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Just had the local electrician around for some electrical work, he checked my board and realised the wrong make breaker have been fitted plus should be 2 way ?. There is no surge protection on the Podpoint EV charger, no surge protection to protect the solar invertors plus the isolator with for solar battery is lose on the wall. Originally HIES chased the contacted up for their many shortcoming, we have all the certificates for the work ?
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
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Hi mate, is it easy enough to put a close up pic up of your consumer unit, so I can be sure what he is refering to with 2 way (split board?)
Conusmer Units (CU) are type approved to be used with the the manufacturer MCB’s, RCD’s for thermal dynamics etc. However, as long as the non brand breaker (MCB) fits the CU properly as the original ones and there is no signs of thermal damage to it or adjacent breakers, then at the very most on an EICR (inspection report), it would be given a code C3 rating “is not compliant with CU manufacturer, but is not immediately dangerous ether (or likely to be if its been fitted a few years)!
You see this alot especially with older boards, where perhaps the manufacturer doesn’t make or has updated the breaker so it no longer fits, but one from another manufacturer does so therefore it is used. The general consensus is, if it fits right and theres no inherent problems its fine and coding as above. If however its doesn’t fit like glove as the original, its another matter. I will see more when you put a pic up.
Before moving on with the rest, does you EV charger also have its own consumer unit and is the RCD/RCBO type A (Pic tomorrow if not)
Conusmer Units (CU) are type approved to be used with the the manufacturer MCB’s, RCD’s for thermal dynamics etc. However, as long as the non brand breaker (MCB) fits the CU properly as the original ones and there is no signs of thermal damage to it or adjacent breakers, then at the very most on an EICR (inspection report), it would be given a code C3 rating “is not compliant with CU manufacturer, but is not immediately dangerous ether (or likely to be if its been fitted a few years)! You see this alot especially with older boards, where perhaps the manufacturer doesn’t make or has updated the breaker so it no longer fits, but one from another manufacturer does so therefore it is used. The general consensus is, if it fits right and theres no inherent problems its fine and coding as above. If however its doesn’t fit like glove as the original, its another matter. I will see more when you put a pic up. Before moving on with the rest, does you EV charger also have its own consumer unit and is the RCD/RCBO type A (Pic tomorrow if not)
Not really sure what he’s on about, the RCD are a different manufacture to the consumer unit, they also have no name on them, the ev charger has its own consumer unit and RCD. The original electrician who carried out the installation was a bit sloppy, I picked him up on a few occasions, we did have issues with inverter, the wiring to the battery/inverter failed, another electron was sent out to repair the bodge, to date the system work 100%. I know the local electron he is an honest guy with an excellent reputation.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Now lets look at Surge protection (SPD)
Surge protection has been around for many years, it wasn’t untill BS7671 2018, that it really started to be seen in the regulations, even so there were many grey areas on the type and where they should be fitted. However, BS 7671:2018+A2:2022 standard introduced changes regarding surge protection devices (SPDs) and under the new regulations, SPDs are required for all installations unless the installation owner opts out by providing a written statement indicating they accept the risk. Previously, the customer just opted out or more likely, they wern’t offered or fitted!
Whats important to stress here, is it is not mandatory to upgrade your electrics every time a new regulation or amendment comes out, if the installation predated the regulation or amendment, hence the reason you have the relevant certificates to when the work was carried out!
Additionally, many inverters have built in surge protection on the AC output and some have surge protection on both the AC and DC side. Many Solax inverters (model dependant) include type 2 surge protection on the AC & DC side. What model inverter do you have?
A quick snipet of
BS 7671:2018 +A2:2022 requiring that protection against transient overvoltages shall be provided where the consequence caused by overvoltage could:
(i) Result in serious injury to, or loss of, human life, or
(ii) Result in failure of a safety service, as defined in Part 2 or
(iii) Result in significant financial loss or data loss.
For all other cases, SPDs shall be fitted to protect against transient overvoltages unless the installation owner declines such protection and wishes to accept the risk of damage to both wiring and equipment as being tolerable.
(i) could apply when your car is charging i.e safeguard agains’t power surges in the event of a lightning strike and someone happens to have their hand on the car at the time of the strike however, as above, if the charger was fitted prior to amendment 2 of BS7671 came into force (28/3/2022), it is not a mandatory upgrade. (I will summarise at the end)
Solax X1-Hybrid -G4 Podpoint fitted by Podpoint in January 2020 during Covid
Our property electrics were commissioned in 2017 so prior to the regulations, our local electrician is a bit like yourself very thorough and conscious.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Not really sure what he’s on about, the RCD are a different manufacture to the consumer unit, they also have no name on them, the ev charger has its own consumer unit and RCD. The original electrician who carried out the installation was a bit sloppy, I picked him up on a few occasions, we did have issues with inverter, the wiring to the battery/inverter failed, another electron was sent out to repair the bodge, to date the system work 100%. I know the local electron he is an honest guy with an excellent reputation.
