September 15, 2018 at 10:45 pm #60734
I recently had my PIP face2face and I’m trying to prepare myself for the worst.
If I lose my entitlement, I’ll take the extended 26 week lease rather than the £2,000 and appeal the decision. If I was to have a successful appeal, I understand that I can still keep my current car for the 26 week period “for free” as part of the transition package.
I also understand that if I rejoin after this 26 week, I don’t owe Motability any money.
But if I order a new Motability vehicle, let’s say, 13 weeks into this 26 week period AND know for certain that it won’t be delivered until after this 26 week period, where do I stand? I.e. am I considered to have rejoined the scheme when I place an order, or when I collect the new car? Or am I considered to have never left the scheme and would owe up to 26weeks of lease payments?
September 15, 2018 at 11:26 pm #60735
Not sure you can order a car during the 26weeks its just to prevent losing a car abrubtlySeptember 16, 2018 at 9:09 am #60753
I have left Motability because of the DWP Gestapo tactics to get disabled benefits cut on behalf of HMG but that’s another story that I leave here.
Once the DWP tell you (I really hope they don’t in your case) you have not qualified for high level mobility PIP you then have about 5 weeks to hand the car back and can claim the £2,000 golden handshake.
In my case and with no confidence what-so ever in authorities having gone through the so say Mandatory Reconsideration like speaking to a brick wall I decide to approach my bank for a loan to buy my Motability car. Having secured a loan with a good interest rate it was a case of myself waiting until to what I thought was a good time to action of buying the car with the monies secured.
Still in the 5 weeks grace period I decided to have a clean sweep of it in the New Year and rang Motability the day they opened their office after the New Year holiday. BTW the £2K has been deducted from the cost of buying the car.
I buy the car then wait another 4 months for an appeal to my PIP allowance and in April I won that case and now have the higher award with a 10 year period.
Bare with me as I do go on, after winning the appeal I decided to rejoin Motability so I could sale the car I never really wanted to buy but had to because of it’s adaptions and recoup my £2K inconvenience money.
The time scale at this time being 1 month and a week since the DWP cut off period and the car is now mine.
The appeal in April bought that time to near on 5 months, so 5 months since the end of November 17, DWP cut off but 4 months since buying the car.
Having approached Motability as to how the rejoining penalty worked they said if I was to rejoin there and then I would have to repay them £1,750 and that’s the £2K less good condition bonus unless I rejoin 2 months later (6 months after buy the car and 7 months after DWP cut off) I would pay nothing of the £2K.
Nothing off the £2K however I did have to repay the time Motability did not get paid from the DWP and that’s was from the end of November until buying the car the first week of January. They told me this money is owed to Motability by the customer however they said they do not ask for the money back unless you rejoin.
So in your case if you go for the 6 months hand back you will get £250 and have to return the car there after but if your successful you just carry on as if nothing has happened.
As to reordering a car within the 6 months I think will require a call to Motability as its a bit like when I won my appeal I could not order a car 2 months before the penalty clause kicked in and had to wait the full 6 months and now having done that, having to wait another 5 months for a car to be delivered however I could have had an immediate delivery had a suitable car been available.
My guess is they may want you to pay back the dues of any part of the 6 months Motability haven’t been paid.
Hope this all makes sense.September 16, 2018 at 9:27 am #60754
Should just add as it may seem unfair of Motability asking you to pay off the dues, you will get your PIP payments backdated so in my case this was to the end of November so you should have the money to hand to pay off those dues.
Saying all that I would assume if you go for the 6 month period then that starts from the DWP payment cut off time so different rules would apply.September 16, 2018 at 2:25 pm #60758
Thanks for the detailed answer Chris.
My main worry is not having a vehicle to get to hospital appointments (most are hundreds of miles round trip).September 16, 2018 at 3:29 pm #60763
That’s is the rock and a hard place we find ourselves in with a flawed DWP system but hopefully its improved a bit and a bit more honest because of the fallout in parliament over the 60-70% of appeal cases being won.
With myself if I had not bought my Motability car I would have been stuck with getting an automatic second-hand car for £2,000 and the adaptions would of cost me another £1,200 on top of that plus and with a couple of thousand I have in saving I would have ended up with a car I dare not go anywhere in in fear of it breaking down.
I could have just taken the 6 months but I’m not a gambling man but could of course still bought the car but at an extra £1,750 and an even bigger bank loan.
