SINCE THE WITCH HUNT DAILY MAIL DAYS

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  • #136676 Reply
    daveblue
    Participant

    Since the Witch hunt of the Daily mail a few years ago the Motability choice seems to have gone downhill. I can remember being on the scheme since 2001 that the choice for automatic and even manual cars has steadily decreased.

    Now it as a disabled person i had choice, like able bodied, to go down the contract lease or buying a car. I can if i have the funds buy anything automatic but as we do not get a credit check with motability that is our best option. I still have a car and thank god we have the scheme as i am a great supporter of them but they have been got at by the media and it is the cost aspect i know but it used to be better.

    When it comes to some cars the Abarth new updated 2021 model year car for instance semi automatic there is only one car on motability, the manual,  on contacting the Abarth management they told me last year that they would put the whole range on the scheme tomorrow but motability will not have it and they are sad they cannot offer there model range and there must be other manufacturers that are in the same boat. It looks like it is the policy of motability now to restrict many cars on the scheme and no i am not talking about very high priced cars i am only talking about choices of Automatics where sporty or not it is a policy which like the hire purchase of new and used cars was taken away and even the wav highly adapted cars that you can no longer get any help with advanced payments on if you do not work or you have to be doing voluntary worth for more than 16 hours a week and prove  it to adaptations team that was sneaked onto the policy not much was told to us about this but disability rights uk said it was unfair even a lady that already had a wav car on the scheme for 5 years was unable to renew her car and although she used to do voluntary  work she was too unwell to carry on and there must be many thousands that are no longer entitled to any help for these high price wav highly adaptive cars i did not know though that the wav or drive from wheelchair advanced payments were so much.

     

     

Viewing 24 replies - 26 through 49 (of 49 total)
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  • #137296 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Cars have become much heavier so need more power to shift them.

    Places I want to have power – accelerating onto a congested motorway where everyone is doing 70+ in all lanes, accelerating out of danger when a lorry decides to change lanes into the space I’m occupying . Both experienced recently…

    #137298 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Looking at the Motability price lists put up on this forum for tgat tine, apart from the Land Rovers, there is nothing in those lists I would want. much better choice today

    Southamman – as I pointed out on another thread, I’m afraid that you completely misunderstood the old price lists. They merely list highlights of a few hundred cars from a selection of over 4,000 cars that were available through Motability back then, and mostly just the entry level ones.  There are now less than 1,600 cars available through the scheme. That’s a reduction of over 60%, so clearly there is NOT much better choice today. The complete opposite is the case.

    There is no logical or justifiable reason for that drop. It has been suggested that there are less models of cars available now, but I don’t believe that the facts support that. In fact, of all the main brands that I know reasonably well, there are more models, variants and trim levels now than there have ever been. Personally, I see no logic in all the restrictions that have gradually crept in. No harm in giving disabled drivers the choice of bigger, more expensive, higher powered cars as long as the AP reflects all the additional costs. Some people think that it’s daft to pay say £8k AP for an expensive car, but that’s a much lower % of the cars cost than say a car with a £3k AP, so in real terms is better value. Also, keep in mind that people forget the £10k sacrificed benefits that you have to add on top of the AP, which is exactly the same whether you have a zero AP car or an £8k one. The more expensive the car, the better the deal on Motability is (pro-rata)

    Some of us are fortunate that we can weigh up the Motability scheme against other options and Motability isn’t always the no-brainer that many people seem to think it is. However, many disabled people can’t do that and have no other choice and I think it’s a shame that the choice has reduced to such a huge degree.

    #137327 Reply
    Rico
    Participant

    Point one i was referring to a used one at about 26000 ref BMW hybrid, I would never buy new.. and lol that Leon is the same price as mini countryman with equil performance and better kit, numbers are all over the shop with motability at the moment

    #137338 Reply
    daveblue
    Participant

    If it is an insurance cost why we are not allowed some cars then it is RSA that is the problem as i can get a top of the range insurance group 30 for only £250 a year with my driving record i really think motability needs to end and find another insurer i had my house contents insurance with RSA under the motability scheme and i made a claim and it was so bad the level of service i am now with saga which i have used before.

    #137341 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    Motability continues to offer a good selection of vehicles at competitive rates. As has been indicated a few higher end cars are no longer offered as these do not meet the criteria any more and most Importantly Motability’s core values. Looking back on the old price lists I feel generally it’s better value now. Similarly there is little criticism of the scheme too.

