Ohme Data cable install journey now at last concluded

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #258250
    Ele
    Participant

      Where to start lol

      Easee to Ohme pod swap over completed months ago

      First problem now resolved over the phone

      Installer had not informed Ohme to switch me on their end so on granny lead speed now sorted

      I then noticed my Easee Equalizer had been left live and still in situ also a unconnected C/T clamp dangling ( not sure if orginally easee or Ohme )

      Also app not showing c/t clamp info or any load balance info

      Spent ages back forth with messages/pics

      Just got email from Ohme and it said be in touch for a home visit or make contact if you wish

      Which I did

      Got put through to a fitter and explained the situation only to be told our system tells us that your charger keeps cutting out

      Ah no so explained the above and he let slip we are asked to simply swap over and your charger stills charges the same

      He back tracked when I said I want a safe charger that I can see load balancing and that a c/t clamp is fitted/functioning

      I got completly lost when 15m of data cable was mentioned

      What/where god only knows what this does

      I await a booking and see what happens

      Boris aint got a new job has he?

      Hope not Im doomed lol

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 47 total)
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    • #258256
      kezo
      Participant

        As I said before the Equalizer is part of Easee and thus on the instructions for it I posted.

        Because the Easee Equalizer operates over wifi and communicated with the Esaee charger by wifi, you will now need data cable, to make a hardwired connection from the CT clamp to charger. The simple reasn for this is Ohme uses a 4g e-sim, whereas the Easee charger had both e-sim and wifi, along with lifetime e-sim  support.

        In a nutshell, because Ohme don’t offer wifi on their chargers, it would be impossible to use a wireless CT clamp. As such it needs to be hardwired from your charger to a new clamp.

         

        #258264
        Ele
        Participant

          Ah cheers my light bulb is now on lol

          One more question if you dont mind

          followed by an observation following my chat with the guys coming out

          How thick is this data cable?

          Observation

          In conversation with the fitter on the phone when I said about the ct clamp not showing in the app he said your charger now charges at the same speed as the easee charger and unless asked to do so on a swap over we dont fit data cable as standard

          In other words no ct clamp

          They had to submit a quote to motorbility to cover the data cable call out

          Blimey m8 so my problem if he is correct affects thousands across the country

          No wonder this swap over is being handled in a one to one hush hush manner

          Cheers Kezo

          #258285
          kezo
          Participant

            Data cable is Cat5/6 – 4 pair is a about the same a BT telephone cable coming into your house and 2 pair is half the size. You only need one pair to connect a CT clamp but, very much depends what they have on their van.

            Demand-limited (load curtailment) charging covers CT clamps and is refered to  in the IET Code of Practice for Electric Vehicle Charging Equipment Installation

            Its a safety feature at the end of the day, as the clamp monitors the load going through your house. If the clamp detects the load is close to exceeding the total load the house can handle, the charge rate of the charger would be reduced.

            In the event your cut-out were blow, due to overload, the HSE time scale for the DNO to replace it, is up to 21 days and your likely be billed for  the work.

            Whats deeply concerning is, no checks were done when they came out and swopped over tothe Ohme charger. They also proceeded to unclip the CT clamp, as photo’s show it was connected prior to the changeover. They then either didn’t notice they had left it unclipped or most likely realisised its wasn’t compatible Ohme, as no wifi is available and thought fook it no one will notice – Cowboy!

            Did they issue you with another test certificate once they had swopped over to the Ohme charger?

            Insist on a hardwired one being connected, if for only safety reasons!

