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So, looking at a coupe of cars for next month, Mazda CX-5 Exclusive Line and Ford Kuga ST Edition.
Kuga FHEV reports say around 45-50mpg average so pretty decent.
Kuga PHEV (and this is what I don’t understand)
Ford say 3 to 3.5Hrs to charge on a 7kW supply, so that’s 24.5kWh, now I may be missing something but with my current supplier (Octopus) it would cost me about £8 to charge it fully @ 32p/hr. So apart from having to pay for a wall charger and get somewhere to park it would still cost me £8 for a range of 28-41miles.
What’s the point of it? if the FHEV does average 50mpg then it would only cost about £6 for the 41 mile range?
The Mazda is now MHEV but there’s no new reports on the 2023 model showing real world mpg, all the reviews are for the previous 2022 model. Given the difference in the current AP’s the Kuga FHEV would cost me £1,000 more than the Mazda but only save me about £600 in petrol over the 3 years (16,000 miles). The PHEV is a whopping £2,700 more!.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
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So, had a bit more looking about and the kuga has a 14.4kW battery so that would drop the price to about £4 a charge (Ford website says £2.45!) but still nowhere near offsetting the extra £2,700 AP
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
I think the PHEV is a non-starter, I’d have to use public chargers as my housing association won’t let me make a parking area outside the house (I have 2 garden plots that are gravelled over).
Looking at the FHEV route fuel costs at 45-50mpg would be £600 to £800 cheaper over the 3 years but the AP is £800 to £1,000 more than the Mazda.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
I came to the same conclusion as you, so if you are missing something then you aren’t alone!
My experience with the XC40 PHEV is this. I did some experiments recently to see if petrol or electricity was cheaper. I do local running about most days, 2 to 5 miles at a time cumulatively about 10 to 25 miles a day, in normal urban traffic on the battery. I tried using the engine only on these journeys and was surprised to find I was only getting 24-28 mpg. I calculated I needed to do 42mpg for petrol to be better. Open road driving on petrol gets me 44 to 48mpg.
So on local journeys I run on battery at about half the price of petrol, on long journeys I now save the battery for the slower ends of the journey and do the main road/ motorway stuff on petrol alone.
Thanks for the input 🙂
I think this time round I’ll stick with the old fossil fuel or maybe the FHEV if I hang on until the new Kuga comes out in August(ish).
Just having to have a good look at how things stand with me and sort some life style things out.
It’s been almost 3 years since my crash, only got to see a neurologist last month and the cardiologist this month. Neither results were what I was expecting. Neurologist says I have a clot in my cerebellum caused by a stroke sometime during of after the crash or in the 3-4 months it took them to realise I stil had the af and put me on blood thinners.
He reckons that’s what is causing my balance and coordination issues. Cardiologist tells me I have to go on beta blockers as my heart is running at 189bpm during the day. That was about 10 days ago and still not been given any meds.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
It all depends on what types of journeys are your normal daily use?
the thing about PHEVs is the ability to carry out small journeys on battery only and longer ones on petrol/battery. Don’t forget the Kuga can charge your battery from the petrol engine also, plus some regen braking, so if you don’t have a home wall box and cheap ev tariff, you can charge at public chargers as top ups. The use of battery power is to not run them down to 0, but keep charging
Even if you have a cheap home tariff, you have to drive an awful lot of miles to be recouping the AP over three years. If you compare the difference between eggs and eggs, or rather, Tucson and Tucson, or Countryman and Countryman etc, there is £2000+ you have to claw back in fuel savings.
Car I just sold (Corolla 2.0 hybrid) was doing 44mpg with heavy-footed driving. At 6000 miles/year that’s around £1000/year in petrol. Don’t think I’d make the £2000 back if I ran solidly on electric at the cheapest possible rate. If I can be bothered later I’ll do the maths at 10p/kWh and see how many miles I’d need to be doing to make it worth it. But when I last worked it out (before the energy hikes, so it’ll be much worse now), it wasn’t worth the extra £90/month PCP.