    #137345 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    If it is an insurance cost why we are not allowed some cars then it is RSA that is the problem as i can get a top of the range insurance group 30 for only £250 a year with my driving record i really think motability needs to end and find another insurer i had my house contents insurance with RSA under the motability scheme and i made a claim and it was so bad the level of service i am now with saga which i have used before.

    I don’t think insurance costs have anything to do with it Dave. With hundreds of thousands of cars insured under one block policy, the relatively small proportion of people who would have higher insurance group cars wouldn’t make a jot of difference in the scheme of things. Like you, my private insurance costs were very reasonable. I was driving a £41k car for 4 years until recently and my fully comprehensive insurance, including fully protected no claims bonus, legal cover etc averaged just over £300 a year. Generally speaking, the more powerful / more expensive cars tend to be driven by more experienced drivers with lower risk profiles and Motability already restrict the use of those cars to exclude younger drivers anyway.

    Given that any additional running costs can easily be wrapped into the AP, the restrictions in choice / price caps / bhp etc are not based on any sound logic whatsoever, other than an arbitrary decision not to allow disabled drivers those choices.

    #137347 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Motability continues to offer a good selection of vehicles at competitive rates. As has been indicated a few higher end cars are no longer offered as these do not meet the criteria any more and most Importantly Motability’s core values. Looking back on the old price lists I feel generally it’s better value now. Similarly there is little criticism of the scheme too.

    I might be missing something, but could you help me understand what precisely the ‘criteria’ is that now excludes over 2,400 vehicles that were deemed suitable for Motability customers in the past but are not any more?

    #137374 Reply
    psuader

    Hear hear Glos Guy! Fwippers, over to you.

    #137390 Reply
    marcus

    “I don’t think insurance costs have anything to do with it Dave. With hundreds of thousands of cars insured under one block policy, the relatively small proportion of people who would have higher insurance group cars wouldn’t make a jot of difference in the scheme of things. Like you, my private insurance costs were very reasonable. I was driving a £41k car for 4 years until recently and my fully comprehensive insurance, including fully protected no claims bonus, legal cover etc averaged just over £300 a year. Generally speaking, the more powerful / more expensive cars tend to be driven by more experienced drivers with lower risk profiles and Motability already restrict the use of those cars to exclude younger drivers anyway.

    Given that any additional running costs can easily be wrapped into the AP, the restrictions in choice / price caps / bhp etc are not based on any sound logic whatsoever, other than an arbitrary decision not to allow disabled drivers those choices.”

    Maybe there needs to be a new class for only over 35s too 😛

    #137447 Reply
    alan1302
    Participant

    Cars have become much heavier so need more power to shift them. Places I want to have power – accelerating onto a congested motorway where everyone is doing 70+ in all lanes, accelerating out of danger when a lorry decides to change lanes into the space I’m occupying . Both experienced recently…

    But do you need more than 200bhp to drive safely?  In my opinion, no, you don’t.

    My car is a Vauxhall Combo Life so bigger/heavier than most cars on the road and it has 130 bhp – that is more than enough to keep up with traffic, pull out quickly from junctions and get out of any trouble that there maybe with a lorry etc pulling out.

    130bhp is the highest power output and the van version of the car I think even has an 85bhp power which is enough to shift a van with a full loads of around 1 ton.

     

    #137453 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    Not everything is to do with bhp or engine size it’s also the torque and the gear ratio and how much boost a turbo gives and when it gives it, and the power to weight ratio. so certain cars can be very different it depends how you drive them or like to drive them..

    I been driving for work pretty much all my working life and have driven so many different types and some crazy miles, even rally driving in the welsh moutains of snowdonia.

    Some people prefer something over something else and others prefer what that other person hates and some thinks as they ok with x why should you be allowed have y, and maybe it’s just me but i don’t care about hate and those that hate just because they don’t agree with someones view. Like the hot hatch thread that got closed down..

    There nothing wrong with that at all.. we all different, but replys with do you really need that? or this? etc is not helpful. so on with what i was saying i don’t wanna go offtrack, but need saying.

