Paying advanced payment in advance

This topic contains 19 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Smoggy 1 week, 1 day ago.

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #72717 Reply

    greenturnips

    Hi

     

    Ive just received a request for my AP to be paid by the dealer.  I am not expecting delivery until the beginning of April.

    I questioned this and they said they can’t register the car until ive made the payment, which in near on 2k.

    I find this unusual.

    Anyone else done the same?

Viewing 19 replies - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #72719 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Welcome green-turnips

    dealers are allowed to ask for a deposit but it has to be just that a deposit and clearly set out with any conditions. There are a few discussions on this on the forum which may put your mind at rest, this one maybe of interest.

    https://forum.whichmobilitycar.co.uk/forums/topic/deposit-at-vw/

    #72722 Reply

    Dragonfly

    We’ve always paid our AP on the day we pick up the car, if you’ve ordered extras then it would be reasonable for the dealer to ask for a deposit prior to you picking up the car.

    If the request from the dealer is specifically asking you to pay the AP before you pick the car up, and you have no extras,  I would give mobility a call.

    #72723 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    As dragonfly has said call Motability if they are asking for the AP in advance. The following is official wording from Motability in answering the scenario

    Can I take a deposit from the customer?
    We neither encourage or discourage dealers to hold deposits for Scheme Customers. Requesting a deposit from a customer to secure a vehicle order is normal practice within the dealer network and commonly applied to retail transactions. Therefore it is not unreasonable to apply this practice to Scheme customers. However, it must be clearly understood that a holding deposit is not an advance payment. An advance payment should not be taken as a deposit.

    #72724 Reply

    Russell

    I have paid for extras up front to my dealer once, but not the full amount I got around £700 (excluding the AP)  worth of extras last time and I was requested to pay at least £500 which I did. but I would of walked away if the full amount including the AP was requested.

    #72725 Reply

    Mike
    Participant

    As dragonfly has said call Motability if they are asking for the AP in advance. The following is official wording from Motability in answering the scenario

    Can I take a deposit from the customer? We neither encourage or discourage dealers to hold deposits for Scheme Customers. Requesting a deposit from a customer to secure a vehicle order is normal practice within the dealer network and commonly applied to retail transactions. Therefore it is not unreasonable to apply this practice to Scheme customers. However, it must be clearly understood that a holding deposit is not an advance payment. An advance payment should not be taken as a deposit.

     

    Have you got the origin for the above please JS?.

    I cannot find it on the Motability website. All I can find is:

    ”If your car has an Advance Payment it will need to be paid in full to your dealer either before or on the day you collect your new car. In some cases, according to individual dealership policies, your dealer may ask for a deposit to be paid when you are ordering your new car. Any deposit paid will be deducted from the Advance Payment you need to pay when collecting your car”.

    Direct quote from the ‘Advance Payments’ part of:
    https://www.motability.co.uk/cars-scooters-and-powerchairs/ordering-your-car/

    Which is at quite at odds with your quote over the actual status of the monies paid in advance of collecting the car. I.e. When is a deposit not a deposit nor Advance Payment?

    It could be very important as your quote implies it is a deposit not forming part (or all of) the Advance Payment. Thus, if one has paid this to a dealer and the dealer goes into Administration (or even liquidation) prior to delivery of the vehicle to the customer, there is every chance this money would not be recoverable from Motability as it is not forming part of an Advance Payment (ie the money is not actually Motability’s money at this stage, not until such time as it becomes the Advance Payment on car handover).

    Your ‘Motability Quote’ really needs to be challenged and put into context with the one I quoted above (and gave the origin) else potentially vulnerable customers could stand to lose their ‘deposit’ in a worst case scenario.

    Mike

    #72737 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Your.right Mike deposits do have nothing to do with Motability it’s a contract between the dealership and the customer hence it has to be clearly set out and in some cases a deposit is none returnable if cancelled and again this is nothing to do with Motability. Unfortunately I’m  not allowed link the origin however I can confirm it is the official internal statement , I don’t think the two statement contradicts each other but do confirm that a dealership is entitled to ask for a Deposit if they so wish as long as the terms are clearly set out.

    #72738 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    One thing I would say paying the AP in advance is to make sure the car is what you ordered before you enter your PIN on collection day.

    I say this because it’s how it helped my dealer in having me over when he asked me to go in and pay the AP the day before I collected and thought it odd at the time.

    So how did that help him to have me over, well the car turned out to be a MY18 model and not the MY19 model I’d been promised.

    As the different between the two are under the hood but important to me being a disabled driver I did not start to see things were a mist until after inputting the PIN and I was driving out of the showroom and even weeks later I come across things that the 19 has that the 18 doesn’t so if their looking for the AP in advance there could be something a miss.

    Either that or the dealership is on the verge of bankruptcy and need the money pronto. 😀

    #72742 Reply

    Mike
    Participant

    Your.right Mike deposits do have nothing to do with Motability it’s a contract between the dealership and the customer hence it has to be clearly set out and in some cases a deposit is none returnable if cancelled and again this is nothing to do with Motability. Unfortunately I’m not allowed link the origin however I can confirm it is the official internal statement , I don’t think the two statement contradicts each other but do confirm that a dealership is entitled to ask for a Deposit if they so wish as long as the terms are clearly set out.

