This topic contains 39 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Trev 6 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #39786 Reply



    I’ve put the title of this thread in capitals because that is how important this is.

    The Court has decided that the government behaved illegally with PIP in regard to people with mental health problems.

    There is a stigma attached to mental health and none of us likes to admit that we struggle with issues, but the fact is we do. That includes a large number of us for whom the anxiety and stress caused by just living at home on a day to day basis, and trying to cope with daily tasks (that able bodied people may easily take in their stride). Going out and making even simple journeys while dealing with our disabilities can raise stress and anxiety levels through the roof, especially if you have to use public transport.

    As a result of the judgement 1.6 million cases will now be reviewed with 220,000 claimants expected to have their claims increased.

    When we answered the questions on the PIP form, how embarrassing was it to say we cannot do this and we cannot do that. Do we not now think that the government department responsible for the whole mess counted on our inability to be totally objective with such an emotive issue?

    The courts have acknowledged that vulnerable disabled people were taken advantage of by the mindless bureaucracy that intimidated us at every turn.

    The government has immediately accepted the Judges decision and say that they will not appeal it.

    Brilliant news!

  • Author
  • #39788 Reply


    Really good news and thanks for posting it. I agree so much more help is needed to mental health issues and the people that go through it on a daily basis. They seem.to be pushed to 1 side and forgotten about. All of us can suffer at anytime with this and people really need to understand that it is never obvious what is right in front of us. The way dwp have done the tests in the past is a joke even my wife who is blind and has all the paperwork was sent for one and upon arriving was told no need for you to be here I don’t know why they told you to come really nice man to be honest but we  was lucky so many others are treated unfairly and with life changing results as I’m sure we all know many people just give up. We all need to pull together and stay strong and help where we can. Together we are much much stronger and no more should someone feel they are alone.

  • #39789 Reply

    JS (justsaying)

    Brilliant news

    until mental health is no longer frowned upon and no longer a stigma we will all remain experts at hiding it or ignoring it, sufferers and non sufferers alike.

    This can only be a step in the right direction!

  • #39799 Reply

    Glos Guy

    I am grateful to Pops for starting this thread and for the very articulate explanation of the issues faced by those with mental health issues. I must confess (and please don’t shoot me down, I’m just being honest) that I have never really understood why somebody with, for example, confidence issues leaving the house, warrants a level of benefit that ultimately provides them with a Motability car, on the basis that I can’t see why having a car provided by Motability suddenly overcomes issues that cannot be addressed with a car of their own. The explanation provided in the first post does help me understand why this might help, for example, if the persons issues are with using public transport and they don’t own a car and can’t work to pay for one.

    As a tax payer, I do feel that the benefits system needed overhauling as it is well known that it has been subject to enormous levels of fraud which we all end up paying for. It is also well known that the Motability scheme has been subject to substantial fraud. I guess that, historically, it had been easier for people to over exaggerate the impact of mental health issues than it has been for those suffering from measurable physical disabilities and it became an obvious area to target. The end result, of course, has been that those with genuine and severe mental health issues that may well be debilitating have suffered.

    However, whilst I have some sympathy with the need to overhaul the benefits system, the whole PIP process has been appalling, in my opinion. My wife’s disability is physical rather than mental, yet she found the application process overwhelming. I completed all the forms for her and it took me a week to do it properly. I can quite believe that many people would have taken one look at it and just given up. My wife has a serious, progressive, degenerative condition, for which there is no cure. She now has to use a wheelchair and cannot stand unaided. Her condition will only worsen, yet her PIP entitlement suggested that the next review would be in 2-3 years time. I submitted a Mandatory Reconsideration (or whatever it’s called) challenging the need for her to be subjected to it all again so soon and asking what medical evidence they were relying on that suggested that her condition might have improved by then, given the fact that there is no cure. Within a few weeks the decision was overturned and her earliest possible review date is now in 10 years time. All of this was a considerable amount of work for me and relied upon me doing a lot of research to know how to phrase things and the grounds to challenge. I can completely understand how someone with mental health issues would not be able to do this and would therefore suffer as a result. That’s just not right.