            #258290
            Ele
            Participant

              Cheers again

              Safety certificate not sure will look

              Hardwire it will be

              The attitude was we swap without hardwired as you still get the same rate of charge as the Easee wtf

              I suspect motorbility know this and accepted this at tender

              And because I picked up on it and contacted Ohme I assume they simply counter charge motorbility for a second visit

              I was stunned having been detailed as possible when contacting Ohme that the installer to be said Oh your charger keeps cutting out

              Ah no it never has

              Yep agree cowboys probally the cheapest tender

              Trouble being because all of this motorbility swap over comes across as a bit cloak and dagger there is little or any standard of expectation

              Therfore as this is being quietly done on a one by one basis each person hascno idea what they should be getting

              This inc me but thanks to you I knew my set up was not complete

              Bit of a shambles that motorbility should get a grip off

              #258308
              Ele
              Participant

                Ohme latest message

                thought Easee Equalizer  box was standard even so Ohme has a clamp in the box that is meant to be used

                Cutting corners till pulled up

                Not great treating disabled people as second rate imo

                Thanks for your email.

                Most customers that had Easee chargers and were moving to Ohme chargers didn’t have Load Balancing with the charger. This was a rare circumstance where you had the Equalizer fitted and so we need to fit the data cable and clamp with the Ohme charger to keep that Load Balancing functionality.

                We will put in place some adjustments to ensure that this checked on other future swap outs.

                #258314
                kezo
                Participant

                  Suggesting Easee chargers didn’t have load balancing is just BS. Ohme very well know load balancing is a “requitrement” otherwise why supply a clamp in the their charger. Talk about digging a deeper hole for themselves!

                  Whoever they contracted to come and swop you over to Ohme needs sacking. They took the clamp off realising it was wireless and not compatable with the Ohme charger and either couldn’t be arsed to hard wire one or they didn’t understand the regs surrounding chargers.

                  On the otherhand if Ohme chargers were built to the same standard as Easee chargers aong with others on the market, there wouldn’t be an issue with connecting a wireless clamp.

                  What is most worrying is a customer let alone a disabled one, unaware of the risks involved because a qulified installer either couldn’t be arsed or didn’t understand. It also begs the question, how many more Motability installs aren’t  to standard!


                  @MFillingham
                  is another who had an issue very early on during the survey stage with an outrageous maximum demand, that led to the DNO contacting him, because “apparently” he was the one that calculated it, according to the paperwork. Would you or anyone else n here know how to calculate it?

                  I’d love to write to Motability on behalf everyone but, I’d expect it fall on death ears. However I’ll be having a charger fitted in the not so distant future and beieve me I’ll just be your average punter when they do and won’t think twice reporting it to the IEC/NICEIC if its not fitted to current regs.

                   

                  #258327
                  MFillingham
                  Participant

                    I’d love to write to Motability on behalf everyone but, I’d expect it fall on death ears. However I’ll be having a charger fitted in the not so distant future and beieve me I’ll just be your average punter when they do and won’t think twice reporting it to the IEC/NICEIC if its not fitted to current regs.

                     

                    Go on!!! Do it!!!  Most of us come from a point of muddling through without knowing the correct path, it needs someone who fully understands to ensure the message sent to Motability compares what we’re getting against what should be happening.

                    I’m fairly convinced that I’d either be making up a number or going without as I had absolutely no clue what they were on about.

                    I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                    I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                    Mark

                    #258328
                    Ele
                    Participant

                      Agree m8

                      Quote…..Do I need data cable for EV charger?
                      The answer in its shortest form is yes – due to smart charging regulations, home EV chargers do need Wi-Fi or at least some form of connectivity (4G) between your EV charger, your EV and the electricity grid in order to access smart features.

                      Latest from installer/sub contractor cant proceed yet as we do not have agreed funding

                      Have @ Ohme and asked who is funding Motorbility or Ohme

                      Be intresting to know and will update

                      #258330
                      Ele
                      Participant

                        I assume those having a first install of Ohme Pod also have the data cable/CT Clamp installed if so why not do the same when swapping from Easee to Ohme Pod

                         

                         

                        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Ele.
                        #258353
                        kezo
                        Participant

                          I can’t fight an individual case mate but, I’d certainly be writing a compaint to Mobility.

                          Dear Motability

                          Following your campaign to replace Easee charge points Ohme units, I note or my electrician noted that the current clamp, has been left disconnected at the time the Ohme unit was installed. Upon further investigation I or my electrician noted that the installed Easee wireless current clamp is not compatable with the Ohme charger, as they don’t have WiFi facility.

