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Experts believe the higher death rates could be explained by hybrids’ combination of petrol engines and batteries and electric motors, which can be harder to control and more prone to fires.
The RAC Foundation, a transport research organisation, called for a ‘dedicated investigation branch’ to look into the trend. ‘It’s high time we had a specialist resource to address road safety risk’, director Steve Gooding said.
The cars’ batteries may also be to blame. They can be damaged by the heat of the engine, which burns at extremely hot temperatures, making them more liable to set ablaze.
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Experts believe the higher death rates could be explained by hybrids’ combination of petrol engines and batteries and electric motors, which can be harder to control and more prone to fires. The RAC Foundation, a transport research organisation, called for a ‘dedicated investigation branch’ to look into the trend. ‘It’s high time we had a specialist resource to address road safety risk’, director Steve Gooding said. The cars’ batteries may also be to blame. They can be damaged by the heat of the engine, which burns at extremely hot temperatures, making them more liable to set ablaze. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15416671/Death-rates-hybrids-three-times-leading-road-safety-experts.html
Sorry, but I find that a really strange ‘calculation’ on the RAC’s part. Given the ratio of Hybrid/Electric to ICE cars there are out there.
Mother Nature don't draw straight lines, We're broken moulds in a grand design, We look a mess but we're doing fine, We're card carrying lifelong members of the Union Of Different Kinds....
Fisherman's Friends, Glastonbury 2024Hybrid batteries are located to the rear of the vehicle and are often found located in the boot floor, under rear seats or under the car to optimise vehicle weight distribution and ensure stability and handling of the vehicle. Therefor aren’t affected by the heat of the engine!
In mild hybrids the intergrated starter generaor replaces the flywheel, so is sufficiently cooled and the 48v battery within it is smaller than the the vehicles auxillary 12v battery which has sat in the engine bay for many years without issue!
However, an high electrical current, two fuel systems and two bombs!
Media reports vs relaity and flawed statistics, as of the end 2024, there were more hybrid vehicles on UK roads than electric vehicles according to the SMMT, yet the same related article on press reader tells a different story (below)!
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-mail-on-sunday/20251228/281543707282708Sorry, but I find that a really strange ‘calculation’ on the RAC’s part. Given the ratio of Hybrid/Electric to ICE cars there are out there.
W@nky net earch – Hybrid Car Fires Increasing RAC:
“The RAC has not provided specific statistics on the increasing number of hybrid car fires.”
Typical Mail shite, as Mike says!
@wmcforum Save space Ctrl Alt DelBe it Covid, climate change, free cars for the disabled ect ect one thing we can do less of is EXPERTS.
We had the Octavia mild Hybrid, the battery was under the front passenger seat! The article does mention danger to passengers.
Be it Covid, climate change, free cars for the disabled ect ect one thing we can do less of is EXPERTS.
Delete? Just as well kezo isnt an admin lol
You cannot argue with facts and pretend to know everything just because you may have or want a hybrid lol
The startling findings come from Department for Transport statistics that have now prompted urgent calls for action from transport and safety organisations.
The transport research body is now pushing for a dedicated investigation branch to examine why hybrid vehicles appear to be so much more dangerous on Britain’s roads.
According to the official figures, 122 people were killed in collisions involving hybrid vehicles during the past year. By contrast, 777 deaths were recorded in crashes involving petrol cars.
https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/hybrid-cars-deadlier-petrol-diesel-models-uk-roads
So the moral of the story, if you don’t fancy being barbecued whilst you drive don’t buy a petrol or diesel vehicle.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
To continue breaking down GB New article (previous post awaiting moderation)
The batteries themselves present particular dangers. They can be damaged by the extreme heat generated by combustion engines, making them more likely to ignite. Once alight, battery fires are far harder to extinguish than conventional car fires.
