To mask or not to mask: what will you do after 19 July?

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  • #157464 Reply
    joss
    Moderator

    So on the 19th of July almost all of the COVID restrictions will be lifted in England according to The PM B.J

    So what will you do?

    What I will do is more or less carry on wearing my mask where appropriate. I will also still be careful of shielding because I am extremely high risk. However, as I have had both doses of the vaccine. I do feel safer to the risk.

     

    Joss
    ***🌻🌻🌻 ***
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Viewing 25 replies - 26 through 50 (of 57 total)
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  • #158016 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Totally agree, brydo, streuth, ajn. I find the attitude of those in power utterly disgraceful. If they should get infected they’ll be whisked away to a luxury private room in a private hospital with a welter of nurses and consultants to look after them. No shortage of all the high-tech, up-to-date equipment on hand either. Boris and his thugs don’t give a toss about Joe Public who will depend on over-crowded wards in the understaffed, underfunded, under-equipped and incompetent NHS.

    #158020 Reply
    joss
    Moderator

    Resident Evil: Welcome to Raccoon City.There are many books, movies and video games born of nasty diseases. Covid 19 may well be one of those books, movies and video games of the near future.

    Blundering politicians and dodge “buddy” deals, Under funded Hospitals struggling to cope with the infected populaces.

    Get your pop corn ready

    Joss
    ***🌻🌻🌻 ***
    Current car BMW X2 2.0i Sport sDrive Auto 2019 with Sport pack
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's

    #158090 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    I’m still checking the published stats and, to prove that it is just not my paranoia, here is what a survey by Imperial College found:

    The number of people testing positive for the coronavirus in England is continuing to rise rapidly, recently doubling every six days.

    Regardless of how the figures are broken down, this means that within two weeks, the number of people infected will reach the 1 Jan peak of infection. Further, the survey found…

    Between the previous testing round and these recent swabs, infections were doubling every 16 days. But during the recent round only there was an acceleration in growth, with infections doubling every 6 days and a corresponding reproduction number (R) of 1.87.

    Now, forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t the government say that we must aim to get the R number down to less than 1.0 if we are to win against the virus? Well, 1.87 is well north of 1.0. I leave you to make your own conclusions. For me, it just confirms my belief the Boris and his thugs care nothing about public health. As long as their mates are back making pots of money, they’re happy. That said, I’d like to see how they will avoid getting the blame when the NHS cannot cope and we are back to killing gods-know how many thousands of people per year.

    #158154 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    I doubt very much that I will be going out until the infection rates go down, unless it’s to somewhere devoid of people. We are looking at 1 in 150 people carrying the virus presently and I can only see that going up (or down whichever way you want to look at it) to 1 in under 100. A trip to a supermarket or any indoor setting and the risk of covid/long covid is too high in my view. The new rules or lack of them basically discriminates against disabled and high risk. Let’s see what the stats say in 4 weeks. I know my neighbours are going to switch to online shopping from next week. I would like some good news but like many I take mi e from scientists and medics, not politicians or company chief execs etc whose focus are profitably and the economy.

    #158900 Reply
    brydo

    Well “freedom day” is almost upon us, over 50,000 positive tests every day before we relax further, 100,000 positive tests per day predicted, how do we stay safe?????

    #158902 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    By getting on with your life?

    “On August 23, 1973, an attempted bank raid at Stockholm’s Norrmalmstorg Square went badly wrong.

    Four hostages were taken and the drama ended only five days later when tear gas forced the robbers to surrender.

    The hold-up would doubtless have been forgotten but for the odd reaction of the hostages, who formed a close bond with their jailers.

    And it was the events of those few days that gave their name to something now commonly described as Stockholm Syndrome.

    This phenomenon has often been identified in the half-century since Norrmalmstorg Square.

    But it has been remarkable to see it exhibited by whole swathes of the British public over the past year.

    After 16 months of being told by the state when we could leave our homes, whether we could see our families, with whom we were allowed to have sex, or what kinds of sports we were permitted to play, many of us are eager to regain the human dignity that comes with the exercise of our own free will.

    Others react differently.

    When told that their double vaccination gives them substantial protection from serious illness, people worry that the jabs might work today, but what about next month or next year?

    What if a new variant comes along that can evade the vaccines altogether?

