New Tiguan PHEV versus Facelifted Tucson PHEV

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  • #284639
    Glos Guy
    Participant

      Much as I’d prefer to keep our current car (2021 BMW X1 2.0i), my wife now really needs a person hoist to get in to the car, so we have no choice but to order a new one. I’m considering a PHEV and am waiting for my local Hyundai dealer to get a Tucson for me to have on test. In the meantime, the new VW Tiguan has appeared on the scheme. We’ve had four different previous generation Tiguans. The first 3 were fine, but we had a number of issues with the last one (a 2018 2.0 TDi 190 Elegance). None the less, I like the exterior of the new Tiguan (more so than the Tucson) but I prefer the interior of the Tucson, so some comparisons are necessary! I stress that I haven’t driven either car yet, so what follows is purely a paper exercise. I am comparing the Tiguan Elegance 204 PS (AP £4,899) with the Tucson Ultimate (AP £4,599) and the Tiguan R-Line 272 PS (AP £5,699) with the Tucson N-Line S (AP £4,599). Both Tucsons are 253 PS. I will just list the differences

      Length – Tiguan 4539 mm, Tucson 4510 mm

      Width (exc mirrors) – Tiguan 1842 mm (Elegance), 1859 mm (R-Line), Tucson 1865 mm

      Height – Tiguan 1658 mm, Tucson 1653 mm (Ultimate), 1650 mm (N-Line S)

      Wheelbase – Tiguan 2679 mm, Tucson 2680 mm

      Boot space (rear seats in place) – Tiguan 490 mm, Tucson 558 mm

      PS & Torque – Tiguan 204 PS / 350 nm, or 272 PS / 400 nm, Tucson 253 PS / 304 nm

      Electric Only Range – Quoted figures vary, and are probably somewhat optimistic, but the Tucson is around 38 miles and the Tiguan around 72 miles. Even allowing for real world performance, the Tiguan is likely to have almost twice the electric only range

      0-62 mph – Tiguan 8.2 secs (204 PS) or 7.2 secs (272 PS), Tucson 8.5 secs

      2WD or 4WD – Both Tiguans are 2WD, both Tucsons are 4WD

      Alloy Wheels – 19” on all, except Tiguan R-Line has 20”

      Leather Trim & Power Front Seats – Standard on Tucson Ultimate, Optional extra on Tiguan (£2,070 Elegance, £2,120 R-Line). Tucson N-Line S has powered front seats as standard, but full leather trim isn’t even an option.

      Heated & Ventilated Seats – All have heated front seats, but both Tucson models also have heated rear seats and the front seats are also ventilated (cooling).

      Keyless entry and hands free tailgate – Standard on both Tucsons and Tiguan Elegance, £1,100 option on Tiguan R-Line

      Premium Sound System – Standard on both Tucsons (Krell), £1,420 option on both Tiguans (Harmon Kardon)

      Matrix Headlights – Standard on both Tucsons, £580 option on Tiguan Elegance and £1,530 option on Tiguan R-Line (has to be bundled with a pack that is standard on the Elegance)

      Panoramic Sunroof – Standard on both Tucsons, £1,350 option on both Tiguan’s

      360 degree camera – Standard on both Tucsons and Tiguan Elegance, £950 option on Tiguan R-Line

      Blind Spot Warning Systems – The Tiguan system is a warning symbol in the door mirror, whereas the Tucson has cameras in the door mirrors that display a side view camera in the instrument cluster when indicating.

      In summary, the Tucson clearly outscores the Tiguan equipment wise (quite significantly), but the Tiguans electric only range is almost double that of the Tucson. I appreciate that other PHEVs are available, but these two cars are almost identical size wise and direct competitors. Both are new cars (all new in the case of the Tiguan, extensive interior facelift in the case of the Tucson). Hopefully the above may be of some use to anybody else weighing up these two cars.

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 26 total)
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    • #284646
      Rene
      Participant

        In terms of pure value, neither is great – that said, the Tucson is quite clearly a better choice in that regard. VW skimped quite a bit on this one even compared to the Mk2 Tiguan (no Matrix LEDs as standard etc).

        I do think that the Tiguan is the better looking car by a mile, and i think that the PHEV system in the Tiguan is somewhat nonsensical. I think that it’s too much range. I understand that this sounds weird, and it might be different circumstances for different people, but if we’re taking my personal situation (since that’s the one i can speak to):

        I charge at home, wall charger. Everything that needs to be driven to is within 20 miles, be it weekly shopping trip, hospitals etc pp. That means i can go there electric, come back electric, put the car back on charge and have 38ish miles tomorrow again.

        Everything past those 20 miles would require me to use roads going 70mph+. Where range drastically implodes. At 70mph+, my best guess is, you’d get maybe 35 miles range. At best (and it’s gonna be way worse at that speed in winter). Which is reasonably pointless for a motorway journey.

        So in my case with said Tiguan, i’d never be able to use more than slightly more than half the battery. I drive 40 miles tops and then charge, or i drive 70+. That means they could’ve saved me 100kg+ by installing the older, smaller battery, and make the car more efficient. I understand that these circumstances are coined to me directly, but i don’t think that there’s many people required to drive 72 miles every day – and every day you don’t and charge the car back up in the evening, you wasted money.