    Hello again JS.

    I agree what you say, that ‘a deposit’ is solely a matter between the dealer and customer and is nothing at all to do with Motability (your quoted statement qualifies this – basically Motability have absolved themselves from all responsibility) nor does it form part of any Advance Payment due. The problem is that Motability’s customer website, which I quoted above, does not say this, or indeed make any reference to, a deposit being at risk should the dealer go into administration (or worse) between the time of payment and the actual day of delivery. Not does it clearly say that a ‘deposit’ is not part of an advance payment.

    With the current depressed state of the UK car sales market it is not inconceivable that one or more dealers could topple at any time. Remember not all disabled people have credit cards to pay the deposit and get S75 cover. Some don’t even have debit cards and would pay the deposit in cash.

    The average disabled customer (not those on this forum) would probably just pay a deposit thinking their money forms part of the AP, because the dealer asked for it and on the Motability customer website it says this can happen. Hence to this customer it looks as if Motability are ‘involved’.

    Your ‘Official Internal Statement’ does clearly explain the situation, quite starkly. However if it is not brought to the attention of the disabled motoring public (who don’t all read this forum), how are they to know? Hence it really does need to be made public, including its origin. Anything less looks rather like collusion.

    How would the forum look, if the next poster is brand new to this forum and says ‘I read on the Motability website a dealer can ask for a deposit, so I paid one. Now the dealer has suddenly ceased trading and gone into liquidation’. Motability say it is nothing to do with them. Help?

    Mike

    #72752 Reply

    Js (just saying)

    This is why everything that is binding has a terms of contract. If a dealership does not give Joe public a full set of terms to the customer then they are and users of the forum have successfully be given the deposit back after cancellation. And again you are right there is no safeguard if a dealership was to go into receivership. But nor is there in retail. And let’s not overthink things, let’s just say a friendly dealer asked the question and that’s the reply he got from Motability. 😉

     

    #72753 Reply

    greenturnips

    Spoke to Motability, they advised not to pay the AP until the day, I relayed this to the dealer and they have relented.

    #72754 Reply

    fwipperie
    Participant

    Always pay a deposit on credit card if possible, or part then you have protection under the Consumer credit  act if the retailer goes bust.

    #72757 Reply

    Dragonfly

    @Greenturnips

    Glad you got that sorted ether the request for the prior payment of the AP, by the dealer is

    1. An error

    2. An attempt to assist the dealers cash flow.

    #72764 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Ok in circles we go and this comes up a lot and Everyone is correct in there advice. But can I please just state a Deposit is nothing to do with the AP, No Dealership can take a payment which is anything to do with Motability. (Except the AP) A Dealership can ask for a Deposit under there own terms and conditions, including full payment of any extras (again nothing to do with Motability). Upon change over naturally they will deduct any Deposit from your final invoice. ANY PAYMENT IN ADVANCE OF THE ENTERING OF YOUR PIN IS A CONTRACT BETWEEN THE DEALERSHIP AND YOURSELF. Once challenged the dealers unless willing to give full disclosure of terms of conditions of such Deposits will then adhere to Motability rules,

    without wanting to sound rude or obnoxious as many of us have come across fantastic dealers and dealerships, but some dealerships simply are on the  scheme to add value to sales, the rules set out to be classed as a Motability Specialist is nothing more than an attendance course. To be clear NO dealership can take any payment towards the AP! Any payment made is a for extras (nothing to do with Motability) or a DEPOSIT under that dealerships own terms and conditions.

    On a positive note although Motability have suggested dealerships don’t do discounts or cash back. Some dealers do (but wrongly state x amount off the AP) again the discount has nothing to do with the AP and Motability still receive the full Set AP,  basically if you really want to safe guard yourself say you’ve been advised not to pay a deposit and you will pay in full upon entering your Pin, any dealership not accommodating this will either state company policy (in which case  will be happy to give your a copy of terms of deposit) or they simply don’t know the rules or are trying it on.

    #72767 Reply

    Mike
    Participant

    JS,

    You are missing the fundamental point though.

    A dealership can give a ‘full set of terms’ to the customer paying a ‘deposit’, but if the dealership goes into administration/liquidation/bankruptcy, those t&c’s are not worth beans. The customer becomes just A.N.other unsecured creditor, who probably would be lucky to get pennies back per pound. As I said above, not all Motability customers have credit/debit cards to pay this ‘deposit’, so there is no protection what-so-ever in the cases where the ‘deposit’ is paid in cash, by cheque or by bank transfer etc.

    I agree with your second post that no customer should pay a ‘deposit’ and should hold out as such no to pay any ‘deposit’. However this can result in a stand-off between with the dealership not ordering the car and the customer not paying the deposit.