Fact:
The article relates to PHEV’s and not wider Hybrids, as the press would like to make out. PHEV batteries are often fitted under the car similar to EV’s due to there larger size and are positioned to the rear of the vehicle for weight distribution, away from the engine!
There are also risks from the high electrical currents flowing through hybrid vehicles, which can pose serious dangers to occupants and emergency responders following a collision.
Fact: Is this not especially true for BEV’s?
Emergency services face significant challenges when dealing with hybrid crashes. Firefighters and paramedics often require specialist training and equipment to manage the different nature of hybrid vehicle fires.
Fact: This is also true of BEV’s, as litium batteries also need a different approach and specialist training!
There is also the added risk of toxic gases being released if batteries are damaged, further complicating rescue efforts.
Fact: Does this not apply to BEV’s also?
Nicholas Lyes from the road safety charity IAM RoadSmart highlighted the technical difficulties posed by hybrid vehicles. He told The Mail on Sunday: “Plug-in hybrids are often heavier and more complex vehicles owing to the fact they run on both a traditional combustion engine and a battery.”
Fact: PHEV’s are heavier than equivulent ICE, but not as heavy as an equivulent size BEV (Sportage gts PHEV 1900kg EV5 gts 2200kg). Yes they have two fuel system that are seperated and combine at the flywheel and note as I said earlier 2 bombs!
So, it seems from my first response (moderated) there are calls for a road safety branch in general, but is not specifically related with hybrids or any single fuel source. It seems, the press are inadvertently targeting BEV’s with much of their waffle and why there is always the need to seperate the media from reality!!
Be it Covid, climate change, free cars for the disabled ect ect one thing we can do less of is EXPERTS.
Delete? Just as well kezo isnt an admin lol You cannot argue with facts and pretend to know everything just because you may have or want a hybrid lol The startling findings come from Department for Transport statistics that have now prompted urgent calls for action from transport and safety organisations. The transport research body is now pushing for a dedicated investigation branch to examine why hybrid vehicles appear to be so much more dangerous on Britain’s roads. According to the official figures, 122 people were killed in collisions involving hybrid vehicles during the past year. By contrast, 777 deaths were recorded in crashes involving petrol cars. https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/hybrid-cars-deadlier-petrol-diesel-models-uk-roads
I don’t pretend to know everything, but the power of the internet allows you to seperate fact from the media fiction!
Lets break down the GB News link:
Campaigners warned the figures raise serious questions about whether hybrid technology is being pushed onto motorists faster than its safety risks are being properly understood.
Steve Gooding, director of the RAC Foundation, said: “It’s high time we had a specialist resource to address road safety risk.”
Fact:
33 organisations and Steve Gooding – The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (PACTS) has coordinated a groundbreaking manifesto calling for immediate and strategic action to address the persistent issue of road deaths and serious injuries in the UK
Establishing a Road Safety Investigation Branch – An independent body modelled after existing transportation safety branches to analyse road incidents and provide actionable insights for preventing future tragedies.
This has nothing to do with a particular type of vehicle and is related to a general group looking to set up to provide general insights.
I shall continue…
Fact remains you showed your true colours by calling for my post to be deleted simply because you do not agree with its contents
I can only assume by your knee jerk reaction that you drive one of these hybrids
Facts show without any cherry picking that mixing a petrol engine and an electric battery into the same vehicle isnt the safest of ideas as my other post shows
USA detail /Facts which again you quickly dismiss I suspect are more available than those in the UK )
The DM and GB News were quoted simply as they do not have a paywall
Not quite sure what bubble you are stuck in
Are you saying the Telegraph ( paywall) have also got it wrong or why a USA fire differs from a UK cars fire
Calling facts out as fake news,even Trump cant pull that one off lol
I will conclude this topic/post by simply saying
Its clear only to you why you have such tunnel vision on this particular topic
Either way its an odd reaction from what I previously considered a welcoming forum
But please refrain from calling for the removal of my posts simple because you do not agree with them
Your attitude imo serves only to make others feel unwelcome
Happy new year all 🙂
Who has called for your post to be deleted?