    On the basis that 1.6 million cases are going to be reviewed, it must mean that ALL PIP cases are going to be gone over again, not just those relying on mental health issues. What a debacle. Countless stress (again) for all concerned and the biggest winners will be the companies doing the assessments. I just hope that those in genuine need are taken care of and that our economy is robust enough to take the £4bn hit, on top of everything else currently being thrown at it.


    • #39801 Reply


      Totally, totally, agree with everything you said here. Well written Glos Guy

    • #39821 Reply


      An excellent post. Nowadays we need to be so aware of legalities, rights and how to correctly phrase things. I have just concluded a three year battle with a large company which culminated in court action and success. The downside; about 200+ hours of my time and a lot of stress, plus lots of letter writing and gathering evidence. Many would have given up. It is typical of the 21st century, you need to fight for everything.

    • #39822 Reply


      Unfortunately due to my head injury I cannot fully understand/read your post, however from my limited opinion I agree with you, I see what you see but don’t know how to say it, yes your are 100% right, fortunately I had help to fill in my form so was rewarded 24 for car and 24 for mobility.

      Prior to my accident I had a BS.c and Master Degree and writing this now is a struggle without help.

      Over the years and even today we could all tell incident of fraud.

  • #39813 Reply


    On the flip side, and more to the point, should people with mental health issues be permitted to drive cars?. In the event they are involved in an accident l would imagine there would be all kinds of legal arguments; an absolute minefield. In particular, from the insurance perspective.

    Would not wish the condition on anyone, but if a family member was involved in such an incident, the responsibility would hang heavily in one direction, even before the lawyers got involved. Simply human nature to react that way

    The ultimate aim is for everyone to be safe on the road. Too many people are killed by drink or drugs on the road, the last thing we need is for additional elements to be added to the mix.


    • #39823 Reply


      You are one of the mindless muppets we are up against, my Neurosurgeons, My Doctors etc. after in depth tests say I am safe to drive.

      Have you been checked for epilepsy or your special awareness or reactions ? If not you may be more of a risk than us.

      Just because you have mental health just mean you need just a little more help and understanding.

    • #39831 Reply


      I should not have called you a mindless muppet it was wrong, Over the years I have seen people with mental health problems treated very badly. I once witness a man kick a girl with downs syndrome in the back because she would not move out the way, I humiliated him in front of everyone.

      People with mental health problem just need a bit or care and understanding, the mind is very complicated, one of our uncles and a friend have Alzheimer.

      • #39842 Reply


        Oscarmax, I appreciate the prompt retraction of your initial personal comment in reaction to “Gasmanoo’s” post.

        I would hope that Gasmanoo has had the time to think about his ill informed post, and will realise that Motability has a responsibility to both physically and mentally impaired individuals.

        As has already been pointed out, many recipients of higher level PIP do not drive as they are unable to do so. This is why Motability allow nominated drivers.

        This is an open forum so we have to expect a wide spectrum of thought and opinions. This can and should be beneficial to furthering debate, as long as we remain civil.

        WMC Forum was set up to be the home of friendly and respectful debate.

        Please let’s keep it this way …. Thank you.

  • #39820 Reply


    Motability is not limited to the driver of the car gasman00 do you think that someone who is blind drives there motability car, and in your opinion if someone uses car driving adaptions are they also part of your ” additional elements to be added to the mix” of people who shouldn’t be “permitted to drive cars”?

    Your views are to pardon the pun very short sighted.

  • #39826 Reply


    Complete different question I’ve never asked for pip but I have chronic back pain the mussels in my lower back are mush im now on a waiting list for reactive devise to be inserted to my spine and batterie to to put under the skin of my upper butt😆.i care for my hubby and my back has just got worse.Do I have a right to pip🤔

    • #39828 Reply


      It’s not so much what’s wrong with you, it’s more about how it affects your daily living, all I can suggest is if you think it affects your daily living, apply, the worst they can say is ‘no’.

      • #39829 Reply


        It affects me daily I can’t walk far I sit to chop up food kids help with hoovering and dishes. I use bath lift and stoel. Never thought of it befor as I care for my partner.but been to specialist last week and someone mentioned it to me I said don’t be daft.


        • #39835 Reply


          Hi Jane.. I was like you and never considered DLA/PIP as that was for “Disabled people” It wasn’t till I had my first spine surgery that a hospital spine recovery nurse sat me down and explained that I had a disability… I was brought up like most to believe that disability was only when you had a wheelchair or had an obvious physical health issue, I was so wrong…

          I spent my days like a prisoner, popping opioid medications, sleeping tabs, muscle relaxants etc just to get through my day, in constant pain knowing that it would never get better and praying it would never get worse, so when the spinal nurse and hospital consultant sat me down and told me I have a disability it actually took me a little time to see what they meant but the difference it made to my life was startling, I researched my health issues, joined forums and support groups and sort the help I needed and I can honestly say that out of all of it the motability scheme has been the greatest of all, freedom to go where I need to when I want to and to also return when I have to, the ability to help with daily activities like doing my own shopping etc… I could go on…. If you looked at me you would have no idea of the daily struggle I go through but trust me it’s there  and I am aware that it will never improve and that is why I think the change of view towards long term mental health issues is a welcome change for all those out there that  suffer and don’t have an immediately obvious disability……


          • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  AlanC.
          • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  AlanC.
  • #39838 Reply


    Hi Jane.. I was like you and never considered DLA/PIP as that was for “Disabled people” It wasn’t till I had my first spine surgery that a hospital spine recovery nurse sat me down and explained that I had a disability… I was brought up like most to believe that disability was only when you had a wheelchair or had an obvious physical health issue, I was so wrong… I spent my days like a prisoner, popping opioid medications, sleeping tabs, muscle relaxants etc just to get through my day, in constant pain knowing that it would never get better and praying it would never get worse, so when the spinal nurse and hospital consultant sat me down and told me I have a disability it actually took me a little time to see what they meant but the difference it made to my life was startling, I researched my health issues, joined forums and support groups and sort the help I needed and I can honestly say that out of all of it the motability scheme has been the greatest of all, freedom to go where I need to when I want to and to also return when I have to, the ability to help with daily activities like doing my own shopping etc… I could go on…. If you looked at me you would have no idea of the daily struggle I go through but trust me it’s there  and I am aware that it will never improve and that is why I think the change of view towards long term mental health issues is a welcome change for all those out there that  suffer and don’t have an immediately obvious disability……

  • #39844 Reply

    Joe London

    This is a good move, however with benefits and such,  The government always gives with one hand and takes away with the other. So expect a rapid review of the pip points criteria, making it even harder to qualify. Also with mental health issues a blue badge is not always issued. As councils cherry pick the points system.

  • #39851 Reply


    Hi Jane, just a word of warning, my wife had a neurostimulator fitted for chronic migraine, it has been a disaster, she has had to give up work, with many additional problems . So if it is for your back, ask what percentage it has actually helped, be careful

    • #39870 Reply

      1. Was it the reactive 8 Mac,?
      2. Been told about it read some reviews on it but could not find negatives on it.
  • #39873 Reply


    Hi,  really helpful post.  My wife suffered at the hands of the DWP and their unqualified sub-contractors ATOS when she transferred from DLA to PIP. Quite late on we came across a website called , Benefits and Work, it costs a few pounds to join and is brilliant. We wish we had found it earlier , it would have saved a lot of stress. Anyway we ended up submitting a successful reconsideration with the info from this site.

    Good luck everyone .

    Regards, Wonky

  • #39886 Reply

    JS (justsaying)

    Glad to hear wonky, it’s so warming knowing everyone is contributing and willing to share their experiences, helping others and making this such a friendly forum.

  • #39890 Reply

    Glos Guy

    When compiling my wife’s PIP claim, I used the Disability Rights Handbook (link below) which, although it isn’t an easy read, provides comprehensive information on ALL benefits that may be available to people with any and all types of disability and precisely how to deal with each and every question. It is published annually and is available at a discount to those with disabilities (sadly, they never seem to publish enough and always sell out). I know of several people who used supposed ‘professional advisers’ from Citizens Advice and a particular disability organisation for assistance with their PIP applications and received poor advice, resulting in their claim being unsuccessful. If the nature of your disability means that working through a book like this may be problematic, it would be well worth seeing if a relative or friend would be willing to assist.