    For many months the evidence has shown that the most likely places to catch Covid are care homes, hospitals and private homes, but opinion polls show a widespread fantasy that the real dangers are from international travel, pubs and restaurants.

    The Government’s least rational restrictions have played up to these unfounded prejudices, of course.

    The closure of Covid-secure restaurants last autumn came shortly after the Sage advisers published advice that doing so would be unlikely to make much difference.

    Similarly, making people jump through endless hoops and take multiple expensive tests if they want to fly to a safe and sunny country for a week or two by the sea must make those who don’t study the evidence believe that going to Majorca is a pretty risky business.

    The trouble with Stockholm Syndrome is that the greater the control to which people are subjected, the greater the dependence people develop.

    The line between coercion and care becomes blurred, the hostage starts to see the man with the AK-47 who holds him in a cell not as a jailer but as a protector.

    For 16 months, the British population has been subject not just to minute control but to a constantly changing menu of restrictions.

    First, you were banned from sitting on a park bench but could walk through a park. Then you could sit with a friend but only at opposite ends of the bench. Next you could talk to a friend outdoors – but not in a private garden.

    For months we could leave our homes for only one form of exercise, for shopping or for work. Then we were told it was safer to be outside all the time.

    We could walk right across a golf course with a friend – so long as no funny business like playing golf was involved.

    When I asked a Health Minister in the Commons how she could justify banning healthy activities such as golf, tennis or bowls, she actually replied that while those activities were indeed safe, if we ‘let people do those things, they might think they can do other things too’.

    How far a proud nation has allowed itself to fall!

    So, as we approach tomorrow’s partial lifting of restrictions, some of us eagerly anticipate being allowed to have a family meal again in our own homes and will do so.

    Yet others are anxious and are asking for restrictions to go on for just a little bit longer.

    We see this divide most clearly in the near hysteria about facemasks. Almost nobody is asking the serious questions about whether facemasks are actually effective in stopping the spread of Covid.

    Until very recently, both the World Health Organisation and the public health authorities in this country were saying there was very little evidence in favour of wearing them.

    The experience of different US states is instructive. California covered up and Florida didn’t, but it was the Sunshine State that emerged in better shape from the pandemic.

    We might also look at what has happened here. Masks seem to have been very helpful in eliminating flu, but Covid has spread regardless.

    Many politicians and advisers will admit privately that the policy change compelling people to wear masks was not really about the spread of infection at all but about the psychological effect that they would have.

    That real purpose is social control – to provide a constant reminder to maintain distance from other people.

    To maintain a state of anxiety that leaves people more likely to comply with the restrictions that might otherwise be resisted or forgotten.

    This is exactly the same approach that the Government’s behavioural experts on the sinister-sounding advisory group known as SPI-B – the Independent Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours – has admitted using.

    ‘The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging,’ said the SPI-B paper of March 22, 2020.

    This will be one of the most important questions when the inquiry into the handling of the pandemic begins: just how far it can ever be right for the state to use fear to manipulate the population of a free democratic country?

    Once we understand the extent to which our minds have been messed with, we can begin to understand the reluctance felt by so many people to get on with living their lives.

    The person next to you on the bus is no longer a fellow human being but a filthy vector of transmission.

    Hugging your grandchildren has been turned in the minds of many into a game of Russian roulette.

    Surely, after 16 months of behavioural science being used to heighten fear and anxiety, the Government should turn the dial the other way.

    Why not tell people that while a nasty new variant remains a statistical possibility, the vaccine seems pretty effective against all those that have appeared so far and is likely to remain so in the future?

    Why not explain to people that the usual evolution of viruses is to become easier to spread but less likely to kill?

    Most important of all, it is high time that the Department of Health started to publish figures separating out the numbers of hospital admissions where the patient really had been admitted because they were ill with the virus from those brought in for other conditions but who subsequently tested positive for Covid – a greater number.

    Sajid Javid, the new Health Secretary, made a great start when he wrote in this newspaper of the massive damage that has been done to people’s health and life chances by repeated lockdowns.

    He is right that we need to learn to live with Covid, banking the success of the vaccines.

    But the damage to schools, businesses and family holidays will continue until the threat of being ‘pinged’ and self-isolation is completely ended.

    How far tomorrow looks like a real Freedom Day will be up to all of us and our determination to return to normal life. It is time for us all now to start using our own judgment – but to get out there and start living as we did before.