Here’s a startling fact, I once read that 1 in 7 deaths on our roads are caused by drink driving so 6 in 7 deaths are caused by sober drivers so I say legalise drink driving now.
Please don’t take this seriously but take it as a joke as in my post above and all your New Years will be happy ones.
BTW I’ve said nothing about kezo and have taken his advise on board on many occasion but a bit confused here as a thread might have been deleted or edited as I seem to have become a target for some unknown reason because I simply said we have too many experts in the world today and refer to media and over paid government experts who more often than not, get things wrong and I respect the helpful information often found in this forum.
Fact remains you showed your true colours by calling for my post to be deleted simply because you do not agree with its contents I can only assume by your knee jerk reaction that you drive one of these hybrids
Hi Jojo, I don’t disagree with your content per se, what I do disagree with however, is the same old UK press. A report was published in the US surrounding “Plug in Hybrids”, which your typical UK press picked up on(inc the Telegraph) and in their typical style made it sound worse than it was by suggesting all types of Hybrids were affected, which was not the case. To make matters worse, they then start to quote deaths and officials such as the RAC chief are wanting an urgent enquiry group set up, to look into this specific area. This is an outright lie, as the RAC along with other organisations have been calling for such a group surrounding “general” safety and not specifically plug in hybrids (see “Brake” link). The press do this to instill fear and not everyone is likewise minded and this is where my qualm lies, rather than with you specifically.
On your other topic, you mention the NTSB, which I also gave a summary to the NTSB report based on plug in hybrids, which are found in the US rather than any other hybrid type. However, the point still stands vehicle standards differ to european counterparts and cannot use reports from a country that has different build regulations to our own. I do agree fire is fire and differentiate by country or person.
Do I drive an hybrid, specifically a plug in hybrid, which is what the subject is/should be related to, then the answer is yes, but I have maintained throughout, I am driving two bombs!
Happy new year!
Who has called for your post to be deleted? Here’s a startling fact, I once read that 1 in 7 deaths on our roads are caused by drink driving so 6 in 7 deaths are caused by sober drivers so I say legalise drink driving now. Please don’t take this seriously but take it as a joke as in my post above and all your New Years will be happy ones. BTW I’ve said nothing about kezo and have taken his advise on board on many occasion but a bit confused here as a thread might have been deleted or edited as I seem to have become a target for some unknown reason because I simply said we have too many experts in the world today and refer to media and over paid government experts who more often than not, get things wrong and I respect the helpful information often found in this forum.
Hi Chris, I asked for Ctrl Alt Del in an earlier post, as whils’t there is some truth behind the story which originated in the US, the typical sterotype UK press got hold of it and put 2 an 2 together and come up with 5 in the standard scaremonering way, which I have tried to unpick fact from fiction in a couple of posts above.
Who has called for your post to be deleted? Here’s a startling fact, I once read that 1 in 7 deaths on our roads are caused by drink driving so 6 in 7 deaths are caused by sober drivers so I say legalise drink driving now. Please don’t take this seriously but take it as a joke as in my post above and all your New Years will be happy ones. BTW I’ve said nothing about kezo and have taken his advise on board on many occasion but a bit confused here as a thread might have been deleted or edited as I seem to have become a target for some unknown reason because I simply said we have too many experts in the world today and refer to media and over paid government experts who more often than not, get things wrong and I respect the helpful information often found in this forum.
Kezo called for the Admin to delete my factual OP for no reason other than I suspect it didnt align with his own narrow view of such matters
I dont know but suspect he may have a hybrid and bless him he simply got himself into a hissy fit and went into another one of his essay denial modes
Following a quick observation he tends to quickly jump in on every post and he can be very helpful and also as he has been proven here
Be open to knee jerk at times imo
Water under the bridge now tbh as I have little time for such petty and tbh rude outbursts.
