Mercedes A250e

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  • #145148 Reply
    Jamie

    Hey Everyone,

    Was just wondering if anyone had gone ahead and ordered the A250e?

    I know the AP is quite high but the proclaimed ‘250mpg’ is quite attractive no? Even if you got half of that then surely you would be saving money on fuel in the long run?

    Let me know what you guys think

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 59 total)
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  • #145156 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    It’s like any other plug-in hybrid Jamie.  The official fuel consumption is nonsense and what you will achieve depends entirely on how you use it. If you never do more than 25 miles a day and charge up every night, you can have 5000 mpg because you never have to start the engine. If you mostly drive long distances you will get worse fuel consumption than the regular petrol engine version because of all the extra weight you’re hauling around.   Most people will get something in between!

     

    #145160 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    Hey Everyone, Was just wondering if anyone had gone ahead and ordered the A250e? I know the AP is quite high but the proclaimed ‘250mpg’ is quite attractive no? Even if you got half of that then surely you would be saving money on fuel in the long run? Let me know what you guys think

    Take the manufactures figures with a pinch of salt, like Wigwam has stated unless you do 25  or so miles a day and can can charge up at home. We have a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on the Motability scheme fortunately we meet all the criteria and are the ideal customer, we tow a caravan so a full EV was out of the question.

    At the time of the lease our PHEV AP was only £1699, if it had been £2999 as per last quarter 1, financially we would have better of with a diesel, the Mercedes A250e AP at £5000 + financially does not make sense, you would be far better of with the petrol version.

    If you chose to go down the PHEV the AP on the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is quite attractive, but it is what is is a heavy SUV, so don’t expect sportscar performance.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #145185 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    I was quite keen on the idea of a PHEV, but I did a lot of research and, as others have said, the quoted figures, both for mpg and bhp, are highly misleading. The first thing to keep in mind is that, as a rule of thumb, the ‘all electric’ range is usually only around two-thirds to three-quarters of what is quoted. This was fairly common in most reviews of different PHEV’s and, as one reviewer said “accept that from the outset or you will be disappointed”. The electric range is also dependent upon charging the car fully after every use and switching the car into EV only mode (or equivalent) as the default is the EV auto mode which switches between electric and petrol depending on demand. In real world driving, the achieved mpg is significantly less than quoted as the electric range is so short. Most manufacturers quote mpg for PHEV’s of around 150-200 mpg, yet road tests seem to point to realistic figures of up to around 65 mpg, so you need to do the maths to work out if you will save money based on that sort of mpg and your annual mileage versus the very high AP’s. Also, keep in mind that electric isn’t free!

    The next issue is that people get excited about the quoted bhp (power) figures but, yet again, these are misleading as they are the combined total of two separate engines that don’t always operate together. To take an example, if a PHEV is quoted as 250bhp, it may  have a 150bhp petrol engine plus a 100bhp electric one. This means that if your aim is to minimise running costs and run almost exclusively on electric power for short journeys, you are driving a 100bhp car and not a 250bhp one. PHEV’s are also much heavier than their petrol / diesel equivalents, so power to weight ratio goes against them. Secondly, on longer journeys, when you run out of electric, you are driving a 150bhp petrol engine, yet lugging around a very heavy car, so performance and economy will be worse than a conventionally fuelled 1.5 litre car. The sweet spot is when you have a charged battery and it operates in unison with the petrol engine but, unlike a petrol or diesel car (where the quoted power output is available 100% of the time) you only get this in certain circumstances. If you keep the car fully charged and leave it in EV auto, you will get this performance most of the time but then, of course, you are using petrol so will get the more realistic mpg. Basically, you can’t have both!

    PHEV’s are very popular with company car drivers, due to the much lower company car tax, but apparently many of these drivers never plug them in and run them solely on the petrol engines plus regenerative electricity. It’s basically a tax dodge. The reviews acknowledge this and also state that PHEV’s rarely stack up as a private purchase, as the extra purchase cost is more than you would save through lower running costs. As a Motability customer you have to do the maths, based upon realistic (not quoted) mpg, what your normal journeys are and how easy it is for you to fully charge after every use. And if you intend to run on almost exclusively electric power, keep in mind that you are not driving a particularly powerful car, unlike a full EV where the quoted bhp is available all of the time.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Glos Guy.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Glos Guy.
    #145195 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    A very comprehensive summation Glos Guy.