    Let us take responsibility for our own appetite for risk, for our own lives, once again. Government should treat us all as adults.”

    #158903 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    Well “freedom day” is almost upon us, over 50,000 positive tests every day before we relax further, 100,000 positive tests per day predicted, how do we stay safe?????

    “Freedom” day for some is like prison for others. Will have to stay home, but at what cost to mental health/state of mind. However, I think the odds on another lockdown/restrictions have just shortened!

    #158907 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    The exercise of free-will seems to be the main theme of the quoted article, above. I will exercise my free-will by continuing to isolate as much as possible. Basically, from the government figures, Covid infections continue to head back to the peak of 1 Jan 2021; the number of people admitted to hospital also continues to rise at a worrying rate; deaths also rise dramatically while, at present, being lower than the peak. All figures show an alarming upward trend.

    It is not without note that the article was written by conservative MP Graham Brady (chair of the 1922 committee). It was published by the Daily Mail and those of us here, who can no longer get our Bentley or Maybach on Motability, know just how much that paper cares about ethics and truth.

    #158908 Reply
    struth
    Participant

    Up here masks and distancing remain for now; mainly i think as we were in a rising numbers situation. its reduced a bit now and England seems to be taking off now. But we are still averaging 4/5 deaths a day. Once i get my second jab i will be more than happy to venture out more; we have to start sometime, lets face it, but we also need to be careful especially people who are succepable. I caught the last pandemic which nearly killed me and destroyed my lungs. I dont want this one to finish the job.

    So go out and enjoy but take sensible care.

    #158909 Reply
    Serendipity
    Participant

    There is no logic behind certain rules and regulations, however, it’s always better to be safe than sorry, I feel more protected by vaccination, but some idiots always forget that with freedom comes responsibility.

    #158910 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    We have never had a clear message from government even if the message was to expect the unexpected.  Boris has been fixated with dates.

    #159041 Reply
    Brydo

    Nightclubs open again in England.

    #159043 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    For how long?

    #159052 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Oh, goody! Shall put on my orange loon-pant flares, my purple paisley satin shirt and get on down there. Do they still do “The Twist”?

    #159062 Reply
    joss
    Moderator

    What’s a night club then?

    Joss
    ***🌻🌻🌻 ***
    Current car BMW X2 2.0i Sport sDrive Auto 2019 with Sport pack
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's

    #159079 Reply
    Brydo

    You keep it at the side of your bed in case of intruders 🤪

    #159084 Reply
    Georgie

    What I find  . . . Well, totally typical of this Government, to be honest – it “Nightclubs can reopen at midnight on 19th July” followed the next day by “Only double-vaxxed can visit Nightclubs from the end of September”.  What the hell good is that going to be after they’ve already been open to all and sundry for ten weeks!

    Having made such a mess of Brexit and not being able to blame it all on the pandemic for much longer, I’m beginning to suspect that not only the NHS but the entire country is now being deliberately run into the ground by the Tories so that they can flog it all off to US Consortiums, Russian billionaires and super-rich Arabs for a quick buck before the next General Election comes around.

    #159089 Reply
    Wigwam

    Maybe the government wants infections amongst the young to go up so they can get the legislation to introduce covid passports through parliament?  It was always the plan to force the population to have digital ID, and this is how they will do it.

    #159090 Reply
    Serendipity
    Participant

    Maybe the government wants infections amongst the young to go up so they can get the legislation to introduce covid passports through parliament? It was always the plan to force the population to have digital ID, and this is how they will do it.

    Every law abiding citizen should carry ID, unless of course one has something to hide, and maybe Johnson simply wants to protect as many citizens as possible.

    #159100 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Ah yes, of course. Your papers, please?

    #159108 Reply
    Serendipity
    Participant

    Ah yes, of course. Your papers, please?

    We live in a digital age, pure and simple, I have nothing to fear, or hide, and I have zero time for the lunatic conspiracy brigade or their weird imaginings.

    #159111 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    The debate continues and will at the end of the day be shrouded in a degree of secrecy and an abundance of confusion!

    #159121 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I don’t have your confidence, Serendipity, that governments  (of any political position) act in our best interests.  They never have and they never will.

    #159408 Reply
    ajn

    #159411 Reply
    Serendipity
    Participant

    I can only apologise on behalf of the stupidly of my fellow countrymen

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