Dont worry it hasnt put me off this otherwise enjoyable forum
HAPPY NEW YEAR and I look forward to reading and also contributing and helping with many more posts in 2026
@jojo22 You have got @kezo completely wrong. He is a long standing contributor who frankly could not be more helpful. He is never rude, unlike another (thankfully infrequent) contributor who is extremely rude and clearly has anger management issues!
Kezo does have a plug-in hybrid, but (like me) is unconvinced by them, so there’s absolutely no way that he is defending them just because he has one.
There are relatively few of us who have contributed regularly to this forum over many years, so our posts may seem disproportionate. However, with the sole exception of the one poster that I referred to above, it is almost always friendly. We may disagree with each other – and often do – but it’s usually done respectfully or with humour.
Occasionally we get a new poster who, for want of a better term, ‘picks a fight’ and becomes very critical of some regular posters. This can drag on for some time, but when that person eventually realises that they are wrong, they quietly disappear (rather than admit that they were wrong). Kezo has been through all of that, as have I, but has always retained a polite and cordial dialogue, even when some posters can test the patience of a saint. He has also been a valuable source of reference for those considering EVs and he was even an immense help to me when I had electrical problems at my house.
I have no interest in the subject matter of this thread, but felt that I had to step in to stress that you have got Kezo wrong. Very wrong.
Kezo called for the Admin to delete my factual OP for no reason other than I suspect it didnt align with his own narrow view of such matters
The story was based on a factual report in the US by the NTSB, which eventually the usual culprits of the UK press picked up on and basically twisted, which I tried to explain on the 28th, my reasoning and that it wasn’t directly aimed towards you, which you chose to ignore and steamrole past. I had also provided a link previous from BRAKE, that clearly showed, the usual press were bending the truth and the fact that the RAC chief or anyone for that matter were looking specifically into “hybrid” deaths, but again you chose to ignore and carry on with what you yourself call “knee jerk” comments.
Given the type of forum, its understandable some users are more vunerable than others and could take things at face value, so yes I called for the topic to be deleted because the subject was not entirely factual to the UK and got twisted to a certain extent by the usual press culprits over an investigation to “plug in hybrids” in the US, with different standards to europe. I recall a similar post by yourself over Hyundai Ioniq 5 battery replacements.
I am an active member of this forum and enjoy interactions with others. I also offer help upfront or if a member asks in areas that I am qualified which I’m sure is appreciated. Likewise, I also have a keen eye at sorting facts from what is often twisted by usual culprits of our press. I also happen to be admin on another forum and may sometimes overstep my mark and if you have a problem with any of that, its for you and you alone to sort out, not me or anyone else for that matter.
I am sure the forum is large enough for both of us to coexist together without stepping on each others toes or the need for us to cross paths again and with that I bid you good day and happy new year!
We don’t need all this scaremongering, we drive a Hybrid the last thing I need is some muppet posting superious claims, it good job my wife doesn’t read these forums she would have panicked.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
How much you can give on that Daily Fail article is shown in the last paragraph.
“With Labour’s ban due to take effect in five years’ time, the new figures will be a worry for ministers as they grapple with a declining interest in hybrid vehicles.”
The Daily Wail seems to have missed the fact that the ZEV Mandate (or “petrol ban”) was a conservative policy. Labour didn’t introduce it, Tories did. Irregardless of what you think of the ban itself, the fact that they just blatantly lie should immediately make you question anything you read in the article. And yes, this isn’t a mistake, it’s a deliberate lie. Boris Johnson was very open about it, i actually still remember his speech about his 10 point plan and the “green industrial revolution” – and it’s not my job to remember this, and i follow politics only tangentially on top.
That said, lets look at the actual claim.
“Death rates in hybrids are higher than in petrol cars”. Okay. So lets start with the obvious issue that this statistic doesn’t actually point out a reason for the fatalities. It’s the typical “9 out of 10 murderers consumed milk for breakfast, ban milk” statement. For all you know, this is coincidence, or may be related to PHEVs generally being considerably more powerful than their non-electrified counterparts.
