The "B" word has been agreed (Part 3)

This topic contains 154 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar fwipperie 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #79481 Reply
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    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    The previous B thread creaked under the pressure, please use this one going forward.

Viewing 25 replies - 51 through 75 (of 154 total)
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  • #79881 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    Fine interview by Raab on Ridge today.  Nothing must be ruled out.

    #79888 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Love it joss ?

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79892 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    Well spotted Joss.

    #79895 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    On TV this morning suggestions that Ken Clarke and other Tory left wingers, if such a thing exists, are willing to vote with the opposition to bring down the government if Johnston forces a no deal brexit.

    The ERG have told Johnston they will leave and join the Brexit party if he doesn’t leave the EU.

    A number of Tory MPs have been complaining that no one is worried about the lib dems, who they fear will win Tory remainer votes and therefore a number of Tory seats at the next election.

    How can anyone make this work?

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79897 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    Why do you think that BoJo will cut welfare payments Brydo – that’s just Project Fear working overtime?

    Truths about the Tory Government v the Last Labour Government spending!

    Labour say : Gov debt has doubled under the Tories – ‘wrong ‘it has risen by 53%, paying for the Financial Crisis of 2008!

    Tories say : The deficit is down by 2/3rds – ‘correct’

    Tories say : Unemployment is down – correct at it ‘s lowest level since 1974

    Comparisons.
    2010 Labour. 2019 Tories.

    Pensions spending              £ 126 b.          £172b.         Up by £46b.

    Health care.                           £116 b.           £152b.         Up by £ £36b

    Education.                            . £ 88 b.          £ 88 b.          Level

    Welfare                                   £110 b.           £ 115b.          Up by £5b

    Defence.                                 £ 42b.             £ 48b.           Up by £6 b

    Interest on debt.                   £42b.             £48 b.             Up by £6b

    It’s not all good news, clearly, and I’m sure that anyone can come up with other figures but these are facts and cannot be disputed.

    As I have already said two or three times , l am not a particular fan of BoJo, nor even the Tories, but facts are facts & myths take a bit of shifting?

    regards,

    #79898 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    I feel Boris will discover a suitable solution.

    #79900 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    Ah,

    it’s ok for people to change their mind over Brexit say Remainers and they should be given a second chance, but not ok for BoJo to change his mind and be given a second chance?

    Anything to stop Corbyn frankly!

    ‘BoJo Project Fear ‘ will change up a gear before Tuesday’s vote of course but I doubt it will stop the bandwagon?

    If i was a Tory MP or voting member, I would vote for Boris at this ‘special ‘ time, but frankly I prefer Jeremy Hunt , but he is not the man  of the moment, to get Brexit through and beat Corbyn if there is a GE?

     

     

     

     

    #79912 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    I have read the ERG are going to support Boris but their support is conditional upon him delivering Brexit by 31st October, if necessary a WTO Brexit. Should he fail they will resign en masse and join the Brexit party and a no confidence vote would likely follow and a general election. I would therefore expect Brexit to be delivered  and although much more twisting and turning is still ahead of us I am now considering if the ERG has played it’s trump card in what has been a very long game. I feel also the EU when faced with the potential loss of £39b and the real prospect of no deal will compromise, particularly as below top coat, cracks have been in evidence. I expect that perhaps Raab may be re-appointed as Brexit secretary. Although debate on TV later I shall watch India v Pakistan cricket highlights and season finale Hawaii 5-0.

    #79916 Reply
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    Magnum Mike
    Participant

    Jeremy hunt was terrible when he was health secretary

    I like Magnums....

    #79922 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Mike 700 I have no problem with the figures or the Tory party in general, I believe that business creates wealth and must be allowed to flourish to produce the funds to allow peoples lives to improve.

    The figures however have nothing to do with Johnston so are not really relevant to him becoming PM.

    If you look at some of those rumoured to be backing him the majority appear to be ERG members, virtually all of who are on the far right of the party. As a result I am assuming it is unlikely the disabled will be high on the priority list after all he will need to pay for the tax cuts for his pals from somewhere. He has of course still to get any of his promises through Parliament, something he MAY find difficult.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79931 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Brydo, I don’t agree with your analysis of ERG members. They are mostly for a strings-free Brexit, they are after all the European Reform Group, but far-right?  Which ones look like that to you?

    #79932 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Rees mogg anti abortion under any circumstances.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79933 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    That doesn’t make him right wing. It’s a religious belief he holds. He has never voted against abortion.

    #79936 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Maybe we differ in what we see as far-right, Brydo. For me far right is defined by nationalist,  white supremacist,  anti-immigrant beliefs.

    Left wing politics v right wing politics are to me about belief in an interventionist big state  or a libertarian small state. Obviously it’s far more complex and nuanced than that.

    At the moment the population is defined not by their right wing or left wing beliefs, but by pro or anti membership of the EU which transcends traditional politics and is why traditional political parties can’t handle it.

    #79946 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    Ah, Brydo

    The reason I quoted figures was due to you indicating that BoJo will cut benefits to the disabled without a thought, whereas not only has he never indicated this, his party have a tradition, at least over the last nine years of increasing public spending, which is proven by the figures from the ‘independent “ office for budget responsibility ‘!