                          I find this deeply concerning an installer would intentionally leave the current clamp disconnected, without carrying out any remedial work that day or at least the next. I also find it deeply concerning, that the installer would have at to carry out safety checks, yet had no regard to mine or my family’s safety.

                          I contacted Ohme on “date” who first suggested customers moving from Easee didn’t have load balancing current clamps, which I or my electrician refute’s, due to the regulation 722.311.201 In the event load balancing wasn’t pressent at the time, Ohme’s installer should have refused to connect untill further guidance of extra works was given, not just ignored or disconnecting the existing clamp soley on the basis it was not compatable with the Ohme charger or by leaving my family vunerable due to a missing safety item.

                          Correspondance on “date” from the contractor states they are not proceeding, with the installation yet as they do not have agreed funding to carry out the work. Surely this should have all been agreed by yourselves at the time of changing Easee chargers over to Ohme.

                          I refer you to the regulation set out below.

                          BS671 Regulation 722.311.201

                          Apply’s to circuits intended to supply EV’s and relates to maximum demand, which specifically mentions Load Curtailment, including load reduction or disconnection either automatically or manually. It can also be taken into account when calculating maximum demand.

                          Load curtailment, is a way of monitoring how much current is flowing into the charger or the whole house at any one time and works by setting a limit on the charger, so  the home supply does not overload. This is acheived by Current Clamp (CT Clamp), which serve’s to reduce the current going into the charger, should there be a risk of overloading the supply, which also acts as a safety feature.

                          I request this remedial work to be given upmost importance and carried out in a timely manner, along with all Easee customers who changed over to Ohme, to have investorgatory work done ensuring they have load balancing in place, as a matter of safety to scheme users. 

                          Kind regards

                          Ele

                           

                          #258389
                          Ele
                          Participant

                            Nice one

                            Will keep that in my back pocket

                             

                            #258442
                            Ele
                            Participant

                              I have now complained and escalated to Motorbility

                              Seems Im onto something according to not only Kezo great feedback  but also feedback from F/B Ohme dedicated user support group

                              They agree with Kezo ( of course didnt doubt that but their feedback is from others/motorbility who have had to raise the same issue as I am having to now raise

                              Seems Crystal EV Charging who did the first crap install and are now set to at some point to return are right now getting a bit techy and refusing to answer the simple question

                              What was you asked to do by Ohme when swapping over, did a data cable come into the equations

                              Very simple question refused to answer even though his so called Tec team a few days ago told me they did not usually fit them ( alarm bells now ringing)

                              Q/ unanswered as yet is who is at fault here Motorbility/Ohme /fitters?

                              More cloak and daggers than a Agatha Christie book lol

                              Nothing straightforward with the whole process

                              First being able to first have a home charger and now ensuring its been fitted properly/safely

                              Big ask for for those most vulnerable imo and can see why many will avoid taking such steps in the first place

                              I will update as we go and once concluded I will start a new thread to inc all findings

                              Update as forgot to add  … Ohme said via @

                              Most customers that had Easee chargers and were moving to Ohme chargers didn’t have Load Balancing with the charger. This was a rare circumstance where you had the Equalizer fitted and so we need to fit the data cable and clamp with the Ohme charger to keep that Load Balancing functionality.

                              BS imo as Easee wifi Equalizer/load balancer was part of their standard install

                              The saga continues and again although uneeded Im having to be once again like a dog with a bone

                              • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Ele.
                              • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Ele.
                              #258468
                              kezo
                              Participant

                                I will go into a little more detail on how 722.311.201 applies to maximum demand and load curtailment, Especially from a Motability point of view, as I’m aware of how the survey is carried out mostly by scheme users. I can’t speak on how this has been done for the FB group, or want to get involved.

                                Chapter 31 of regulations, talks alot about maximum demand, sec 311.1 mentions how maximum demand should be calculated and where diversity may be considered for the whole or part of the installation.

