PCN for parking in a disabled bay without the clock

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    Topic
  • #315609
    kdwolf
    Participant

      Last Thursday I parked in a disabled bay with time restriction of 3 hours, which I didn’t notice. I displayed the Blue Badge, but not the clock, hence got the PCN.

      Dr Google came to my help and provided with this link. So it was a matter of time for me to write the letter and off it went. Yesterday I received an email the PCN has been cancelled. Below is the draft for someone, who may need it in the future:

      Dear Sir or Madam,

      I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle, which was parked in a designated disabled bay. The Blue Badge was clearly and correctly displayed; however, the accompanying time clock was not placed on the dashboard.

      1. Display of Blue Badge

      The Blue Badge was fully visible and valid at the time of parking, confirming that the vehicle was lawfully entitled to use the disabled bay. The clock disc is ONLY RECOMMENDED when parking in bays subject to a maximum stay, such as the three-hour limit noted on the sign. However, it is important to clarify that the obligation to display the time clock is not a statutory requirement under the primary legislation governing the Blue Badge Scheme — The Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) Regulations 2000 (as amended).

      The regulations require that the badge itself be displayed clearly to indicate entitlement. The Blue Badge Scheme: Rights and Responsibilities in England (Department for Transport guidance) mentions the use of a clock as a practical aid to demonstrate arrival time, but this is guidance only and not a mandatory legal condition of use. The omission of the clock therefore does not in itself constitute a breach of the Traffic Regulation Order (TRO), unless that specific requirement is lawfully incorporated into the Order and clearly communicated via authorised signage (see paragraph 2 below).

      2. Signage Requirements and Legal Compliance

      The disabled bay in question carries a sign limiting parking to three hours. If the Council intends to impose such a time restriction, the signage must comply with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD). Any deviation from the prescribed sign design (Diagram 661A or its permitted variants) requires specific authorisation from the Secretary of State for Transport under Section 64 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

      Should the Council wish to amend or replace the signage to include a time restriction or clock requirement, it must:

      Submit a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) specifying the new conditions and undertake a public consultation under the Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.
      Apply for authorisation from the Department for Transport if the proposed sign does not conform exactly to the TSRGD diagrams.
      Install the authorised sign and update the corresponding enforcement documentation before any new restriction can be legally enforced.
      Without such a process, the existing sign cannot create a binding legal duty to display a clock disc.

      3. Relevant Case References

      This position is supported by precedent, including the following cases:

      William Watson v St Helens Metropolitan Borough Council (SZ00006-2002, 11 March 2020)
      ·         Michelle Dhillon v Leicester City Council (LE00087-1812, 30 January 2019)

      These cases demonstrate that tribunals and relevant authorities have recognised that failure to display the clock disc, whilst the Blue Badge is properly shown, does not necessarily constitute a breach warranting penalty.

      I therefore request that Gloucestershire County Council cancel the PCN, in line with both statutory interpretation and the precedents outlined above.

       

       

      Sent from a mobile device.
      Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.

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    • #315615
      Glos Guy
      Participant

        Well done you! That’s a brilliantly worded appeal and I’m not at all surprised that your PCN was overturned. It reminds me of an appeal that I made some years ago where it ran to 3 pages of A4 quoting various legal aspects. I think they just gave up the will to live half way through, raised a white flag, and it was also cancelled 😂

        I must confess that I am in the habit of using the clock every single time that we park using the blue badge, whether there is a time limit or not. Easy to do as it’s attached to the badge in the supplied plastic folder.

        #315617
        cherie
        Participant

          Thank you for this. Have kept it in case I ever need it. It’s useful to know
          Plastic folder? I have had Blue badge (and previously Orange badge) for a long time. Two different councils over the years haven’t ever issued a free plastic wallet to put them in!
          But still very grateful to have the badges -Only 3 parking fines in the past which were paid (despite appeal letters) because of forgetting to display badge or when I didn’t read road markings properly. However I had one last year where I had used the clock and overstayed by accident. If I hadn’t used the clock then I probably wouldn’t have had a fine as the traffic wardens didn’t patrol early in the morning!

          #315618
          kdwolf
          Participant

            Well done you! That’s a brilliantly worded appeal and I’m not at all surprised that your PCN was overturned. It reminds me of an appeal that I made some years ago where it ran to 3 pages of A4 quoting various legal aspects. I think they just gave up the will to live half way through, raised a white flag, and it was also cancelled 😂 I must confess that I am in the habit of using the clock every single time that we park using the blue badge, whether there is a time limit or not. Easy to do as it’s attached to the badge in the supplied plastic folder.

            Ah. Yes. I had a beautiful,  colourful, made of cloth once. But then I left the car with Meet & Greet guys and the whole badge with the clock and the cloth gone. 🙄

            Sent from a mobile device.
            Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.

            Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 (unhappy customer - Ombudsman pending)
            Motability Mazda CX-60 PHEV July 2023 (unhappy customer - early termination on mechanical grounds)
            Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019 (happy customer)

            #315620
            kdwolf
            Participant

              Thank you for this. Have kept it in case I ever need it. It’s useful to know Plastic folder? I have had Blue badge (and previously Orange badge) for a long time. Two different councils over the years haven’t ever issued a free plastic wallet to put them in! But still very grateful to have the badges -Only 3 parking fines in the past which were paid (despite appeal letters) because of forgetting to display badge or when I didn’t read road markings properly. However I had one last year where I had used the clock and overstayed by accident. If I hadn’t used the clock then I probably wouldn’t have had a fine as the traffic wardens didn’t patrol early in the morning!

              I always appeal.  Even took the council to the Tribunal.  They don’t bother to respond to the tribunal at all, so got cases in my favour.

              Sent from a mobile device.
              Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.

              Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 (unhappy customer - Ombudsman pending)
              Motability Mazda CX-60 PHEV July 2023 (unhappy customer - early termination on mechanical grounds)
              Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019 (happy customer)

              #315623
              Phaedra
              Participant

                Ah. Yes. I had a beautiful, colourful, made of cloth once. But then I left the car with Meet & Greet guys and the whole badge with the clock and the cloth gone. 🙄

                Same thing happened to me at Newcastle Airport 🙁

                Off there again on Sunday and not leaving it in the car this time!

                Please excuse spelling/typos. Apart from being a clot it turns out I had one on my cerebellum that's now causing various problems!

                #315630
                joss
                Moderator

                  A very good post @kdwolf, One that our members will find very useful if similar circumstance.

                  Joss
                  Current car: BMW X2 sDrive 20i M Sport 5dr Step Auto In metallic Portimão Blue. 04:10:2025
                  Previous car:Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.

                  #315632
                  Glos Guy
                  Participant

                    @cherie The plastic folder I was referring to is actually the time clock. One half is the clock and the other half a slot for the blue badge, hence why I can’t ever forget the clock as it’s attached. I assumed that this was a national thing, but might just be my local authority (photos below). You can buy similar very cheaply (certainly a fraction of the cost of a PCN) 😉

                     

                    #315633
                    cherie
                    Participant

                      Folder: thanks for the reminder. I was issued with that one once! I had forgotten. The fold cracked and so I used them separately. Then the clock outer edge one fell apart. The new ones just come with a square clock separate from the badge. I will look for a holder. Thanks.

                      #315634
                      kezo
                      Participant

                        @Glos-Guy that is what my daughter has. My mum on the otherhand has a badge holder and seperate clock, which she has combined in a cheapo ebay case.

                        #315805
                        Avatar photoBandit
                        Participant

                          For clarification, if the sign says 3 hours (as in this case) and a warden records (probably photo) your car and then again, in the same spot, over 3 hours later, it would then be enforceable, yes?

                          #315820
                          kdwolf
                          Participant

                            For clarification, if the sign says 3 hours (as in this case) and a warden records (probably photo) your car and then again, in the same spot, over 3 hours later, it would then be enforceable, yes?

                            Yes, as there is a time limit, yet the clock is not mandatory. There is a different question if a disabled person set the clock at a wrong time. I didn’t come across any case on this topic. Would be interesting to see one.

                            Sent from a mobile device.
                            Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.

                            Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 (unhappy customer - Ombudsman pending)
                            Motability Mazda CX-60 PHEV July 2023 (unhappy customer - early termination on mechanical grounds)
                            Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019 (happy customer)

                            #315822
                            Rhodgie
                            Participant

                              @kdwolf  well done, excellent result 👏  in Scotland we don’t use the clock so whenever I go south I’m very guilty of forgetting to put it up 🫣 😂

                              #315828
                              kdwolf
                              Participant

                                @kdwolf well done, excellent result 👏 in Scotland we don’t use the clock so whenever I go south I’m very guilty of forgetting to put it up 🫣 😂

                                I didn’t know that.

                                Next time at Aberdeen I will NOT put it up then!

                                Sent from a mobile device.
                                Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.

                                Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 (unhappy customer - Ombudsman pending)
                                Motability Mazda CX-60 PHEV July 2023 (unhappy customer - early termination on mechanical grounds)
                                Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019 (happy customer)

                                #315854
                                Avatar photoTillyman
                                Participant

                                  A few years ago i got a ticket for having my badge in the wrong way – i had taken it out to show at bridge when crossing into Wales – my wife put it back in for me as i was then driving  – next time i used it back home i didnt notice it was the wrong way around ie showing my mug shot  – i explained the position and they let me off – so on that occasion common sense applied.

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