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I have had an Ohme e-pod for just over 12 months and not had an issue until now. 3 weeks ago I noticed a burning smell from under the stairs where the fuse box is located. Around the same time an MCB (I think) tripped. It had the tumble dryer, dishwasher and dehumidifier on the same circuit and were all on. I also had plugged in the EV. I called an electrician as an emergency the next morning and he recommended that I replace the old fuse box with a new consumer unit which I agreed to. Last night I plugged the EV in and within 30 minutes the same smell was coming from under the stairs but nothing had tripped.
I unplugged the EV and switched the EV fuses off. The smell has disappeared now. The Ohme charger is under warranty for 3 years but they don’t open at the weekend. Am I safe leaving it until tomorrow till I can speak to them.
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The circuit the appliances are running on, will most likely be a 32A ring main and shouldn’t cause a problem.
Can you take a photo showing your meter cupboard or box particular showing…..
1-incoming main supply and electrcal meter?
2-the consumer unit for the EV charger?
3- The tails (thick cables) coming from the meter to you house consumer and where they split to supply the EV coinsumer uniy.
For now I suggest for safety reasons not to use the charger, as there might be a loose connection, which the emergency electrician should have checked/picked up on.
Hi@Kezo
Thank you for any help that you can give. I am attaching the photos hopefully they are what you need.
Thanks!
Can you smell where about the burning smell is coming from – and if you put your nose close to the smaller EV consumer unit, is there a faint smell of the burning?
There looks to be a henley block to the botton left of the meter (above the earth block), but I can’t make it out clearly, as the can pose problems where the tails can become loose, if not torqued down properly or if just a screwdriver is used. However, there only seems the main house consumer unit tails, being supplied from the meter and the EV charger consumer unit fed from the main consumer unit (I’d be interested how they have done that with tails)
Points:
- Does the EV charger have a dedicated RCBO (MCB) in the consumer unit?The top cable gland in the main consumer unit, doesn’t look fitted correctly!
- When the electrician replaced the consumer unit, did they supply you with a EIC (electrical installation certificate), as a board change is notifiable work to the local authority buidings dept?
- Did your DNO attend to upgrade the main cut out fuse, when first having charger fitted.
My advive, based on the electrician has completed his work to the relevant standards and has carried out the necessary testing, it can be assumed that side of the installation is safe. This leaves the EV consumer unit and its circuit and given the burning smell seems to arise when you charge your car and where, I initially thought the problem would be, along with if the EV consumer supply was connected via an Henley block, through splitting the tails from the meter. One thing, that is niggling me, is how the £emergency” electrician, has connected, the EV charger tails inside the house consumer unit, which hopefuly you can answer through my pointers questions above.
For safety reasons, due to risk of fire, I would isolate the main switch on the EV consumer unit and if supplied from an RCBO in the house consumer that to. Tomorrow, you then need to ring Ohme, and get them to come out and check their equipment and wiring.
If, with the EV side isolated, you get the burning smell, you would need to contact the electrician who did the work again, as a matter of urgency for them to attend again. Their work will carry a guarantee and its upto them to put it right, especially if they have missed something, they should have spotted, when carrying out their testing or through error.
Thanks @kezo
No I can’t smell anything near the EV consumer unit. I am attaching pictures of the Henley blocks and consumer unit opened.
The electrician hasn’t given me a EIC but I have chased him up and he is coming out on Wednesday to give me it. He was trying to say that it would be an extra charge so obviously not very trustworthy. Yes the top gland is a bit crooked. And the DNO said that the fuse didn’t need upgrading at the time.
Thanks!
Lets clear the easy thing up first: The replacement of a consumer unit in a dwelling in England and Wales is notifiable work and must be certificated for compliance with Part P of the Building Regulations. Therefore, an EIC or DEIC should be issued to the client on completion (Regulation 644.1). To ensure the person issuing the certificate is only accepting responsibility for the work undertaken (the replacement of the consumer unit and the safety of the circuits connected to it) the description of work should be recorded accurately and a tick should be inserted in the appropriate box on the certificate to indicate that the work involves the replacement of a consumer unit.
If a consumer unit is replaced every circuit must be tested and any defects that affect the safety of the installation must be corrected before the EIC is issued. (reg 644.1.2).
If the consumer unit is replaced and no circuits have been changed the EIC will cover the consumer unit. If a change of circuit or supply i.e the EV consumer unit supply has been changed from the henley blocks to the new consumer, that then becomes part of the EIC because a new circuit has been added to the CU. (I don’t know (if) why he would change the EV consumer supply and not kept it seperate from his work)
Moving on:
Glad to see a dedicated MCB, rather than trying to stuff them in the main switch with the 25mm tails, so thats one good point however, its normal practice to come off the non RCD side when supplying an EV consumer unit with a Type A RCD/RCBO, due to the potential of blinding upstream and downstream RCD’s/RCBO’s
Could you please take a close up picture of the of the RCD next to (directly to the right) of the EV charger MCB?
When the MCB tripped running said white goods last time, did it also trip the RCD?