Without knowing the cause of the fatalities (as in, battery fires etc), you actually can’t infer anything from that statistic in regards to their safety.
Hybrids also aren’t more prone to fire. Think about it for a second, in a vacuum. You have battery vehicles (be it PH or BEV) on one side, and then on the other, you have a thin metal/plastic container full of liquid that is literally designed to catch fire/explode.
If the battery itself was an issue, BEVs would be prone to fire. They’re not – they’re far less likely to burn compared to an ICE vehicle. Leaves the claim that batteries in PHEVs somehow magically degrade because, in the DMs mind, it’s mounted on top of the exhaust manifold. Which of course it isn’t. It usually is mounted in the floor or boot. They don’t get hot. This is, yet again, shown by the fact that batteries in BEVs have to be actively cooled (or reduced in power output), whereas in Hybrids, that is not the case – because they don’t get hot enough. This entire claim is nonsense.
Now, the reason we’re arguing “fire” here after arguing “deaths involving hybrids” is a claim made by US outlets, lets look at that then.
For starters, this isn’t a statistic. It’s a third party aggregate estimate – there are actually no official numbers corroborating this.Those US numbers are based on “dozens” of reviews, as well as some cobbled together numbers from non-official sources.
For us here, the numbers published by swedens MSB (Civil Contingencies Agency) are considerably more applicable (similar regulations), as well as more reliable. They’re somewhat less precise since they bunch up PHEVs with BEVs, but it’s still an absolutely obvious picture. In Sweden, 0.004% of all electric vehicles (as mentioned: PHEVs and EVs) caught fire. For ICE, that number is 0.08%.
And that sounds about right. I can’t tell you why the australian interpretation of cobbled together US data is so far off, but every statistic apart from this one points the entirely opposite direction, leading to a “vaccines cause autism” situation yet again, where one outlet (or “doctor”) releases an outlandish and moronic claim, and the media just runs away with it for decades to come.
That all said: if “errmahgurrd fire” is the problem, the solution is very simple. Ban petrol and diesels – will save plenty of multi-story car parks as well, considering they exclusively get set on fire by ICE vehicles so far.
Worth pointing out that the Mail did not reference the swedish numbers, despite them clearly popping up in a google search when you look for statistics on hybrid fires. You’ll also find statements by Thatcham Research, pointing out that ICE vehicles are much more likely to be subject to a fire related insurance claims than EV and PHEV.
0.001% for EVs, 0.003% for PHEV and REX (something like a QQai E-Power), 0.07% for Petrol and 0.011% for Diesel.
Lining up quite nicely with the swedish numbers.
Long story short.. Sensationalist nonsense, deliberately designed to mislead readers. In terms of fire safety, hybrids are no more dangerous than a container filled with explosive liquid driving 50mph, and IF they are more likely to kill someone (which i don’t think based on the statistic), it’s likely due to being on average 25-50% more powerful than the equivalent petrol engine (a Golf has 150hp, the smallest Golf PHEV has 204, goes up to almost 270 in the GTE). The battery clearly isn’t “the killer”, nor is the additional weight (BEVs have more of both battery and weight).
PHEVs are not less safe than ICE vehicles. You can get into more trouble due to being more powerful, but that’s a fault in the driver, not the propulsion system.
I didn’t even want to post this, but for people like Oscarmax’ wife, i think it’s important to point out, including a few hard and official numbers.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.Cars nowadays a heck of a lot safer than what we drove in 70s and 80s, So I am not going to worry and just concentrate on driving safely.
Cars On Motability
2009 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso
2012 Vauxhall Antara
2013 Skoda Superb Estate
2016 Seat Alhambra
2020 Seat Tarraco
2021 Ford Kuga
2024 Nissan X-Trail left in Sep 25
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