    So, my point was to pit facts against myths , because he has never said that he will cut benefits to the disabled, and as far as tax cuts to those earning over £50000, is  concerned many of these are the generators of many things necessary for a successful economy – just check on incomes of Senior Nurses, Senior Teachers/ lecturers, Police Sergeants etc etc etc as well as financiers , salespersons, even bricklayers and electricians, the list is long, so I don’t think his suggestion is to top up his ‘perceived ‘ rich mates?

    A successful economy allows us to increase Welfare spending to those in need, so encouraging wealth creators actually helps the worse off as well.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Avatar Mike 700.
    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Avatar Mike 700.
    #79950 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Mike I didn’t quote him, its my opinion of what he would likely do given the chance. As I said I have no problem with your figures or the Tory party but for you to suggest things will be similar under Johnston to what they were under May and Cameron I must admit I will need convincing on that one.

    If Johnston wins, I expect his cabinet to be made up of brexiteers and I would suggest the majority of them will be to the right of the Tory party. This is traditionally where those less favourable to paying out benefits can be found.

     

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79951 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    With regard to the tax cuts to the wealthy where do you think he will get that money from?

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79952 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Wigwam right and left is subjective, for instance MPs on the right wing of the labour would not be considered right wing MPs in the Tory party but i believe most pundits would suggest the ERG are on the extreme right of the Tory party.

    I have copied a few pieces from a couple of on-line news feeds, as ever you can choose to believe the contents or not and i can`t vouch for the accuracy of any of the pieces.

    “Jacob Rees-Mogg is pushing a right-wing Tory agenda while using his position as a platform for his political scheming,” said Jon Trickett, shadow minister for the Cabinet Office, in a letter to expenses watchdog Ipsa

    “What little is known about the ERG’s other funding includes the fact that it has received donations from GR Software & Research Limited, whose parent company, Pans (UK) Holdings Limited, is registered in the British Virgin Islands (a tax haven). Benjamin Leadsom, husband of leading Brexiter Andrea Leadsom, was listed as a director of GR Software & Research Limited, along with his brother-in-law, the hedge fund manager Peter de Putron. De Putron’s financial activities have been described as being cloaked in a ‘labyrinthine off-shore company structure, which has made it impossible to ascertain who his clients are’”

    “Prior to Rees-Mogg taking over, the ERG was chaired by Steve Baker, who is also closely associated with the Legatum Institute and the Cobden Centre”

    https://thebrexitsyndicate.com/2018/07/05/legatum-institute/

    https://thebrexitsyndicate.com/2018/07/04/cobden-centre/

    “Baker’s own financial arrangements have also come under some scrutiny, after an investigation by OpenDemocracy revealed that he had ‘taken money from an arms company while promoting the aerospace industry in parliament; accepted travel costs from the government of Equatorial Guinea before writing a report dismissing concerns about their human rights abuses; and accepted conference expenses from radical right wing American groups with links to Robert Mercer and the Koch brothers’”

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79955 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    A country ‘s income has to come from somewhere, Brydo and encouraging the wealth creators is the best way forward for any country.

    Socialism however caring, doesn’t create wealth ( Socialists have created very many good things like the NHS etc., so it is not all bad, and some socialist ideals are admirable) but Socialism has to be paid for, and it often comes at a very high price – but, and this is an extremely important question ‘where does that money come from’?

    It has to come from the wealth creators of course i.e., and the best way forward for any country, is to encourage wealth creators , who in turn create jobs, which produces higher tax revenues – so what if some get rich, a small price to pay to enable the whole country to benefit from their taxes I.e we all share in their wealth anyway, without ( nationalising ) stealing their business.

    So, rather than kick them in the ‘profit’ area, we should encourage wealth creators , and higher tax revenues.

    Criticise, ostracise, humiliate, insult, chase the wealth creators away, and see how far the ‘socialist ‘ project gets?

    Wealth creation and yes, Some wealthy people ,is the way to pay for the Socialist dreams, and frankly, most socialists know this to be true, but it is highly unlikely that they will publicly recognise this fact .

    #79956 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    So how much do you give back to those who NEED it least do we go to say £100,000 as that would give them more so increase jobs in the country etc. So why not make it £200,000.

    It seems he is to get the money back by increasing national insurance for everyone, a kick in the unmentionables for many of the disabled ouch!

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79957 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    I was listening to the radio as i was typing the above post and “seemingly” the above option is being discussed. One of the main problems however is that up here we get all income tax generated by Scottish workers but the national insurance goes to Westminster. There is a clause in the devolution agreement that Scotland cannot be disadvantaged financially by Westminster so it wouldn’t work in Scotland without some sort of pay back being agreed.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79958 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    I have a suggestion about a way around the Irish Backstop. Last year there were discussions about building a bridge from Scotland to Nothern Island. If this went ahead it would transfer the eu/ UK (England really) border to England/Scotland. None of us have a problem with using tech to work any border between us and it would solve the problem of Scotland leaving the eu so everyone would be happy. lol

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79965 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Johnston’s a no show ?????

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #79973 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Yup, he didn’t attend a debate with questions from people who can’t vote for him viewed by people who cant vote for him. And those that did attend were banging on about why they should be Prime Minister when they won’t be Prime Minister.

    On the other hand he is attending a hustings today in front of MPs.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Avatar Wigwam.
    #79980 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    Second vote shall perhaps result in loss of two, possibly three more candidates. Debate on BBC1 Tuesday perhaps short in numbers, Gove outsider now. What would happen if Boris gets over half the vote and ALL other candidates fail to secure the 37 votes needed?

Viewing 25 replies - 51 through 75 (of 154 total)
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