So, looking at a coupe of cars for next month, Mazda CX-5 Exclusive Line and Ford Kuga ST Edition. Kuga FHEV reports say around 45-50mpg average so pretty decent. Kuga PHEV (and this is what I don’t understand) Ford say 3 to 3.5Hrs to charge on a 7kW supply, so that’s 24.5kWh, now I may be missing something but with my current supplier (Octopus) it would cost me about £8 to charge it fully @ 32p/hr. So apart from having to pay for a wall charger and get somewhere to park it would still cost me £8 for a range of 28-41miles. What’s the point of it? if the FHEV does average 50mpg then it would only cost about £6 for the 41 mile range? The Mazda is now MHEV but there’s no new reports on the 2023 model showing real world mpg, all the reviews are for the previous 2022 model. Given the difference in the current AP’s the Kuga FHEV would cost me £1,000 more than the Mazda but only save me about £600 in petrol over the 3 years (16,000 miles). The PHEV is a whopping £2,700 more!.
is that a total charge? As in a full battery? That only costs £8?
is that a total charge? As in a full battery? That only costs £8?
That’s what it says on the Ford website, 6 to 6.5hrs on a 13A socket or 3 to 3.5hrs on a 7kW wall box.
As the battery only has a capacity of 14.4kW it must charge at a high rate initially then drop to a trickle for the rest of the time. Ford reckon £2.45 for a charge.
I do about 5,300 miles a year, mainly local trips under 20 miles but with an AP of £4,945 and even if I had a home charging point I’d never get the money back.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
My XC40 with a nominal 10.7kWh battery cost a measured £3.25 at current rates for a full charge, worth between 20 and 27 miles.
The beauty of the e Power system with NIssan is that you get an authentic EV driving experience ie quick 0-62 in under 8 seconds, the immediate response tends to make it seem to be even quicker, quiet, no gears , and the car is driven via an electric motor, that is powered by a battery just like any other Electric vehicle , but rather than plug it in, it is charged by a smallish petrol engine , which is not connected to the car’s drive’ .
The battery is smaller than others, but for short urban journeys running at 20-30 mph In traffic, tends to be adequate, running mainly on battery, with the engine cutting in occasionally to top up the battery.
So no plug in and petrol only to charge the battery, and over 50 mpg.
It is a good alternative to PHEV, mhev , Vehicles .
It’s a good option for some but not for me unfortunately. Over priced at £3200 for a Tekna trim level and I’m not sure I can get into it, I tried a Rogue when we over in the US at Xmas, couldn’t get in!. The Mazda CX-5 Exclusive Line is £1,000 cheaper and a much higher standard of fit and finish as well as kit.
Good job everyones tastes are different 🙂
Went and had a look at the CX-5, Hundai Tucson and the newer Ateca (same dealer/showrooms). Tucson is out due to poor mpg around the doors and a possible PPF problem, Ateca would have to be a step down in trim lever to an Xperience as the Lux still has the awful Bridgestone 19″ tyres like mine. The Xperience is only £1249 but loses the heated seats and electric boot, both of which I find very useful.
The Mazda is very nice, sun roof so deespite being about 6cm taller then my Ateca has less headroom without the seat being fully lowered. Getting in seemed harder, I think the windscreen is at a lower agle than the Ateca, doesn’t leave as much of the “flat” area on the door opening. Manageable I’m sure though, I think I felt the same about the Ateca when I first tried it coming from a Yeti!!.
Other option is a Ford Kuga, ST Line is £1745 but as there’s a new version due out in August I think I’d prefer to see the new one first.
So, order time for Mazda would be 3-4 months on the Exclusive Line as they’re all factory order, adding the driver assistance pack would have made it factory only as well. Ateca would be 4-6 months but may be longer.
Not really much further forward! Will have to see what the new AP’s are anyway as I can’t order until April 13th.
Thanks for all the input 🙂
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
I have nearly 3 years of accurate data.
A typical PHEV Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV at current energy cost 34 pence = 13.5 pence mile, a Ford Kuga PHEV 12.5 pence miles, because our off peak Octopus Flux rate 20.24 pence our Outlander cost 11.5 pence a mile.
A petrol Hybrid at 45 mpg = 15.5 pence a mile, obviously a Hybrid like Mikes at 50 mpg slightly less, over a 3 year lease 7,000 miles a year a 45mpg Hybrid only cost £800/900 of the 3 year lease, however the cost of a EV charger £1,000 and the high AP a PHEV financial no longer makes sense.
Because we can charge up at home off peak have solar panels and battery our cost are reasonably low, would I have another PHEV on the scheme not at these high AP’s I would definitely go for a hybrid.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
I would certainly have another plug in hybrid, but not on the scheme at current prices. The smooth quiet refined way the XC40 goes about its business locally – where we spend most of our time – will be hard to give up. The Nissan e-power system might be an option though.