I was more or less 90% sure I would win my appeal but with that 10% doubt I could not gamble on as the stakes were so high if I lost with me and the good wife becoming prisoners in our home.
Best of luck with your PIP process.September 18, 2018 at 12:38 pm #60935
If you win an appeal you get the back money off DWP so your getting the money that should have gone to Motability anyway so should just be a simple case of paying motability up to date to get you back to where you where.September 18, 2018 at 7:20 pm #60975
I did make that point above under “Should just add as it may seem unfair of Motability asking you to pay off the dues” post above.September 18, 2018 at 10:16 pm #60980
I had my pip assessment was on highest rate on both parts they moved me to standard rate on motability.I kept the car for the 26 weeks won my tribunal got the back payment but as I had the car for that time I will have to pay the difference of the £2000 that I used before my 3 year contract is up . You can’t have it both waysSeptember 19, 2018 at 10:02 am #60992
If you can afford it the best bet is to buy your Motability car the minute DWP stop paying Motability as an assurance.
You will get the £2,000 deducted from the price you have to pay for the car and it is what I did but my mistake was to wait to the New Year then leave Motability and had to repay the 5 weeks dues. Had I decided not to rejoin Motability I would have paid nothing so in theory £2,000 up, well £1,750 up with returning the car in good condition.
The “in theory” bit creeps in because you have to take two things into consideration if you go the way I did and buy the car and that’s (1) is the Motabilty offer price for the car a good one as their asking price are said to be high, (2) depreciation of the value of the car during your 6 months away from the scheme although for me there is a third expense and that was because I had to borrow money from my bank that means paying £450 interest on top of the money lent.
So it’s not about making money and my thoughts are that the DWP should be paying us £2,000 compensation for all the trouble and distress they have caused disabled folk and when I collect my new Motability car I will sell the car I did not want to buy in the first place and hopefully breakeven after paying off the bank loan.
I don’t want it both ways, I just want justice for the sheer inconvenience that all the political parties have in stowed upon us all and add that Motability have had no part in this.September 19, 2018 at 10:47 am #60995
The other problem with taking the 6 months contract extension is of course should one not be awarded PIP by the DWP, the 26 weeks extension kicks in 4 weeks from that point.
However, as happened to a chap in our village, he was then waiting over two months for the outcome of his ‘Mandatory Reconsideration’ (the outcome of which was also a ‘no mobility award’).
He then had to apply for a First Tier Tribunal and it was another three weeks before the DWP sent him his ‘bundle’ to progress his Tribunal claim with. To date, he has now been waiting over 4 months for his tribunal as the Tribunal Service in this area are literally over-run with appeals. His car had to be returned earlier this month, as the 26-weeks lease extension had expired.
He is now rueing his decision to take the lease extension, vice taking the £2k ‘transitional support’ money, keeping his Motability car for up to 8 weeks from the initial DWP decision (as allowed by Motability) and then using the £2k to buy a cheap run around to keep him mobile.
So, whilst the 26 weeks contract extension does sound good in principal, it can have its drawbacks. Especially as how long it takes to get one’s appeal to the tribunal is not known at the start of the process, when one must make the decision about which ‘transitional support’ option to take.
DaveSeptember 19, 2018 at 11:10 am #60998
If I’m understanding correctly, if I take the 26 week free extension and lets say 13 weeks into the extention I get PIP reinstated, I pay Motability back the 13 weeks that they let me have the car for free?
If, in a future PIP review, they decide to downgrade/end my mobility component, will I be able to use the 26 week free period again, as I paid it all back, so never actually got a free period?
As you may have guessed, I do tend to stress about these things. I’ve not even been told that I’ve not qualified this time and I’m already thinking about appeals and appeals for future years.
I don’t want it both ways and I’m happy to pay for my “free” period. I just want to be able to get to my hospital appointments. I would love to be able to afford to buy my current car, but even though it’s almost 3 years old, it’s going to be completely out of my budget.September 19, 2018 at 11:41 am #61003
From what I understand the ‘transitional support’ is only available during the transition from DLA to PIP.
It does not appear (albeit I could be mis-reading it) to apply to ‘PIP ending’ to ‘PIP renewing’ claims.
But you do raise an interesting point about if having re-paid the full amount owing during the DLA to PIP transition, do you get a second bite of the cherry so to speak?
