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Hi,
I am new to the forum so apologies if covered before, I did try a search but without luck.
Anyhow looking at electric MPV or in general the cars on offer tend to be the cars that only chump would hire or purchase. I guess this is a way of manufacturers getting rid of unpopular models. Everything seems very underpowered or very short range. Of course there are some good exceptions like from Skoda but, I am looking for a more van based mpv. The XL models are not available, and the larger models cost a small arm and a leg, but also have terrible range of 100 miles or less real world. I guess its back to a ford grand tourneo connect.
Many thanks.
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The van based people carriers on the Scheme, particularly the electric ones, are low on range and high in price. The diesel Grand Tourneo Connect is not what anyone would describe as a bargain. It’s a difficult situation as the projected resale price of these vehicles is causing them to attract a high Advance Payment.
Thank you. Glad its not just me.
Not particularly, but for the space it fits my needs and the electric alternatives are silly money.
The ford GTC was on offer before Christmas at £1,799. Now its £3 and bit K doh…
I have seen delivery drivers using ex wav and similar mobility vehicles because of van prices and availability.
I am not understanding why the projected resale price would be causing an issue. According to autotrader a low mileage, 3 year old version are on sale for almost the same price a new one!I am not understanding why the projected resale price would be causing an issue. According to autotrader a low mileage, 3 year old version are on sale for almost the same price a new one!
Obviously the resale values of all vehicles is high at the moment. If we look three or five years into the future I don’t think there will be much demand for a 50kWh battery sized Berlingo or a diesel Grand Tourneo.
Definitely agree with 50kw any car. Technology moving so rapidly.
The grand tourneo connect always seem to have a following maybe due to the low numbers in the first place ?….
Very versatile vehicle, and the revamp as far as a large box on wheels go is an improvement.
I am not understanding why the projected resale price would be causing an issue. According to autotrader a low mileage, 3 year old version are on sale for almost the same price a new one!
Obviously the resale values of all vehicles is high at the moment. If we look three or five years into the future I don’t think there will be much demand for a 50kWh battery sized Berlingo or a diesel Grand Tourneo.
Resale values in the 2nd hand market are historically high due to numerous factors such as shortages with computer chips, along with other raw materials. For example Ukraine use to make wiring harnesses for many of the European manufacturers. Many new cars coming through today often have electrical items missing, making the car a much lower spec than it previously was. This as also driven up used values as, a 2 or 3 year old car will often include these, such as heated seats etc, making them a much better optionespecially in higher trim models.
Battery technolgy is advancing, the chemistry used in the make up of a battery is allowing manufactures to condense more engery in near equivulent sizes, which means more range between charges. For example todays 50kw batteries for xample may have 100Wh per Kg, where as newer technologies such as semi solid state allow energy to be condensed so that a near equivulent battery can hold 200Wh per Kg = more range for example. Companies like Catl, BYD and WeLion are already producing semi solid batteries. In time this will progress to fully solid state batteries. So this will have a knock on effect in the used market.
ICE – petrol diesel vehicles, no one fully knows how much this will affect their 2nd values after the 2030 ban on the sale of new ICE powered vehicles. However the bandoes not include previously registered vehicles and its estimated they will still be on our roads into the early 2040’s. Not everyone however will be able to afford a electric car so these vehicles may be an attractive option to some. Currently diesels are the lowest selling out of all fuel options so 2nd hand values ay be hit.
It is a period of upheaval, coming out of a Pandemic, and transitioning to EV’s. The next 3 years will be more of a changeover period, with CATL batteries by the end of the year, EV’s will improve immensly.
ICE cars will be gone, the way of Steam locomotion. You may think you can keep running your ICE vehicle, but you wont.
Petrol stations will close as demand plummets, and petrol and diesel prices will go through the roof. It is basic economics.
In a handful of years, the ULEZ zones will expand from the cities and engulf the whole country.
We have seen the past 2 years the availability of Diesel vehicles plummet, give it another 3 years and the petrol engines will be unavailable as well.
It is human nature to fight against forces that want to change your way of life. But EV’s are coming and there is nothing you can do about it.
Some people just CANNOT handle change.
With battery cars, the more sleek they are, the better range they have.
problem with MOVs including the id Buzz is they are a slab design which doesn’t go through the air as well (same for our Range Raver v8, happy with 35mog on a run)
the mire batteries you put in, the heavier they are and the extra miles don’t rise much.
Amazon are now using electric cans, but we do need hydrogen powered vans and the infrastructure in place
It’s going to be fascinating to see where depreciation goes on ICE vehicles into the next decade. The variables will be demand from those determined to stay with dino fuels, availability of fuel, cost of fuel, the demand for BEVs and the demand for Hybrids of all forms. If the impending transition (2030 – 2035) to only BEVs means demand for hybrids shortens dramatically, then the demand for fuel may also reduce with more profit being available from converting petrol stations to charging hubs. Will that then mean that while the overall supply of Petrol and diesel will be readily available, the localised picture will be very different as a number of petrol stations close and are reopened as charging hubs.
If the fuel is harder to come by, does that then impact the value of the ‘old style’ vehicles that run on those fuels? Naturally there will be a filtering down of availability of non electric vehicles. By 2035 all cars 4 years old or newer will have a traction battery, if the 2035 Hybrid deadline comes in, then by 2040 all 4 year old cars will be fully electric. Does that then mean that ICE cars will become collectors items or ‘dirty smelly relics of a bad history? Will we have to wait for a generational change where the children of today (and future generations) are the majority of the adults and will have grown up knowing electric cars and having that environmental message drilled into them from a very young age? Will that translate into a massive reduction in demand for ICE? Will we find in 10 years that most under 25s will want to drive electric cars? Especially as the availability of BEVs in the second hand market gains popularity and market share – remember now the only BEVs in the sub £10k market are the Zoe, LEAF, E-UP (and it’s equivalents in other brands), I-Miev (and it’s equivalents in other brands) and a few hard done by Niro/Kona/Soul. These started off as relatively low range and small cars, I dread to think of the available range on a £5k LEAF or Zoe, even £10k might get you a 40kWh battery version that started off at 150ish miles.
I would guess (and that’s pretty much all it would be) that the bigger the vehicle, the longer the ICE demand will stay. If you look at current vans, most big vans are still diesel/petrol and the only battery versions are rather short ranged the Merc has a WLTP of 162, which probably translates to sub 140 and that’s of a 66kWh battery.
Sorry a bit of a ramble.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
Thank you all for responding.
I wonder if Brexit part of the issue. 75kw Nov available in Europe just not UK. We as ever seen to get the stuff no one wants.
Who is going to purchase an electric vehicle when 5 or 8 years later your power and range is now two thirds. Petrol and diesel may not be great for environment, but excluding that. I can’t see UK reaching its target for fuel change. As such I reckon petrol and diesel going to be about longer than folk think. Or resources will need to be found cheaply and without environmental impact ?
I assume long journeys in a EV would have a better range if motorways were ignored when possible
Although the journey may be longer the cars range may well be extended
I suppose this will also depend on the particular journey undertaken
Thoughts?
I assume long journeys in a EV would have a better range if motorways were ignored when possible Although the journey may be longer the cars range may well be extended I suppose this will also depend on the particular journey undertaken Thoughts?
Speed is the problem not the road. If you’re going to be cruising at 75 then you’ll get worse returns than if you set your speed to 60. If you can run at a steady speed you’ll go further than if you have to accelerate/brake regularly. Not unlike any car really.
When recharging is like filling up with petrol, then people will not be glued to their range as much as currently appears the case. Until then, just remember what killed the mpg and it’ll do exactly the same to your range. Likewise, everything (nearly) that maximised your mpg will help the range.
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
I wonder if Brexit part of the issue. 75kw Nov available in Europe just not UK. We as ever seen to get the stuff no one wants.
There are 75Kw available here if you look on manufacturers websites but, are not available on the the scheme!
However the majority of Europe (EU) homes have 3 phase electricticity so 11Kw and 22Kw home charger is the norm. Which is up to 3x faster compared to the UK and Irelands 7.4Kw dark age ones 🙂
Thank you, that makes sense. I have 3 phase can I get 75iw then ? make an exception car companies. ?
My thinking was that B roads will be slower and offer more regenrative opportunities
Will need to test this our
True and driving on motorway at 30mph would be even better range, I just don’t have that much time in my life.
Until there is better selection and more reasonable prices for electric vehicles most are dead on the water. If I didn’t need such a large vehicle the Hyundai, Skoda EV, look to have reasonable range.
But for me now it’s petrol this time.
True and driving on motorway at 30mph would be even better range, I just don’t have that much time in my life. Until there is better selection and more reasonable prices for electric vehicles most are dead on the water. If I didn’t need such a large vehicle the Hyundai, Skoda EV, look to have reasonable range. But for me now it’s petrol this time.
There are a number of EVs with decent range. It depends on what you need from a car as to what would work best. The fixation on range is only making a problem where one probably doesn’t exist, you can get anywhere you want in this country simply by planning your route to meet the chargers you need for the range of car you have. It’s a bigger issue if you have an old leaf with a 60 mile range but notsomuch if you have an ID5 with 300ish miles. However, it’s still very possible to get from anywhere to somewhere else, it just might take a lot of time.
The biggest barrier to BEV ownership is the ability to charge at home. Without home charging the numbers simply don’t work, unless of course you’re in it for environmental reasons…
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
My thinking was that B roads will be slower and offer more regenrative opportunities
That depends whether your a Stirling Moss or a Sunday driver ?
Coming from a racing family I’m definately not the latter!
I have been pondering for a while now whether I could make one of the longer range EV’s on the scheme work for my needs (The need of getting from A to B as quick as possible in an emergency). However visiting familily over the weekend, I took up the offer of driving my niece’s top of the range Enyak (the one with the brown leather seat) she has had since last June. The first thing I lookd at was the long term average of 3.3 miles/Kw over nearly 11,000 miles. In laymans terms she said she is getting about 250 miles during the warmer weather which dropped to a little over 200 miles or less if she left the heating on during the winter. Considering the acclaimed range was over 300 miles, I though this was shocking tbh nor would it certainly get me from A to B in an emergency situation during the colder months. I also wonder how my driving style would effect the range further. I also took the time to have a good look over it and in my opinion thought it looked better than any of the VW id’s except the the id7. My niece als opted for the 21 inch wheels which I wouldn’t recommend if you have back issues lol, although they did look nice!
I haven’t discounted an EV although not on the scheme now they will soon be had with semi solid state batteries with a much better range, that if I lost half the capacity it would still get me there in an “emergency” situation, Yes it would cost me alot more but, thats life! However I haven’t dscounted a hybridised for my next car, possbly a PHEV 🙂
We shall see. I’m still in thought overload lol!
Mobilityuser, it’s nothing to do with Brexit, and more to do with the EU killing its fatted calf, the European motor industry, by allowing Chinese cars in at great numbers and cheaper than locally built. In China, the manufacturing bubble has burst, with thousands of unsold cars, so they are dropping prices to shift them
companies like VW are now finding it cheaper to build in China and import back to the EU.
as for battery size, the majority of cars on the scheme are with the 77kwh battery, the largest available in bulk.
as tine goes on, battery ability will improve just like ICE cars have done, such as the Nissan leaf,which when brought out, was a much smaller battery, but the smaller battery second hand leafs still sell well, as they are used as city cars.
Future for ICE cars? I see vehicle excise tax rising on petrol cars (deisel is virtually dead) the cost of petrol rising, and less petrol stations being only petrol, rather, as is happening, turning into charging stations, with less and less pumps, more cities banning ICE cars making for many, the use of one prohibitive.
we are now in a transition tgat no political party is willing to stop, ICE only manufacturers will be destroyed by the Chines ev revolution im sorry to say.
At the moment small manufacturers such as Aston Martin, Lamborghini, and many others have been allowed concessions to not meet the EU emission ratings and Californias ratings, but Biden has now closed that loophole from 2025 making it impossible to sell these cars.
tge EU emissions EU7 and 8 are currently impossible to meet with ICE cars, a deliberate action.
It is a period of upheaval, coming out of a Pandemic, and transitioning to EV’s. The next 3 years will be more of a changeover period, with CATL batteries by the end of the year, EV’s will improve immensly. ICE cars will be gone, the way of Steam locomotion. You may think you can keep running your ICE vehicle, but you wont. Petrol stations will close as demand plummets, and petrol and diesel prices will go through the roof. It is basic economics. In a handful of years, the ULEZ zones will expand from the cities and engulf the whole country. We have seen the past 2 years the availability of Diesel vehicles plummet, give it another 3 years and the petrol engines will be unavailable as well. It is human nature to fight against forces that want to change your way of life. But EV’s are coming and there is nothing you can do about it. Some people just CANNOT handle change.
I can handle change but that change has to work and be suitable.
For me, an EV is just not suitable at this time. I cannot charge at home, we have very few charge points where I live and it would cost me an arm and a leg to get a plug in vehicle charged up enough to run about for the week, either through rapid charge prices and/or paying someone to take it to be charged and because of what would have to be used to get it there and back, would need a blooming big range to just do it the once a week.
EVs are great if you can home charge but are totally unsuitable for others at the present time and I can’t see that changing in our little town in the next 5 years…we actually have less public chargers than we did two or three years ago!
I’ve just ordered my latest Motability vehicle, another diesel. I’m hoping and planning on extending it and keeping it for 5 years, maybe by then things will have changed (have somewhere to charge or more charge ports available) by then.
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