                                The installation certificate issued at the time of installation of the Easee charger has a box where the information for maximum demand is put in kVA or Amps. Its unlikely to say how it was calculated. (a pic would be good)

                                Asessing maximum demand in general and in particular for charge points –

                                Lets say, for example you have a 10 way consumer unit, which has the following MCB’s  40A cooker, 2x 32A ring circuits (sockets), 16A immersion heater and 2x 6A lighting circuits.

                                To calculate maximum demand for the above random consumer unit.

                                40+(0.4*(32+32+16+6+6)) = 76.8A current maximum demand of the home

                                In other words 100% of the largest circuit plus 40% of the rest.

                                76.8A is safely within the 100A main switch of the consumer unit and importantly safely within the DNO’s 80 or 100A cut-out fuse.

                                In order to facilate the installation of a charge point a new 32A circuit will need to be added and most likely a dedicated cconsumer unit for the charger.

                                A typical 7kW charger is rated at 30.43A, No allowance for diversity is allowed meaning the full 30.43A is taken into acount.

                                The new maximum demand with the chargepoint connected is now 107.2A (76.8+30.43)

                                The new maximum demand exceeds the current rating of the consumer units main switch, unless a dedicated consumer unit for charger purposes is installed as is the norm

                                More so the new maximum demand exceeds the current rating of the DNO’s cut-out fuse and therefore must be refered to the DNO for assessment. The DNO must also be notified if the maximum demand is equall to or greater than 60A, so they can install either a 80 or 100A cut out fuse for 1 phase supplies. However we have a new 107.2A maximum demand, which is greater than the DNO’s cut-out fuse.

                                The important bit, which refers back to yesterdays post.

                                In order to reduce the load, load curtailment may be used, which can be used to determine the maximum demand.  By far the easiest and most used methods of load curtailment are current clamps (CT clamps)

                                A current clamp installed with the installation of a charge point will ensure the load is automatically monitored not to exceed the DNO’s cut-out rating or the consumer units main switch will not become overloaded, making an 107.2A maximum demand safe to use and limited to 80 or 100A set by either the DNO’s cut -out or main switch of the consumer unit.

                                The current clamp works on the principle of reducing the chargers load in the event the whole installation becomes dangerously close to overloading. As more people start using their appliances at night during cheaper rates a clamp will also add an extra level of safety, along with those that get cheaper rates a certain times of the day whils’t charging.

                                 

                                The requirement of regulation 641.2 and sec 30, that an assessment of the electrical installation is provided to the person carrying out the inspection and testing, which includes the installation’s safety and characteristics –

                                Purpose for which it is intended to be used

                                Structure and supplies

                                External influences

                                Compatibility of associated equipment

                                All recognised safety services and Assessment for continuity of the services.

                                etc

                                Based on these it is vital to asses what used for before commencement of the design process. This is to ensure there are no inherent problems resulting from excessive loading or inadequate protection of the services.

                                How this can be met by providing a few photos, especially taking into account external influences is beyond me!

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                • This reply was modified 5 months ago by kezo.
                                #258497
                                Ele
                                Participant

                                  Agree

                                  Principle here imo

                                  Is simply a questioon of why are Ohme swap chargers not meeting the same installation standards as a first time installation?

                                  Not acceptable that this measure is being done to save cost imo

                                  I have so far established that the fitters are simply following Ohme guidance

                                  I am waiting on (Ohme elusive so far) to see if Motorbility has agreed to all of this.

                                  I suspect they may try and hush me up by installing the data cable if that happens the digging will resume once its been done lol

                                  Couldnt make this up

                                  Motorbility fitted/then changed gods know how many easee chargers over to Ohme and now they may well skimp on the installation to recoup the loss

                                  #258498
                                  kezo
                                  Participant

                                    What did you say in your complaint to motability?

                                    I agree it looks to be a cost cutting exercise. However and I can’t stress this enough – the installer should have withdrew/stalled on the  Ohme changeover, if they thought there was a detriment to safety and or to request further funding to complete the job to the relevant standard, if not already obtained.