    I used to have a mk7 1.6l golf tdi it had 110 bhp and about 250 nm of torque and the only time it was really an issue was when it was fully filled to the roof with camping stuff and 4 grown men (my brothers) in it and then i’d have to use the manual mode on the dsg box to pull away at any speed at all or to do an overtake but it still did it..just… Most of the time just slipping it into sport mode would do the trick.

    Now i have a 1.5l petrol civic sport it has 182 bhp and only 220 nm and when needed it will do that overtake i reckon 2 times faster and sadly the new golf mk8 / 1.5l petrol has only 148 bhp but  it does have 250 nm of torque. The manual civic has 240 nm and has a much higher top speed than the cvt gearbox that i have, but that top speed is not really needed so doesn’t worry me at all. it’s mid range speed i care about.

    The civic is such a joy to drive, whatever driving mood i’m in or road conditions occur. The beast can be released when it’s safe to do so..

    now imagine this!

    That truck starts moving across fast when you halfway past it.. I know which car I’d rather be in… Most of the time defensive driving is the best option but sometimes thats not an option and power is your friend. Imagine it’s wet also, too much power at once can be your enemy in many situations but so could braking, how close is the car behind you and what are the conditions all come into play when we talk safety.

    Bigger tyres have more rubber in contact with the surface and thus more grip, more water dispersal etc so there are pro’s and cons to all situations and add to that better brakes and disks, which cars are safer to drive is not in question imo. We talking stock cars as well not modified it’s like goldilocks and the three bears and look someone will like the its not so sweet or the it’s two cold. but in most cases you can have what you like the way you like it, before the golf i had a grand c4 picasso 7 seater as needs must and was great also, but i’d not get another citroen did have it’s issues but no problems driving it at all..un like a c3 a test drove 3 years earlier but it was very van like it got us from a to b but not with a smile on me the drivers face, like the golf did and now in the civic wow it handles so much better and the ride is more comfortable than the golf.

    So comfortable infact that my 9 year old has sat in the front only twice since we got it back in july. So i’m very happy with the car it’s perfect for me in so many ways and my son would of loved it, and it’s on the scheme but i do see it going due to the co2 levels and it being replaced with a hybrid or maybe an ev.

    Which will be sad in many ways as the roar of the vtec and when it changes is such great technolgy, getting more bhp from only a 1.5l is amazing even the power they get from the 1.0l is crazy imo and it reminds me of my 1st ever car a 1980’s honda accord fastback that was smaller than the current civic and had a 1.6 n/a engine and i think it had around 80 hp but i’d rather have this one, i may even buy it.. The smile it gives me is like the smile you get when you drive a van / truck all day for 8/12 hrs and then you jump into your own car a pug gti and your like yesssssss… It’s effortless at minimal throttle.. So there that as well..

     

    #137455 Reply
    Markymate

    What a cracking post, Rox.  Took me back to my tanker driving days, getting back to the depot, knackered after a days driving then sliding into my 2 litre twin overhead cam flame red Alfa Romeo Giulietta. LJO 75W  The noise from that engine was pure bliss.

    Thank you for reminding me!!!

    #137491 Reply
    psuader

    Good to hear there are petrol heads in forum. My sentiments exactly.

    Yes, we don’t NEED 250 bhp but we would like the choice of something frivolous and fun, spending our money, thank you very much.

    The debate isnt whether we need something, its about why Motability has directly limited our choice from over 4500 cars to 1600, within 5 years, in direct response to misplaced and jealous reporting. Is this last point accepted?

    #137493 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Good to hear there are petrol heads in forum. My sentiments exactly. Yes, we don’t NEED 250 bhp but we would like the choice of something frivolous and fun, spending our money, thank you very much. The debate isnt whether we need something, its about why Motability has directly limited our choice from over 4500 cars to 1600, within 5 years, in direct response to misplaced and jealous reporting. Is this last point accepted?

    Totally accepted by me psuader. Spot on analysis. Personally, 200 bhp is fine for me, but I certainly wouldn’t begrudge others who want something with more poke the choice. In the same way, those of us who would be prepared to pay higher AP’s for bigger / more expensive cars shouldn’t be begrudged by those who can’t or wouldn’t do so. All these restrictions (bhp, price etc) tend not to apply with other leasing companies. Motability is, I believe, the biggest commercial leasing company yet has the most restrictions. Doesn’t make sense really.