    Looking at it from a pence/mile basis, it must be remembered electricity to charge a PHEV isn’t free (except if you spend half your day in Tesco’s).  I calculated for one car running on electric would cost 6.5 per mile (assumed daily charging from home) against 14p per mile using petrol.  Estimating the proportion of miles in a year spent working within the battery’s range and outside of it gives some idea of the savings which might be made.  If you can’t charge at home or at work a PHEV isn’t a practical proposition as most are very slow chargers.

    On the positive side a PHEV gives quiet running on battery around town and with home charging, the car can be preconditioned –  warmed up and windows defrosted in winter and cooled in summer before leaving the house.  If you do a lot of daily short journeys that’s a real gain.

    #145196 Reply
    Richard

    As already stated essentially unless 90% of your journeys are 20 miles return or less a PHEV won’t do you any good. They sound all cheap to run & good for the environment etc but when you look at it they’re really a bit of a white elephant, that’s not to say a waste of time for all but you have to be very careful not to get suckered in.

    I think the vast majority would be better off with a standard good economy ice esp for occasional towing.

    Good luck with your choice

    PS EVs can tow technically & physically but manufacturers just don’t rate them for it, lots in Australia use them for towing due to their boars, jet skis etc

    #145199 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Surprisingly Volvo rate the XC40 hybrid for towing, but that may be because they charge about £1175 for their towbar.

    #145210 Reply
    Adam

    Thanks for the input guys. I was trying to work out the mpg on a possibly the new GTD or plug in hybrid. I wont be able to have a home charger built in or charge from home from where I live so might not be convenient. I was just considering it as the whole issue of getting rid of diesels by 2030 etc. But I think ill end up sticking with the GTD for next 3 years minimum and hopefully by then the infrastructure and technology of the electric cars would have increased and become more accessible.

    #145217 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Thanks for the input guys. I was trying to work out the mpg on a possibly the new GTD or plug in hybrid. I wont be able to have a home charger built in or charge from home from where I live so might not be convenient. I was just considering it as the whole issue of getting rid of diesels by 2030 etc. But I think ill end up sticking with the GTD for next 3 years minimum and hopefully by then the infrastructure and technology of the electric cars would have increased and become more accessible.

    That sounds sensible Adam. Most (if not all) PHEV’s can’t take advantage of the rapid chargers that full EV’s can, so unless you can charge overnight at home you will probably find yourself running mostly on petrol, which rather defeats the object. I was quite excited about the prospect of getting a PHEV (we have a large garage so charging overnight is easy and most of our journeys are around 30 mile round trips), but when I researched them properly I found that they have disadvantages as well. I have just ordered a petrol car (moving from diesel) with a hope that in 3 years time PHEV batteries will be lighter and have much better all electric range. Of course, when full EV’s have ranges of around 500 miles and can be fully recharged in less than 10 minutes then I will move to them! I can see the 2030 date being problematic, especially for people such as yourself who can’t charge at home. The infrastructure is moving at far too slow a pace to deal with the demand that the 2030 date is going to create.

    #145222 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    “Of course, when full EV’s have ranges of around 500 miles and can be fully recharged in less than 10 minutes then I will move to them!”

    That’ll need a major rewriting of the laws of physics then!

    #145223 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    “Of course, when full EV’s have ranges of around 500 miles and can be fully recharged in less than 10 minutes then I will move to them!” That’ll need a major rewriting of the laws of physics then!

    Not sure that 500 miles range and 10 minutes to charge is that important. The new 800v cars like the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq are capable of 10-80% charge in 18 minutes, so, well in excess of 200 miles, quick toilet break and a leg stretch and off you go. Agree the infrastructure has a long way to go, but in 3 years it will be massively better

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #145226 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    The breakthrough will come when every place you might stop off on a journey for a meal break has charging points.  Motorways are covered by existing infrastructure but away from them, the concept of concentrating fuel sales (including electricity) in one place won’t be needed.  Petrol stations receive bulk deliveries of fuel, keep it safe in storage tanks and dispense it.  We don’t need it to be that way for electricity.

    #145227 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    That’ll need a major rewriting of the laws of physics then!