                                    The installer is the electrician, who sits above Ohme or their contractor with knowledge of the latest regulations.

                                    #258640
                                    kezo
                                    Participant

                                      I have included enough regulaion # surrounding load monitoring and the need for it, for you to run rings round Ohme when they call you on Monday.

                                      It would also be useful in your discusion with Ohme to inform them of your maximum demand to add, to above regs.

                                      If you list the Amps of the MCB’s in your consumer unit, I will gladly work that out for you!

                                      From what I can see crystal EV charging, is a spin off of crystal electronics,  who’s website has been down, so can’t get their accreditation number.

                                       

                                      #258646
                                      Ele
                                      Participant

                                        Kezo

                                        Hi got a msg 2 mins ago

                                        Hope you’re well.

                                        I have confirmed costs covered with the installer directly

                                        Ohme will be happy to cover the call out fee for this revisit

                                        ………………………………………………………………………………

                                        I await a booking date/time

                                        Suspect this is to appease and in the hope I will keep my mouth shut ..No chance as cat is out of the bag and others going forward will know all you have to do is ruffle a few feathers ….tbh shouldnt have needed to in the first place.

                                        I have nailed the failure down to and between Ohme/Motorbility

                                        But neither putting their hands up as being responsible for this failure.

                                        I do know than non motorbility Ohme customers have had the same issue as me

                                        Cheers Kezo ..TOP MAN

                                         

                                        #258797
                                        Ele
                                        Participant

                                          Final update (hopefully)

                                          Following my countless @ to and fro with Ohme eventually  having to get Motorbility involved

                                          I have managed to highlight a problem with the Easee to Ohme swap over process.

                                          The problem (for first time readers) being that the motorbility swap from Easee to Ohme charger did not always inc the fitting of the much needed data cable/CT Clamp

                                          I have just been told by Ohme that my concerns/complaint have highlighted errors in the process that they were unaware of

                                          Their aim is to now address these errors across the board so that all swap overs will now have the data cable/CT Clamp fitted as standard

                                          Something I am told they thought was already happening

                                          Ohme have put their hands up and said they failed to add enough detail when getting contractors to carry out the works.

                                          This swap process Im told going forward will have clearer instruction

                                          Mine is being sorted on the 22nd

                                          Thank you Kezo for sharing with me some of your vast knowledge

                                          Most helpfull

                                          The end lol  ( fingers crossed)

                                          • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ele.
                                          #258820
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            Ohme have put their hands up and said they failed to add enough detail when getting contractors to carry out the works.

                                            Ohme are purely the manufacturer, who contract through a third party body the installation of EVCP’s by supposedly qualfied electricians, who should be suitably qualfied in the installation of EVCP’s.

                                            As a qualified electrician, it is your individual responsibility to ensure the insallation of the EVCP is carried out to BS761 18th edition A2 and in particulary chapter 722 of the regulations.

                                            The onus therefore falls on the electrician to either halt the install or approve further funding to carry out the work according to BS7671 722.311.201

                                            In your case the electrician knowingly removed the CT clamp from the meter tails after realising it was part of a wireless device, not compatible with the Ohme charger and made no attempt to remedy their actions to a satisfactory standard and would be liable for their failure todo this.

                                            Did they even test their installation or just cut and run!

                                            No escuse and an assessor should have been involved code 2 ing their work after this, rather than it brushed under the carpet.

                                             

                                             

                                            #258837
                                            Ele
                                            Participant

                                              Agree.

                                              When I reflect on the whole of the EV Charger installation process I think why is the whole process so fragmented and complicated?

                                              If you want a charger fitted then why is the customer having to do all the leg work

                                              1st hurdle getting permission from landlord was as if I was the first to ask,no one knew what I had to show them and it took months for them to unravel their own process.

                                              Everything being done indirectly and having to talk and deal with a third party,a third party that changed each time I made contact.