Possibly not, but definitely worth asking Motability, preferably in writing so you have a hard copy of their response for the future (in case they change their mind at a later date).
DaveSeptember 19, 2018 at 12:47 pm #61007
Hi Big Dave and guilders
Dave your story of your friend is the exact reason I couldn’t let my Motability car go, with that and the fact it has adaption’s fitted too. Those adaption BTW should have least given the DWP some indication that their sums were wrong and I should have never gone to appeal in the first place.
The point that guilders said was how I was thinking about it i.e. giving the £2K back so I had a safe guard for any future changes or goal post moving the government care to take to save money but like Dave has pointed out its help changing from DLA to PIP that you only do once.
The way the yellow belly government and the opposition have acted over Britex the past 2 years gives me no confidence in any future governments to look after the sick and disabled so do sometimes think I might keep my old Motability car laid up somewhere as an assurance.
By the time VW get around to delivering the car I will probably have paid the loan off anyways. ?September 19, 2018 at 5:05 pm #61039
Further to my comments yesterday, I took a chance taking the option of the 26 weeks and hoped to get the tribunal over in this time as I did not have the funds to buy the car , all I could of done was go to the bank and try to borrow £18k . Not much chance of that I was just lucky, to anyone going to a tribunal try and get some expert with knowledge of the benefit system to go with you ,I found someone I know you will think all right for you with your money but if you loose your higher rate of one or both you will loose a lot more in the long run , to have someone with me was who could pick upon things and answer if I was stuck was great ,hope this helps you allOctober 9, 2019 at 5:04 pm #90862
can I please ask do I have to repay the£2000 transition payment if I use it and my pip appeal is successful?October 9, 2019 at 5:37 pm #90868
Thomas I believe it’s only if you are eligible again within six months.
You would then need to ring them, discuss your circumstances, they may wave the payment or ask for some or all back.
If it’s after 6 months I believe the money is all yours.October 9, 2019 at 5:45 pm #90871
Taken from Motability website.
If I apply for PIP in the future and am successful, will I need to pay this money back?
This is a one-off support package to help with the transition from the Scheme and we do not expect that you’ll need to pay this back if you are later awarded PIP. However, if you decide to rejoin the Scheme within six months of receiving the transitional support package, you will need to speak to us to discuss your options.
Full information can be read here.October 10, 2019 at 7:40 am #90950
Just confirm what Phil and JS has said…
Here is a transcript of an e-mail from Motability Operation from when I ask that very question about the 6 months or rejoining sooner.
On 18 May 2018 at 09:38 Correspondence@motabilityoperations.co.uk wrote:
Dear Mr ***
Thank you for you email receive 11 May 2018, regarding re-joining the Motability Scheme. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding and hop this has not caused you any inconvenience.
It is lovey to hear that you have now been awarded the Enhanced Rate of the Mobility Component of the Personal Independence Payment (ERMC of PIP) and can fully appreciate that this has been a difficult few months for you, therefore, I am happy to confirm the following information;
As you received the benefit of the Transitional Support Payment, if you would like to re-join the Motability Scheme before 03 July 2018, we would ask that you re-pay £1,750, however if you choose to order a new car after this date, then you will not be required to re-pay this amount back to the Motability Charity.
I have spoken to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) this morning, who advised that ERMC PIP has been awarded and backdated to 22 November 2017. The DWP ceased all payments to Motability Operations for your Scheme car, when they stopped paying your Higher Rate Mobility Component of the Disability Living Allowance, on 21 November 2017 and we continued to support you through this period, until you purchased your car and the lease was terminated on 03 January 2018.
As a result of the support we provided, I can confirm that the rental arrears owed to Motability Operations is £356.29 and cover the period between the 22 November 2017 and 03 January 2018 totalling 43 days.
I would like to reassure you that we will only ask for the rental arrears to be paid, if you do choose to re-join our Scheme. This can be done by contacting our Customer Support Team, who are available Monday to Friday, 8.30am to 5.30pm. You can call us on 0345 155 6011 to pay by debit or credit card, alternatively you can forward a Bankers Draft payable to ‘Motability Operations’, please write your customer reference number, ******** on the back and forward to –
PO Box 65065
I trust that this information has been helpful, however, if you have any other questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact us on the above number and one of my colleagues will be more than happy to help you.