    #137531 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    Expansion of the scheme to include more powerful and more expensive vehicles could lead to review of the scheme and the support provided by the treasury in the form of various tax reliefs, without which, the scheme could not operate as it does now. Other leasing companies do not receive these benefits and therefore offer a wider range of vehicles usually at significantly higher cost and with lots more small print. I personally would like a bigger choice. I had decided on a 220hp Superb until the new guidelines came in a month before I could order but I accept there are many issues, and in particular  political factors which come into play. I dont like politics in general but regetfully accept the scheme is about presentation and perception as well as the provision of vehicles. So,  as long as Motability  continues to receive taxpayer support in the form of tax reliefs there will, invariably, be choice constraints.

    #137535 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    I follow your logic fwippers, but the Motability scheme used to have none of the restrictions that we have now and still had all the tax benefits, so I don’t see why it follows that if they relaxed the rules now they would suddenly lose them.

    #137539 Reply
    rox
    Blocked

    Politics, it is not imo it’s some sort of political correctness, virtue signaling that so many buy into.. All to please the tax payers and voters or this group or that group etc and we never treated equally… and then it’s on to the next issue to get votes again, politics is just a form to control of the general population. It’s like a magic trick. it’s an illusion and not real imo..

    Those that fight for rights they did not have and then get, then trample on the rights of others and i just think, that’s all so wrong, but thats how the powers at be want it. So someones always upset on the outside as others get and they do not and it breads deep resentment. Imo It keeps us all divided as then we weak and not strong and united. That’s part of the trick as well..

    They create all the chaos and then offer the solutions. These days it’s all for our own good and they know best.. like the constant taxes or fpn’s they implement to steer us to where they want..

    Seems birmingham wants a congestion charge of £12 per day to make us all go electric before 2030. we will probally be exempt but for how long i do wonder.. They did have some crazy plans imo before covid and it will rollout to everywhere. Will the public want it or will it be forced upon them or minupulated in certain way that some just agree as they think it’s for our good, when imo it’s only to raise revenue to further their agenda’s and keep us down and trapped in the cycle and exploit us all… With hidden cost’s of living rising and rising until you can only just survive..

    Say they said we cannot buy the car at the end (not that alot can afford to) Is that not like saying you must rent a flat or house and your not allowed to buy one, trapped in an endless cycle and nothing ever to show for it.. lining someone else’s pocket in the process..

    Car’s lose money so i’m not say it’s a perfect example but you’d then have to keep paying forever to stay mobile.. So why should we not be allowed to buy it at the end and just settle the remaining balance. As over the 3 years we have put a huge chunk into that one car, alot may be depreciation (minus other costs of the scheme) That would be fair right. The only reason i think will still can buy and it’s not really advertised by mb is it would lead to claims of discrimination.

    I know we can still buy the car at the end but that was another issue alot hated about the scheme and didn’t see why you should be able to. but i bet for themselves they’d want to buy and not rent if they could.. Personally i think the scheme is great but it’s not for everyone now, as it should be imo as disability is not means tested and nor should it be.. Sometimes life’s just not fair though and is always gonna be some issues that arise and i dunno how the scheme will cope moving forward to 2030 and the recent report/ review that was done and i guess soon those recommendations maybe adopted. who know’s though..

    It’s the same thing with benefits (which we all on to get a car on the scheme as well) and the way if you claim them you sterotyped as the drags of society and i not saying they don’t exist but it seems often the masses have to suffer for the sins of the few and it always ends up with more restrictions and thus less choices and more costs to us.

    #137546 Reply
    sif

    I used to subscribe to the ‘you need the acceleration’ to get out of trouble defence. In truth I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times in a lifetime of driving when really rapid acceleration has got me out of trouble. It’s just not swift enough, reaction time is much more important than acceleration as is judgement, if you get yourself into a situation like that, the chances are you aren’t reading the road correctly. Those were the occasions only rapid acceleration corrected my faults. On one of my speeding re education courses we had a go at hazard spotting. I saw the most (ok over the top) at over 50, some were multiples, the average for the group was quite high, but some got in single figures. Our own appreciation of our driving skills is like our perception as lovers, none of us is bad at it. The reason I get done for speeding is because I drive usually at what a safe speed is, not what the signs say. I also get honked at on a particular  40mph road because I drive at 30 or less on it, any more is dangerous.