If I did not tow I would change to a Hyundia Kona EV at 20.24 pence a kWh = just over 5 pence a mile or £1,062.60 over 3 years
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Yeah the Kona EV is awesome balance of affordability; sadly won’t do for a family of 5. Believe me, when they came back on the scheme a couple days ago I tried to convince myself!
I’m currently investigating plug in hybrids and so far the Kuga is by far the best.
Firstly those mentioning an EV tariff for charging. Be very careful. I did the maths and the cheapest tariff on octopus 10p/41p would actually cost me more than staying on my all round 31p I’m already on if I bought a PHEV or EV.
The only way an EV tariff would work for me is if I ran dishwasher etc during the night and that just isn’t viable.
The Kuga has a 14.4kw battery. The Kuga petrol engine also runs on the Atkinson cycle which means is more economical that a normal engine of the same size.
I’ve watched several test vids on YouTube. “Ecodriver” drove the Kuga starting with a flat battery over a mixed journey of 80 kilometres and achieved a fuel consumption of 74mpg and the car created enough of its own electric to power nearly 2 thirds of his journey.
He then does a range test driving only on electric and gets a fair bit further than Fords stated range .
Matt from Carwow tests the car and makes no attempt to drive in an economical matter and gets a dash states 64mpg.
My current diesel Allspace barely gets 40mpg.
The only other thing to consider is that although the Kuga can be plugged into a 7kw charger its limited to taking 3.7kw maximum rate for charging so won’t be using the 7kw.
Thanks for the info, unfortunately the £4,945 AP means it’s well out of my price range! Add the cost of a home charger (if I had anywhere to park) and it would never save me enough to recoup the cost.
I may hang on until August as the new Kuga is due out and have another look at the FHEV, but again at £3,295 I don’t think the extra AP would be make it any cheaper to run over the 3 years than my other options.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
I’m currently investigating plug in hybrids and so far the Kuga is by far the best. Firstly those mentioning an EV tariff for charging. Be very careful. I did the maths and the cheapest tariff on octopus 10p/41p would actually cost me more than staying on my all round 31p I’m already on if I bought a PHEV or EV. The only way an EV tariff would work for me is if I ran dishwasher etc during the night and that just isn’t viable. The Kuga has a 14.4kw battery. The Kuga petrol engine also runs on the Atkinson cycle which means is more economical that a normal engine of the same size. I’ve watched several test vids on YouTube. “Ecodriver” drove the Kuga starting with a flat battery over a mixed journey of 80 kilometres and achieved a fuel consumption of 74mpg and the car created enough of its own electric to power nearly 2 thirds of his journey. He then does a range test driving only on electric and gets a fair bit further than Fords stated range . Matt from Carwow tests the car and makes no attempt to drive in an economical matter and gets a dash states 64mpg. My current diesel Allspace barely gets 40mpg.
I would be careful of those Youtube video, it quite easy to manipulates the figures, I recorded coming back from Birmingham a journey of 38 miles over starting with a full charge 120.5mpg, a more accurate figure would be an average over a week, month or when you fill up is and taking into account an allowance for you energy use.
On the plus side several UK road test have recorded just over 52mpg on mixed driving condition on a flat battery using just the ICE unit, but remember it now becomes a hybrid not a pure petrol engine which distort the figures.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Thanks for the info, unfortunately the £4,945 AP means it’s well out of my price range! Add the cost of a home charger (if I had anywhere to park) and it would never save me enough to recoup the cost. I may hang on until August as the new Kuga is due out and have another look at the FHEV, but again at £3,295 I don’t think the extra AP would be make it any cheaper to run over the 3 years than my other options.
Don’t rule out the Passat Estate 2 litre diesel auto plenty of space and excellent mpg
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Unfortunately I’d never get into it! I’m struggling now with the Ateca at 1.61m and found the CX-5 a bit difficult at 1.67m due to the door shape. The Passat is only 1.51m so a non-starter I’m afraid.
I did a rough calculation between the Mazda at 36mpg and the Kuga FHEV at 50mpg, rough guesstimate doing mainly shorter journeys. Over the 3 years, including the AP and fuel, the Mazda would cost me £5,365 and the Kuga £5,595 so not a lot in it.
Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!
Yea I’ve quoted a couple as example but I’ve pretty much exhausted all reviews I can find and can’t see a downside for a PHEV for me.
The fhev on the other hand is just pointless
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