                                              2nd hurdle getting the house supply up to EV Charger standard was a communication battle

                                              3rd hurdle: Then being asked to measure and draw and photograph things I knew nothing about

                                              This motorbility EV Charger process is dire and could and should be made easier.

                                              In fact the whole process should be made easier for every customer if EVs are to be encouraged

                                              I am like a dog with a bone but I have found having to climb over so many hurdles quite draining.

                                              This EV roll out is going to soon hit a wall imo

                                              The sales will dip imo ( good thing is when this happens and it will I predict AP will soon drop and we will see more new/old manufacturers join/rejoin the scheme )

                                              Rant over till something else rocks my boat lol

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              #259105
                                              Ele
                                              Participant

                                                Ok happenging live as I type

                                                Fitter here to install data cable he has never seen such a thing little command of the english language asks me where it goes from and where to.

                                                omg  will update later as he is in the van making calls

                                                Not holding out much hope at the min

                                                ………………………………………………………………update latest

                                                Crystal fitters office rings me tells me he is competant  ( now they have spent 45mins on the phone to him giving him a walk through

                                                I was having none of it and demanded another fitter be called out as the one here looked like he just landed from another planet and had no clue about Ohme data cables having to be installed

                                                Fitter told me there is a switch in my meter that will trip out if there is a problem

                                                I said the point is not to get to that stage thats why your here

                                                I then explained if I was to have solar panels fitted  it could overload the system

                                                Ah he said so your getting solar fitted

                                                I said Im undecided at the moment so best treat all customers as if they may well do if/when they wish and fit the data as standard as it is Ohme recommended practice to do so

                                                I have fitted lots of Ohme but never with a data cable he said

                                                thinking to myself blimey you possibly have a lot of recalls coming up then

                                                I said best then if you read their manual

                                                The Boss on the phone then did the worse thing possible to me and started talking to me as if I am some kind of idiot

                                                Having none of that

                                                Phone slammed by me

                                                Next thing fitter knocks my door and asks for the data cable that had earlier been sent to me by post

                                                Replied with a big fat NO and shut the door lol

                                                Said from the start I had a funny feeling about how this may play out,little did I know how bad it was going to be

                                                Contacted Ohme told them crystal was not up to task ( polite way to put it) and do not want them near my home again

                                                Ohme fully understood and sorted this in 2 mins and another firm is to be allocated to do the works will know more Mon

                                                Is it just me omg

                                                • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ele.
                                                #259118
                                                kezo
                                                Participant

                                                  Sorry mate been out most of morning. Will have a closer look what the clowns have said, when back from picking up daughter.

                                                  #259123
                                                  Ele
                                                  Participant

                                                    No problem m8

                                                    When the data cable  is eventually installed I assume it will run close to main power cable,looking at the cable it looks very thin and wonder if I should cover it all over with some king of plaatic shield

                                                    Concerned mainly the data cable will partly be open to being knocked into as its in a shared alley area.

                                                    Running the data cable under the main cable would help in part I would have thought

                                                    Any tips? appreciated

                                                    What a circus lol

                                                    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ele.
                                                    #259136
                                                    kezo
                                                    Participant

                                                      Is the cable sheath black and pretty stiff like extenal BT phone cable?

                                                      Put a pic up showing the ends

                                                      #259145
                                                      Ele
                                                      Participant

                                                        Wish it was black but no its grey and gonna stick out a bit next to black main cable

                                                        Do they do black the same?

                                                        ……………………………………………………………………………………..

                                                        I expected armour coated is this one below adequate or not as just guessing

                                                        EV Ultra Cable, 6mm², 3 Core + Data, PVC, Steel Wire Armour, Black

                                                        ……………………………………………………………………………….

                                                         

                                                        https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-_lL7bkT1rw2zoxTf6PQ5wh-xXQgAPhe/view?usp=sharing

                                                         

                                                        https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-b8Na764TOEw63AKeYx4S_IulXm1OnKL/view?usp=sharing

                                                        • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ele.
                                                        • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ele.
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