    If you ever get the chance to train with the police you will see they really are trained to read the road a long way ahead. There are few situations where really rapid acceleration gets you out of trouble. You should have not got in it in the first place, better to work on your road reading rather than buy a quicker car, what’s the difference in real terms between 0-60 in x or 0-60 in y, for that short span of time it could make a difference better driving would be more sensible. And for me, everyday, I see people who have not read the road get into trouble, that combined with slow reactions is far more of a problem than acceleration. How many people always slow right down at roundabouts  every time because they can’t read the traffic and slot seamlessly in. If you are reading it right and you know what all the cars are doing you will see it before you get to the roundabout. Its no good always deciding what to do when you get there, cars don’t materialise out of thin air.

    Even if you had the reactions of an Alonso and the cockpit of a ferrari around you, the road is full of people who don’t see any hazards, have the reactions of a slug and should not be in a car. Half the time your swift progress is going to cause them to brake violently and cause a pile up as they over react too slowly and too late.

    I get the sexiness of certain models, I get the thrill of the open twisty road, when you can find it. But it really comes down to what you fancy, what you feel when you are in it and how you feel it handles. But none of that is within the remit of motability. I used to buy and sell cars. Image is a potent seller, but motability does not care how you feel, just whether you get from A to B.

    Have a track day, buy something rapid and trudge out to anglesey. You won’t get it on motability, nor should you.

    #137554 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    It’s the same thing with benefits (which we all on to get a car on the scheme as well) and the way if you claim them you sterotyped as the drags of society and i not saying they don’t exist but it seems often the masses have to suffer for the sins of the few and it always ends up with more restrictions and thus less choices and more costs to us.

    Not quite… War Pensioners aren’t on benefits, although I do get your point, and there are less than 11000 of us getting WPMS, so most of the time we are such an insignificant minority, that we don’t even count!

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury

    #137568 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    I take on board all the above recent issues mentioned. However, I still believe that power-to-weight ration is all important. Other obviously disagree but the more bhp per unit of weight, the more relaxed and under-stressed the engine. Unfortunately, the only way we have of quickly discerning the power-to-weight of a car is the 0-60 figure. This makes it seem that one is interested only in doing boy racer stuff. I am not. I have had two M0tability cars capable of 0-60 in less that 7secs, they could reach 155mph and had F1 style launch controls. I never use ANY of these facilities. I stick religiously to speed limits and only exceed them when it is safer to do so (overtaking a heavy doing 69mph on Mway, for  example).

    Rox, you are SO right about the reasoning behind cutting back on the “free super luxury limo’s” we used to get on the scheme. The Flail attacked us because we are an easy target. It makes the paper look worthy and sells copies. The government knows that Flail readers are a big source of votes so it backs the campaign to the hilt. Sad comment on human nature!

     

    #137571 Reply
    Elliot
    Participant

    @sif I am used to your posts regarding power but I don’t agree. Which car do I enjoy driving most out of the 3 on my drive. Well it’s not my sons 116 BHP Q2, it’s not my company 120 BHP Corolla it’s my 184 BHP 320i. The driving experience with having the extra power is so much greater in the BMW as is the engine sound plus the fact it is so under-taxed compared to the other two. I love to put it into sport mode on twisty roads and use the flappy paddles to change up and down gears. Maybe in about 20 years time this won’t interest me but at the moment it does.

    #137573 Reply
    bobscot

    The power arguments rumble on and whilst I can’t agree with the need for high power vehicles and claims they are safer, I don’t see why their availability on the scheme is so restricted. A high powered vehicle on a premium badge would be cost prohibitive to most with the  undoubtedly high APs they would attract; however if someone is willing to lay out thousands up front why should they be told no especially with all the high powered EV options coming from manufacturers. Most scheme participants would not consider over 200 bhp as desirable but i can understand the frustrations of the few who seek  more  exciting options which they are happy to pay for.

    #137578 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    The search tool on motability had the option to search from Low to high BHP and vice versa but this disappeared  a while back. In reality torque is a bigger factor in acceleration.

    #137580 Reply
    Elliot
    Participant

    The thing is @bobscot there are plenty of vehicles out there that are not expensive and meet all the parameters except the power one. Examples are the VW Polo GTI, Hyundai i20 and Ford Fiesta ST.

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