from wheelchair to driver’s seat, then load wheelchair into passenger seat which is impossible to dangerous in an SUV.

    There still plenty on the open market larger estates for example but they don’t fit the image of the scheme.

    It seems they are happy to upset a.small number to keep the majority happy

     

     

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