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Now many disabled find the scheme for what they need too expensive, there is a three tier system running now war pensioners get cheaper APS and I am not saying they should not as my Dad was in would war 2 and my Grandad in 1st war at the somme. He was mustard gassed and it affected him a lot. Some disabled had polio vaccine in 1950s that the Gov gave and my friend actually got polio through the vaccine he does not get lower payment on motability and then there is vat free on wav on AP so now the scheme is in three tiers which really should be a level playing ground I think otherwise disabled are now being judged on who is worthy and can afford to now have the right car.
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Start that sort of argument publicly and bring a world of hurt against the disabled.
It can be said it’s a four tier system, as those on PIP but standard rate mobility don’t get access to the scheme.
The media, who still control the publics perception, would have a field day, that the disabled complaining about their “free” car for tennis elbow or anxiety, whilst the hard working man doesn’t get jack
Do you really want a deep investigation into the scheme? For instance, pip is not yet means tested, and there are many MPs who would like to scrap tge scheme totally and offer grants for adaptions instead.
Oh, and in todays newspapers us tye artifle
“LABOUR CONSIDERS SCRAPPING THE DISABILITY GRANT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE”
Labour is considering scrapping one of the main disability benefits for young people and offering them more intensive back-to-work support instead, according to reports.
Andy Burnham is said to be looking at abolishing the health element of Universal Credit, worth £217 a month, for under-25s.
It is about judging disabled which is and has been happening dealers are already doing this on the vat.
Now many disabled find the scheme for what they need too expensive, there is a three tier system running now war pensioners get cheaper APS
Thats an illusion through ignorance of not knowing the rules outside PIP.
The lower AP’s for WPMS, is because they pay a larger amount every month (4 weekly). Whats important, after 3 years across is WPMS pay no more or no less than someone on PIP.
@BigDave or @mitch would explain better how it works for WPMS.But, importantly there are no tiers in that sense 🙂
Thanks @kezo , you are spot on.
Yes, It is not all about advanced payments. It overlooks the fact that the Advance Payment is only one part of the Motability payment equation – the other part being the 4-weekly payments.
The reason war pensioners pay a lower advance payment is to ensure that for a whole 3 or 5 year lease, they pay exactly the same overall as everyone else for the same car due to the fact they pay £9.25 more every week.
It would appear the OP may be advocating that war pensioners pay the same advanced payment as everyone else, which would mean said war pensioners paying £1443 more than everyone else for exactly the same vehicle over the course of the same lease.
As a veteran myself, I think I can imagine what any mustard gassed antecedent would have thought of that!
The reason as to why veterans on WPMS receive a higher weekly allowance, is simply down history and the fact that WPMS predates the introduction of the old Mobility Allowance.
When the government of the day back in the 1970’s introduced the Mobility Allowance (which later morphed into DLA/PIP mobility components) they simply set it at a lower weekly rate than the then prevailing WPMS weekly rate.
As both rise annually by the same metric the differential continues.
Perhaps one could lobby the government to increase PIP/DLA mobility component to the same weekly level as WPMS? However with the prevailing public and media attitude towards welfare and Motability, I am pretty sure what the answer from the government would be!
However there are definitely no tiers – all Motability customers pay exactly the same for Motability vehicle, albeit the VAT portion may vary slightly due to the slightly lower AP (but blame the former Chancellor for that one)!
@BigDave, to be pedantic, it is a rip off the war pensioners, as war pension increases more (in absolute values) due to the triple lock, so eventually the veterans pay more for the same vehicle.
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Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019@BigDave, to be pedantic, it is a rip off the war pensioners, as war pension increases more (in absolute values) due to the triple lock, so eventually the veterans pay more for the same vehicle.
To also be pedantic (lol), there is no triple lock on War Pensions! They rise every April solely in line with the prevailing CPI from the preceeding September.
Because of this and as other the other Motability qualifying benefits rise by the same metric, War Pensioners do actually benefit by a few pence every year due to the base allowance the percentage increase is added to. Last year it was a whole 6p per week!
Motability do actually factor this in, but overall the effect is negligible.
@BigDave, to be pedantic, it is a rip off the war pensioners, as war pension increases more (in absolute values) due to the triple lock, so eventually the veterans pay more for the same vehicle.
@kdwolf To also be pedantic (lol), there is no triple lock on War Pensions! They rise every April solely in line with the prevailing CPI from the preceeding September. Because of this and as other the other Motability qualifying benefits rise by the same metric, War Pensioners do actually benefit by a few pence every year due to the base allowance the percentage increase is added to. Last year it was a whole 6p per week! Motability do actually factor this in, but overall the effect is negligible.
Seems the press are winning, when were fighting among us over nothing more than the pedantics of the system!
My God, am I glad I’m out of it.
A
In t9days Guardian, if youre over 40, pip might ge removed…
”
More broadly, officials are working up plans under the replacement system for a new set of eligibility criteria and assessments for the extra costs of disability, and looking at whether this would apply to all claimants of working age, or those below a cut-off point such as 50 or 60. Again, those with the most severe conditions would not lose money or be reassessed.
Officials have also been returning to the idea of cuts to the Motability scheme at a future budget, after axing tax breaks worth £300m. The scheme allows disabled people to use their Pip benefit to lease new cars for three years.
One Whitehall source said removing or further cutting the health element of universal credit for those older than 25 had been considered, but government sources said this was not on the table.
Officials have looked at systems in other countries, such as Denmark, which restricts access to its “disability pension” for under-40s, who instead are given help with flexible jobs and training unless they have no ability permanently to work.
A government source said: “We will be bringing forward a comprehensive package of support and reform to tackle the scandal of a million young people not in education, employment or training. The details are yet to be decided, but we are committed to enabling work and opportunity, while always protecting those unable to work.”
The significant changes would need legislation, with ministers and officials looking at a bill encompassing the replacement for Pip and changes to the under-25 system to be presented in the next session of parliament next year.
Pat McFadden, the work and pensions secretary, used his conference speech this week to describe changing the welfare system as a “moral crusade”, saying too many younger people were stuck claiming benefits for too long.
However, the scale of the plans could reignite concerns among Labour MPs about the impact on the cost of living for disabled people, particularly when Pip is a non-means-tested benefit that is unrelated to a person’s employment status.”
It would be more positive and productive to hear what the Government are actively doing in firstly, producing jobs, that the unemployed and the less disabled could do for an incentive based fair wage, such as they did back in the Remploy times (1945 – 2013), with its subsidized sheltered workplace scheme.
Instead of demonizing the disabled and cutting benefits to try and force them into jobs, that the Government have done nothing yet, to try and produce.
It takes a lot less effort and talent to be negative, than it does to be positive and develop creative and productive ideas.
What about the low paid and pensioners with small second pension the single persons allowance is a mere £12570 and with inflation should be about £15000 to £18000 so we are getting hit from all angles. As to what I started I thought we called set the AP to the war pensions limit to everyone now that the price is unaffordable to many we should all be as one not divided.
In 1977 the Mobility Allowance Incompatible Benefit rules came into effect, which meant that if you were getting Mobility Allowance and then became employed, then your Motability Allowance could be cut or stopped.
So it would not be unprecedented for PIP Mobility component to become means tested in the future.
In t9days Guardian, if youre over 40, pip might ge removed…
I think the press of having a field day with their guesswork.
Similarly reported in the Independent “Changes could also see Pip replaced for under-25s, or overhauled entirely for all claimants or possibly those under a cut-off at around 50 or 60.”
How do they pay more when a toyota yaris is over£4000 are you joking it is swings and roundabouts I know but all APS should be in line as we are all disabled. Nothing wrong with equerty so do not get your knickers in a twist.
Although there will be a tightening up of the PIP qualifying rules, I think the biggest PIP changes are likely to be for new claimants and by dangling carrots for the young. But until they create the jobs, it will all be a bit of a PR job.
I remember a Job center manager telling me, that it didn’t matter what policy a Government came up with, if a claimant was no use to an employer, then the employer would not want to employ them.
They could also class PIP as an overlapping benefit, according to my goldish, who seems to have as many political contacts in the know, as the paper colonists.
@kdwolf To also be pedantic (lol), there is no triple lock on War Pensions! They rise every April solely in line with the prevailing CPI from the preceeding September. Because of this and as other the other Motability qualifying benefits rise by the same metric, War Pensioners do actually benefit by a few pence every year due to the base allowance the percentage increase is added to. Last year it was a whole 6p per week! Motability do actually factor this in, but overall the effect is negligible.
even worse…. War Pensioners worth 6p a week…
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Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 - September 2026 (won my case with Ombudsman)
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Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019I’m sorry but are we actually separating disabled people based upon how they became disabled? there should be no point at which a war vet has to justify paying less upfront for a car.
Is it not bad enough that the press and certain political parties are busy causing division between those with disabilities and those without? Add in the fact that this quarter has been somewhat bleak with a few bright spots scattered very thinly, shouldn’t we really be working together to help where we can?
I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.Mark
It’s not certain political parties, but evety one that can be in government (and a few who cannot)
There isn’t a party who will defend the PIP scheme, but many trying to outdo each other in how much they can cut.
Hardly surprising when the total benefits bill is almost as much as the countries GDP
I’m sorry but are we actually separating disabled people based upon how they became disabled? there should be no point at which a war vet has to justify paying less upfront for a car. Is it not bad enough that the press and certain political parties are busy causing division between those with disabilities and those without? Add in the fact that this quarter has been somewhat bleak with a few bright spots scattered very thinly, shouldn’t we really be working together to help where we can?
Personally I think we should – the veterans were sent to do their duties in the name of Queen and Country and they should get more.
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Apologies for briefness and spelling mistakes.Motability Skoda Enyaq SportLine 85x April 2024 - September 2026 (won my case with Ombudsman)
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Motability VW Touran Family Pack May 2019
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