  • #39901 Reply


    Hi Jane , I have not heard of that device, so what my wife had fitted and ( taken back out ) is probably different,

    Good luck


  • #40183 Reply


    Well after 25+ years of DLA I’m having the PIP assessment at home in a couple of weeks, don’t know what to expect other then its Capita and a friend had them around last year and she said the lady was nice and just entered some details on a laptop, basically the same questions as on the original application form.

    It will be very clear to them when they see me that I am what I am with the conditions I’ve stated but it still makes me nervous about seeing a stranger and knowing that I was awarded the benefit and now having them say its being stopped but you can apply for another benefit, if I’m eligible I’m eligible.



    • #40186 Reply


      Goldmember, if you don’t subscribe to Benefits and Work, then do it now.  Believe me it’ll be the best £20 you ever spent.  Their online guides and forums are fantastic.  You can ask them any question regarding your PIP assessment and you’ll get honest, straight and helpful answers.

      As Wonky says, they are brilliant, and I can speak from very recent experience, I would have not got PIP, had it not been for the guides and online chat.

  • #40202 Reply


    <p style=”text-align: left;”>I dreaded my pip assessment. I was on low rate DLA for about a year before a combination of physical and mental health conditions combined to make me very ill. I was assessed for pip on the advice of the mental health home care team,and a capita representative came to my home. After many questions and a very painful physical examination, I was eventually, after a few months, awarded high rate mobility and care. I read through the benefits and works pages to help with my claim, and their help was invaluable. Being awarded pip in may last year softened the blow of coming losing my job after finishing 26 weeks of statutory sick pay. As my daily runabout approaches ten years old, it’s good to know I can avail of a brand new vehicle. I’ll be test driving a seat Leon st this week. Not being able to work is horrible but 26 years of hard work, I can use a reliable car to get around 😊</p>

  • #40207 Reply


    Will agree with Goldmember and Markymate, Benefits and Works are worth it, I used them for my forms, their guides are brilliant and go into depth regarding answering questions. Many people get bogged down in what is wrong with them, rather than focusing on how it affects your daily life.

    Good luck with it.

  • #40209 Reply


    Thanks all, I joined B&W earlier and have been reading all afternoon. It looks like I made a good job of my application, so very happy that my wording was similar to their suggestions.

    I’ve given lots of info about my daily struggles and how limited I am doing this and that and just gave a brief description of condition, treatment and medication.

    All should be ok hopefully, Ill keep you posted.


  • #40890 Reply


    Had my 1st time PIP assessment yesterday, was DLA before for 25+ years… just a bit of info for the forum…

    I was assessed at home.

    Assessor arrived on time.

    Was very formal and calm and just got on with it, loads of questions similar to application form.

    Checked the details of my condition and treatments, did not ask for any proof although my conditions are pretty evident.

    Checked my medication, just showed full prescription.

    Checked if I used any aids or adaptations, did not ask to see any.

    Asked only a few questions about the mobility issues I have, didn’t ask me to walk at all.

    Got me to stand and attempt a few exercises  and test grip strength and pinch strength.

    I mentioned what help I get from family/friends but they didn’t ask for contact details, they do NOT contact your GP or any other professional bodies that provide treatment or therapy, they take your word for it and its up to you to supply any additional info that might help.

    So, if you have the type of condition that is easy to see and you need support for daily stuff then I guess you do not need to stress at all and just have the assessment. If you have hard to see or hidden issues, like mental/stress/fatigue etc then you should get as much supporting documentation as possible from the professionals that help/support you then and do not send it with your application, give it to the assessor is my advice. I’m not sure if that’s the best or not, the assessor did say that the DWP want to read a straight forward report and basically go by points scored. I would add though that you need to stress your point on every detail they go through, my assessor didn’t really ask a great deal and if you struggle with something sometimes but are ok sometimes, then say its all the time, if you say its ok sometimes then you will be marked as able.

    Hope that bit of info helps anyone due for assessment, It really wasn’t as daunting as I was expecting and I now just have to wait, all that said, you have no idea what they are typing and scoring, I think from my own issues and the way we spoke about it I will get higher rate for both but the assessor might well be interpreting things differently.

    • #40892 Reply


      Hope you get the result you’re entitled to Goldmember, strange thing these assessments, you never know how the assessor interrupts your answers. Did they say how long till you get your decision?