    😂 I was never that good at physics Wigwam. From memory I just scraped an O level in it. Economics was more my thing (the business, not cookery, type)! In layman’s terms, what I am saying is that I look forward to to embracing an EV, but when they are as simple to use as an ICE car, namely that ‘refuelling’ them is quick and simple and we could do a touring holiday around the far flung reaches of the Scottish Highlands (as we have done) with no range anxiety issues and not having to make prolonged stops just to recharge. I find having to fill up with fuel once every 3 or 4 weeks a hassle and it only takes 5 minutes! When I read all the posts from those with EV’s it sounds like you need army style logistics planning skills and a degree in applied physics, never mind an O level. The last thing it sounds like to me is hassle free motoring. As soon as it is, I shall be delighted to embrace it.

    #145229 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    The breakthrough will come when every place you might stop off on a journey for a meal break has charging points. Motorways are covered by existing infrastructure but away from them, the concept of concentrating fuel sales (including electricity) in one place won’t be needed. Petrol stations receive bulk deliveries of fuel, keep it safe in storage tanks and dispense it. We don’t need it to be that way for electricity.

    Doubtless it will happen eventually, but I just don’t think that anyone (including governments or car manufacturers) have really got their heads around the scale of what is required. We live near the M5 motorway which is the main holiday route to Devon & Cornwall etc. On Fridays and Saturdays in the summer, the motorway service stations are all rammed with hundreds and hundreds of cars. In an all electric future, the majority of those cars will be looking to top up during that service station stop. Having 20 or 30 charging points will be woefully insufficient. They will probably need well over 100 as an absolute minimum and, even then, demand will no doubt exceed supply at times. As I say, it will happen eventually but at the rate things are going at present I just can’t see 2030 being even remotely achievable.

    #145230 Reply
    Kev

    I agree with you Glos Guy, trouble free motoring is what we need, and at the moment i don’ think it will be with an ev,watched a review on you tube the guy went to charge up on route,had to wait over half an hour to get to charger as other car there,then charged his own,stopped for an hour , no good to me petrol in in no time and away again, going to order petrol this time , hope all is better long term.

    #145234 Reply
    Richardw
    Participant

    The breakthrough will come when every place you might stop off on a journey for a meal break has charging points. Motorways are covered by existing infrastructure but away from them, the concept of concentrating fuel sales (including electricity) in one place won’t be needed. Petrol stations receive bulk deliveries of fuel, keep it safe in storage tanks and dispense it. We don’t need it to be that way for electricity.

    Doubtless it will happen eventually, but I just don’t think that anyone (including governments or car manufacturers) have really got their heads around the scale of what is required. We live near the M5 motorway which is the main holiday route to Devon & Cornwall etc. On Fridays and Saturdays in the summer, the motorway service stations are all rammed with hundreds and hundreds of cars. In an all electric future, the majority of those cars will be looking to top up during that service station stop. Having 20 or 30 charging points will be woefully insufficient. They will probably need well over 100 as an absolute minimum and, even then, demand will no doubt exceed supply at times. As I say, it will happen eventually but at the rate things are going at present I just can’t see 2030 being even remotely achievable.

    Yep, exactly that. And that’s before we start on the sparsely populated north of the country. We are a long way off what is needed to meet everyone’s requirements.

    #145239 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    Many of these issues are balancing act between positive and negative however we know petrol and diesel cars are being phased out. Perhaps a comparison is someone’s desire to have a large dining table and dining room for Christmas day only. For those able to have a home charger with overnight tariffs and the prospect of running costs some 10% of fossil fuel there will probably be an acceptance of a degree of planning for the occasional long journey.  I calculate that given my type of journeys that a gallon of petrol will give me a typical range of 33 miles. The electric equivalent is around 396. Or in £’s less than £6 electric or £70 in petrol. For most range is an issue and for me, a range of 250-300 miles would be more than sufficient. On Motability I expect that we will see an improvement in the types and numbers of vehicles available this year and, although some will have misgivings about the new technologies it is a fact of life that electric, and possibly hydrogen, are the way forward. Recharge times of 18 minutes, 10% to 80% are possible now and what is needed is a proper coordinated roll out plan to ensure proper coverage in order to allay some of the fears and misgivings which are prevalent at present, in both the motoring press and wider society.

    #145248 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I don’t see where your electric equivalent comes from fwippers.  In very rough terms a petrol car will cost 15p per mile and an electric car 5p per mile, so your £70 petrol bill is going to be replaced by a £23 electric bill, not £6. Am I missing something?

    #145250 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    I don’t see where your electric equivalent comes from fwippers. In very rough terms a petrol car will cost 15p per mile and an electric car 5p per mile, so your £70 petrol bill is going to be replaced by a £23 electric bill, not £6. Am I missing something?

    I could say the same for your figures Wigwam. So far, I’ve done 1500 miles, petrol equivalent of 283.46 mpg, 2.02p a mile and I’m relying on public chargers. Yesterday was a 400 mile trip to Wakefield, total cost was £11

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #145251 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Ok, I must be seeing things very wrong, Intranicity. How many miles do you get per kW of charge?

    #145253 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    Yesterday was cold and I was doing 70mph a lot of the time, was getting 4 miles per kW, I made use of the free 50kWh chargers in Yorkshire, but did take a bit of expensive Ecotricity energy on the motorway as needed a comfort break, they are slow and 30p a kW, recharged this morning at a local BP Pulse 50kWh charger @15p a kW, but could have got it cheaper or free if I hadn’t minded taking longer. Car needed approx 65 mins on charge in Yorkshire for the return journey

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #145254 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    Towing a 1500kg caravan with the Outlander PHEV over a 200 mile journey achieve 28.5 mpg measure brim to brim the onboard screen shows high 29mpg, our Ford Kuga 2.0 diesel powershift achieved 29/30 on the display (I never carried out a brim to brim), petrol is slightly cheaper than diesel, so there is probably nothing in it.

    Normal driving on pure petrol alone we are achieving around 37/38 mpg, the Kuga just over 40mpg, so not a lot in it.

    If we did not tow a caravan we would definitely go for a full EV for us its a no brainer, the latest EV are now achieving 300 miles and 4.7 mile a kWh, on a good day a PHEV will achieve around 2.8 miles a kWh.

    You half to accept a PHEV is really just a stop gap, EV have now taken over.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #145255 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Intranicity, I understand that you are getting your results by gaining the system and fair enough. But at 4 miles per kWh on a home charger using normal rate electricity would be costing 4p per mile.  I can’t get my head around mpg equivalents. Relying on public chargers would be up to double that cost. So the comparison with petrol I gave on the basis of pence per mile (which I said was In very tough terms in answering flippers) stands up.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by Wigwam.
    #145258 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Intranicity, I understand that you are getting your results by gaining the system and fair enough. But at 4 miles per kWh on a home charger using normal rate electricity would be costing 4p per mile. I can’t get my head around mpg equivalents.</p>

    well with a home charger you should do better than 16p kWH, infact just going to a BP Pulse charger brings it down to 15p and much quicker. You can get off peak charging for 5p kW.

    I personally think the attraction of EV is the saving, and if you have one, you try and save where you can.

    Normal driving at 60 and below has been giving me between 4.6 and 4.9 miles kW

    4p a mile x 40 miles equates to £1.60 for a car compared to a non EV doing 40mpg @ £1.26 ltr  or £5.72 for those 40 miles (14.3 mile)

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
    2021- Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE

    #145259 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    I have used 5p KWh. Overnight rates.

    #145263 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Intranicity, I understand that you are getting your results by gaining the system and fair enough. But at 4 miles per kWh on a home charger using normal rate electricity would be costing 4p per mile. I can’t get my head around mpg equivalents.</p>

    well with a home charger you should do better than 16p kWH, infact just going to a BP Pulse charger brings it down to 15p and much quicker. You can get off peak charging for 5p kW. I personally think the attraction of EV is the saving, and if you have one, you try and save where you can. Normal driving at 60 and below has been giving me between 4.6 and 4.9 miles kW 4p a mile x 40 miles equates to £1.60 for a car compared to a non EV doing 40mpg @ £1.26 ltr or £5.72 for those 40 miles (14.3 mile)

    You are achieving some good figures @ 5 pence a kWh off peak rate you are looking at just over 1 pence per mile, our PHEV we are looking at 1.7p per mile


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

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