Would it be possible to run the white goods that tripped the MCB for a short while (tomorrow is ok) and see if there is any whiff of burning smell? As I’m not convinced its that, now you have had your CU changed because, it would be be shoddy workmanship not to carry out tests required, inc checking for circuit faults before changing the CU. On that note, make sure you get the EIC.
Thanks. is this ok?
When the MCB tripped on the old fuse box it was a 16 amp one which I assume was not enough for the white goods that was running. A lot of what you have said has gone over my head but I will ensure that the electrician gives me an EIC on Wednesday. I will give the white goods a run now that I had on last night and let you know if any smell happens.It was only the dishwasher and dehumidifier and nothing tripped. I can’t understand why the EV charger didn’t trip. I will ring Ohme first thing tomorrow and see what they say.
Looks like BG Fortris CU with what look like type A RCD’s looking at the symbol under what looks like a 50p shape, so thats fine from that perspective.
At a guess, I would imaging the EV charger was initially supplied from the Henley blocks, so at that time would have been a seperate circuit and nothing to do with the 16A circuit that tripped, which, as you suggest is too low an Amperage, especially whent the diswasher is on heating cycle. Don’t see why he pushed a new CU, when it would have been a simple changeof MCB, but hey ho not to worry.
I think the next port of call is getting Ohme to attend due to a burning smell when in the cupboard when charging the car, whils’t making them well aware the house electrics have been fully tested and a new CU fitted by a qualified electrician. I wouldn’t mention the MCB tripping, as that is a seperate issue and not to confuse them.
I would tell also tell Ohme, you expect it to treated as an an emergency, as a matter of safety.
We shall speak later in the week, unless you have any questions in the mean time 🙂
That’s brilliant @kezo. I will ring Ohme tomorrow and I will keep you updated.
Thank you very much for your help.Who done the electrical installation? From what I can see, EV aside, I don’t like that the tails are showing single insulation on entry to the Henley block which they should be double insulated until inside the block, and there is a CPC is not sleeved which is not compliant.
When did you last have an EICR? I would heavily suggest getting one carried out soon because there, from what I can see, are some things that are easy to rectify but need done for safety.
Who done the electrical installation? From what I can see, EV aside, I don’t like that the tails are showing single insulation on entry to the Henley block which they should be double insulated until inside the block, and there is a CPC is not sleeved which is not compliant. When did you last have an EICR? I would heavily suggest getting one carried out soon because there, from what I can see, are some things that are easy to rectify but need done for safety.
Why would he need to pay £400-500 to have an EICR done, when an EICR or at least the testing should have been carried out prior to the recent consumer unit change.
Whils’t it can be seen as bad practice, not to terminate with double insulation inside an enclosure, it is pretty common, as a way of identifying live conductors, especially if the electrician does not carry heat shrink, which is quite common with domestic sparks from what I see. The other plausable cause is the sheath has moved when bending the cable. Anyhow, the gap is not sufficient to stick a finger in and at the worse, it would be a code 3 improvement recommended.
The means of earthing is TN-S, I can’t quite make out the connection on the cable sheath however, it use to be in the olden days a soldered (sweated) joint, a variety of what look similar to BS951 clamps, you see on pipes, this was untill constant pressure springs became popular. That makes it very difficult to tell the difference between a genuine DNO connection and one that’s been made inappropriately by bodge and job it electrical! However, from what, I can see of the clamping method for the supplied earth looks original and with TN-S (unlike TNC-S/PME), it forms part of the DNO side and their responsibility, as such it falls out of the scope of BS7671 and is therefore ignored if an adequate ZE is attained and neither did the supplier see the need to esculate for what ever reason. However, if esculated to the DNO, on the grounds of inadequate earthing on a TN-S supply, they install a new clamp if needed, which still seem to be of the 2 part brass clamps and supply a 10 or 16mm tail to whatever MET is available. (they will install a MET block if one is not there) and they will not interfere with a customer’s installation.
I must stress though, the urgency lies, with whatever loose connection (oops!) is causing the burning smell on load. The others are trivial at this point.
Unless I missed it, the OP did not say when the CU (main CU not the EV) was installed, and as such, could be overdue. And yes, while sometimes EICR is done before EV install, with some of the ‘installers’ that have been seen, is something some don’t even do (ie those who try to cram as many installs in as possible). Some even do drive by, if you know what I mean. It is however why I asked when it was last done, as if it is due, or past due, then I would still highly suggest it.
As I said, that is the EV burning issue aside, and just what I noticed in my general observation.
Unless I missed it, the OP did not say when the CU (main CU not the EV) was installed, and as such, could be overdue. And yes, while sometimes EICR is done before EV install,
“I have had an Ohme e-pod for just over 12 months and not had an issue until now. 3 weeks ago I noticed a burning smell from under the stairs where the fuse box is located. Around the same time an MCB (I think) tripped. It had the tumble dryer, dishwasher and dehumidifier on the same circuit and were all on. I also had plugged in the EV. I called an electrician as an emergency the next morning and he recommended that I replace the old fuse box with a new consumer unit which I agreed to. Last night I plugged the EV in and within 30 minutes the same smell was coming from under the stairs but nothing had tripped.”