  • #40893 Reply


    Hi Goldmember…. I agree that the assessment is not as daunting as you’d expect, like you I had a straight forward meeting at home and didn’t feel stressed or under any pressure…..

    I am confused when you say they don’t contact your GP or any medical professionals about your health issues as I was told they do!! When the assessor arrived at my home for the assessment he told me they had received a report from my consultant and that the appointment was not to assess my disability as that had been established but was to see how I cope on a daily basis…. Unless he was fibbing lol…..

    I hope you hear back soon…..

  • #40894 Reply


    damn it, didn’t ask. Ive heard a guy say 9 days and ive heard 6 weeks. Assessor said that he does the follow up report same night and send it off, this was Capita, I guess the switch from DLA might take longer then a new application, but it could be the other way around. I’m guessing that if you score well over the upper rate points requirement the its an auto process.

  • #40895 Reply


    Cheers Alan, That’s what he said but its down to the disability as to whether further investigation is needed, he could have been referring just about my case, I look and sound like Donald Trump and move like a kangaroo with no legs so I’m presuming ill be ok

  • #40915 Reply


    Good luck Goldmember. Having recently gone through the same process, it’s the time between the assessment and getting the decision that’s the worse.  I had to go 40 odd miles for my assessment, and on our way back we were like, did we answer right, oh, we didn’t mention this or that. The assessment itself wasn’t as bad as we’d expected. With the guides from Benefits and work I paid £50 for all my hospital records, and doctors reports, and I’m glad I did, as they never contacted my GP, or hospital consultants.   It took 5 weeks to get the decision, and I can tell you, me and the wife sat staring at that bloody brown envelope for over an hour!!!     But the relief was overwhelming.

    I really hope you get the decision you deserve.

  • #40972 Reply


    Nice one Markymate

  • #40973 Reply


    Just had this emailed, bit of a read but it applies to us all…….

    In this newsletter we pass on the DWP’s reassurance that no-one will be worse off and there will be no face-to-face medicals as a result of 1.6 million PIP reassessments.
    We discover that Capita have slashed the percentage of PIP cases they try to get additional medical evidence for, from 69% down to a tiny 2%.
    And we wonder whether a struggling Capita will have to stop doing PIP assessments altogether.
    We look at the bizarre world of PIP and ESA medicals, as revealed by the Work and Pensions committee. It features assessors who can see right through your shoes and who know just how far you can walk an imaginary dog.
    We highlight the tiny take-up of the loan that is replacing support for mortgage interest.
    And finally, we reveal that the DWP may well be quaking in its boots as it faces another potentially disastrous court case brought by another courageous claimant.

    It depends on how much you trust the DWP to keep their word.
    But Minister for disabled people, Sarah Newton, told MPs earlier this month that:
    “Nobody is going to be called in for a face-to-face assessment, and nobody is going to have money taken away from them.”
    as a result of the checks being carried out on 1.6 million PIP claims highlighted in our last newsletter.
    Aside from that, however, there is still very little clarity about who is going to be checked, how and when the checks will be carried out or whether people will be told when they have been checked.

    Disability News Service has obtained documents which they say show that Capita has hugely slashed the proportion of PIP cases in which it sends for additional medical evidence, from 69% in January 2016 to just 1.8% in June 2016.
    Further figures given by DWP minister Sarah Newton suggest this proportion may have fallen even lower in 2017.
    Atos (now known as IAS) asked for further evidence in only 5-6% of cases in January to July of 2016, but this had risen to 13% by December 2016, according to DNS.
    Additional medical evidence – provided by GPs, consultants, mental health nurses and other health professionals – can make a huge difference to whether a claim succeeds or not. When PIP was introduced, the DWP expected further evidence to be sent for in about 50% of PIP claims.
    But collecting further medical evidence slows down the process of assessing PIP claims and costs money.
    Capita has offered no explanation for the dramatic reduction in further evidence requests.
    Meanwhile, here at Benefits and Work we continue to stress the importance of collecting further medical evidence yourself if you possibly can – although we do know how difficult that can be.