        At least, my opinion. Our last refuel lasted for almost 1500 miles, at 38 miles avg electric range.

        It’s just something to consider and really think about, if the 72 miles really are that much of weight on the scales between them – not saying it’s impossible, but i am saying that it’s a headline grabbing number that might simply not make sense to you or someone else.

        I also couldn’t live without Matrix LEDs anymore, amongst other things – so the Tiguan would command a considerable premium over the Tucson, without really justifying it.

        Just as a 2 cents, i haven’t driven either of course (i did drive the older Tucson as well as Tiguan, but not either of the new ones).

        Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
        Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

        #284650
        Glos Guy
        Participant

          Thanks @Rene That does indeed make a lot of sense to me. Most of our local journeys are around 30 miles round trip maximum, albeit a lot of that is motorway. On that basis, the electric only range on the Tucson should be just about sufficient to run in EV mode for the majority (if not all) of the trip, whereas the Tiguan’s extra capacity could be superfluous.

          I’ve never driven a PHEV, so I don’t know whether I would prefer to drive in EV mode as far as I can from the off, or whether I’d just leave it in auto (hybrid) mode and let the car decide when to use the battery and when to use the engine. Am I correct in thinking that it’s much cheaper to do the former, even though I’m on a standard electric tariff?

          I don’t intend to fit a charger, so would be charging via a 3-pin plug as there is always time to do that between journeys, and I can do this under cover in our garage.

          #284665
          kezo
          Participant

            I agree with Rene on the range of the Tiguan being nonsensical. It costs the same “x” pence per kW/h charging the battery. no matter how big or small it is, it just means you may have plug in an extra time.

            VW quotes 62 miles across the Tiguan line up with the same range quoted across the new Kodiaq line up. Its a similar story with Hyundai (38 miles) and I’ll add the Sportage for comparison as the running gear is identical (44 miles/18″ wheels).. As any electric car owner will tell you, this figure applies to the base model or the model with the smalles’t wheel size. That said I eeked just shy of 38 miles mon/tue.

            Hyundai have always been very conservitive with 0-60 times. The previous Tucson being able to acheive that sprint in as little as 7.1s, with plenty of video’s showing people with specialist timing gear. Hyundai have quoted the new model being 0.3s quicker however it is important to stress, this matters little in the real world of PHEV ownership.

            Equally Hyundai have always shared the exact powertrain between the Tucson & Santa Fe. The 2024 Santa Fe is no different, having the same 1.6 160hp (180hp previous) engine combined with a 13.8kW battery producing an upgraded 72kW (66.9kW previvios) electric motor, with a combined 253hp 367Nm Torque. For some reason Hyundai have quoted the torque of the electric motor only on the Tucson, which is wildly perceived to be an error. The refresh is certainly as lively as the previos on but, again non of this really matters in the real world.

            Ive been very vocal about the interiors of modern VW’s and the Tiguan is no exception. The over use of Piano black across the dash perceive’s cheap and is surely to be a fingerprint and dust magnet. The use of hard plastic topping the rear door cars is inexusable from the likes of VW. The drivers cocpit closely resmbles that on the Mokka and they forgot to pick up the button remote for the TV from Curry’s😂 The Tucson on the otherhand I believe has the much classy looking interior with minimal use of piano black this time round and thankfully many buttons from the button remote VW forgot to pick up, nor will you be wanting any expensive options, not even Everest double glazing!

            I much prefered the shape of the outgoing Tiguan and always thought it looked classy, where as the new one looks a little too soft around the edge’s and its the same for the R Line. I understad VW are chasing coefficient drag but, never the less, I think they could have done differently. The Tucson to has recieved some coosmetic changes on the outside, which now feature larger air ducts snd active air flaps, to improve coefficiency. the front and rear bumpers are also designed differently, as are the parametric DRL’s. Overall it has much more muscler look than the Tiguan. The “oregami” lines on the side can be very much subdued by picking choosing the colour wisely.

            Beauty and all that is in the eyes of the beholder however, Hyundai and VW are much more closer together than before, with neither in BMW class. Whichever one chooses I think will be happy in every day life, along with economical running costs as long as you plug in.

            Ive had mine about a month now and find the road manners over our less than perfect roads superior to my previous Tucson ICE, that use to be fidgety and crash over potholes, the cabin is much quiter to, which I put down to the acoustic glass and better insulation materials. Overall I’m pleased with my choice without spending stupid amounts on AP. Over the month Ive had it, its taken my daughter to school and back and down the M4 to the city, for what it would cost over 10 days in the Tucson ICE and thats on a standard electricty tariff. The power is plentyful and overtaking is done with ease. The GOM is reporting 899mpg but I take that with a pinch of salt and is down to plugging in. More acurately is 50.4mpg when I visited my parents in hybrid mode.

            Today I learn’t something new. pressing the mute button silences the ISLA for that journey. This time round, Hyundai has allowed more control over the driver assist settings which are easy to find. Believe me silence is golden compared to my previous one! So yes I’m happy for now anyway and over the lease it should work out far cheaper than the £3995 FHEV.

             

             

            #284668
            Rene
            Participant

              Thanks @Rene That does indeed make a lot of sense to me. Most of our local journeys are around 30 miles round trip maximum, albeit a lot of that is motorway. On that basis, the electric only range on the Tucson should be just about sufficient to run in EV mode for the majority (if not all) of the trip, whereas the Tiguan’s extra capacity could be superfluous. I’ve never driven a PHEV, so I don’t know whether I would prefer to drive in EV mode as far as I can from the off, or whether I’d just leave it in auto (hybrid) mode and let the car decide when to use the battery and when to use the engine. Am I correct in thinking that it’s much cheaper to do the former, even though I’m on a standard electric tariff? I don’t intend to fit a charger, so would be charging via a 3-pin plug as there is always time to do that between journeys, and I can do this under cover in our garage.

              You don’t leave it in auto/hybrid, you need to put it into that. By default, the car (at least the Tiguan, not sure about Tucson) is always in EV mode as long as the battery allows for it (or you put your foot through the floor, at which point the engine also kicks in – there’s a button behind the pedal that gives the signal).

              It would certainly be cheaper to drive electrically even on a standard tariff, as long as you don’t charge it at public chargers (which is nonsensical for a PHEV).

              In regards to what you’d prefer.. I’m driving a “lukewarm hatch”, and i much prefer driving it electric, despite being nominally weaker in terms of bhp compared to ICE or hybrid mode. Again, it boils down to what you need. I love engine noise as much as the next gearhead, but that’s for engines that actually sound good, not some generic four-pot. So i personally much prefer driving in silence, and without vibrations whatsoever.

              In terms of acceleration, the electromotor does all the work. From 0-30mph, it pulls like a freight train. It gets more asthmatic higher up, but higher up is where the petrol engine lives, built to run 70mph all day long on the motorway. Torque just wins.

              If i do journeys that reach the “outer edge” of my range, i tend to kick the petrol engine in every now and then. For our weekly shop, as an example, there’s a long, stretched steep hill on the way home. Downhill i’ll regenerate around a mile and a half of range, uphill we lose around 8 miles range for 2 miles of distance (steep hill, and 70). The usual sequence is, at around a mile before the hill, i pull the gear lever to put the car in “sport” (which sharpens a few things, but also puts the car in “hybrid” mode), give it a blast of throttle to kick the engine in, push it up the hill, and then pull the leaver again to put  it back in normal (which re-activates E-mode, too). I turn the engine on a mile prior to get some heat in it before i stomp on it, it isn’t actually required – i specifically asked whether or not it’s required to do so since revving from a cold engine can’t be healthy, and apparently it’s not. I just don’t feel comfy revving to 7000rpm from stone cold. It’ll stay running continuously until it’s at operating temperature, usually at the top of the hill, so back to E it goes there.

              As mentioned, this “system”, allows for around 1500 miles of range in a car with a 35l tank.

              14.7kwh/100km, as a sidenote, is 4.2 miles per kwh. There were a few motorway journeys in there, too – as well as a bit of hooning. Back then, we didn’t have the 20mph limit either, so i might actually get further now as well (20mph is where the e-motor is most efficient, at least i’ve read that somewhere).

              Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
              Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

              #284655
              djenson
              Participant

                SUV PHEV’s typically achieve 2-3 Miles/kWh assuming 24p standard tariff your looking at 10p/mile

                If using an EV tariff such as Octopus Go where offpeak is 8.5p, then cost is 3.5p/mile

                If using in a hybrid mode, it is highly dependent on the driving you are are doing. typically PHEV’s tend to start engines around 35MPH

                Assuming driving is mostly above that 35MPH, MPG can typically be around 40-45. Interestingly, I experience minimal battery drain doing these sort of stretch’s, so ill ignore that cost.

                assuming petrol @ 145p/litre and 45 MPG, expect around 14p/mile

                As you can see, unless you are using an EV tariff, there is very little point to a PHEV in my experience.

                #284673
                Glos Guy
                Participant

                  @kezo and @Rene Thank you both for sharing such detailed explanations and filling in some of my knowledge gaps. Much appreciated. Clearly driving a PHEV is a different experience and mindset to driving an ICE car, but one that I am sure I would adapt to, as you both have.

                  One thing that crossed my mind is driving in the winter when it’s really cold. In order to warm up the interior of the car, does the petrol engine have to start, meaning that you couldn’t do complete journeys in EV only mode unless you were happy just having the heated seats and steering wheel on? During the coldest months I’d prefer (and my wife certainly would prefer) to have some warm air circulating as well.


                  @djenson
                  I get the points that you are making. My current 2.0i petrol BMW is very fuel efficient, averaging 42 mpg, and petrol in our village is currently £1.409 per litre, which means that the car is currently costing me around 15p per mile to run. Running costs aren’t a major factor for me, so as long as any new car doesn’t cost significantly more then I’m not too worried but, based on kezo and Rene’s feedback, it sounds as though it might cost me less, even on my standard electricity tariff. I know that PHEVs were created with the company car driver in mind, as it was a dodge to achieve significantly lower benefit in kind tax and, apparently, most company car drivers with PHEVs never charge them! Also, the much higher acquisition costs rarely make them sensible for private buyers. However, as Motability customers we can get them for a modest premium over an ICE car and, as kezo has explained, the maths can work out in our favour on that basis.

                  I’ve had four BEVs on multi day test drives now and, as a result, know that they aren’t for me yet. The range, which wasn’t good to start with even on a full charge, was dropping considerably faster than the mileage I was actually doing, and we still do enough longer journeys for that to become a pain. I’d rather suffer much higher running costs and never have any range or charging issues. PHEVs could be a ‘best of both worlds’ for me. There aren’t any cars on Motability these days with such quiet, refined and economical engines as my 2.0i BMW (which really is whisper quiet, extremely rapid when you want it to be, yet very economical). Therefore, faced with a more ‘strained’ petrol engine or a car that can intersperse that with the quieter attributes of EV running (albeit with less power) may suit our driving pattern, whilst never presenting us with range and charging issues on long journeys. I stress that I haven’t driven one yet, so all this theory may come crashing down once I have, but I’m currently leaning that way in the absence of anything better.

                   

                  #284678
                  Oscarmax
                  Participant

                    Our average over the past 10 months equivalent to 135.4 mpg that includes electric, Suzuki Across PHEV, hope that helps.

                    #284684
                    Rene
                    Participant

                      @kezo and @Rene Thank you both for sharing such detailed explanations and filling in some of my knowledge gaps. Much appreciated. Clearly driving a PHEV is a different experience and mindset to driving an ICE car, but one that I am sure I would adapt to, as you both have. One thing that crossed my mind is driving in the winter when it’s really cold. In order to warm up the interior of the car, does the petrol engine have to start, meaning that you couldn’t do complete journeys in EV only mode unless you were happy just having the heated seats and steering wheel on? During the coldest months I’d prefer (and my wife certainly would prefer) to have some warm air circulating as well.

                      It is a bit different, both in mindset and “skillset”. It’s not that you consciously adapt either, it’s something that happens over time and “just makes sense”, if that makes sense. I personally do indeed enjoy it.

                      The engine does not need to be running to run the heating, although that said, we (as you mentioned) get away with turning the seats and steering wheel on for short journeys, longer journeys require heating due to the windows  fogging up. Generally speaking, heating in the GTE takes around 20%ish off the range, if that helps. I assume it’s somewhat similar in the Tiguan that has a very similar drivetrain, i can’t speak to the Tucson but i don’t see why it would be any different. Kezo might be able to input more there.

                      edit: that’s in a car without heatpump. With heatpump, the impact is less, albeit not by as much as manufacturers would argue it does. It helps, but it very much would depend for me whether or not the heatpump is included as standard – if it’s £1000 extra, you won’t make that money back over the time of ownership in terms of fuel/energy saved.

                       

                      Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
                      Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

                      #284686
                      kezo
                      Participant

                        SUV PHEV’s typically achieve 2-3 Miles/kWh assuming 24p standard tariff your looking at 10p/mile If using an EV tariff such as Octopus Go where offpeak is 8.5p, then cost is 3.5p/mile If using in a hybrid mode, it is highly dependent on the driving you are are doing. typically PHEV’s tend to start engines around 35MPH Assuming driving is mostly above that 35MPH, MPG can typically be around 40-45. Interestingly, I experience minimal battery drain doing these sort of stretch’s, so ill ignore that cost. assuming petrol @ 145p/litre and 45 MPG, expect around 14p/mile As you can see, unless you are using an EV tariff, there is very little point to a PHEV in my experience.

                        I’m predominantly driving electric throughout the week acheiving 34 miles easily. To acheive those 34 miles is working out at 7.9p amile on a standard electrictiy tariff, which is less than half what it was previously costing with my Tucson ICE. Based on an “average” of all the EV tariffs, it would work out an average of 2.8p a mile depending on the tariff chosen. However, I’m undecided whether to choose an EV tariff because, (a) my smart meter is dumb and I’d probably like it to stay like that (b) EV tariffs tend to increase the peak rate to help offset the off peak rate and as an electrician, I do not think its wise/safe to run the washing machine/tumble dryer when a sleep. My calculations can be seen in the facilifted Tuscon thread.

                        I don’t know what PHEV you drive but, aslong as I keep eco meter just below the halfway mark in the power section mine will happily accelerate in electric. if I floor it the engine will kick in and switch to hybrid driving. Coming home from taking my daughter to school I turn onto a 60mph straight stretch of road, I can easily accelerate up to 65mph following the traffic, once at that speed the eco meter guage thing settles down at around 75% mark in the eco range and it will happily stay in electric, as long as there is enough battery power.

                        A recent 400 mile round trip visiting my parents, I acheived 50.4mpg. I started with a fully battery and didn’t recharge untill I got back home on the Sunday afternoon. Another user on the forum (johntheleg) is getting better mpg than me on a run.

                         

                        #284692
                        kezo
                        Participant

                          @kezo and @Rene Thank you both for sharing such detailed explanations and filling in some of my knowledge gaps. Much appreciated. Clearly driving a PHEV is a different experience and mindset to driving an ICE car, but one that I am sure I would adapt to, as you both have. One thing that crossed my mind is driving in the winter when it’s really cold. In order to warm up the interior of the car, does the petrol engine have to start, meaning that you couldn’t do complete journeys in EV only mode unless you were happy just having the heated seats and steering wheel on? During the coldest months I’d prefer (and my wife certainly would prefer) to have some warm air circulating as well.

                          It is a bit different, both in mindset and “skillset”. It’s not that you consciously adapt either, it’s something that happens over time and “just makes sense”, if that makes sense. I personally do indeed enjoy it. The engine does not need to be running to run the heating, although that said, we (as you mentioned) get away with turning the seats and steering wheel on for short journeys, longer journeys require heating due to the windows fogging up. Generally speaking, heating in the GTE takes around 20%ish off the range, if that helps. I assume it’s somewhat similar in the Tiguan that has a very similar drivetrain, i can’t speak to the Tucson but i don’t see why it would be any different. Kezo might be able to input more there. edit: that’s in a car without heatpump. With heatpump, the impact is less, albeit not by as much as manufacturers would argue it does. It helps, but it very much would depend for me whether or not the heatpump is included as standard – if it’s £1000 extra, you won’t make that money back over the time of ownership in terms of fuel/energy saved.

                          100% agree Rene, when he says it’s a bit different in both mindset and skillset but, it becomes natural over time and you soon adapt driving one. The part that is alien to me, is the flappy paddles for regen levels that double up as gear changes in sport mode, that I have used once but, find no reason to use it again, as it unnecessarily starts the engine and drives as a hybrid. I did however, experiment with the regen levels on level three and one pedal driving Mon/Tues of this week which upped the range to just under 38 miles. However, its not something as I can see myself taking to but, time will tell. At the moment I’m happy with regen off, which it default to on every restart and let coasting add a touch of regen, which you can’t feel or level 1.

                          Agree with Rene the engine doen’t need to be on for heating, though it depends what tempertature you set (I have Raynauds). The seats and steering wheel however, get far warmer than my previos 2022 Tucson ICE. On the other end of the scale I must mention the ventillated seats, which are awesome. No more sweaty balls😂

                          Its not like heating an ICE! Where the Tucson is concerned there is a bypass valve that sends coolant around the exhaust in the engine bay. The coolant is the heated quickly with the engine running at slightly higer rev’s than on tickover. After a couple of minutes or so, the engine turns off once the coolant is heated to provide heat demand. The engine restarts again after a while to maintain the cabin temperature or you demand an higher cabin temperature if that makes sense. Predominantly the car is still running in EV mode even though the light goes out, as the engine is only running at low revs for heat, unless of course you are driving as a hybrid. Some on the relevant forums suggest forcing it into ev mode to get the initial cabin temperature and then putting it back into auto or ev mode however I must stress there is a mixture of countries on the Hyundai forums, with some in much colder climates than the UK and I have not needed to do this yet anyway. I’m still learning. I image the Golf GTE works on a similar principle.

                          Using AC to cool the cabin on the few warm days we have had, I have found it uses the battery in the main, as the demand is alot less energy hungry than demanding heat.

                          Rene is 100% correct with whats said on heatpumps and if one is not standard fit, it is uneconomical to pay for one as an option. FWIW the RAV4/Across has a small heatpump as standard but, very few PHEV’s do.

                          Going back to Rene’s previous comment where the car starts of in ev mode and predominantly stays there untill you run out of battery or demand too much power where the engine will kick in and run as an hybrid. This is exactly what the Tucson does in ev mode however, the default mode is auto, which in all fairness does exactly the same as ev mode does. The other option is HEV mode which seems to hold the battery at whatever charge it was when you started, whils’t driving in hybrid mode. Going back to the Hyundai forums there is the possibility when in auto mode and the the battery has reached 12% switching then to hybrid mode, by pressing ev mode the car will drive a bit further in electric than it would otherwise would in hybrid mode. I have not tried this because (a) it seems a faf to gain an extra few hundred yards in electric than would be the case in hybrid and (b) the system has got to be in a state to do this. Unless you are a hypermiler I don’t see the point and its much easier to let the car drive in what it wants.

                          Sport mode speaks for its self, using full power of both systems.

                           

                           

                          #284695
                          Oscarmax
                          Participant

                            Towing back from the New Forest 1500 kg caravan

                            #284705
                            kezo
                            Participant

                              Towing back from the New Forest 1500 kg caravan

                              Excellent results towing mate.

                              #284709
                              Oscarmax
                              Participant

                                SUV PHEV’s typically achieve 2-3 Miles/kWh assuming 24p standard tariff your looking at 10p/mile If using an EV tariff such as Octopus Go where offpeak is 8.5p, then cost is 3.5p/mile If using in a hybrid mode, it is highly dependent on the driving you are are doing. typically PHEV’s tend to start engines around 35MPH Assuming driving is mostly above that 35MPH, MPG can typically be around 40-45. Interestingly, I experience minimal battery drain doing these sort of stretch’s, so ill ignore that cost. assuming petrol @ 145p/litre and 45 MPG, expect around 14p/mile As you can see, unless you are using an EV tariff, there is very little point to a PHEV in my experience.

                                I’m predominantly driving electric throughout the week acheiving 34 miles easily. To acheive those 34 miles is working out at 7.9p amile on a standard electrictiy tariff, which is less than half what it was previously costing with my Tucson ICE. Based on an “average” of all the EV tariffs, it would work out an average of 2.8p a mile depending on the tariff chosen. However, I’m undecided whether to choose an EV tariff because, (a) my smart meter is dumb and I’d probably like it to stay like that (b) EV tariffs tend to increase the peak rate to help offset the off peak rate and as an electrician, I do not think its wise/safe to run the washing machine/tumble dryer when a sleep. My calculations can be seen in the facilifted Tuscon thread. I don’t know what PHEV you drive but, aslong as I keep eco meter just below the halfway mark in the power section mine will happily accelerate in electric. if I floor it the engine will kick in and switch to hybrid driving. Coming home from taking my daughter to school I turn onto a 60mph straight stretch of road, I can easily accelerate up to 65mph following the traffic, once at that speed the eco meter guage thing settles down at around 75% mark in the eco range and it will happily stay in electric, as long as there is enough battery power. A recent 400 mile round trip visiting my parents, I acheived 50.4mpg. I started with a fully battery and didn’t recharge untill I got back home on the Sunday afternoon. Another user on the forum (johntheleg) is getting better mpg than me on a run.

                                50 mpg seems about right on a decent run, in local runs around the New Forest with its 40 mph advisory speed restriction on holiday we were see nearly 60 mpg in hybrid only mode, however this is the exception, 50 mph seems about spot on for a 2 tonne SUV.

                                We do not run the washing machine or tumble dryer at night or when we are out for the day even when it is negative rate.

                                • This reply was modified 6 days, 14 hours ago by Oscarmax.
                                #284711
                                Rene
                                Participant

                                  We do not run the washing machine or tumble dryer at night or when we are out for the day even when it is negative rate.

                                  We do. But, in fairness, i’m awake anyway. So for us, the washing machine/tumble don’t run when we sleep – but certainly do run at night.

                                  Its not like heating an ICE! Where the Tucson is concerned there is a bypass valve that sends coolant around the exhaust in the engine bay. The coolant is the heated quickly with the engine running at slightly higer rev’s than on tickover. After a couple of minutes or so, the engine turns off once the coolant is heated to provide heat demand. The engine restarts again after a while to maintain the cabin temperature or you demand an higher cabin temperature if that makes sense. Predominantly the car is still running in EV mode even though the light goes out, as the engine is only running at low revs for heat, unless of course you are driving as a hybrid. Some on the relevant forums suggest forcing it into ev mode to get the initial cabin temperature and then putting it back into auto or ev mode however I must stress there is a mixture of countries on the Hyundai forums, with some in much colder climates than the UK and I have not needed to do this yet anyway. I’m still learning. I image the Golf GTE works on a similar principle.

                                  I am genuinely not quite sure. Heating in the GTE works purely electric, so i’d assume resistive heating.

                                  My guess is that the Tucson has that too. The reason for that is, i’m pretty sure (albeit not 100% certain) that you can preheat/precool the car (which is btw another feature in a car that i never want to live without again – going outside in winter into a nice 23 degree warm car, windows all clear, lovely) through the app, like we can (and do) do with the GTE.

                                  When the engine is running/hot, then it uses that, but it doesn’t force the engine for heating. It does force the engine for cooling, on the other hand – that seems to “eat” more miles than heating, also suggested by the fact that we can heat the car through the app while it’s not plugged in – we can’t cool it, though. For that it needs to be plugged in.

                                  Make of that what you will, as i said i have zero clue as to how the Tucson system works, but assuming that you have an app that allows preheating, you’d also have to have resistive heating in the car (since, i’m somewhat sure, it won’t start the engine while plugged in, for example). That’s just assumption though.

                                  Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
                                  Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

                                  #284712
                                  kezo
                                  Participant

                                    We do not run the washing machine or tumble dryer at night or when we are out for the day even when it is negative rate.

                                    Pleased to hear that, though its not something I would have expected you to do anyway. The fire sevice have issued numerous warnings, then the other hand, without a care energy companys are saying to switch to off peak periods.

                                     

                                    #284713
                                    Oscarmax
                                    Participant

                                      We do not run the washing machine or tumble dryer at night or when we are out for the day even when it is negative rate.

                                      We do. But, in fairness, i’m awake anyway. So for us, the washing machine/tumble don’t run when we sleep – but certainly do run at night.

                                      Its not like heating an ICE! Where the Tucson is concerned there is a bypass valve that sends coolant around the exhaust in the engine bay. The coolant is the heated quickly with the engine running at slightly higer rev’s than on tickover. After a couple of minutes or so, the engine turns off once the coolant is heated to provide heat demand. The engine restarts again after a while to maintain the cabin temperature or you demand an higher cabin temperature if that makes sense. Predominantly the car is still running in EV mode even though the light goes out, as the engine is only running at low revs for heat, unless of course you are driving as a hybrid. Some on the relevant forums suggest forcing it into ev mode to get the initial cabin temperature and then putting it back into auto or ev mode however I must stress there is a mixture of countries on the Hyundai forums, with some in much colder climates than the UK and I have not needed to do this yet anyway. I’m still learning. I image the Golf GTE works on a similar principle.

                                      I am genuinely not quite sure. Heating in the GTE works purely electric, so i’d assume resistive heating. My guess is that the Tucson has that too. The reason for that is, i’m pretty sure (albeit not 100% certain) that you can preheat/precool the car (which is btw another feature in a car that i never want to live without again – going outside in winter into a nice 23 degree warm car, windows all clear, lovely) through the app, like we can (and do) do with the GTE. When the engine is running/hot, then it uses that, but it doesn’t force the engine for heating. It does force the engine for cooling, on the other hand – that seems to “eat” more miles than heating, also suggested by the fact that we can heat the car through the app while it’s not plugged in – we can’t cool it, though. For that it needs to be plugged in. Make of that what you will, as i said i have zero clue as to how the Tucson system works, but assuming that you have an app that allows preheating, you’d also have to have resistive heating in the car (since, i’m somewhat sure, it won’t start the engine while plugged in, for example). That’s just assumption though.

                                      Unfortunately all these PHEV are similar and dissimilar between brands, our previous Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV ICE used an Otto and Atkinson variable valve timing running through a GKN CVT type transmission.  Our current Suzuki Across/RAV4 ICE use an Atkinson cycle and a eCVT.

                                      In simple terms your GTE use a conventional ICE Otto cycle and and electric motor in the transmission, not sure about Kezo new car all PHEV but all different.

                                      #284714
                                      Glos Guy
                                      Participant

                                        Our average over the past 10 months equivalent to 135.4 mpg that includes electric, Suzuki Across PHEV, hope that helps.

                                        I’m not sure that it does help tbh, but that might be down to me not understanding what you are saying 😂 The reason that I say that is that when people quote MPG figures of their PHEVs it’s only part of the picture, as you have to factor in charging costs as well for the running costs to be at all meaningful. When you say that the 135.4 mpg includes electric, do you mean that if you factor in the charging costs and if you equate that cost to added petrol then it still comes out at 135.4 mpg? If so, that’s amazing!

                                        #284715
                                        JohntheLeg
                                        Participant

                                          My pre facelifted Tucson Ultimate Phev is unable to pre-heat  or cool the car via the Bluelink App as it is greyed out. The only way I can pre-heat the car is by using the remote start via the key fob which means you have to be near the car. It was switched on to use in the USA but not the UK.  I don’t know if the facelifted  version has been updated. Have you tried the Bluelink App to see if your Tucson Phev can pre-heat or cool the car @Kezo

                                          #284717
                                          Rene
                                          Participant

                                            My pre facelifted Tucson Ultimate Phev is unable to pre-heat or cool the car via the Bluelink App as it is greyed out. The only way I can pre-heat the car is by using the remote start via the key fob which means you have to be near the car. It was switched on to use in the USA but not the UK. I don’t know if the facelifted version has been updated. Have you tried the Bluelink App to see if your Tucson Phev can pre-heat or cool the car @Kezo

                                            That genuinely surprises me. I thought all PHEV were able to do so.

                                            So there’s a potential upside to the Tiguan that certainly would carry “an amount” of weight for me. I got so used to preheating the car (as Kezo, my wife suffers from Raynauds so in winter, the car has to be warm) that i wouldn’t want to do without anymore. Much less miserable getting into a warm cozy car already fully defrosted than a cold and damp one at 6 in the morning in winter, then either scratch windows or wait until they’re finally free.

                                            The Tiguan, like the GTE, is pre-heatable/pre-coolable through the VW app, from anywhere. When we visit the cinemas in winter, i can (and have) preheat the car when the credits show, takes around 3-5 minutes to get to 23 degrees in winter.

                                            Proper surprised by that. Actually considered this one of the major advantages that all plug in cars (be it PHEV or BEV) have, but appears that i was mistaken there. You’ll never stop learning.

                                            Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
                                            Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

                                            #284721
                                            kezo
                                            Participant

                                              In response to an earlier post, the above picture shows mrs kezo taking a pic as we were heading to collect daughter from school. I planned of taking it to 70+ but there was a wagon turning into the quarry up ahead. Anyway shows us travelling up a slight gradiant, showing it will easily acheive 60mph in electric whils’t still being just over halfway in the eco area. How you get there is irrelevant as long as you don’t go to halfway in the powerband it will stay in electric, aslong as you have sufficient battery to do so. However building up speed at a steady pace/keeping up with traffic is better for range than pushing your foot hard n the go pedal. I’ll see what traffic is like tomorrow and perhaps I’ll take to over 70, showing it still in electric. How far it will go at higher speeds especially 70/8 I honestly don’t know.


                                              @Glos-Guy
                                              to the bottom right of “EV” you can where I have put it in level 1 regen, so you can see however default is off or 3 regen levels or hold the – paddle and it goes into near one one pedal driving or puts it in stop mode, if autohold is left switched off. I hower find the regen unnatural.

                                              The Tucson gives you either mpg or mpg/kwh, Currently I’m using just mpg and reseting the display everytime I recharge to get an easy understanding of electric range. Unfortunately I knocked the display off when the photo was being taken but, happy to put them all up.

                                              Rene I have no idea mate, Im learning as I go along and not even got the manual out yet. Yes there is an app you can download but, up to yet I haven’t bothered, as I tend to just get in a car and drive it these days 🙂

                                               

                                              #284723
                                              djenson
                                              Participant

                                                Towing back from the New Forest 1500 kg caravan

                                                2.2Mile/kWh for 180miles, so thats 81kWh’s used, in a PHEV! How long were you charging for! That’s like 4 full battery’s worth! fair play for doing it.

                                                #284728
                                                kezo
                                                Participant

                                                  I don’t know if the facelifted  version has been updated. Have you tried the Bluelink App to see if your Tucson Phev can pre-heat or cool the car @Kezo

                                                  As explained to Rene I honestly don’t know, as I haven’t read the manual coming from a Tucson or have I downloaded the app. Rather just gave insight to how your model heated and asumed the same.

                                                  In all fairness I’m suprised a PHEV has a coefficient heater given how tiny the batteries are in comparison to BEV’s and with winter being hard enough on the battery, zapping another 4 or 5kW out of it preheating, will surely put into hybrid mode sooner, than having the engine on high tick over to keep the heat topped up every now and again, especially if your journey is anymore than local and you want to prioritise electric range for as long as possible. Catch 22 whether it is a benifit or not!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  #284742
                                                  Rene
                                                  Participant

                                                    I mean, yeah. Anything taking juice will put it into hybrid mode sooner.

                                                    That said, i very much don’t think that it’s 4-5kw. In winter with the heating going, the range drops by around 7 miles (from 39 to 32 on full charge), a preheat for 5 minutes takes around 3-5 miles. Maybe if you heat to 25 degrees, but not to 22-23 where we set it at.

                                                    I actually am pretty certain about this since you can preheat the Golf on the granny charger (it’s not bypassing the battery, it’s topping it up as fast as you use it) – but only up to 22 degrees. A VW granny charger delivers 2.2kw, so it has to be somewhere around that number.

                                                    If the journey is anything more than local i preheat while the car is plugged in anyway, so it does have zero impact. If i need to extend by a little (one hospital is 36 miles round trip) and feel particularly tight, we stop the heating half way on the return trip and only use the seats and wheel to heat (or sustain, rather) the interior. That’s pretty rare though. Generally, i just spend the 50p in petrol to get home, or drive in hybrid on the most strenuous part of the journey (uphills, 70 zones etc).

                                                    I will say, i don’t think that in your example, with the engine running every now and then to sustain heat, rather than just driving the last 3-4 miles on the engine itself makes a big difference in consumption. Particularly if we take into account that, if the engine in your car is running for the heating at a red traffic light, it will also use it to accelerate “while it’s at it”.

                                                    But, yeah. Our electric journeys are 100% electric in winter. No petrol engine required. Which also has the advantage (and we noticed that very quickly) that the car basically instantly blows warm air, from cold.

                                                    Here’s some info on how this all works, including a diagram for the high/low temp circuits, the part about auxiliary heating etc. That’s for the MQB platform, doesn’t apply to the Tucson (but both our GTE and Tiguan). A few things have been facelifted (battery size, engine size for the Tiguan etc), but the concept still applies.

                                                    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/04/20140403-mqbphev.html

                                                    Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
                                                    Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

                                                    #284746
                                                    Oscarmax
                                                    Participant

                                                      Our average over the past 10 months equivalent to 135.4 mpg that includes electric, Suzuki Across PHEV, hope that helps.

                                                      I’m not sure that it does help tbh, but that might be down to me not understanding what you are saying 😂 The reason that I say that is that when people quote MPG figures of their PHEVs it’s only part of the picture, as you have to factor in charging costs as well for the running costs to be at all meaningful. When you say that the 135.4 mpg includes electric, do you mean that if you factor in the charging costs and if you equate that cost to added petrol then it still comes out at 135.4 mpg? If so, that’s amazing!

                                                      I always factor in the electric cost, if you do not factor in the electric cost it is very misleading. We had a Ford Kuga 2 litre 150 poweshift diesel on the scheme it was as economical as our previous 2 litre diesel vehicles, when we changed to the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV our average mpg (factoring electric) dropped dramatically, however we were charging up off peak @ 5 pence kWh and Tesco PodPoints we free. When we changed to the Suzuki Across/RAV4 the market had changed energy prices had increased and we no longer had free charging at Tesco (44p kWh) of off peak 5p kWh, we are now on Octopus Agile which tracks the market prices. So yes the fuel consumption for the Suzuki Across is amazing on a warm day on local journeys 60/62 on a 14.1 kWh charge, on longer journeys 50/55 miles and in the winter 45/46, Toyota/Suzuki state 46 miles.

                                                      On a run these PHEV can easily achieve 50 mpg, or in our case 37 mpg towing a 1500kg caravan.

                                                      #284747
                                                      Glos Guy
                                                      Participant

                                                        Thanks @Oscarmax Would you mind explaining (for my simple brain) how you feed the cost of charging into your stated mpg figures? Presumably the mpg figures on the instrument cluster are for the petrol consumption only over the mileage driven? The cost of charging the car is going to be a £ / miles per kWh figure, so how do you marry those two very different things together in order to calculate an ICE equivalent mpg figure that includes the cost of charging?

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