Just to get it in my head, your consumer unit has 2 RCD’s with no name and your EV charger is not supplied from the house consumer unit, rather is on its own supply with RCD protected consumer unit?
I am wondering if by 2 way, he is refering to a bidirectional RCD for the PV & battery, of which your system predatate the requirement of for bidirectional protection seen in Amendment 3 of BS 7671 2024 and therefore is not mandatory to upgrade, as mention previous and does that mean if the local electrician visits in a few years, he will want your installation to meet the latest amendments whatever they be even though your system predates it. I’m just being honest with you rather than condescending to anyone!
Has he give you a price for the work, as a consumer unit won’t be cheap and how do you feel from what he has told you given he is trusted?
From my point of view, it is somewhat concerning there is no manufacturers name on the RCD, is it cause for concern to change the board though if it passes relavent RCD tests and would a code 3 (explained above) be more appropiate. However, if you feel you want to bring it up to the latest regulations, even your installations predate these regulations, have the money to do so, yes by all means.
As explained under surge protection, there is a possible risk alhough slim under (1: Result in serious injury to, or loss of, human life), I would recommend SPD protection to be afforded to the EV charger, even though instalation predated the requirement. If there is no room for SPD protection in the charger consumr unit, an isolator c/w SPD in the supply line, would be the cheaper option.
Inverter SPD, it is recommended the manufacturer specification are consulted for inbuilt AC / DC SPD protection prior to deciding whether to proceed with external SPD protection (though not mandatory as the installation predates the requirement from memory)
Solax X1-Hybrid -G4 Podpoint fitted by Podpoint in January 2020 during Covid Our property electrics were commissioned in 2017 so prior to the regulations, our local electrician is a bit like yourself very thorough and conscious.
Blurb: One could argue the requirement for surge protection came in in 2019 where risk of transient overvoltages causing harm to life, interruption of public services, or significant financial loss. However, importantly the National Committee listened to this feedback and simplified the requirements. In BS 7671:2018+A2:2022, the regulation 4.1 was modified. The complex risk assessment, the Calculated Risk factor, and the “greyscale map” of the UK were removed. Instead the standard from 2022 states 1, 2 & 3 above to apply to all of the UK. Therefore the date concerned falls under BS7671 Amendment 2 2022 of which your charger and solar/battery predate.
That said whils’t not strictly a requirement, I’m a fan of surge protection, especially whole house surge protection to (in the unlikely event) protect that expensive TV/HiFi. As my previous comment, to avoid the risk while charging I’d recommend surge protection for the EV charger as its not expensive c.£35 for the equipment + installation (not alot)
Where, I am now having more of second thoughts to my previous comment, is your consumer unit is less than 10 years old and almost certainly predates modern requirements, I question the need to spend c£400-500 on a consumer change given it all tests out and you have had no problems since installation or the installation of solar!
Edit: Solax X1 G4 Hybrid has built in AC & DC type 2 surge protection (2nd page protection)
https://uk.solaxpower.com/uploads/file/solax-x1-hybrid-g4-datasheet-en.pdf
No requirement for external SPD protection.
Hi Kezo, the electrician is coming next week change the RCD in the consumer unit £55.00 including part plus VAT and certification, plus fitting a shaver socket in the bathroom £75.00 including part (we already have the posh shaver socket) plus VAT.
As regards the Podpoint we always knowingly disconnect if lightning is forecast, if we stay with the scheme it will be an EV, hopefully the will still supply a new EV charger to the new regulations, if we come of the scheme, it will be a hybrid the Podpoint will switched off and become redundant.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Hi Kezo, the electrician is coming next week change the RCD in the consumer unit £55.00 including part plus VAT and certification, plus fitting a shaver socket in the bathroom £75.00 including part (we already have the posh shaver socket) plus VAT. As regards the Podpoint we always knowingly disconnect if lightning is forecast, if we stay with the scheme it will be an EV, hopefully the will still supply a new EV charger to the new regulations, if we come of the scheme, it will be a hybrid the Podpoint will switched off and become redundant.
Fitting an RCD puts the board back to manufacturers approved for £55 I don’t think you can argue with that + Vat is the unecessary evil ufortunately.
Perfectly exceptable answer for the charger mate and of course the inverter has inbuilt (its worth keeping the spec sheet)
£75 for a shaver socket is ok – would he except cash for a total bill with no VAT?
I am curious given work can be slack in January, how fitting a shaver socket involved checking for surge protection on other circuits😉
Anytime mate!
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