Before replacing the main CU, which was within the last 3-4 weeks, pre testing an EICR would/should have been carried to be certain the installation is safe and fault free and any work that may be required agreed with the cliant before proceeding to change the CU. When the board changed, the characteristics of every circuit has been altered, along with possibly a change to the maximum Zs allowable by installing different fuses/MCBs. Upon completion, an EIC is issued with the test readings, which proves the circuits are safe to be re-energised. @aljohno The issuing of an EIC is notifiable under part P to confirm compliance because such work is notifiable under Part P and a certificate is provided up to a few weeks later from the local building control – this is in addition to the EIC. An EICR is not required for a CU change in a private dwelling however, it is adviseable to have one if the property is rented to comply with government legislation, along with every 10 years or change of tennant. Just to note an EICR can be agreed upfront with the house owner if they wish. An EICR should not be done on completion of the CU change, as a means of charging the customer more. Equally an EICR will assess the safety, condition and compliance of the installation over time and not just after installation of any works.
The EV charger was fitted circa 12 months ago and based on how most do it, I would imagine the charger was a seperate circuit away from the main CU and the supply taken from the Henley blocks, which would have been fitted at the time of install. Again, I can only guess the emergency electrician, has brought the charger supply circuit into the realms of his work and responsibility by supplying it from the main house CU. Given he was called out on an emergency, I don’t know what he did or whether he checked for a fault (loose connection) in the charger consumer unit or whether is was more interested in getting a CU swop based on a under rated MCB tripping, but that is not the focus here and something, I’m not willing to enter into discussion with. What I will say, is I hate domestic work and avoid it like the plague.
@aljohno how did you go on with Ohme?Hi @kezo The installer came this morning and said the main fuse was burning hot about 30 degrees. He called the DNO to replace it as an emergency. So waiting for them now. He did say about the EV charger tails going into the main consumer unit and that they should be going to the Henley blocks. He said to ring Ohme when the DNO have done and he will change the tails.
Hi @kezo The installer came this morning and said the main fuse was burning hot about 30 degrees. He called the DNO to replace it as an emergency. So waiting for them now. He did say about the EV charger tails going into the main consumer unit and that they should be going to the Henley blocks. He said to ring Ohme when the DNO have done and he will change the tails.
Thank you for the update – Im not going to openly speculate on the DNO side. What I will say is, the emergency electrician was just that, to check the cause of the burning smell, including that of the DNO’s side, as we have a duty to notify the DNO, rather than being to too eager to up-sell a new consumer unit. At least you will get the great pleasure of telling him what the fault was, he was paid to find, when he comes tomorrow:-)
Fair do’s to the Ohme installer though, for wanting to come back and put the install back to how it was fitted. Thats not to say it can’t come from the CU, but it should come from the non RCD side, which your hasn’t and there’s always the possibility of overloading the main switch 63A RCD in your case if more circuits are added, as explained previous. Hence, by far best practice, is to install a charger is off its own supply has it was when first installed.
I’d like to think the DNO will fit a new modern service head, but won’t count my chickens just yet, but above all safety is always first priority.
Please read my writing in Bold from my previous comment and ensure the electrician is aware tats what you expect to be done when he come tomorrow. Of course if he doesn’t show we can cross that bridge when everything is safe:-)
Thanks again @kezo. I have printed out the bold bit from your previous post re EIC. I will make sure it is done correctly.
I have had someone from DNO who said he was passing and had a look. He said they will fit a new grey box later today. I will let you know when I am all sorted.Hi @kezo
Just a quick update. The DNO changed the fuse to 100amp and the Ohme installation guy is coming on Tuesday morning to do the tails.
The ‘emergency electrician’ cancelled because he was unwell and has rescheduled for Tuesday afternoon.I will let you know what the situation is then.
Hi @kezo Just a quick update. The DNO changed the fuse to 100amp and the Ohme installation guy is coming on Tuesday morning to do the tails. The ‘emergency electrician’ cancelled because he was unwell and has rescheduled for Tuesday afternoon. I will let you know what the situation is then.
Thanks👍
Hi @kezo
Just a final update. The installation guy came and sorted the EV charger tails.
The ‘Emergency electrician’ came later that afternoon and was here for a couple of hours. He is sending the EIC in the post and is also informing the local building control. He didn’t say anything about the fuse upgrade and what was causing the burning smell when I told him.
Anyway thank you so much for your help and insight into this and needless to say I won’t be calling on the‘Emergency Electrician’ in future.Hi @kezo Just a final update. The installation guy came and sorted the EV charger tails. The ‘Emergency electrician’ came later that afternoon and was here for a couple of hours. He is sending the EIC in the post and is also informing the local building control. He didn’t say anything about the fuse upgrade and what was causing the burning smell when I told him. Anyway thank you so much for your help and insight into this and needless to say I won’t be calling on the‘Emergency Electrician’ in future.
Good to hear you finally got it sorted sorted to the regs and thankfully a decent charger installer, who’s number might be worth keeping. As for the “emergency electrician, I’d be surprised if he did say anything, as in theory his work could be challenged, but just put it behind you now.
Tip – Most electricians will attend to such problems “emergency” is often an over priced con in all trades!
Take care 🙂
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