    Capita’s share price plummeted 40% at the end of last month after it announced that its profits were going to be much lower than expected and warned that no dividends would be paid. Comparisons were immediately made with the collapse of government outsourcing firm Carillion.
    Capita chief executive Jonathan Lewis stated:
    “We are now too widely spread across multiple markets and services, making it more challenging to maintain a competitive advantage in every business and to deliver world-class services to our clients every time.
    For claimants, the question now will be whether Capita counts PIP assessments as a profitable and core part of its business, or whether it will seek to walk away from the contract.

    The House of Commons Work and Pensions committee paid tribute to the “efforts and bravery” of almost 4,000 claimants in sending them “honest and often distressing accounts” of their PIP and ESA assessments.
    They included the assessor who could see that the claimant had full movement of their toes – even though the claimant was wearing leather winter boots at the time.
    Another assessor equipped with equally impressive x-ray vision managed to observe a claimant carrying out a full page of exercises. This was despite that fact that the claimant never removed their winter coat or got out of their wheelchair for the entire assessment.
    A particularly imaginative assessor was able to record that the claimant walked their dog daily, even though the claimant could barely walk and didn’t own a dog.
    And one health professional, keen to take an accurate history, asked a claimant when they had first caught Down’s syndrome.
    Another admitted a lack of knowledge about a claimant’s condition, but told the claimant not to worry as they would Google it later.
    The DWP’s response to this damning report was predictably arrogant and dismissive. They said that it was “disappointing that this report uses a number of anonymous claims that we are unable to investigate”. And added that the vast majority of claimants are “happy with their overall experience.”

    Fewer than 7,000 people out of 124,000 affected claimants have signed up for the loan scheme which replaces support for mortgage interest (SMI) in April of this year. Some still do not know that it is happening.
    In 2015, the government announced that as a cost cutting measure, from April 2018 SMI would be replaced by a loan which would have to be repaid by the claimant when their home is sold.
    The new scheme is voluntary, claimants do not have to sign up for it. But, if they do not, the interest on their mortgage will not be paid and they will have to find other means to pay or risk losing their home.
    Yet the DWP admitted last week that not all affected claimants had yet received a letter telling them about the change.

    Following its dramatic defeat at the end of last year in the claimant led court case relating to PIP and mental health, the DWP is now facing another court challenge in relation to universal credit.
    A terminally ill claimant, known only as TP, was forced to claim UC after moving house on medical advice, in order to receive treatment.
    As a result of moving to UC, which does not include Severe Disability Premium (SDP) and Enhanced Disability Premium (EDP), the claimant is £178 a month worse off.
    He has now been given leave to judicially review the decision to effectively punish him for moving house.
    The DWP have argued that there is transitional protection to ensure that claimants do not lose out as a result of moving on to UC if their circumstances remain the same.
    However, what they do not make clear is that this protection will only be available to existing claimants who are part of the mass ‘managed migration’ onto UC beginning in July 2019.
    Anyone who is forced to claim UC because they live in, or move to, a UC full service area and have a change of circumstances will not receive any transitional protection.
    We wish TP every success in a case they should never have been forced to bring.

  • #40976 Reply


    Good old Benefits and Work.  The assessors reports are just to awful for words, they want to make you laugh, and cry at the same time.  It’s about time those concerned should be named and shamed.

  • #40978 Reply


    Or better still, sue them through the courts for all the stress and hardship they cause!

  • #40979 Reply


    Thanks for posting Goldmember, I’m sure DWP love stories like this coming to the forefront to scare, intimidate, and to put off people from applying for esa or pip. I’m sure those who reported these claims would have been more than happy to disclose their reports for investigation, i know i would have. But the DWP would never ask for this, as i say they prefer the ‘fear factor’ reducing the number of claimants.

    In regards to the loan, how is it acceptable that they decide on the this change back in 2015, yet haven’t had time to write to inform those affected? Crazy

    Reading on with the court case, i am truly thankful there are some very strong willed and informed people who are prepared to fight what is right, not only for their situations, but for the others who are not so informed. Just like the recent case for mental health and mobility pip, people can challenge for what they believe is right and in turn give a more positive outlook to millions of others… amazing people they are. Good luck to TP.

    Capita looks to be in trouble, i didn’t now Atos had changed its name to IAS and the staff reviews make for some alarming reading https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Independent-Assessment-Services-(formerly-Atos-Healthcare)/reviews

    Thanks again for posting Goldmember

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