    None of this is helped or aided by Motability’s rather vague paragraph on its customer website, where it mentions ‘deposits’ in a paragraph headed ‘Advance Payments’. It doesn’t fully clarify what a deposit is, nor the fact that it is a ‘private matter’ between dealer and customer’ of which Motability have no part what-so-ever. Hence no protection of monies paid if the dealership does go belly up.

    Clarity is certainly lacking!

    This situation is only explained in your ‘internal document’ to which you say you cannot reveal the origin. However, if it is an internal Motability document, how have you come into possession of it? May I ask if you are an employee or former employee of Motability? Or a relative/friend of a Motability employee?

    Turning it to a way forward, have you any objection to the wording of your quoted ‘internal document’ being forwarded to a Member of Parliament who has a specific interest in Motability (a member of the Select Committee looking into Motability’s workings)?

    As until the question of the status of ‘deposits’ is fully stated on the customer website, it does leave customers in a potentially vulnerable situation.

    Mike.

    p.s. just to add, thisd post keeps disappearing after posting. Have you locked the thread or something?

     

    #74621 Reply

    Carmad

    In 20 years of being a Motability customer I have been asked once for a deposit.  I politely declined and went to another dealership.  If I had the ability to purchase some extras then yes I understand that the dealership are ordering a ” non standard ” Motability order and may wish to cover themselves financially in the event the customer decided against fulfilling their purchase.  Other than that, no money or PIN number until I’m happy with the car.

    #74633 Reply

    Ray Penn

    Like Carmad, SWMBO and I have been with Motability well in excess of 20 years.

    In that time we have never had to pay a “deposit”.  We have had to pay for optional extras, sometimes in excess of £1000, but we believe that the dealership is being reasonable making such a request.

    Mike, I have to admit that we are also in the fortunate position of having a credit card and when we ordered our current car we used it to pay for the extras. Wherever possible, one should always use a credit card for any transaction over £100. Whilst it may not be easy to get a credit card with a high limit these days, Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act is very flexible and it is possible to get a credit card with a very low limit – say £250 – and still be protected under S75 for more expensive purchases.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases/?_ga=2.97865500.2064420769.1554930815-749416991.1554930815

    Also, a credit card belonging to someone else can be used. Admittedly, the credit card holder would need to be very trustworthy and trusting.

    Ultimately though, a Motability customer has the the final say – one can simply walk away. The dealership may only earn £200 for each sale, but the money lost on the after-sales is far more and the loss well be felt more.

    #74635 Reply

    Philjb

    I made the beginners error of paying the full AP on my first ever motability car, with a credit card.

    i had ordered a basic car with no extras and we were told by the dealer motability specialist this way we would get our car quicker.

    He then went off to print my receipt which I then noticed had no refunds given on any deposits, with no other explanation.

    The car fell through due to further BS from the dealer and we had to go through motability to contact the dealer to return our AP in full.

    It was AP and not a deposit as he’d written the wording “full AP” and the amount on the reverse of his business card.

     

    It put me off the scheme for over 6 months, till I realised I couldn’t run a car by myself anymore and it made financial sense, with a good PX to do a deal with a good dealer, who never asked for a penny up front and who advised me of a in the colour I wanted, a cancelled order with a shed load of paid for extras, but I just needed to collect the car in person, got the PX and The January discount, combined.

    Such a big difference between a good dealer and one that will tell you anything to make a sale.

    #74650 Reply

    Abercol
    Participant

    “Such a big difference between a good dealer and one that will tell you anything to make a sale.” Very true Philjb.

    I tried several dealers of the same make over a 100 mile radius from my house, all could do what I wanted, but several stood out from the others, even when they were the same franchise owned dealerships. I asked if the dealer wanted a deposit on my £6500 AP+ extras, absolutely not he said.

    They are there to serve us, their customer, if they treat you poorly go elsewhere, why should we tolerate anything less.

    #74915 Reply

    Smoggy

    like Phil I had paid on day of ordering just to get it out the way.

    biggest mistake Ive ever made as service was crap, so want to change dealer AP being held to ransom wouldnt cancel order off system. now another 2 weeks wasted so far on motability trying to get a order transfer of the originally ordered vehicle etc etc as they believed it would be the best and quickest solution. Has been far from it tbh week 23 of an advised 12 week wait.

    if 8 seater insurance wasnt so ridiculous compared to what im paying for a 7 seater id scrap the whole thing in a heartbeat as the whole process has put me right off motability.

    expecting call today to see if an agreement has finally been reached if not then motability getting told I want it cancelled altogether and my AP back and I’ll just order a UK stock vehicle even if its not the spec/colour I wanted as I really need something before May 11th when my insurance renews as i dont fancy pulling out £1200 to pay that to then have the additional hassle of pro rata it back a few weeks later.

     

    easter holidays a bust, holiday cancelled losing deposit, 2 full price sales of my mazda 5 lost as I couldnt let people take it immediately, stressed up to the eyeballs to say the least.

    Worry free motoring my arse.

Viewing 19 replies - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
Reply To: Paying advanced payment in advance

You can use BBCodes to format your content.
Your account can't use Advanced BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.

Your information: